Ember To Replace Volt As Starter Frame Option?

[KidMemphis]

Only if you consider the very high tier void missions. Most of the game is not that.

 

Ember is actually one of my more used frames due to the ease that it can clear lower level missions with. E.g. it is the only frame that I find easy to use to solo those lower-level interception missions, as well as clearing those 30-40 level non void missions (including nightmare)

 

Just because it is not as suitable as others for dealing with high tier void tower does not mean that it is not useful.

 

In this aspect, Ember is a little "unbalanced", which I feel makes her a less suitable choice for starter. I still support Volt as a starter (not because he is better/worse, but because he is more balanced and can be used in all missions including void)

As a DPS frame, her DPS model doesn't scale into later content...just imagine when the new faction is released how useless she'll be then...

[arche]

1) I don't PvP

2) This one comment = no one is going to read the rest of your reply >.>

I read the rest of his comments. Also I would like to point out a fact. That poll had 303 votes. 68 voted that Ember is useless. 68players/All players in warframe doesn't account to it being a solid evidence. 

 

Edited April 6, 2015 by arche

[arche]

As a DPS frame, her DPS model doesn't scale into later content...just imagine when the new faction is released how useless she'll be then...

Uses ember on T4 solo runs. OPPS.

[ReizoRyuu]

She scales into Draco just fine, if you can survive Draco (without gimmicks) you can survive anything just fine.

[Kihana]

2) This one comment = no one is going to read the rest of your reply >.>

 

Not likely. PVP is the only place where Volt appears to be OP (read: unbalanced).

 

Putting Ember in his place would be counter productive to what is needed for new players. Excal, Volt, Frosty. Best possible set of starter frames.

 

EDIT: The only reason I can see that they won't do this is because it would leave the starter frames as all male.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Kihana

[ShenanAgram]

What I mean by saying Volt is OP is that he's OP for a beginner frame. According to a recent poll I ran, he's in the Top 5 most useful in the game:

http://strawpoll.me/4036256/r

Just wanna point out that "frame I'm happy I'm stuck with" doesn't mean "most useful".

[LX7_LORDXEN]

Loki was taken out as a starter 'cause he was, well, terrible as a starter. No direct damage and extremely squishy. That doesn't do well for newer players. 

Basically toughened up those who chose him back then, well at least thats what happened with me.

[Lightsmith]

What I mean by saying Volt is OP is that he's OP for a beginner frame. According to a recent poll I ran, he's in the Top 5 most useful in the game:

http://strawpoll.me/4036256/r

...meaning I don't feel he should be handed out as a starter frame...even though he's basically handed out as clan tech anyway

Based on your poll, which isn't that accurate. Excalibur is pretty high too. Also from the same poll, Ember is the worst frame. That is partially why Loki was removed, it gives a bad experience to new players, although Loki is great later on, starting it could frustrate people who are more fickle about their opinion of the game. Not to mention the total variance in your list is only like 5%. its a pretty good balance.

 

Personally I think it is currently fine.

Excal, Melee

Mag - Support

Volt - Caster

 

seems like a good spread. Only one I could think of would be Ash since he is stealth (and Loki as some mentioned is to rough for new players.

 

One issue is that Volt is Clan only now. So if you look at which one to get based on how hard it would be to obtain Volt is out of place since everything else is soloable. Although Excal is pretty late game to farm.

[izzatuw]

No, Ember's the least used because she's okay at best. Volt's just fine, also Ember is VERY strict to build so it'll be very difficult for newbies to mod her.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

 

 

Makes perfect sense as Ember is arguably the least useful Warframe in the game

 

Console kid called me a casual...cute :)

Oh, so because I play console that makes a sub-class of player? 

[izzatuw]

Oh, so because I play console that makes a sub-class of player?

OF COURSE IT DOES, MWAHAHAHA,

J/k, random internet trolls like to feel superior to make themselves feel better.

[Vargras]

...that and he's OP >.>

No, it was seriously because he had no damaging abilities and he's squishy.

 

The fact that you think he's OP is an opinion. It had nothing to do with why he's no longer a starter. Likewise, swapping a starter frame because you think one is OP is a really stupid reason, especially because you said Ember is the least useful frame.

 

Why in the world did you even think this was a good idea?

[izzatuw]

No, it was seriously because he had no damaging abilities and he's squishy.

 

The fact that you think he's OP is an opinion. It had nothing to do with why he's no longer a starter. Likewise, swapping a starter frame because you think one is OP is a really stupid reason, especially because you said Ember is the least useful frame.

 

Why in the world did you even think this was a good idea?

So that Ember would be like Google+, nobody really loves her soo.... We'll make them love you!!

[Vargras]

So that Ember would be like Google+, nobody really loves her soo.... We'll make them love you!!

You don't make people love things by giving them no other options.

 

"Ember should be a starter because she's bad" is a laughably terrible idea.

[izzatuw]

You don't make people love things by giving them no other options.

 

"Ember should be a starter because she's bad" is a laughably terrible idea.

But it's the only way for true enlightment, it's the only way possible. Buffing would require too much resources and effort, this is the easiest and most efficient way.

[GhostMelody]

How on earth is volt OP in any sense?

He's one of the most balanced frame in game.

Loki was not a starter frame, Loki is very squish is very reliant on mods most new players won't have to be effective. Ember is a poor choice at starter frame as it's doesn't bring anything that isn't covered by the other 2. Excalibur is balanced, yet melee oriented frame, mag is the caster, while volt is the run and gunner.

Volt---->ability 3; protection from 75% of the star chart----OP

Lol and what about why they removed mag I loved her, that bullet attractor an pull was too strong at earlier levels, agreed?

And FYI there was a point when the starters were: Excalibur, Loki, and Mag

Just know that plz?

Edited April 6, 2015 by GhostMelody

[Buzkyl]

Volt---->ability 3; protection from 75% of the star chart----OP

Lol and what about why they removed mag I loved her, that bullet attractor an pull was too strong at earlier levels, agreed?

And FYI there was a point when the starters were: Excalibur, Loki, and Mag

Just know that plz?

 

 

Electric shield, OP? You cannot be serious.

 

 

It's 1 direction, cannot move and can only stop from range attackers, an enemy can easily just run through it and kill you. It also failes to protect you from explosions.

 

Mag bulletor attractor is  a 75 energy skill to have 1 specific enemy dead, that isn't OP in any sense, considering it's her only skill affected by duration so as Plays modded for mag BA becoems more and more less of a focus. If you're going to call it OP give reasons.

 

 

Pull went through many buffs and nerfs to be where it is just because it was "OP" in the past does not  hold any value now.Unless you're thinking pull is overpowered at early levels.

 

I don't need your history lesson as i already knew that, i was explaining why Loki was not a good choice  for a starter frame.

[Davoodoo]

...that and he's OP >.>

Hes op once you can spam his abilities all day long, aka 30lvl and efficiency mods.

 

For new players he can use his invisibility maybe 5 times during mission and he can cast his disarm maybe twice.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

So that Ember would be like Google+, nobody really loves her soo.... We'll make them love you!!

I love my Ember (Prime)...

[smithf]

As a DPS frame, her DPS model doesn't scale into later content...just imagine when the new faction is released how useless she'll be then...

I don't consider Ember a DPS frame, more like an mobile AOE frame (which makes her unique until Chroma, but Chroma's range is too small). I find that I use her most in missions to kill enemies out of sight without having to aim or time (like instant AOE abilities that other frames have). Also, while other frames use their AOE ult to damage, Ember could have her Ult on AND use weapons at the same time (my current favorite is a sinister reach Amprex).

 

Warframe really isn't a game where we only play high tier void missions after some time. We keep having to go back to lower level alerts/invasions/farms etc. (e.g. I often solo interception using Ember for T4 keys). So while I totally agree that she will not be very effective at very high endless void missions, I find she sufficient to deal with any other missions (even lvl30-40+ nightmare missions) in a ... well.. lazier manner.

[sickness24]

http://strawpoll.me/4034278/r

Scoreboard!   :O

Argumentative fallacy, 

Argumentum ad populum

just because many people are of the OPINION that it is so it isnt

[Lightsmith]

I don't consider Ember a DPS frame, more like an mobile AOE frame (which makes her unique until Chroma, but Chroma's range is too small). I find that I use her most in missions to kill enemies out of sight without having to aim or time (like instant AOE abilities that other frames have). Also, while other frames use their AOE ult to damage, Ember could have her Ult on AND use weapons at the same time (my current favorite is a sinister reach Amprex).

 

Warframe really isn't a game where we only play high tier void missions after some time. We keep having to go back to lower level alerts/invasions/farms etc. (e.g. I often solo interception using Ember for T4 keys). So while I totally agree that she will not be very effective at very high endless void missions, I find she sufficient to deal with any other missions (even lvl30-40+ nightmare missions) in a ... well.. lazier manner.

AOE is not a categoy.

Tank

Damage Per Second

Healer

Buffer (Typically not the only purpose but I'll put it here)

Crowd Control.

Those are the options, it could be more generalized but that covers all frames and roles in warframe.

 

AOE is a type of..... damage, heal or CC. Does she have a CC move, no, Heal, no, Buff, no, Take hits, no, does she do damage, yes. therefore a DPS frame. Yes she has AOE, that would make her an AOE DPS frame.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Lightsmith

[smithf]

AOE is not a categoy.

Tank

Damage Per Second

Healer

Buffer (Typically not the only purpose but I'll put it here)

Crowd Control.

Those are the options, it could be more generalized but that covers all frames and roles in warframe.

 

AOE is a type of..... damage, heal or CC. Does she have a CC move, no, Heal, no, Buff, no, Take hits, no, does she do damage, yes. therefore a DPS frame. Yes she has AOE, that would make her an AOE DPS frame.

it is if it dictates a different play style.

and it is not AOE. it is mobile AOE.

 

What other frames allows me to take melee and walk around in perma-block mode and killing everything behind cover/walls etc?

In this respect, I feel that Ember filled a niche role that no other frames can replace atm.

Edited April 7, 2015 by smithf