Could We Just Get An Augment Slot? Just One?

[Ronyn]

You all got by fine before Augments. 

If by "got by just fine" you mean commonly complained about the various balance issues and design flaws with various frame powers then sure.

The balance issues we have with the game have in some ways actually been exacerbated by the inclusion of augments in their current form.

 

Stop complaining and just don't use them.

Sure we could just not use them but so many of them either provide a frame or power with the kind of effect it really should have to be viable already. (Like Hydroid who should have the utility of all three of his augments naturally if he hopes to finally have a real role as a support frame in a high level group.) Or take some already useful, perhaps even overpowered frames, and make them even more so.(Like Loki with irradiating disarm.)

 

Try and focus feedback on tweaking them and tweaking abilities so they work better together and not "just add more magic slots", which does nothing but cause other imbalances to other Frames as suddenly we are putting on even MORE mods.

We need more than some tweaks to some of this stuff.

 

This expectation that every update should creep up power to all the Frames is getting ridiculous.

We could kill everything fine before and Augments are meant to tweak abilities to work better in certain situations, with the drawback of losing a mod slot, they are not simply meant to creep up overall power with no negatives, which is what an "augment slot" will do.

What next? Ask for every ability to have their own Augment slot?

Oh dear ...

The concern is not all about "more power" or "power creep". It's about the wider problem with balance and usefulness across the frames.

Very few augments directly relate to more direct damage output or resilience anyway.

Most are for expanding a frames role in combat, expanding potential uses, or granting support to allies. 

[Gwenwed]

Most are for expanding a frames role in combat, expanding potential uses, or granting support to allies. 

 

Which is why I believe a single slot for Augments would bring color and uniqueness, especially between same frames.

[Hypernaut1]

I can slot 2 augments on all of my frames without much issue.

Maybe I'll post a few later on.

I also slot Loot detector and theifs wit when I do Syndicate missions and barely feel a reduction in effectiveness.

You guys just need to be creative and not depend on numbers so much.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[Ronyn]

Which is why I believe a single slot for Augments would bring color and uniqueness, especially between same frames.

The problem is I don't think the frames/powers/augments are in a balanced enough state for that to work out well.

As I explained in my earlier post some frames need more improvements to their capabilities than others.

So where one augment slot may be fine for some frames it will be too little for others and potentially too much for some others.

Honestly I don't think the frames and powers were in a balanced enough state for an augment system even to be introduced.

All of the time designing and creating those augments should have been aimed at the core work of getting the frames in line.

But alas here we are with what we have now....

 

 

I can slot 2 augments on all of my frames without much issue.

Maybe I'll post a few later on.

I also slot Loot detector and theifs wit when I do Syndicate missions and barely feel a reduction in effectiveness.

You guys just need to be creative and not depend on numbers so much.

What level enemies are you fighting? Because it's only at the higher level stuff where "numbers" become so important.

No, not because WE depend on them but because the game scales up to a point where several powers only remain effective if they are modded to be. Syndicate missions are what..level 30 to 40 at most? That's not where the scaling problem arises.

It's when we have to deal with the new end game level of warframe.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Ronyn

[Hypernaut1]

The problem is I don't think the frames/powers/augments are in a balanced enough state for that to work out well.

As I explained in my earlier post some frames need more improvements to their capabilities than others.

So where one augment slot may be fine for some frames it will be too little for others and potentially too much for some others.

Honestly I don't think the frames and powers were in a balanced enough state for an augment system even to be introduced.

All of the time designing and creating those augments should have been aimed at the core work of getting the frames in line.

But alas here we are with what we have now....

 

 

What level enemies are you fighting? Because it's only at the higher level stuff where "numbers" become so important.

No, not because WE depend on them but because the game scales up to a point where several powers only remain effective if they are modded to be. Syndicate missions are what..level 30 to 40 at most? That's not where the scaling problem arises.

It's when we have to deal with the new end game level of warframe.

i routinely do t4s, but i rarely go beyond 40. 

 

I rarely go beyond 40 because i dont see the point. I doubt the game is balanced past 40.  Mag is one frame the benefits greatly from both of her augments. SST makes her tanky and greedy pull helps keep her filled with energy/health/ammo

[Ronyn]

i routinely do t4s, but i rarely go beyond 40.

I rarely go beyond 40 because i dont see the point. I doubt the game is balanced past 40.

That's the thing...

Update 16 gives Raids where the enemies are level 80. That's the new endgame.

Either DE needs to balance frames for level 80 enemies or the raid enemies shouldn't be level 80.

[AlphaHorseman]

Lets just start with one for now shall we? :P

That's pretty limiting and pointless. We have 4 powers, four slots sounds key to diversifying and creating interesting power upgrades/changes.

[LazyKnight]

That's pretty limiting and pointless. We have 4 powers, four slots sounds key to diversifying and creating interesting power upgrades/changes.

They might as well make augments part of the focus system if they're going to consider having one for each power. 

 

There are so many mods and too few slots. With each new mod released it just makes the overpopulation bloated mess worse. Some things should have been made into part of the core game, but they were chopped off as a mod (and not used, looking at stamina mods...).

 

Chroma's augment is a great example of something that should not have been an augment. His augment makes his '1' worth using, yet it was chopped off. He is as slot starved as Ember and the only people that would have room for any augment is someone lacking the mods they need.

 

Does DE really think that any augment is competitive when Warframes needs slots for health/shields and power modifiers?

Edited April 7, 2015 by LazyKnight

[AlphaHorseman]

They might as well make augments part of the focus system if they're going to consider having one for each power. 

 

There are so many mods and too few slots. With each new mod released it just makes the overpopulation bloated mess worse. Some things should have been made into part of the core game, but they were chopped off as a mod (and not used, looking at stamina mods...).

 

Chroma's augment is a great example of something that should not have been an augment. His augment makes his '1' worth using, yet it was chopped off. He is as slot starved as Ember and the only people that would have room for any augment is someone lacking the mods they need.

 

Does DE really think that any augment is competitive when Warframes needs slots for health/shields and power modifiers?

Apparently they're going to be releasing multiple augment mods per power, and having only 8 slots to deal with that will be extremely limiting.

[Thaumatos]

You all got by fine before Augments. Stop complaining and just don't use them.

So your logic behind poorly implemented content is "don't use it" ...?

 

Wow...

 

You're on the feedback forums...why again?  To argue instead of provide feedback?  Isn't that the definition of a troll?

[Thaumatos]

That's the thing...

Update 16 gives Raids where the enemies are level 80. That's the new endgame.

Either DE needs to balance frames for level 80 enemies or the raid enemies shouldn't be level 80.

Well level 80 content is the only way they can provide even a remote challenge to 8 'p42w' players.

 

They're running into the problem that every horde game faces.  Eventually the players become gods and you have to throw incredibly unbalanced piles of destruction their way in order to hinder them from blowing through every last bit of content.  Think Diablo 2 or 3 with a much simpler (almost non-existent) progression system.

 

DE needs to tone down the horde, ratchet up the progression, and re-evaluate the base stats of the game.  Large piles of faction fodder to fight every once in a while is extremely fun, but you can't just make the "zombie horde" stronger and expect players to get more out of it.  It's still the same thing only with more hp and less of a chance you survive.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Thaumatos

[Ronyn]

Well level 80 content is the only way they can provide even a remote challenge to 8 'p42w' players.

 

They're running into the problem that every horde game faces.  Eventually the players become gods and you have to throw incredibly unbalanced piles of destruction their way in order to hinder them from blowing through every last bit of content.  Think Diablo 2 or 3 with a much simpler (almost non-existent) progression system.

 

DE needs to tone down the horde, ratchet up the progression, and re-evaluate the base stats of the game.  Large piles of faction fodder to fight every once in a while is extremely fun, but you can't just make the "zombie horde" stronger and expect players to get more out of it.  It's still the same thing only with more hp and less of a chance you survive.

Yeah....

You are right in that the P42W style of game-play is an issue. Certainly they need to get that in check.

And we can expect some amount of increased numbers on enemy damage and resilience but there is a point where it becomes absurd.

Sadly the form of challenge granted from excessive enemy scaling isn't very satisfying to play against and quickly wears out its welcome.

A stray bullet killing the player isn't fun anymore than unloading multiple clips into enemies is fun. Then we have some powers that scale better than others causing odd imbalances and certain combat roles falling away almost entirely...it's just bad news.

There are other approach's to increasing challenge that include but aren't limited to-

1: Altering enemy group configurations so that more of the tougher enemies spawn per group.

(When groups are full of heavy gunners, napalms and eximus units things get tougher)

2: Missions with more difficult objectives or multiple objectives that need to be completed simultaneously. 

(for example: Survival missions where canisters can be destroyed by enemies so the players!)

3: More unique enemy types that create the need for altered strategies. 

(Though this is tricky to tune and many people complain every time DE tries this)

Etc....

[Malitias]

What a ridiculous argument.

 

We all got by fine before aura and stance slots, let's just get rid of those too.

Exactly this!

 

Adding more customization should be major priority here.

Balancing the game around that then is no issue.

Games should constantly be balanced throughout the development of the game.

As I've said before in other threads, you mustn't let those things stand in the way of creating a more diverse/fun gameplay or the game won't ever evolve.

[Malitias]

3: More unique enemy types that create the need for altered strategies. 

(Though this is tricky to tune and many people complain every time DE tries this)

Etc....

I just dislike the "BAM, now you got 0 energy" kind of enemies and the way too obvious "now you can shoot me.. now you can't! *giggle*" kind.

It doesn't involve strategy in terms of how you can avoid bad things to happen to you.

Strategy would be targeted CCs, sneaking up for a stealth kill or outmanouvering an enemy so you can aim at his weak spot.

But with the current mass CC abilities real strategy is never going to be a thing in Warframe.

 

Sorry for getting off-topic.

 

 

Augment slots have to become a thing if DE wants us to use them.

[AdunSaveMe]

Well level 80 content is the only way they can provide even a remote challenge to 8 'p42w' players.

 

They're running into the problem that every horde game faces.  Eventually the players become gods and you have to throw incredibly unbalanced piles of destruction their way in order to hinder them from blowing through every last bit of content.  Think Diablo 2 or 3 with a much simpler (almost non-existent) progression system.

 

DE needs to tone down the horde, ratchet up the progression, and re-evaluate the base stats of the game.  Large piles of faction fodder to fight every once in a while is extremely fun, but you can't just make the "zombie horde" stronger and expect players to get more out of it.  It's still the same thing only with more hp and less of a chance you survive.

We just need one big rebalance update, along with less infinite scaling and more physical challenge.

 

Right now the game is mostly a gear check. It doesn't need to be.

 

Augment slots have to become a thing if DE wants us to use them.

Indeed. Especially if they keep adding augments that stick a salty bandaid on abilities that need straight-up buffs.

 

Right now, standing isn't the only thing putting the worth of these mods in question; it's whether or not you want to or actually can free up a slot in order to use it. A lot of augments just aren't worth it. Others, like Ember's new WoF augment, actually can't be used without gimping the frame, because she pretty much NEEDS balanced stats.

 

That argument about it being overpowered could be applied to aura and stance slots, too. Auras and stances are not normal mods. They are there to compliment a frame or weapon and serve a unique purpose. Augments are not, or should not be, any different.

Edited April 8, 2015 by AdunSaveMe

[(PSN)MrNishi]

You all got by fine before Augments. Stop complaining and just don't use them.

 

Try and focus feedback on tweaking them and tweaking abilities so they work better together and not "just add more magic slots", which does nothing but cause other imbalances to other Frames as suddenly we are putting on even MORE mods.

 

This expectation that every update should creep up power to all the Frames is getting ridiculous.

 

We could kill everything fine before and Augments are meant to tweak abilities to work better in certain situations, with the drawback of losing a mod slot, they are not simply meant to creep up overall power with no negatives, which is what an "augment slot" will do.

 

What next? Ask for every ability to have their own Augment slot?

 

 

 

Oh dear ...

I'm all for removing Augementa entirely if it will give me back my 2 mod slots.... sometimes I don't need an ability (or maybe just 1)on Valkyr

Ripline was nice before Directional Air melee and upcoming Parkour/Movement 2.0

WarCry I only really use on Defensive/Mobile Defense/Excavation

Paralysis- I use this often for easy health refill with Life-strike Finishers or to break capsules in sabotage missions

Hysteria- no need for this ability (Like the looks, but hate how the control feels and her re-equipping her claws after action..)

So yeah 10 slots with none of them being used for abilities...I was that guy...8 formas to get there....then they removed 2 of my mods ugh I only had 1 slot not polarized...

[(PSN)Pharen]

 

tadaaaaa

Should be one either side of the Aura mod.

[AdunSaveMe]

Should be one either side of the Aura mod.

quit stifling my creativity, maaaaaaan

[(PSN)Pharen]

quit stifling my creativity, maaaaaaan

back to work you <.<

[Phoenix86]

Augments should be implanted in the skill's panel, they shouldnt even be in the mod's one.

 

But Steve already said "it's not gonna happen" back in the days (around 3-4 months ago, during a DevStream)

 

And this is sad.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Phoenix86

[LazyKnight]

Augments should be implanted in the skill's panel, they shouldn't even be in the mod's one.

 

But Steve already said "it's not gonna happen" back in the days (around 3-4 months ago, during a DevStream)

 

And this is sad.

If it was that long ago, that opinion could have changed over time due to the amount of feedback about augments. Also, Scott and Steve have different ideas of how the game should function; and, a common thing they say is their arguing about 'x' (such as damage scaling of damage powers).

 

I have a suspicion that the mod system will force them to do something about the bloat, sooner or later. Some people might think there is diversity by having so many mods, but there are too for the given slots. There are mods that have no use, and would fit better as passive to an individual Warframe or as general focus system pick your passive.

 

Channeling mods and stamina mods are in the same boat as the augments, and only people that can fit the have done the same thing that DE removed the Skill mod cards to fix. 

Edited April 8, 2015 by LazyKnight