Raid As A Game Killer

[srlhama]

I had the oposite problem in the past when I start, always have to do missions alone, but I found a guy on a defense on earth that was needing help today we play togheter every day.

I personaly cant understand why you are avoiding making friends on the game, because this is what a saw in your comentaries, I know is hard relly on "strange" ppl, but this is the way this game is mean to be played.And you can find a starter on earth/mercury and help on some missions, new players like to make powerfull allies...

And yes raid is pain in the &#!, keep it up lone tenno

[Psychus]

So if they make a raid specific event weapon, you'd rather quit the game and thereby miss out on the other 99% of the content that is perfectly achievable in solo mode, because it irks you that much that you would miss out on a weapon here or there?

 

I don't even understand the logic of people in this forum.

Welcome to warframe forums. IF it isn't; op, soloable, unnerfed, farmable, easy, hard, not-farmable, press-4-to-win, not press-4-to-win, requires teammates, has an op reward, has a balanced reward, is balanced, isn't balanced... Then we don't like it here.

[RossRam]

Welcome to warframe forums. IF it isn't; op, soloable, unnerfed, farmable, easy, hard, not-farmable, press-4-to-win, not press-4-to-win, requires teammates, has an op reward, has a balanced reward, is balanced, isn't balanced... Then we don't like it here.

 

Tradeable. You forgot tradeable.

 

If you only like private parties and solo then nobody will care when you leave.

 

Youre also not even forced to do the dang raid.

 

You know, even if I'll die tomorrow, nobody will care, save but maybe one-two people. I bet nobody else will even notice.

 

And no one forces me to live this life as well. What are you trying to say anyway?

 

However, this does worry me too: "but if there will be some kind of Raid event with unique weapon or something big like that"

 

This is a main idea of my post, actually. Thanks for catching it.

 

I know that feel, Ross.  I tolerate playing with three other Pubbies on occasion, but there's no way I could force myself to play with seven of them.  Just thinking about it makes me retch.

 

Which is fine at the moment, since raid rewards are laughably useless.  But is indeed entirely possible for more useful stuff to be made raid-only.

 

Thanks, Kat. Cool to know you're feeling me.

Edited March 23, 2015 by RossRam

[Cpl_Facehugger]

If you only like private parties and solo then nobody will care when you leave.

 

Except DE when paying customers leave?

 

I mean, if I were to leave over this, I'm pretty sure DE wouldn't be happy at losing one of its whales. :(

[Corvid]

You have my support. Nothing is lost by making content available to anyone willing to put the effort in.

[Krion112]

Literally DE has nothing to lose and everything to gain if they had Raids scale towards the number of players in a party. There's no reason to gate solo players like this. It may not be bad now, but if they start gating Warframes and weapons behind Raids, then there might be a problem.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Krion112

[Sygnano]

The thing is, I just bloody hate have anyone else in my game, especially some random living beings.

 

Anyone feels me?

 

No

[RXZ71]

well op i know how you feel xD i mean i tried getting 5 of my friends to play this game and guess how many stayed? 0. also i enjoy solo. i really dont like anymode with rewards that can only be gotten with a team xD screw team effort~ xD <-- also why i hate most events, lets farm some crappy item that everyone on ur team has to bring and then ull have enough points if they actually bring the darn thing.

 

also im glad they added host migrate, remember the times when you would run something to get a bp part that you need and host would quit and everyone would be sent back to the map even tho that was your 53 run and you would finally get the darn systems if the host didnt quit after drop because it wasnt what the host needed?

Edited March 24, 2015 by RXZ71

[CrazyCatLad]

 

This is a main idea of my post, actually. Thanks for catching it.

 

 

Yeah man. If you want, we can raid together and hate seeing each other.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

JK, I hate people.  /sarcasm

 

 

I'll probably try a raid at some point but as of now, it sounds like too much effort for too little reward.  Plus, artificial difficulty.

[DeejayPwny]

OP, may I ask what you have against meeting new people in a game? Some of my best friends are people I met through my clan on Runescape back in the day, and we still communicate through Teamspeak and exist on here.

Edit: reading more of the thread, what do so many of you truly have against online interactions? In all my experience, no one I've met has held me hostage and kept me playing the game past when I want. We can come and go as we please, playing when we want, only grouping for high level content when we want too. This thread feels extremely cynical, and I haven't the faintest clue why.

Edited March 24, 2015 by DeejayPwny

[DAFIRE]

The dark sector credits were a bug,they were doubled(back to normal) in the hotfix before the last

[Annivenne]

OP, may I ask what you have against meeting new people in a game? Some of my best friends are people I met through my clan on Runescape back in the day, and we still communicate through Teamspeak and exist on here.

Edit: reading more of the thread, what do so many of you truly have against online interactions? In all my experience, no one I've met has held me hostage and kept me playing the game past when I want. We can come and go as we please, playing when we want, only grouping for high level content when we want too. This thread feels extremely cynical, and I haven't the faintest clue why.

 

You can't ask why someone likes it one way, and not another. Well, because they do like it that way, and not another?

 

Different people have different preferences. The broader audience the game satisfies... well, the broader audience the game has.

The game doesn't benefit from being MMO, multiplayer-only, or anything, but sometimes it is important to satisfy a part of the audience. If you can satisfy both - you're in luck.

[Chromosis]

I want to play this game.

 

I don't want to organize a day outing for toddlers, or herd cats, or organize a board meeting, all of which are functionally identical to ~90% of MMO 'raids' and Warframe is no exception to this rule.

 

I don't want any more "internet friends" especially ones focused on a single game.

 

I do resent content being locked behind the frankly insulting notion you need to enjoy risking being the director of an am-dram, musical production of "Dumb and Dumber" if you want to see a new map. There is no content that requires a team unless you artificially make it so, it is a dedicated effort to exclude players from content for no damn reason.

 

But no: "Warframe is more fun when you play with friends, this is a universal truth, you will comply.... Socialize, SOCIALIZE!"

 

Yeah it's nothing do do with the fact that once you get people emotionally committed to one another you can ramp up the guilt to keep them playing way past the point they would have quit if they hadn't been convinced into shared Stockholm syndrome.

 

No, fun must be the reason.... sure

Yea, join a clan that can do it.  It takes 40 minutes tops.

Also, I am glad this is like raids from some other MMOs.  The whole thing reminds me of Serpent Shrine Cavern from WoW, vaguely.  That's good.

Raids have always been more difficult with unique mechanics, but vastly better rewards.  If you played warframe, and at rank 1 with a skana, lato, and mk-1 braton, with no mods, went in and won by shooting a cardboard cut out of hek, you would be storming off to the forums to give everyone a piece of your mind.

[SilentMobius]

Yea, join a clan that can do it.  It takes 40 minutes tops.

 

I refer you to my earlier comment

 

I don't want any more "internet friends" especially ones focused on a single game.

 

I have a clan, with a Dojo and everything researched. It also contain me and me alone.

 

Raids have always been more difficult with unique mechanics, but vastly better rewards.  If you played warframe, and at rank 1 with a skana, lato, and mk-1 braton, with no mods, went in and won by shooting a cardboard cut out of hek, you would be storming off to the forums to give everyone a piece of your mind.

 

Difficult is fine, I don't, however, see any reason why that encounter can't scale down two one player. Everything else does. I don't see how scaling to 1 player somehow relates to the hyperbolic situation you posit.

 

The 'unique' mechanics boils down to 'Tell person X to stand/press Y' there is nothing special or difficult about that, short of the whole herding cats thing.

Edited March 24, 2015 by SilentMobius

[drunkpunk222]

raid sux, its bugged, bunch of mobs unkillable standing everywhere, manics unkillable also when small lag even, no markers on map, no info about  what to do, no teamplay, very bad random players , max rank noobs , who not listen and not understand language, its super boring and taking more then hour with poor players just for first part, then nerds joining and leaving and u need to remake party again, its not fun , brainless running back and forth, mob part is very are easy, hard part is crap teamplay because u cant finish it without and thats why this raid suck, why cant just make challenging mobs , bosses , why u bring this complicated stuff and now need to listen all this rage.

[Chromosis]

I refer you to my earlier comment

 

If you do not want to play with other players to finish the raid, that is your choice.  Not the fault of the devs that you dislike play with others.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Chromosis

[DeejayPwny]

You can't ask why someone likes it one way, and not another. Well, because they do like it that way, and not another?

 

Different people have different preferences. The broader audience the game satisfies... well, the broader audience the game has.

The game doesn't benefit from being MMO, multiplayer-only, or anything, but sometimes it is important to satisfy a part of the audience. If you can satisfy both - you're in luck.

I'm mostly directing my comments at the remarks about how gameplay that supports multiplayer (or encourages it) is a bad thing and that teams only serve to force people into Stockholm Syndrome status. Those are baseless claims from how I see it, and I wanted to know what brought people to that conclusion.

[Kihana]

Difficult is fine, I don't, however, see any reason why that encounter can't scale down to one player. Everything else does.

 

That's because there isn't any reason. It's just multiple people pushing multiple buttons at the same time and enemies that require you have Loki.

[iHzBBz]

dont you have some friend ingame ?

[Annivenne]

I'm mostly directing my comments at the remarks about how gameplay that supports multiplayer (or encourages it) is a bad thing and that teams only serve to force people into Stockholm Syndrome status. Those are baseless claims from how I see it, and I wanted to know what brought people to that conclusion.

 

Gameplay that supports multiplayer is not a bad thing, of course - it's just as good as gameplay that supports singleplayer. Neither audience is inherently better than the other.

 

Gameplay that encourages multiplayer can be a bad thing, depending on intrusiveness of said encouragement. Generally, people who want to play multiplayer will play multiplayer even without additional encouragement. Such encouragements exist solely because multiplayer audience is generally more profitable.

 

But gameplay that forces multiplayer...

That's what I'm talking about, and such gameplay naturally alienates singleplayer audience.

 

I'm sorry, if I misquoted you.

[DeejayPwny]

Gameplay that supports multiplayer is not a bad thing, of course - it's just as good as gameplay that supports singleplayer. Neither audience is inherently better than the other.

 

Gameplay that encourages multiplayer can be a bad thing, depending on intrusiveness of said encouragement. Generally, people who want to play multiplayer will play multiplayer even without additional encouragement. Such encouragements exist solely because multiplayer audience is generally more profitable.

 

But gameplay that forces multiplayer...

That's what I'm talking about, and such gameplay naturally alienates singleplayer audience.

 

I'm sorry, if I misquoted you.

Well certainly. Any game with multiplayer elements will have people wishing for a challenge. Sure. People playing solo have a much harder time on late planets, and yes, t4 gets hard in late waves. But nothing about them is... Hard. Enemies merely require to be cc'd while objectives clearly marked need to be completed. The new raid system, while still in need of refinement, is still a challenge for players because they need to learn what to do without being told anything (at least not ingame).

While yes, it will alienate players who can/wish to only play solo, but it's a needed piece of content for the multiplayer game.

[SilentMobius]

I'm mostly directing my comments at the remarks about how gameplay that supports multiplayer (or encourages it) is a bad thing and that teams only serve to force people into Stockholm Syndrome status. Those are baseless claims from how I see it, and I wanted to know what brought people to that conclusion.

 

Multiplayer gameplay is fine. When you limit content _exclusively_ to more-than-one-player you start to get people optimizing their play time by associating with what they think are like-minded people (Guilds/Clans/etc) when normally they would not. As the content increases the required time commitment and number of people required the Guilds/Clans/etc become more selective about their membership to protect what they perceive as their "investment", expectations of involvement begin to diverge, quid-pro-quo becomes more on an issue. the core group bonds tighter against changes. simply being a "member" becomes a chore but one you feel obligated to fulfill due to the help you have received in the past. People start actively resenting the game, dreading logging on and yet _still do_

 

_This_ is what ends up happening to enough Guilds/Clans/etc to make it not worth the effort, when tickled with exclusive group content. I'm told it happened all the way back to Ultima online but I've only experienced the cycle since the time of EQ, but I've seen the same cycle enough times to know that forced grouping where it was previously not needed is a _bad_ sign.

 

That is where gaming Stockholm syndrome comes in.

Edited March 24, 2015 by SilentMobius

[DeejayPwny]

Multiplayer gameplay is fine. When you limit content _exclusively_ to more-than-one-player you start to get people optimizing their play time by associating with what they think are like-minded people (Guilds/Clans/etc) when normally they would not. As the content increases the required time commitment and number of people required the Guilds/Clans/etc become more selective about their membership to protect what they perceive as their "investment", expectations of involvement begin to diverge, quid-pro-quo becomes more on an issue. the core group bonds tighter against changes. simply being a "member" becomes a chore but one you feel obligated to fulfill due to the help you have received in the past. People start actively resenting the game, dreading logging on and yet _still do_

 

_This_ is what ends up happening to enough Guilds/Clans/etc to make it not worth the effort, when tickled with exclusive group content. I'm told it happened all the way back to Ultima online but I've only experienced the cycle since the time of EQ, but I've seen the same cycle enough times to know that forced grouping where it was previously not needed is a _bad_ sign.

 

That is where gaming Stockholm syndrome comes in.

That's not the games fault on that. The game encourages you to play with people to experience more challenging environments. The PEOPLE require you to do those things. And if you are grouping with those sort of people, forgive my overly harsh attitude here, you need to root out the cancer and get away from them. I've been we my clan.... 6 years roughly. Never once have any of us felt forced into anything. If you don't want to play, don't play. If you want a team, ask. If not now, maybe people will be up for something else on another game, or maybe not.

It's not the game's job to make sure people maintain a good code of conduct, it's the game's job to create the environment In which YOU decide wether or not the people you're with are worth your time. To me, it seems you've had a lot of bad luck with people you play with, but that doesn't give you the ability to declare Raids and like content aren't healthy content. (A good example of unhealthy content is the Completionist cape from Runescape. Holy crap those Reqs lead to extreme elitism)

[(PSN)NewYorkGameflow]

I get where youre coming from, but, you can practically solo 99% of the game. This 1% shouldnt be a big deal, even if its reason enough to go in a random party a few times for the sake of collecting a worthy reward.

At this point theres not too many new rewards that seem necessary, if any at all. If we stopped getting new rewards from this point on, I bet I can still manage to whoop some behind. So even if you choose to skip the raids... how much do you really miss out on?

Raids dont define Warframe, dont let em cramp your style.

On a more positive note: This is a nice opportunity to meet a few good Tenno. Perhaps join a small clan thats active enough to team up on certain missions, yet dont mind a clan member doing their own thing the majority of the time. Team coordination can be fun as hell in WF. And, a final brighter note, you can do the raid with as little as 4 people as well.

Enjoy your game

edit: I read somewhere that people have successfully passed the raid in something like 13 minutes. I also read times ranging below 30 minutes. Small sacrifice of time for the experience and reward.

Edited March 24, 2015 by (PS4)GameflowPRO

[Annivenne]

While yes, it will alienate players who can/wish to only play solo, but it's a needed piece of content for the multiplayer game.

 

It should be purely optional. If you want to satisfy both audiences, you generally don't want to release any content available exclusively to one of them.

It can be a "challenge mode" or something. It can have something what's impossible to not make exclusive (Like puzzles, which can't be done in singleplayer). But optional.

Reward can be big, but not unique (That's the sure way to make content 'mandatory'), "story" elements should be the same (e.g. you could kill Vay Hek in solo-mission), etc.

 

 

That's not the games fault on that. The game encourages you to play with people to experience more challenging environments. The PEOPLE require you to do those things. And if you are grouping with those sort of people, forgive my overly harsh attitude here, you need to root out the cancer and get away from them. I've been we my clan.... 6 years roughly. Never once have any of us felt forced into anything. If you don't want to play, don't play. If you want a team, ask. If not now, maybe people will be up for something else on another game, or maybe not.

It's not the game's job to make sure people maintain a good code of conduct, it's the game's job to create the environment In which YOU decide wether or not the people you're with are worth your time. To me, it seems you've had a lot of bad luck with people you play with, but that doesn't give you the ability to declare Raids and like content aren't healthy content. (A good example of unhealthy content is the Completionist cape from Runescape. Holy crap those Reqs lead to extreme elitism)

 

Yeah, that's exactly the problem.

It is hard to find such people. And some people just don't want to search, they just want to play the game.