Goosmo Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 People eventually find out about those stealth nerfs, and all it leads to is hate, dissapointment, less respect and they will stop trusting you on your choices and the secret ones. I think you should ask the commuinty if they think the nerfs you are planning on are good or bad. Like i said someone eventually finds out about the nerfs, has there ever been a stealth nerf that they haven't found? It's pretty much useless. Sure there might be some ppl saying no to all the nerfs, but ignore those ppl and agree with the ones you think have a good and constructive opinion about the nerfs. Make polls on the forums, be more honest, see what ppl think about it, instead of doing useless stealth nerfs again and again, and make people more dissapointed again and again. The choices you make could be wrong, think about it. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho-Slash Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Well, we don't really know if there's been a stealth nerf that wasn't found XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrian3k Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Well, I wonder what they're trying to achieve with it. If it's intentional, that would mean that they somehow think that their playerbase is stupid enough not to realize in the case of e.g. Excalibur or the Kohm. Transparency on changes is important since you get less rage on the forums when it eventually comes out. Lack of transparency also stirs rumors and speculation about things that players cannot look into in any way at all like drop chances. An item could have a broken drop chance, but no one would ever be able to know outside of DE, so we can't give feedback on it. All we can do is some 100% subjective feeling about them that has little value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letter13 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Stealth Nerfs aren't so much the issue as it is unlisted changes as a whole. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that some of the unlisted changes were changes that weren't meant to go out to the public build. The only time I'm really okay with unlisted changes is if it's something that's supposed to be a surprise (i.e. easter eggs, special "bonus" rewards, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydian Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Like i said someone eventually finds out about the nerfs, has there ever been a stealth nerf that they haven't found? It's pretty much useless. It's also not on purpose. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/422796-psa-radial-javelin-unlisted-changes/?p=4692175#entry4692175 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerenax Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 U16 was released in a hush and they were unsure about which build would go live until the last second. Missing some patch notes is something that can happen purely by accident in a situation like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabpsi Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) yeaa.. I guess some of you should read this thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/422796-psa-radial-javelin-unlisted-changes/?p=4692175#entry4692175 (only if you haven't heard of it before) to quote a small part: Secondly, I hope I can debunk some of the "stealth nerf" threads. Unlisted changes are never intentional, and we appreciate it when players respectfully tell us "hey, you missed something in the notes." We go through hundreds of integrations to make our notes, so sometimes we miss something. You don't have to believe this official statement...all of us can be a little bit paranoid if we want.... but at least we have one^^ And I agree, Transparency is -in some degree- important. edit: ninja'd by Rydian o.o Edited March 22, 2015 by Fabpsi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somedude1000 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that some of the unlisted changes were changes that weren't meant to go out to the public build. It wouldnt be the first time this happened, its the weekend and I dont think theres anyone on to patch this stuff, but some of the thigns that got "stealth nerfed" will probably be fixed on monday Also, your post count, ITS OVER 9000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goosmo Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Well, we don't really know if there's been a stealth nerf that wasn't found XD U16 was released in a hush and they were unsure about which build would go live until the last second. Missing some patch notes is something that can happen purely by accident in a situation like that. You both got a point. i didn't thnk about that. But how can a stealth nerf so big not be listed? (talking about synid gammacor) The ammo consumption nerf was even listed, making it easier to remember about the damage nerf too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndeadGhostWarrior Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 DE and honesty? sorry iv played long enough to doubt every update now. i would like to be wrong but the last update proved it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomder Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 They do this all the time. It's no surprise anymore. EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE IN THE PATCH NOTES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yles9056 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I know some changes are not intended, but DE could at least: A. Make an announcement or patch note telling players that those changes are not intended when players report to them. B. Revert the changes until they are ready instead of doing nothing and keep players whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Couple things I've learned about DE. Transperancy will not happen. From the kerfuffles/uproars with datamining and encryption to stealth nerfs in every single major update and quite a few weekly updates, DE has time and again shown they don't want it. They might toss a bone out now and then (i.e. prime parts list had the locations at every update, then they changed it to "find the parts and we'll add them to the list" iirc, not sure if that's been changed though.) Every update will be so overhyped so much that the update can't possibly live up to it. i.e. the void, archwing, etc. (I haven't tried raids yet, but it seems like more of the same "run through a mission, do a minor objective, run out, work towards a boss fight to farm"), and chock full of bugs, and glitches, along with stealth changes. Some honest mistakes, some probably not so honest. Edited March 22, 2015 by KvotheTheArcane1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoboso Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Well, I wonder what they're trying to achieve with it. If it's intentional, that would mean that they somehow think that their playerbase is stupid enough not to realize in the case of e.g. Excalibur or the Kohm. Transparency on changes is important since you get less rage on the forums when it eventually comes out. Lack of transparency also stirs rumors and speculation about things that players cannot look into in any way at all like drop chances. An item could have a broken drop chance, but no one would ever be able to know outside of DE, so we can't give feedback on it. All we can do is some 100% subjective feeling about them that has little value. Such a question would be inflammatory at worst, and useless due to sampling bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahadaya Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Couple things I've learned about DE. Transperancy will not happen. From the kerfuffles/upraors with datamining and encryption to stealth nerfs, DE has time and again shown they don't want it. They might toss a bone out now and then (i.e. prime parts list had the locations at every update, then they changed it to "find the parts and we'll add them to the list" iirc, not sure if that's been changed though. Every update will be either overhyped that the update can't possibly support it. I.e. the void, archwing, etc. I haven't tried raids yet, but it seems like more of the same "run through a mission, do a minor objective, run out, work towards a boss fight to farm", and chock full of bugs, and glitches, along with stealth changes. Some honest mistakes, some probably not so honest. You should play Raids. They are fun as hell, though the Arcane enhancements suck right now. Not a minor objective, more like a major one. They are much much better than all the other missions we have. Although everything else you said is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrsrkr Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I think that some of the stealth nerfs were just random things they put in at the last second and forgot to mention. But really, someone dropped the ball here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydian Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I know some changes are not intended, but DE could at least: A. Make an announcement or patch note telling players that those changes are not intended when players report to them. B. Revert the changes until they are ready instead of doing nothing and keep players whining. A - They do when they realize it. B - That would require a new update, whereas in the meantime they've generally already started on new builds with upcoming things not in a release-ready format yet because they don't forsee these things happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomrair Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I think you should ask the commuinty if they think the nerfs you are planning on are good or bad. Well, I'm all for developers listening to the community, but this? No. Because if DE did that, no warframe would ever get nerfed, and soon we would have a game full of OP warframes und totally underpowered cannon fodder mobs that are as easy to kill as ducks in a barrel. Or in other words, Warframe would become like COD - a challenge-free casual shooter. No thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witcherlet Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 This is the first time I've met with such a discrecy from the developers. The weekly patches are vague, at least half of them never explain what they mean also this. Judging from people's posts it's not the first time they made big changes and forgot to mention them. Developers should always post all of the changes in the patch notes, even if the changes are something the community will be not happy with, but at least it's out in the open and left for the discussion. Hiding stuff for players is silly and presumes that people are stupid enough to not notice them. Especially big changes like nerf of a skill. Also let's not forget that it would be nice if they've been more precise on the changes except, idk, for example "certain missions will now work like this". We all know that they meant E Gate, but from what I've read the changes affected all missions of the same type. I am just not sure what they want to achieve with this. They want to maintain an image of being community friendly and claim 2k15 to be a year of quality, but so far there've been serious lacks in both of those areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goosmo Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Well, I'm all for developers listening to the community, but this? No. Because if DE did that, no warframe would ever get nerfed, and soon we would have a game full of OP warframes und totally underpowered cannon fodder mobs that are as easy to kill as ducks in a barrel. Or in other words, Warframe would become like COD - a challenge-free casual shooter. No thank you. Which is why DE should only listen to those they think have a good opinion on the nerfs like i stated later on the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydian Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I agree that when they purposely nerf certain tactics or maps and they post about it, they should be upfront and clear so players know what the changes are. But missing changes in patch notes happens all the time, and it's because the process of writing up the notes is not the same progress as actually working on the game. They have a team of people working on it and sometimes changes get added into the dev build but then pulled out when a problem is seen or something like that, so even to the dev team after a week or so sometimes it's unclear if Person X's change is still in there after they talked about maybe wanting to pull it out, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasseopea Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 And what do you expect them to say? "Uhm...we are earning money of you guys, real good money ya know...but hey - we could always earn more we thought, so here is your credit cut, so you get frustrated and spend plat on stuff instead of crafting it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydian Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 And what do you expect them to say? "Uhm...we are earning money of you guys, real good money ya know...but hey - we could always earn more we thought, so here is your credit cut, so you get frustrated and spend plat on stuff instead of crafting it." No, we expect them to communicate what has changed in terms that actually explain the changes. Sometimes we get something like... "Adjusted some missions and changes some things for stuff." When a clearer description would be... "Lowered the base credit reward for T2 Capture missions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Well, I'm all for developers listening to the community, but this? No. Because if DE did that, no warframe would ever get nerfed, and soon we would have a game full of OP warframes und totally underpowered cannon fodder mobs that are as easy to kill as ducks in a barrel. Or in other words, Warframe would become like COD - a challenge-free casual shooter. No thank you. It already is, once you get decent mods. The only challenge is the scaling of enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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