Krion112 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I'd be extremely disappointed for the Sentients to turn out to be just machines, especially if they were built by the Orokin. It'd literally be both the Geth and Reapers from Mass Effect fused into one role, and their roles were already pretty commonplace in the sci-fi genre. Truly, I hope this hinting at the Sentients being machines is a ruse for something more interesting or exotic. This Grineer lore though is very interesting. There's a lot of little things hinted in there; Grineer like to manufacture impact weapons, and these mining machines were based upon hard hitting impacts. The Orokin apparently use the Grineer as laborers before modifying them for war, and without the Orokin to regulate them, they grew out of control and began their own empire. Some interesting stuff. Can't wait for some Corpus and Infestation lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WiiConquered Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Thank you, this is extremely interesting stuff. But now, this just begs the question what are the Sentient doing citing ancient Mesoamerican creation myth? It could be a foreshadowing for how they came to be, or what their goals or or their philosophies, I'll need to analyze this more. Based on a wikipedia search my prior knowledge of the Mayan Origin story, the gods deemed the first men a failure and wiped them out. I think that could be a hint as to why the Sentients try to destroy us--they believe the Orokin are flawed and something better should be created. Maybe they're trying to kill us because they know the Lotus wants us to exterminate them and the Corpus? Or maybe because they think they have enough Grineer clones to deal with the Sentients themselves. They might have even approved Vay Hek's Fomorians for the purpose of being an anti-Sentient tool (or something). I think we (or the Lotus) saw how they were used and set about freeing them, but it was a time and place where people wanted protection more than freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Woah. I'm curious, though. I wonder at what point the Orokin made the Sentients, if they did make them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)fizzer94 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) The light could be Tenno, it supports the tenno are energy theoryThe Tenno are quite clearly not energy.So many things debunk that theory. The most obvious one being that we bleed when we take slash damage. Or that we take Viral damage, a distinctly organic thing. Or that we need LIFE SUPPORT to live. How about how Mesa can succumb to the technocyte virus, something a being of pure energy would succumb to? Literally the only thing that caused this "Tenno are Energy" myth is people misunderstanding Vor in the opening quest. Its not even real evidence, especially considering he just a little bit before stated stated that he had to rip the Warframes off of their bodies... And that the Ascaris Negator is attached to our spinal cords... The Tenno are organic. Edited April 5, 2015 by (PS4)fizzer94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krion112 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 -snip- I've wondered if we're supposed to take the bodies from metal wombs as them tearing our Warframes from cryopods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 The Tenno are quite clearly not energy. So many things debunk that theory. The most obvious one being that we bleed when we take slash damage. Or that we take Viral damage, a distinctly organic thing. Or that we need LIFE SUPPORT to live. How about how Mesa can succumb to the technocyte virus, something a being of pure energy would succumb to? Literally the only thing that caused this "Tenno are Energy" myth is people misunderstanding Vor in the opening quest. Its not even real evidence, especially considering he just a little bit before stated stated that he had to rip the Warframes off of their bodies... And that the Ascaris Negator is attached to our spinal cords... The Tenno are organic. It's the Warframe that bleed, gets sick, needs air. Remember, we put mods INTO the warframe. Each warframe has it's own configuration of mods. We put life, armor, speed into the frame, we dont put those thing into us. The frames a part biological. And Table was being piloted by an infested. Alad found a way to pilot frames, and some one else did with that Chroma frame we were hunting. No one is misunderstand anything, he is offering an explanation on how frames work. And it is real evidence since he is tasked to find out about all this stuff. Plus he is not even talking about anything tenno he is explaining how the warframes work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartianJellyfish Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Thank you, this is extremely interesting stuff. But now, this just begs the question what are the Sentient doing citing ancient Mesoamerican creation myth? It could be a foreshadowing for how they came to be, or what their goals or or their philosophies, I'll need to analyze this more. What if these "Sentients" witnessed the creation and are protecting it's secrets/stories/I don't even. Apologies if I don't make much sense, my mind has been seriously blown and I'm still trying to find and put back together its pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodemos Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) What if these "Sentients" witnessed the creation and are protecting it's secrets/stories/I don't even. Apologies if I don't make much sense, my mind has been seriously blown and I'm still trying to find and put back together its pieces. I'm just as baffled as you are, so much so as to bookmark all these Popol Vuh documents and start meticulously reading through the entire thing to see what I can find. Maybe I'll formulate a thread at some point. But before that... . . . - - - . . . *activates lore signal, assistance required* Edited April 5, 2015 by NikodemosTheMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirDraco Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Wait, every time we complete an entry we get a chunk of lore? I need to start looking for targets now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunDownGrace Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 so the lancers were shock troops you know what this means right? the orokin soldier in mag prime`s codex was likely a grineer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 so the lancers were shock troops you know what this means right? the orokin soldier in mag prime`s codex was likely a grineer No, that soldier was too smart to be a Grineer. He wasn't simple-minded like the Grineer were. Unless you're saying that the Orokin made smart Grineer, and then, after the Collapse, the Grineer went dumb again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) It's the Warframe that bleed, gets sick, needs air. Remember, we put mods INTO the warframe. Each warframe has it's own configuration of mods. We put life, armor, speed into the frame, we dont put those thing into us. The frames a part biological. And Table was being piloted by an infested. Alad found a way to pilot frames, and some one else did with that Chroma frame we were hunting. No one is misunderstand anything, he is offering an explanation on how frames work. And it is real evidence since he is tasked to find out about all this stuff. Plus he is not even talking about anything tenno he is explaining how the warframes work. No, it's the Tenno that bleeds, gets sick, needs air. Those mods are what allow the Warframes to give health to the Tenno. It's like Crysis' nanosuit. The Warframes are suits. It is technology within those suits that gives us certain boosts. It HAS been clear that the Tenno are physical. Edited April 5, 2015 by AntoineFlemming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychus Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 The Tenno are quite clearly not energy. So many things debunk that theory. The most obvious one being that we bleed when we take slash damage. Or that we take Viral damage, a distinctly organic thing. Or that we need LIFE SUPPORT to live. How about how Mesa can succumb to the technocyte virus, something a being of pure energy would succumb to? Literally the only thing that caused this "Tenno are Energy" myth is people misunderstanding Vor in the opening quest. Its not even real evidence, especially considering he just a little bit before stated stated that he had to rip the Warframes off of their bodies... And that the Ascaris Negator is attached to our spinal cords... The Tenno are organic. Or they're both organic and energy. It is entirely possible that tenno are energy inhabiting a living creature, the warframe. It would explain why when you select a different warframe, you are the same tenno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunDownGrace Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 No, that soldier was too smart to be a Grineer. He wasn't simple-minded like the Grineer were. Unless you're saying that the Orokin made smart Grineer, and then, after the Collapse, the Grineer went dumb again. actually i am,downfalling from orokin is a trend it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Actually it was the rail at outer terminus was destroyed in a conflict with another *sentient* species. Could ya walk me through your thought process on that? The Zero Tech are more likely Corpus or what would become regular humans and Corpus actually. =\ If this were the case. The Tenno probably killed the Orokins to free everyone. Grineer, Corpus, and Humans and then they went to sleep for millenniums and a lot could of changed and happened between then and now. What on earth makes you say that? There's no reason for it, especially given how Corpus ARE the tech gys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 *activates lore signal, assistance required* I'm trying, man. This story got dropped right when I was needing to go to bed and it's been a hell of a day since I got up. There is A LOT to sort through and A LOT I've still got to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooke90909 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 No, that soldier was too smart to be a Grineer. He wasn't simple-minded like the Grineer were. Unless you're saying that the Orokin made smart Grineer, and then, after the Collapse, the Grineer went dumb again. Or it could have been one of the "Original" clones. By that, I mean that it may have been either the first Gen of Cloning, or one of the things that was cloned. But my bet is on the First/Second Gen clone, because they would slowly lose intelligence as time went on, and then just fall apart. Wait, every time we complete an entry we get a chunk of lore? I need to start looking for targets now! We just need to unlock more of these entries! Then we will find out more! Quick! Someone create a mega-thread with just each entry of this Codex in a bunch of Spoilers! As time goes on, we will get more and more info to post into the thread! Heck, this could be that thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 But, you know, this who "the Grineer were created by the Orokin" thing sort of harkens back to the old theory of the Stalker attacking us because we've been destroying the Orokin's creation - the Grineer and Corpus. Could be that he still views the Grineer as the property of his deceased Orokin masters, and the Corpus use of their Tech (which will need explanation as to why he doesn't see that as heretical) makes them similar citizens - though it could be the Corpus reverence for Orokin tech he sees a sense of kinship in with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) No, that soldier was too smart to be a Grineer. He wasn't simple-minded like the Grineer were. Unless you're saying that the Orokin made smart Grineer, and then, after the Collapse, the Grineer went dumb again. Neither are the Grineer soldiers of today, I'm not at all sure where you're pulling "they're dumb now" from. Vay Hek's made some dodgey tactical decisions, but compare the way in which they speak (Vor especially) to the thought processes of the Lancer Codex Grineer. They are MUCH more intelligent. Could be that the Orokin upped their intelligence to make them better soldiers - soldier need to be able to think and plan more than a manual worker does. Edited April 5, 2015 by Morec0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 actually i am,downfalling from orokin is a trend it seems :) Neither are the Grineer soldiers of today, I'm not at all sure where you're pulling "they're dumb now" from. Vay Hek's made some dodgey tactical decisions, but compare the way in which they speak (Vor especially) to the thought processes of the Lancer Codex Grineer. They are MUCH more intelligent. Could be that the Orokin upped their intelligence to make them better soldiers - soldier need to be able to think and plan more than a manual worker does. Not really talking about the bosses, but the regular soldiers. From that entry for that Grineer, it's very similar to the original, English-speaking Grineer that we had in the game. I've seen nothing to suggest that the regular Grineer soldiers (not bosses) are any smarter than they were back when DE still had them speaking English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Not really talking about the bosses, but the regular soldiers. From that entry for that Grineer, it's very similar to the original, English-speaking Grineer that we had in the game. I've seen nothing to suggest that the regular Grineer soldiers (not bosses) are any smarter than they were back when DE still had them speaking English. And even back then they still seemed smarter. They seemed like your average-intelligence soldiers, and translating what they say now still gives that impression, where the Grineer portrayed in this story seems to be Forest-Gump levels of intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 And even back then they still seemed smarter. They seemed like your average-intelligence soldiers, and translating what they say now still gives that impression, where the Grineer portrayed in this story seems to be Forest-Gump levels of intelligence. Maybe so. I didn't get that impression from them back then. I absolutely got the impression that they were, even then, Forrest-Gump level intelligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Maybe so. I didn't get that impression from them back then. I absolutely got the impression that they were, even then, Forrest-Gump level intelligent. They were no Shakespeare, but I never thought of them as "mentally handicapped" as this worker seems to be. Heck, listen to how the Grineer talk in the Liset radio! MUCH clear and more precise intelligence than the worker in this entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontrollo Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 ... They mass produce clones and put them to work on mines, searching for this supposed place - or places. Grineer Lancer template #1 luckily stumbles upon it on Outer Terminus. Their working machines start poking too deep and wake up someone. Someone who doesn't want them digging that place, and seeing what it hides. Judging from the broken speech pattern we have seen before, it's a Sentient (and I'm tempted to think it doesn't speak by regular human ways, and its language isn't English, which I'm assuming is the Orokin's). If I had to bet, I'd say the Sentients are guardians of this secret place, and they want it to remain untouched, undiscovered. The Orokin are determined to change this, though, so they grab Grineer Lancer template #1 and start cloning him to produce soldiers instead of just workers, since he showed enough strength of mind not only to survive until they found him, but to also injure whatever attacked him. ... I've read the last part of the entry again and I'm retracting my previous statement that the Grineer served as both workers and army before this incident. Now I think this guy was indeed the prototype for the Grineer armed forces. The statement "I mean, would you trust a Grineer soldier?" is simply conjecture; were they really going to use these dummies now and turn them into their troopers? This and its response make it quite clear that the Orokin had already encountered the Sentients before this incident, but not yet found a way to actually combat them. So I agree with you that this guy was the Grineer Lancer template #1, but I'm not sure anymore if they had been digging there for secrets and artifacts. The whole thing could've been a Sentient raid on the mining colony, and this guy was the first one to actually put a dent into one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)fizzer94 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 They were no Shakespeare, but I never thought of them as "mentally handicapped" as this worker seems to be. Heck, listen to how the Grineer talk in the Liset radio! MUCH clear and more precise intelligence than the worker in this entry.The Grineer we hear on the radio seems to be some sort of ship inspector. He might be unusually intelligent, and there for specially suited for his job.Most of the other Grineer we see are toddler level intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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