The Kohm Can Stay ' Nerfed ' But It Still Has A Couple Of Problems.

[Tekka_Croe]

There are already a lot of threads up regarding the unexpectedly harsh nerf to the Kohm.  I'm not here to complain, though, and I have a couple of specific issues with the Kohm that I'd like to raise, so I feel that justifies starting a separate thread.

 

The first issue is a longstanding problem with shotguns in Warframe: damage drop-off over distance.  Personally, I don't think this should be a thing on any shotguns, as their spread already limits their effectiveness at range.  The farther away an enemy is, the less likely it is that any one pellet fired will hit them.  Adding a reduction to per-pellet damage at range feels like it's punishing players simply for their choice of weapon class, regardless of their skill.  That's bad game design.

 

The other issue is more specific to the Kohm.  Mechanically, the Kohm needs to have a visual indication of where all its pellets are going.  It's the only shotgun in the game that is both 1) fully automatic, and 2) has a variable spread as a function of fire-rate.  Because the Kohm currently has no visual indication of its pellets' trajectories, the player has no way of knowing exactly how much spread they are experiencing at a given moment.  This means that the player is unable to adjust their firing to balance their spread and fire-rate for maximum effectiveness.

 

Admittedly, I'd prefer it simply be reverted to its pre-U16 state, however: I can live with it being hit-scan; I can live with the higher ammo consumption, I can live with the lower per-pellet damage / higher pellet count trade-off.  But I feel that the above concerns badly hurt the Kohm's utility, and only serve to further disincentivize the use of shotguns in WF.

 

Regards,

A Concerned Tenno

 

(...who really misses his Kohm)

[Brimir]

Amen.

 

Falloff is just so incredibly unnecessary and totally stupid. Shotguns are not melee weapons nor do their pellets have the kinetic energy of a spitwad! And as you say, Spread is already enough of a range penalty on them.

[Edgedemon]

to be fair is hard to find any place where you need to combat at a distance, still i only use kohm as a close quarter status machine with blast perma locking enemies

[Grom-84]

Exactly! you summarized the key moments well with a single post. Also i'd like to add one thing about whiners with theirs "100K OP DAMAGE" - it's all situational! after whole team got buffed with auras, skills, and rare fully upgraded mods some of the lucky guy gets a 100K crit and makes a screenshot of it - oh well is that a big deal? I saw some guys got 500K on some sniper rifles - lets nerf them too its op its overkill!  

[Kihana]

After testing this weapon today post patch, I agree on all counts but one.

 

I'd like it back as a projectile weapon. No if's, no but's, and no hitscan.

[hoeskioeh]

it was pretty unique before, the firing mechanics were distinctive. now it is just another plain gun. well, looks like my drakgoon might get another chance to shine... i really like the projetiles :)

[rapt0rman]

Never touching it again now that it's hitscan, it's what made it fun.

 

No joke, I'm genuinely flat out insulted by this change.

Edited March 20, 2015 by rapt0rman

[[DE]Momaw]

to be fair is hard to find any place where you need to combat at a distance

 

We're not exactly talking about the Kohm as a sniper weapon here.  The damage falloff starts at 20 meters.

[Tekka_Croe]

After testing this weapon today post patch, I agree on all counts but one.

 

I'd like it back as a projectile weapon. No if's, no but's, and no hitscan.

 

it was pretty unique before, the firing mechanics were distinctive. now it is just another plain gun. well, looks like my drakgoon might get another chance to shine... i really like the projetiles :)

 

Never touching it again now that it's hitscan, it's what made it fun.

 

No joke, I'm genuinely flat out insulted by this change.

 

Don't misunderstand the last bit of my OP.  I can live with hitscan, but it's definitely not my preference.  There's something just viscerally satisfying about showering wave after wave of incandescent plasma sparks over my enemies.

 

If I had my way, we'd be back to projectiles, processor load be damned.

[Brimir]

Anybody know of the Kohmak AKA "Kohm jr." has projectiles rather than hitscan?

 

I'd laugh so.freaking.hard if it does!

[MotherofHermes]

my issue is that even with a mod for ammo it chews through it like a goat. without burning creds on ammo restores i can't use this gun. at all.

[rapt0rman]

Anybody know of the Kohmak AKA "Kohm jr." has projectiles rather than hitscan?

 

I'd laugh so.freaking.hard if it does!

All I know is that I fronted all the resources except for the detonites researching it before I realized this happened.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

I miss the projectiles... gun just isn't the same without them, imo.

[(PSN)Zeylon]

my issue is that even with a mod for ammo it chews through it like a goat. without burning creds on ammo restores i can't use this gun. at all.

 

That's my feeling.  Even with shotgun ammo mutation, it blows the entire load of ammo too quickly.  Maybe if you had Nekros and Shotgun Scavenger too?  

 

At the point that I sacrifice a slot to deal with an ammo issue (mutation mod) and it still isn't fixed though - the weapon is more trouble than it's worth.  That's separate from it being just another damn hitscan shotgun again.

[Tekka_Croe]

my issue is that even with a mod for ammo it chews through it like a goat. without burning creds on ammo restores i can't use this gun. at all.

 

That's my feeling.  Even with shotgun ammo mutation, it blows the entire load of ammo too quickly.  Maybe if you had Nekros and Shotgun Scavenger too?  

 

At the point that I sacrifice a slot to deal with an ammo issue (mutation mod) and it still isn't fixed though - the weapon is more trouble than it's worth.  That's separate from it being just another damn hitscan shotgun again.

 

Once I adjusted my firing habits to be a little more conservative, I was able to keep my ammo pool up.  It's the damage fall-off and complete lack of visual impact that's really killing the experience for me.

[(PSN)Zeylon]

Once I adjusted my firing habits to be a little more conservative, I was able to keep my ammo pool up.  It's the damage fall-off and complete lack of visual impact that's really killing the experience for me.

 

It's both for me.  If I wanted a hitscan shotgun, I could've used the Hek or Sobek or what-have-you.  I leveled it specifically because it was a projectile gun that's ammo efficient, and doesn't have a "charge" mechanic like the Drakgoon.

[Grom-84]

Also the weapon itself is unique by it's visuals. Look at those Struns, Boars/Primes they all are the same variation of a single weapon, phage is not a shotgun, redeemer is not a shotgun, tigris looool!!! Hek and Sobek are generic and dull - Conglaturations we have no shotguns in game) 

[fatpig84]

Falloff should have being abolished for all shotguns :l

[Pythadragon]

For those who don't quite understand the problem of not being able to see your spread pattern when using a shotgun:

 

A shotgun that shoots 20+ pellets but only has 3 bullet impacts is similar to the experience of shooting a rocket launcher with an invisible explosion (how big was that explosion?).

 

It looks wrong. It feels wrong. What you expect is not at all what you see.

 

It is a problem that plagues all hitscan shotguns. If the game has no trouble rendering several dozen bolts from a boltor sticking into a wall for several seconds, it should have no trouble showing simple bullet impacts on a wall or visible tracers on projectiles that don't actually exist.

 

That's besides the point though. Kohm is a plasma weapon. It should look, feel, and behave differently than the rest of the hitscan shotguns.

 

Note: Yes 20+ pellets. Everyone uses multishot.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Pythadragon

[Brimir]

If they are concerned about performance, just make a "Show all pellets" toggle in options or something. Jeesh. Don't punish me (and shotguns) because some people play the game on toasters.

[fatpig84]

Yeah back in the day, you can see the good ol AK Bronco filling the screen with lead.

[SmilingMad]

my issue is that even with a mod for ammo it chews through it like a goat. without burning creds on ammo restores i can't use this gun. at all.

You should actually treat it as if it has a much smaller magazine, and reload often to make it pick up the ammo that enemies drop. It also needs some trigger discipline, and in that sense I like it because it adds an additional level of skill, for what it's worth.

[Necroledo]

Personally, I'd like it (and the Kohmak) to at least a have more visible projectiles and muzzle flashes, even if hitscan. They're supposed to be the first Grineer steps into plasma weapons, but they look like regular solid pellet shotguns.

[Siekier]

I don't see a reason why they nerfed it.

 

Stats should be reversed to pre U16 state. Kohm was in perfect spot before it was hit with this nerf bs.

 

Also, they killed the character this gun had. Projectiles made it unique and now they completely messed it up.

They made it boring.

[[DE]Momaw]

It might be cheaper to draw some lines for the projectiles. Rather than full-on physics based projectiles with particles and stuff, do 3D lines along the raytrace of the bullets going out, and then fade them out over the course of some fraction of a second.  So you'd get big spikey blasts that show the size of your cone of spray.