Remove Plat-For-Revive System

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

The platinum-for-revive system serves no purpose to anyone. It doesn't improve our gameplay experience, and I doubt it improves DE's wallet. As a new player, when I found out that I could pay for revives I almost quit on the spot; I've since seen at least one new player I was helping through Vor's Prize do exactly that (despite my promise that it wasn't as bad as he thought).

For new players, it only seems like a warning sign reminiscent of mobile games and the worst kinds of free-to-plays, games Warframe should be held to a higher standard than. And for older players, who have access to tons of different frames, it rarely matters. I think oftentimes older players don't understand why newer ones hate it for this reason, but that doesn't mean many of them don't.

Moreover, it cheapens death. There's less threat of dying with a squad; reviving teammates is much less urgent than in many other games; Warframe has to have one of the highest average group success rates I've seen in a game. In the rare cases it doesn't (Raids, from what I'm hearing), it actually serves to hamper people, not help. Also, denying rewards to dead players seems only frustrating when they aren't AFK, but only wish to not abandon their squad after getting killed.

For those who will say "it's fine as it is", why? What value is gained through its' existance?

So here's my suggestion: if playing solo, players will have two extra lives per mission (or they can have revives for solo be returned daily as it is now). If they expend all these lives the mission fails and the player can choose to restart or quit. If in a group, players will have thirty seconds to a minute after death to revive. If everyone dies the squad fails, and each player can choose whether to restart or quit similar to a defense mission. These systems aren't unique by any means, but they work.

This will have little effect for older players, except giving some kind of punishment for death that's not just a frustrating reward removal. For younger players, however, it will seem much more fair and not give off impressions that undersell Warframe.

Edited March 26, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[Gelkor]

It is a little inane, and really just serves as a trap for newer players to instantly lose their starter plat. 

[Shifted]

How about "fight for your life" mode a'la borderlands of guild wars 2? :)

[rechot]

yea with the new afk system dying sucks a lot. i would love being able to revive even if im out of plat and dont wanna afk

[RawGritz]

The afk system is utter poo. No doubt about that.

 

But paying for revives/extra lives is as old as the arcade machine really. Except here the cost of entry is HDD space and not real money. 

 

Besides you get 4 revives per Warframe. If you burn through  your revives, just switch Warframe. Boom--4 more revives.

Edited March 26, 2015 by RawGritz

[Kelkha]

Cheapens death? How come? I would agree with you, if we were able to purchase revives in-game, but we can't. 

 

I see it as an ultimate emergency button in between games when i require that specific Warframe. In 2 years, i never used it.

 

And i don't think i've ever played with someone that wouldn't revive me, if they were in the vicinity, of course, though when people are too far away, it's inevitable. Everyone does their best to run as fast as possible so that nobody wastes a revive. Sacrificing a team mate in order to maintain mission status is different.

 

I concur on the AFK system ruling people out of mission rewards.

[Lorthos_Mornin]

Is it possible to revive in mission for plat? I can't recall ever having that option, and I have run out of revives in mission fairly recently so I should have seen it.

[ACorpse]

As microtransactions go, they're pretty dang micro. I've only ever paid for a refill of revives once, and that was in my first week. I really don't see the harm in the option being there. Anyone who almost ragequits a game because of the mere *option* of spending a real money currency on something needs to get their priorities straight.

 

Warframe isn't designed as a solo game. Granting additional revives to soloers is counter to the online-squad nature. If you want to solo, then you have to accept that nobody's going to revive you.

[Phatose]

Is it possible to revive in mission for plat? I can't recall ever having that option, and I have run out of revives in mission fairly recently so I should have seen it.

 

No.  That's one of the bizarre parts of the system.  You can't buy extra revives in mission, so you have to fail out or let teammates complete the mission then buy more - but you might as well just change frames for 0 plat instead at that point.

 

I've never been entirely sure what this system was meant to accomplish, exactly. 

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Is it possible to revive in mission for plat? I can't recall ever having that option, and I have run out of revives in mission fairly recently so I should have seen it.

No, it's not. I don't think I said that although if you could tell me where you thought I did, maybe I can explain myself better.

Besides you get 4 revives per Warframe. If you burn through  your revives, just switch Warframe. Boom--4 more revives.

This is mostly for new players.

[direcyphre]

The revives are free and you get 4 more after the next day's reset. We just also have the option to replenish those revives.

 

I mean, we could really go without revives entirely, and that would just mean replaying the mission itself. Same applies if you run out in a given day. The value you gain from having revives at all is that life-saving opportunity to continue your mission. Whether you pay for more or not is entirely up to you.

 

Sorry but, it's fine as it is. It barely even qualifies as a basic F2P aspect, as you can run an unlimited number of missions any day of the week, revives or not.

[nms.]

I'm kind of lost on the point in the OP. It starts criticizing the pay plat for revives, then concludes in one go about losing rewards when afk.

Paying plat or having a limit per mission for revives does not cheapen death. There has to be something that would punish dying. If nothing is going to happen and dying means nothing, I have no reason to revive anyone and have no reason to put an effort in making a tank build or bothering making anything at all or putting effort on my mods. If the death limit is removed, something needs to fill that spot that would make players actually put an effort in not dying during a mission. If there are no repercussions, I will just jump with a crappy build into T4 die a 100 times and still come out with everything.

 

Losing all the rewards when dead, however, shouldn't happen. You should at least get to keep what you made up to the point you died and didn't revive, while not being awarded anything thereafter. The afk system should be removed from dead players if it is affecting them. As a dead player only hurts the team, since it is one man less, unlike an afk botter. Therefore, a distinction does need to be made.

Edited March 26, 2015 by nms64

[RawGritz]

No, it's not. I don't think I said that although if you could tell me where you thought I did, maybe I can explain myself better.

This is mostly for new players.

Right. And for new players the system is very much akin to dropping a quarter for an extra life. Paying for extra lives, is again as old as the arcade machine. 

 

There are other systems in WF that we could easily call "foul".

[http404error]

You don't lose rewards for being dead upon mission success, except for the credits bonus. If you're losing anything else, that's a bug and should be reported.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I'm kind of lost on the point in the OP. It starts criticizing the pay plat for revives, then concludes in one go about losing rewards when afk.

Paying plat or having a limit per mission for revives does not cheapen death. There has to be something that would punish dying. If nothing is going to happen and dying means nothing, I have no reason to revive anyone and have no reason to put an effort in making a tank build or bothering making anything at all or putting effort on my mods. If the death limit is removed, something needs to fill that spot that would make players actually put an effort in not dying during a mission. If there are no repercussions, I will just jump with a crappy build into T4 die a 100 times and still come out with everything.

 

Losing all the rewards when dead, however, shouldn't happen. You should at least get to keep what you made up to the point you died and didn't revive, while not being awarded anything thereafter. The afk system should be removed from dead players if it is affecting them. As a dead player only hurts the team, since it is one man less, unlike an afk botter. Therefore, a distinction does need to be made.

If the squad is wiped, the team fails. That wasn't mentioned in my OP and I will change it to make that clear. Solo, there still is a system, just now it isn't tethered to a daily limit. If you enjoy dying 100 times in T4 and watching everyone do everything, and your team doesn't dump you to get a better player, that's all of your choices. But I fail to see why someone would enjoy watching a game instead of playing in it. Perhaps, however, the player should become revivable after that minute and not instantly be allowed to spawn.

[(XBOX)WarpSonic]

I support this 100% it doesn't add to the game only there wallet

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Cheapens death? How come? I would agree with you, if we were able to purchase revives in-game, but we can't. 

Look at all the hallway heros. I don't have a problem with people who want to do it, but a lot can and do because there's no fear of death. If I'm a mile away from my teammates it's not about "will they revive me if I go down" because I can just pop back up right away.

[Llewellyn_Lionheart]

I think if they made it more abundantly clear that you get 4 per frame per day right from the outset, it would alleviate a lot of this. I am embarrassed to admit at what MR I finally found out you got 4 for each frame, because I was so focused on leveling up each individual frame - I had just never noticed. I don't ever remember seeing that spelled out anywhere, and it isn't often discussed unless someone directly asks about it because everyone just assumes you know.

 

It wouldn't hurt for them to clarify specifically that you get 4 new ones daily and put a timer in, either, but... apparently a lot of people do buy revives.

[Gelkor]

I think if they made it more abundantly clear that you get 4 per frame per day right from the outset, it would alleviate a lot of this. I am embarrassed to admit at what MR I finally found out you got 4 for each frame, because I was so focused on leveling up each individual frame - I had just never noticed. I don't ever remember seeing that spelled out anywhere, and it isn't often discussed unless someone directly asks about it because everyone just assumes you know.

 

It wouldn't hurt for them to clarify specifically that you get 4 new ones daily and put a timer in, either, but... apparently a lot of people do buy revives.

 

I have 19 frames and I only found out about that by reading this thread.

[Llewellyn_Lionheart]

I have 19 frames and I only found out about that by reading this thread.

 

That is exactly my point. Many, many people do not know this. The issue is not just that  plat is spent on revives, but some Tenno actively avoid playing when out of them so as to avoid spending plat. If they knew they had more available... it's not a great feeling when you first find out that you do have them.

 

It's also a reason why you see some people besides collectors keep both the prime and non-prime version of the same frame - 4 extra revives per day.  For most of the prime frames, the differences in the frames are marginal enough it's more than offset by player skill. This seems to be changing with some of the newer ones though... but the option is still there, at least. 

 

That's at least a much better "investment" of plat - frame slots. It's one time, and permanent, and can't be obtained any other way.

[Lightsmith]

I can see why you want it gone, I doubt veterans pay for revives and most players.

But it also makes it useful for allies to revive you. If it didn't burn a revive why would we run way back to res you.

Also you don't have to use a revive, either abandon mission or let allies finish it. I don't believe being dead prevents the mission completion award.

A possible compromise would be: 4 revives PER MISSION, if you need more then you can pay. After each mission revives reset back to 4.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Lightsmith

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I can see why you want it gone, I doubt veterans pay for revives and most players.

But it also makes it useful for allies to revive you. If it didn't burn a revive why would we run way back to res you.

Also you don't have to use a revive, either abandon mission or let allies finish it. I don't believe being dead prevents the mission completion award.

A possible compromise would be: 4 revives PER MISSION, if you need more then you can pay. After each mission revives reset back to 4.

Because the person gets locked out of the game for a certain amount of time, and if you all get killed in that time the game is over.

[Lightsmith]

Because the person gets locked out of the game for a certain amount of time, and if you all get killed in that time the game is over.

Not sure what part you were replying to I made multiple points. But if you have an issue with my 4 revives per mission I think you just want a game reward handed to you. I don't know any mission based games that have unlimited revives. A unranked player could do the top level mission if he just keeps reviving and dealing 1 damage before he dies again.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Lightsmith

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Not sure what part you were replying to I made multiple points. But if you have an issue with my 4 revives per mission I think you just want a game reward handed to you. I don't know any mission based games that have unlimited revives. A unranked player could do the top level mission if he just keeps reviving and dealing 1 damage before he dies again.

4 revives per mission is too many, in my opinion, which is why I have two for solo. But the reason I didn't have permanent death (unless everyone dies) is because in long missions like defense and survival too harsh of a death penalty could mean watching everyone else for 50 minutes or aborting. The reason there's a timer until the person can revive again is so there's actually a possibility the squad can get wiped before anyone can revive.

Your last sentence makes no sense to me because that happens now.

[katoblepas]

i like the 4 revives system. i am not agree thought to the pay for extra revives but that still think it should stay as an option. what i don't like is the 4 revives per day. the only reason they are 4 per day its to force players to take the plat option instead. they should be 4 revives or some less i think PER mission run not per day as it is now.

 

what i don't know its why DE keeps this system in place. as noted before i don't think they get enough plat with this system to keep forcing players to take the plat solution.

 

in my long time experience in this game i have never used the plat option for revive and i am not planning on doing so. no matter how much plat i have. and when i am in a bad luck day and burn through my 4 revives the day my simple choice its to stop playing for the day or play something else less frustrating or greedy.

 

and i dont think DE wants that isn't it........