Lets Nerf The Nerf On Synoid Gammacor

[SquirmyBurrito]

Fix the way ammo drops replenish the player's ammo pool and I don't think SG's consumption would be a problem, along with every other high-consumption weapon for that matter.

 

I rejoiced the day SG got hit with the nerf bat. The thing had literally no downsides besides range limitation. I say it's good where it is.

 

It had several downsides. One being the range limit, another being the fact that it is a continuous fire weapon (crits and status are funky aka useless for the most part because of this).

[(XBOX)JasonsNightmare]

How is running out of ammo in under a minute considered balanced?

 

Edit: If the only way for a weapon to be considered balanced is it not being usable, then the weapon isn't actually balanced. If I have a gun that can oneshot anything in the game, only allowing me to use it occasionally doesn't make it any less gamebreakingly overpowered. Just like having a gun with infinite ammo that can't kill **** isn't balanced. The SG isn't even in a state where you only run out of ammo if you are careless, regular play will have you running out of ammo half way through if the mission requires you to do a lot of killing.

 

"Switch to your primary/melee" -What if I didn't bring one? Does the idea of players being able to play the game with any one weapon only apply to weapons that aren't the SG? I'm pretty sure that was part of DE's intention when they gave us the sword alone concept.

 

 

And instead of nerfing ANY of these, they chose to nerf the one thing that allows players to actually use their weapon reliably for any real length of time? I wouldn't mind a damage nerf, but it isn't necessary. Revert the ammo consumption nerf, and instead nerf its reload speed, magazine size, and give it beam wobble. Those three combined with its limited range (which is a drawback outside the smaller tilesets contrary to popular nerf-caller belief).

 

 

Melee weapons are the focal point of Tenno training. The "The Sword Alone" achievement is a way to emphasize the importance of melee weapons in the game. Not bringing all three weapons is ridiculous, and doing so for the sake of anything other than this achievement means that you need to reevaluate how you play the game. If you are only using one weapon, unless it is melee or the Opticor, you are always going to run out of ammo.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Melee weapons are the focal point of Tenno training. The "The Sword Alone" achievement is a way to emphasize the importance of melee weapons in the game. Not bringing all three weapons is ridiculous, and doing so for the sake of anything other than this achievement means that you need to reevaluate how you play the game. If you are only using one weapon, unless it is melee or the Opticor, you are always going to run out of ammo.

 

There have been special alerts (the name escapes me right now) centered around melee only. Going melee only is perfectly viable for most of the game (especially when paired with certain frames). I have only had issues with running out of ammo while using the SG, a boltor prime/Soma/Grakata/Gorgon/Twin Vipers/Supra while using maxed firerate and purposely spraying to see just how fast they could shoot, the angstrum, the Ogris, the torid pre-patch, the bows when paired with an angstrum, the castanas, the Hikou, pre-nerf/change Kohm, and the three variations on that coat-hanger weapon. My Brakk never runs out of ammo, my marelok never runs out of ammo, most of my weapons never run out of ammo.

 

TL;DR- My experiences with this game do not support your claim.

[(PSN)dday3six]

Why DE didn't simply increase the reload speed, I have no idea...

[Kisha]

Honestly i do belive the ammo consumption is way too much, would even suggest lowering the base dmg and reduce and ammo consumption

[Mesyra]

"MUH SYNOID ISN'T TEH BEST WEPUN NAO, PLZ UNNURF"

 

Stop it.

thats a little over the top, he made a reasonable post.

 

 

to OP:

I think that its a good idea to dial back the nerf just a tad bit. I wont stop maining my vaykor, but it would be nice for people who like the synoid a lot to bring it back up to par with everything else. they really killed the sustained DPS on it.

 

they could always make it's ammo work like the archwing weapon's ammo recharge, albeit faster ammo gain, cause its pretty slow.

 

To the People saying he's whining: He made a constructive post, you guys are the ones whining when someone wants some adjustments made. lay off.

Edited June 3, 2015 by VYR3

[S0V3REiGN]

Is the Synoid Gammacore under powered? Well, how about we compare it to some serious weaponry. Lets compare it to something simple like the Soma Prime, and lets make that a 4 forma build with maxed mods for late game potential:

 

http://goo.gl/849XGf

 

With that build we basically achieve this:

 

1427.462    TOTAL DAMAGE

34259.088    BURST DPS

25190.506    SUSTAINED DPS

 

Now lets take a look at a maxed out build for the Synoid Gammacore that also includes pistol ammo mutation:

 

http://goo.gl/eWLRL8

 

Here are the basic raw number:

 

1481.344     TOTAL DAMAGE

35552.256    BURST DPS

26933.527    SUSTAINED DPS

 

Sorry OP but you are full of it. Not only is this weapon NOT under powered it can still achieve numbers similar or better then one of the elite weapons in the game while both are maxed with room for the pistol ammo mutation "crutch" AND the weapon also has the Entropy effect which the Soma has none. Any talk that this weapon is under powered is a complete joke. I would GLADLY take this weapon to any late game scenario.

Edited June 3, 2015 by S0V3REiGN

[mishmashmarsh]

Nah, it's fine the way it's now. It's balanced now.

 

Ye balanced, just like the Brakk and vaykor marelok oh wait.

[(PSN)avatar-heart]

again???!!! oh god it is tier 3 already

[(PSN)dday3six]

Is the Synoid Gammacore under powered? Well, how about we compare it to some serious weaponry. Lets compare it to something simple like the Soma Prime, and lets make that a 4 forma build with maxed mods for late game potential:

http://goo.gl/849XGf

With that build we basically achieve this:

1427.462 TOTAL DAMAGE

34259.088 BURST DPS

25190.506 SUSTAINED DPS

Now lets take a look at a maxed out build for the Synoid Gammacore that also includes pistol ammo mutation:

http://goo.gl/eWLRL8

Here are the basic raw number:

1481.344 TOTAL DAMAGE

35552.256 BURST DPS

26933.527 SUSTAINED DPS

Sorry OP but you are full of it. Not only is this weapon NOT under powered it can still achieve numbers similar or better then one of the elite weapons in the game while both are maxed with room for the pistol ammo mutation "crutch" AND the weapon also has the Entropy effect which the Soma has none. Any talk that this weapon is under powered is a complete joke. I would GLADLY take this weapon to any late game scenario.

The Soma is a headshot weapon with something like a 4x Multiplier. Heavy Cal for example is only x1.65. Not factoring that in, is leaving a massive amount of DPS on the table. Flat number comparsions using the Somas are tainted, due to the skill factor of their highest potential DPS. Something like the Boltor Prime would have been a much better choice.

Furthermore this sort of comparison also leaves out other variables like elemental combos. The SG's native Magnetic is a DPS negative in many scenarios. So without factoring that in as well, it's not a overall accurate representation. It's simply an 'on paper' example with little in game relevance.

That is not even addressing the main issue in the end anyway, which isn't actually the DPS of the weapon, but rather it's sustainability. Which even with a full Primed Ammo Mutation is poor, due to high ammo consumption.

EDIT: I forget it's not the weapon it's self which has the 4x Headshot Multiplier. It's a critical hit which does it.

Edited June 5, 2015 by (PS4)dday3six

[Ironlixivium]

It's not below par, it's just....in a bad spot...

The dps is fine, but the change was too drastic. I just think it should be the weapon it was before (low rof high damage) but weaker, of course.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/464763-synoid-rebalance-suggestion/

 

What do you think about this thread?

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

Oh no a weapon that can use primed pistol ammo mutation and seeker can still achieve 26k burst and 21k sustained it really needs a buff so it can be better than some prime and boltor again indefinitely.

Op needs to learn to release the trigger every now and then

[Ironlixivium]

Oh no a weapon that can use primed pistol ammo mutation and seeker can still achieve 26k burst and 21k sustained it really needs a buff so it can be better than some prime and boltor again indefinitely.

Op needs to learn to release the trigger every now and then

 

     Actually, the title is spot on imo. I'd like it if DE would nerf the nerf on the nerf synoid gammacor and nerf it's damage in it's place. I'm not one of those "I poured my heart and soul into my synoid" players, though, I decided a while ago that I would potato and forma all my syndicate weapons, and I have, so that wouldn't have changed anything for me. It's just that DE changed the weapon too much. People don't want the same dps, they want the same weapon. To put it simply, DE released a latron prime that was overpowered, and in attempt to nerf it, they turned it into a boltor prime with the same dps as before. Sure, it has the same dps, but it's not their latron prime that they wanted to potato, it's an entirely different weapon that stole their potato.

 

I hope I'm getting my point across.

 

If it doesn't make sense I explained it in that thread I posted.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[WolvenEdge]

The Soma is a headshot weapon with something like a 4x Multiplier. Heavy Cal for example is only x1.65. Not factoring that in, is leaving a massive amount of DPS on the table. Flat number comparsions using the Somas are tainted, due to the skill factor of their highest potential DPS. Something like the Boltor Prime would have been a much better choice.

Furthermore this sort of comparison also leaves out other variables like elemental combos. The SG's native Magnetic is a DPS negative in many scenarios. So without factoring that in as well, it's not a overall accurate representation. It's simply an 'on paper' example with little in game relevance.

That is not even addressing the main issue in the end anyway, which isn't actually the DPS of the weapon, but rather it's sustainability. Which even with a full Primed Ammo Mutation is poor, due to high ammo consumption.

 

Headshot multiplier is the same on every weapon. If you take that into consideration on one weapon, you have to take it into consideration on the other. The Syn Gammacore has pinpoint accuracy, but low range. If you use it as a laser scalpel for headshots, you can boost the DPS even further, and ignore many of the downsides to magnetic damage... and if you add corrosive and/or blast onto it, it ignores that downside anyway.

 

It's the Kamehameha; it melts holes in almost anything very quickly, dilutes once it hits its max range, and takes a lot out of you (ammo supply issues). It's entire purpose now is either a precision tool for aiming at and destroying weak points (at which it is EXCEPTIONAL, none beat it here) and/or a last-ditch method of blowing your opponents away to give you some space, which it also does very well, especially there are few to none main weapons that use pistol ammo, so you usually have a supply when you actually need it.

 

TL;DR

Trying to bring the Syn into mainstream combat is usually about as logical as bringing senbon to a medieval battle, but as a precision weapon or a last-ditch 'GET AWAY!' it works wonders.

[(PSN)dday3six]

Headshot multiplier is the same on every weapon. If you take that into consideration on one weapon, you have to take it into consideration on the other. The Syn Gammacore has pinpoint accuracy, but low range. If you use it as a laser scalpel for headshots, you can boost the DPS even further, and ignore many of the downsides to magnetic damage... and if you add corrosive and/or blast onto it, it ignores that downside anyway.

 

It's the Kamehameha; it melts holes in almost anything very quickly, dilutes once it hits its max range, and takes a lot out of you (ammo supply issues). It's entire purpose now is either a precision tool for aiming at and destroying weak points (at which it is EXCEPTIONAL, none beat it here) and/or a last-ditch method of blowing your opponents away to give you some space, which it also does very well, especially there are few to none main weapons that use pistol ammo, so you usually have a supply when you actually need it.

 

TL;DR

Trying to bring the Syn into mainstream combat is usually about as logical as bringing senbon to a medieval battle, but as a precision weapon or a last-ditch 'GET AWAY!' it works wonders.

Ah, yes I looked into that. It's not the weapon it's self which gives 4x for headshots it's actually the critical hit which does this. I've been away from Warframe for a time, during which specifics have gotten lost. Nevertheless the fact remains, that Soma is a crit weapon, and crit weapons have a large portion of their DPS represented via their headshot Multiplier being doubled by Critical Hits. It is misleading, to say the least, to not to factor that in.

[Urlan]

I agree that the numbers given are a bit misleading as well, for instance, in a real-use scenario you are going to be using the weapon against enemies with armor but hear the damage number are just giving a max damage listing without any of the variables that would allow the damage to happen in the first place. In real usage, the old Synoid was most effective in the hands of warframes that could either close the distance or stop the enemies from shooting you to death - Loki was a good handler for it. The same arguement would come up for the Brakk as well. Even then the high damage let it ignore armor mitigation to an extent for early levels; now that is no longer the case. As basically, a fast spray weapon with short range, the range issue is still real but the requirement to remove the enemies' armor becomes a bigger issue with the lower base damage.

[Ironlixivium]

Headshot multiplier is the same on every weapon. If you take that into consideration on one weapon, you have to take it into consideration on the other. The Syn Gammacore has pinpoint accuracy, but low range. If you use it as a laser scalpel for headshots, you can boost the DPS even further, and ignore many of the downsides to magnetic damage... and if you add corrosive and/or blast onto it, it ignores that downside anyway.

 

It's the Kamehameha; it melts holes in almost anything very quickly, dilutes once it hits its max range, and takes a lot out of you (ammo supply issues). It's entire purpose now is either a precision tool for aiming at and destroying weak points (at which it is EXCEPTIONAL, none beat it here) and/or a last-ditch method of blowing your opponents away to give you some space, which it also does very well, especially there are few to none main weapons that use pistol ammo, so you usually have a supply when you actually need it.

 

TL;DR

Trying to bring the Syn into mainstream combat is usually about as logical as bringing senbon to a medieval battle, but as a precision weapon or a last-ditch 'GET AWAY!' it works wonders.

 

     soma prime's headshots are multiplied by 2 twice, rather than once because of crits

 

 

     The second paragraph is actually explaining the problem; the current synoid isn't the same weapon as the original synoid, it's a different weapon entirely, and that's why I feel it should be changed to be more like this:

 

dmg: 120

 

rof: 3

 

clip: 45 (15 seconds)

 

ammo: 225 (exactly 5 spare clips)

 

Making it's dps 360, but it would be much more like it's original version.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Oh no a weapon that can use primed pistol ammo mutation and seeker can still achieve 26k burst and 21k sustained it really needs a buff so it can be better than some prime and boltor again indefinitely.

Op needs to learn to release the trigger every now and then

 

No, no, no, not "can use" it NEEDS a primed pistol ammo mutation, seeker, and potentially the pistol scavenger aura just to keep up with its ammo eating. My Brakk reaches similiarhigher numbers without needing mutation mods. Attempting to justify a dps-based argument by comparing a secondary weapon to a primary weapon is just plain stupid. Secondary weapons have FAR better mods. 

 

If you guys bothered to actually read what it is we're asking for you'd know that bringing up the SG's dps is completely irrelevant. OP is clearly asking DE to nerf the nerf on the SG, to give it back some of its old ammo economy. If that means it has to have its DPS lowered some, so be it. Honestly, I don't give a ****. I liked the SG for its looks, its ammo economy, and the fact that it gave me energy every so often. First they nerfed the entropy (and blight) proc, so it was less appealing there, then they nerfed its ammo economy along with its DPS. The only thing that is still the same about this weapon is its looks. That's it. Other than that it is now a completely different weapon, like a beam weapon version of the twin vipers.

 

No idea why I even bothered typing this since you guys never manage to see past a weapon's DPS to the heart of the issue we have with it. You see high numbers, see us complaining about a nerf (that barely addressed those numbers), and you jump to conclusions. Once you realize you're wrong (assuming you actually read the replies you get) you attempt to save face by constantly bringing up DPS and attempting to trivialize those who are giving feedback that conflicts with your initial feelings.

Edited June 5, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito