Concerns Of A Zephyr User, The Update 16.7 And 16.8 Revival: Now With Even More Turbulence Ranting!

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

After dwelling on the Warframes & Abilities feedback section of the forums for several months now, I have created a compilation of the most heavily and most effective Zephyr changes I've seen, as well as a troubling trend on DE's part that I've noticed.

 

1. Tail Wind

In its current state, Tail Wind has a number of problems. Here's what needs to happen to fix them:

-Invisible midair cliffs tripled in height

-Impossible to grab onto objects while Tail Wind is active

-Colliding with an object while Tail wind is active will instantly stop your Tail Wind

-Tail wind can be used again at any point during Tail wind's duration

 

By far the most popular other suggestion I've seen is that Tail Wind and Dive Bomb should be merged into a single ability; Contacting the ground while Tail Wind is active will trigger Dive Bomb's effect. This is an excellent suggestion in every way imaginable, and DE has absolutely no excuse for not having already implemented it. The one issue it creates is coming up with a new second ability for Zephyr, but that's discussed in the "Dive Bomb" section.

I've also seen a massive number of suggestions to make Tail Wind decrease Zephyr's gravity after using it. This would eliminate the annoying rising-falling that repeatedly using Tail Wind to stay in the air causes. Once again, This is an excellent suggestion in every way imaginable, and DE has absolutely no excuse for not having already implemented it as well.

Another slightly less popular suggestion I've seen is that Tail Wind should be reworked to give Zephyr a toggle-able archwing-style flight mode that drains energy over time. While I do think this idea has excellent potential, I'm worried that it will actually provide less mobility than Tail Wind currently does by slowing down Zephyr's flight speed to be more similar to the speed of Archwings. If Zephyr could move just as fast as she does with Tail Wind in its current state, then this idea would be absolutely fantastic.

Also, I've heard some people say that Tail Wind is now obsolete because of melee air attacks. Although I find this viewpoint to be utterly incorrect, it still has some truth to it. While Tail wind is not worthless or obsolete now, melee air attacks certainly de-valued it. However, this is more of a problem with melee air attacks than with Tail Wind, so they are to be discussed at a later date.

Finally, I absolutely have to mention the mid-air cliffs that teleport you back to the ground if you exceed a certain height. They are inconsistently placed, almost impossible to predict the location of, absolutely ruin any ability to fly, and need to be at least tripled in height. While they mostly just interfere with Tail Wind and nothing else, removing them would make it too easy to get out of the tileset, so the best thing to do would be to vastly increase how high up they are.

 

2. Dive Bomb

Dive Bomb is easily Zephyr's worst ability. The damage is so pitiful that it's basically just a radial knockdown and nothing else. As stated in section 1, there is absolutely no reason for Dive Bomb to be separate from Tail Wind. Combining the two abilities would allow for Zephyr to have a less terrible second ability, making every ability in her kit actually worth using. Combining Tail Wind with Dive Bomb would also allow you to basically activate Dive Bomb at an angle, which is a Dive bomb change I've seen extremely heavily requested by the community.

 

The most popular suggestion I've seen for Zephyr's new second ability is a toggle-able "hover mode" that greatly reduces Zephyr's gravity and drains energy over time. This would complement her flight capabilities very nicely. Zephyr's air control would still allow her to move around while hovering, and could even be used in conjunction with Tail Wind to move large distances very quickly without ever touching the ground.

 

3. Turbulence + U16.7 and 16.8 Talk

If I was Batman, Turbulence would be my murdered parents.

 

Where do I even start? Anyone who knows anything about my warframe forum history will know about my intense, burning hatred for the utterly stupid and broken mechanics of this ability, due to the fact that it's straight up less effective against hitscan weapons than projectile weapons. If you don't know how Turbulence's mechanics work, read about them here. Here is a quote from my original Turbulence topic:

 

As I was playing a Grineer sabotage mission on Ceres as Zephyr, I noticed that Turbulence was having literally no effect at all on any damage I was taking. The only way I could tell that Turbulence was even active was the timer over the ability icon. I reflected on how Turbulence gives me a complete immunity to all ranged damage when fighting Corpus, so this led me to conclude that something is seriously wrong here.

 

After researching Turbulence's mechanics, I discovered the true magnitude of the stupidity. For those of you who do not already know about Turbulence's mechanics, apparently Turbulence has an inner radius and an outer radius. The inner radius is about 5m wide at base, and the outer radius is about 20m wide at base (both can be increased with range mods.) Any projectile from a projectile weapon (such as Corpus guns) that hits the inner radius will be redirected away from you, and have no effect. Any hitscan weapon (such as Grineer guns) within the outer radius will receive an accuracy loss. This means that Turbulence will make you completely immune to all guns with slow-moving projectiles, but have little effect on hitscan weapons, and no effect at all on any hitscan weapons more than 20m away.

 

I suspect that this was done for purely aesthetic reasons. It looks cool to see the Corpus energy weapons be redirected around you, and because of that, the devs decided to make the mechanics for Turbulence cater to that. If you are unbalancing a warframe ability to make it look cool, there is a serious problem.

 

Building Zephyr for range would theoretically decrease the problem, but there would still be a limit to the effectiveness of Turbulence against hitscan weapons. A range build would also make maximizing any of Zephyr's other abilities completely impossible. All of Zephyr's abilities will benefit from an efficiency and duration build, and building for range as well would be extremely detrimental to her other abilities.

 

Turbulence definitely needs a rework to make it equally effective against all factions. How about giving an accuracy loss to all enemies targeting you or anything within the inner radius, no matter what type of gun they have? This would make it less ridiculously overpowered against Corpus guns, but make it more effective against Grineer guns, evening out the power against different factions. As of right now, Turbulence's mechanics are stupid, broken, make no sense, and are the way they are so the ability can look cool. I would like nothing more than to see this changed.

 

Turbulence currently has two problems:

 

1. Turbulence is straight up more effective against projectile weapons than hitscan weapons, making the ability unbalanced

 

2. Turbulence is a complete god mode against (non-explosive) projectile weapons, making the ability overpowered

 

I couldn't talk about Turbulence without bringing up U16.7 and 16.8. U16.7 brought a fix to a Turbulence bug relating to enemy accuracy. This had the unintended side effect of, as far as I could tell, giving Turbulence's outer radius infinite range. This fixed Turbulence's first problem, but actually made the second worse, since now it was a god mode against all non-explosive ranged weapons, not just projectiles. This was immediately changed in U16.8, in which the outer radius once again had range limits placed on it. Currently, Turbulence is in almost exactly the same state it was in and has all the same problems that it did when Zephyr was first released in U12, about 16 months ago. Absolutely no effort whatsoever has been made to correct these incredibly poorly designed mechanics.

 

This ability needs nothing short of a complete rework to fix its horrendousness. The best suggestion I've seen for Turbulence so far can be found here.

 

"Turbulence no longer reduces enemy accuracy. Instead, the inner radius has a X% chance to harmlessly deflect/negate any projectiles, hitscan or not, and an additional Y% chance to aim deflected projectiles at enemies within the outer radius. Both chances affected by Power Strength."

 

This is the best change I have seen so far because it makes Turbulence affect hitscan and projectile weapons equally, it removes Zephyr's god mode against projectile weapons, it actually makes Turbulence do something against hitscan weapons, and it preserves the inner and outer radius mechanic. However, this suggestion is not perfect yet, so I would like to make a few tweaks.

 

-The X% deflection chance is capped at a number below 100%. This number should be in the range of 80-95%.

-Any shot capable of dealing damage greater than 50% of your combined health and shield values has the deflection chance cap removed for it. This is to prevent RNGesus letting a single sniper bullet instakill you through your Turbulence at just the wrong time.

 

4. Tornado

Tornado is an excellent ability in theory, but has some major consistency issues. The spawn locations of the tornadoes is extremely uncontrollable, and enemies often end up being ejected before they've taken a significant amount of damage. Here is the best and most popular solution I've seen thus far.

Casting Tornado costs 25 energy, takes 1/4 of the original casting time, and summons a single tornado wherever your crosshair is pointing. Zephyr can summon up to 4 tornadoes at once, totaling 100 energy for 4 tornadoes, exactly as it is now. Casting a 5th Tornado will destroy the oldest tornado. Tornadoes are now affected by gravity, can no longer move inside of walls, and all slowly move towards the location of your crosshair. This change would give Zephyr far more control over the placement of her tornadoes, making her ult a far more reliable ability.

To solve the problem of inconsistent damage, the solution is extremely obvious. Any enemy sucked into a tornado remains inside the tornado until the duration ends. This means that any enemy caught will take the full remaining damage of the tornado, eliminating even more inconsistency.

 

5. DE Is Intentionally Ignoring Zephyr

Throughout the entire time Zephyr has been in in the game, I can only remember a single intentional change to one of her abilities, a small buff/fix to Turbulence (how did that fix work out now?) that happened soon after Zephyr was released. This means that Zephyr has received the fewest changes of any warframe relative to how long she's been in the game. Chroma has probably received more changes than Zephyr. Even Frost and Ember, two of the most obsolete, worthless frames in the game, have still received the occasional makeover. Not so with Zephyr.

I experienced Zephyr's neglect in full when I tried to raise awareness of how horrifically broken Turbulence was, and still is to this day. I gained a massive amount of support from the community across multiple threads discussing multiple problems with the ability, but now, literally months down the line, there has been absolutely no effort made to fix these cancerous bugs that utterly cripple Zephyr.

 

With the addition of the Grineer sea lab tile set, it's plain to see how little thought goes into level design and how it might harm Zephyr. Many tile sets are cluttered with random debris and awkward terrain, with plenty of protruding geometry for Zephyr to get caught on while Tail Winding. One of my Tail Wind suggestions was to make Tail Wind push Zephyr sideways as well as forwards when she collides with a wall, and while this will help massively, it's not enough on its own. Hopefully the tile set redesigns accompanying Parkour 2.0 will make Warframe's environments a bit more Zephyr-friendly, but with DE's blatant neglect, I won't get my hopes up.

All of these brilliant, popular suggestions that have sprung up on the feedback forums haven't even so much as been responded to by someone who could potentially fix these issues. Will Zephyr ever get these much needed changes? Will Turbulence ever ascend from its hideous, malformed state?

All I ask for is one response from one DE staff member telling me that you still care about Zephyr. Or tell me that Zephyr might as well not exist in the minds of the devs and will be ignored till the end of time; at least then I'll know the truth.

Edited June 11, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[unknow99]

Wow, I often fall into a thread asking for frames rework with over-the-top changes, but your suggestions are...Brilliant!! :o

 

Starting from now, I will not only struggle to bring Stealth & Parkour attention from the devs, but I'll also do the same for our favourite birdframe!!

 

 

_{Yeah, Tail Wind & her 2nd power should really be merged. And why hasn't she got a free-flight ability?!...}

[Wurdyburd]

Hear hear.

 

I'm personally pretty okay with Zephyr, since I love her advanced mobility and her high health/shields are extremely appreciated.

That said, I find myself never using any of her abilities, ever.

 

Tailwind is only useful when you're crossing large expanses of terrain at a time, which are few and far between in this game. Most tilesets consist of narrow corridors and bent pathways to the target door. Even outside that, Tailwind moves so fast as to make complex aerial maneuvers or actual AIMING pretty difficult.

 

Dive Bomb is horribad. No question or argument about it. I've never used the ability outside of when the frame was released, to see how it might be made useful. My conclusions were: it can't. The height needed to make the damage any good is much higher than many ceilings in the game, including the non-existent ones [here's looking at you Earth], and the stun isn't even that useful since you need to be right in the thick of things to make it effective at all.

Dive Bomb's augment is equally laughable, having a vortex radius of about 5m. Seeing as we have no way to really AIM Dive Bomb short of "I think I'm in position, oh well here goes", the ability feels clumsy and useless.

 

As mentioned, I don't have an issue with Zephyr's health and shields, and so never use Turbulence. However, when I do, I think to myself: "well this isn't helping very much".

Turbulence's aug is a little fun, as the speed boost is useful for fast clearing and rapid-fire weapons.

 

Tornado is a bit of a joke as well. We can't cancel it, we can't aim it, the elemental effect is like ??what??, and it can't do enough damage to make it really useful. That said, why should it? Why does Zephyr need damaging abilities at all? In every game that features elemental powers, air/wind has NEVER been a good source of damage. It's always been support and alternative uses. Slapping Tornado onto Zephyr felt reminiscent of early beta, when every frame had their 'nuke' 'ultimate' ability, which just dealt damage in a radius, aside from Loki.

 

All of your suggestions feel like you've thought about this for a long time, which you clearly have. Support from me on getting this at least considered, if not implemented.

[Grander.Alderman]

Before anything can be done to Tail Wind, DE really need to do something about the level heights. It's fine when you use it indoors and hit a ceiling, but when you have a duration build and Tail Wind outdoors and get teleported to the ground for getting too high it kinda breaks the ability.

 

It's especially bad on the ice planet tileset, near extraction, where the "outdoor ceiling" is so low I can get teleported by just doing a directional melee attack upwards. 

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Hear hear.

 

I'm personally pretty okay with Zephyr, since I love her advanced mobility and her high health/shields are extremely appreciated.

That said, I find myself never using any of her abilities, ever.

 

Tailwind is only useful when you're crossing large expanses of terrain at a time, which are few and far between in this game. Most tilesets consist of narrow corridors and bent pathways to the target door. Even outside that, Tailwind moves so fast as to make complex aerial maneuvers or actual AIMING pretty difficult.

 

Dive Bomb is horribad. No question or argument about it. I've never used the ability outside of when the frame was released, to see how it might be made useful. My conclusions were: it can't. The height needed to make the damage any good is much higher than many ceilings in the game, including the non-existent ones [here's looking at you Earth], and the stun isn't even that useful since you need to be right in the thick of things to make it effective at all.

Dive Bomb's augment is equally laughable, having a vortex radius of about 5m. Seeing as we have no way to really AIM Dive Bomb short of "I think I'm in position, oh well here goes", the ability feels clumsy and useless.

 

Before anything can be done to Tail Wind, DE really need to do something about the level heights. It's fine when you use it indoors and hit a ceiling, but when you have a duration build and Tail Wind outdoors and get teleported to the ground for getting too high it kinda breaks the ability.

 

It's especially bad on the ice planet tileset, near extraction, where the "outdoor ceiling" is so low I can get teleported by just doing a directional melee attack upwards. 

 

If Dive bomb and Tail Wind were merged, you would be able to aim Dive Bomb at the angle of your choosing, making it much more controllable. I will say that the mid-air cliffs need to be at least tripled in height or removed altogether. I'll add the removal of mid-air cliffs to the Tail Wind section.

 

As mentioned, I don't have an issue with Zephyr's health and shields, and so never use Turbulence. However, when I do, I think to myself: "well this isn't helping very much".

 

That's probably because it's a god mode v.s. projectile weapons, but does almost nothing v.s. hitscan weapons. It's a bugged and broken ability through and through.

 

Tornado is a bit of a joke as well. We can't cancel it, we can't aim it, the elemental effect is like ??what??, and it can't do enough damage to make it really useful. That said, why should it? Why does Zephyr need damaging abilities at all? In every game that features elemental powers, air/wind has NEVER been a good source of damage. It's always been support and alternative uses. Slapping Tornado onto Zephyr felt reminiscent of early beta, when every frame had their 'nuke' 'ultimate' ability, which just dealt damage in a radius, aside from Loki.

 

I actually calculated Tornado's total damage with my Zephyr build (which uses no strength mods) and the total damage came out at nearly 30k. That's on the same level as as Saryn's Miasma. however, the full damage potential can't really be inflicted reliably. With my Tornado changes, you would be able to inflict the full 30k every time as long as you used Tornado skillfully.

 

I should also mention that I didn't come up with most of the suggested changes. They have been refined through many different forum posts, and the ones listed here are the most heavily requested ones I've seen.

[taiiat]

i've corrected your information on Turbulence several times, but i guess it's cool if you keep copy pasting incomplete information that has incorrect deductions in it.

and ofcourse, continuing to repost the same threads over and over. bumping one thread would be better than making new threads in this case. it would actually be less spam from you. and more centralized information. [more organized]

Edited April 7, 2015 by taiiat

[tris1]

I agree on most of this

Tail wind and dive bomb should be one ability which is obvious

Turbulence is broken against hit scan at higher levels and I do t4 and could not understand why I was still hit by the bombards sdter I got max range on the deflection. The rockets just come straight back in about a second or 2.

Tornado is ok but if rather the enemies stay in the tornado and don't just fly off everywhere and have 4 tornados and 1 should point to the crosshair

[SmilingMad]

i've corrected your information on Turbulence several times, but i guess it's cool if you keep copy pasting incomplete information that has incorrect deductions in it.

and ofcourse, continuing to repost the same threads over and over. bumping one thread would be better than making new threads in this case. it would actually be less spam from you. and more centralized information. [more organized]

I'd like to know what you've corrected. 

 

I agree with most of this, except for perhaps the tornado changes. Seems to be a tad too powerful in that way.

[(PSN)SteampunkJester]

Never have I wanted a thread to flourish as much as this one. 100% agree on everything. +1

[taiiat]

I'd like to know what you've corrected.

Turbulence is too effective against Weapons with Ballistic Trajectories. it's an instant gg.

it's inconsistent against RayTrace Weapons. sometimes it's godmode, sometimes it doesn't seem to reduce the number of incoming shots at all.

there's how it is.

i just spent 20 minutes of letting Grineer with various Weapons shooting at me.

inconsistent.

it's probably placebo effect but when a lot of Enemies were firing at once, it seemed to 'saturate', making it easier for shots to hit me.

but small groups of Enemies, generally made them highly inaccurate.

still, inconsistent. even single Enemies sometimes hit Accurately (as if not being affected at all), and other times missing completely.

the Range an Enemy was from me didn't make any difference whatsoever. when Enemies were hitting or not, going from point blank all the way to one or more Tiles away - didn't change results at all.

- - - - - - - - - -

so Turbulence should probably be consistently effective against all Ranged Weapons, but never be godmode.

so you'd reduce the incoming Ranged Fire... basically, almost entirely.

like, say, reducing incoming Ranged Fire by 90-95%. you still get hit from time to time, but it makes a huge difference.

to add an extra note to this, allowing an Enemy with a Raytrace Weapon to fire for 20 or 30 seconds without me even moving, just watching, has hit rates everyhere between 0% and 100% at all Ranges that the Enemy is inside the Radius of Enemy Accuracy debuff.

Enemies will get hyper Accurate now and then, be incapable of hitting at all now and then, and hit a few shots out of a volley now and then. and everywhere in between.

Enemies now having ideal Ranges for Accuracy and coning out closer and further than that likely has a connection, but is unlikely to be the whole reason.

thereygo.

Edited April 7, 2015 by taiiat

[Draciusen]

Tail Wind and Dive Bomb merging into 1 ability (hue) is the one I'd like to see the most. Just do the Dive Bomb slam whenever Zephyr collides with an environmental object, and change the Dive Bomb Vortex augment to Tail Wind Vortex.

 

It'd also provide benefit in the cramped tiles as well, since you'll accidentally CC enemies as you bump around the map with Tail Wind.

[SmilingMad]

to add an extra note to this, allowing an Enemy with a Raytrace Weapon to fire for 20 or 30 seconds without me even moving, just watching, has hit rates everyhere between 0% and 100% at all Ranges that the Enemy is inside the Radius of Enemy Accuracy debuff.

Enemies will get hyper Accurate now and then, be incapable of hitting at all now and then, and hit a few shots out of a volley now and then. and everywhere in between.

Enemies now having ideal Ranges for Accuracy and coning out closer and further than that likely has a connection, but is unlikely to be the whole reason.

thereygo.

Interesting. I've noticed it too, and I really wish turbulence was more consistent in messing with the accuracy of enemies. I want to do some testing myself, especially with the corrupted heavy gunner, because (I might be wrong on this) I'm getting the impression that they are influenced differently by the ability. It's probably nothing, but still.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

to add an extra note to this, allowing an Enemy with a Raytrace Weapon to fire for 20 or 30 seconds without me even moving, just watching, has hit rates everyhere between 0% and 100% at all Ranges that the Enemy is inside the Radius of Enemy Accuracy debuff.

Enemies will get hyper Accurate now and then, be incapable of hitting at all now and then, and hit a few shots out of a volley now and then. and everywhere in between.

Enemies now having ideal Ranges for Accuracy and coning out closer and further than that likely has a connection, but is unlikely to be the whole reason.

thereygo.

 

I have noticed something similar to what you describe here with Flux Rifle crewmen, as the laser will sometimes erratically move around with severely lowered accuracy, and other times the laser will move around too little to prevent any damage or not move around at all.

 

My testing with Grineer Elite Lancers remains correct. Within 15m, the Lancer was missing every shot. Outside of 15m, the Lancer was hitting every shot. Accuracy should start decreasing with range past a certain point, though, but the furthest away I went from the lancer was about 30m (Turbulence's outer radius with my build is 35.5m), and I was still being hit by every shot at that range.

 

So yes, we are both correct. Turbulence is bugged or at the very least inconsistent against hitscan weapons and needs to be fixed/changed.

 

This thread does not focus mainly on Turbulence, though. I still have a bone to pick with the ability, but this thread is a compilation of the most highly requested Zephyr changes I've seen, as well as a direct question to DE about Zephyr's neglect. Turbulence getting fixed would just be a side effect of this thread being acknowledged by DE.

Edited April 7, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[DaganEldr]

I actually made a post on her fourth pertaining to this yesterday. Should be a few posts down.

 

Zephyr needs love. :o

[taiiat]

Accuracy should start decreasing with range

except Enemy Accuracy has an 'ideal' point. and cones closer and further from that.

it's different for every Enemy Weapon.

Accuracy only goes down as you move further away from that ideal Range for their Weapon. this is not necessarily just further away (see Ballista and Sniper / Nullifier Crewman).

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

except Enemy Accuracy has an 'ideal' point. and cones closer and further from that.

it's different for every Enemy Weapon.

Accuracy only goes down as you move further away from that ideal Range for their Weapon. this is not necessarily just further away (see Ballista and Sniper / Nullifier Crewman).

 

I'm aware of this. I was referring to an accuracy decrease past the ideal point.

 

Edited the post to be less confusing.

 

I actually made a post on her fourth pertaining to this yesterday. Should be a few posts down.

 

Zephyr needs love. :o

 

It was your post that inspired the Tornado section of mine, although I've seen very similar ideas elsewhere. Your change is excellent and needs to happen, but there are a few other changes that need to be made to Tornado before it's perfect. This is a collection of the best and most highly requested Zephyr changes, after all.

Edited April 7, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[taiiat]

also, as far as i'm concerned, Turbulence can replace the Slot 2 to combine Divebomb into Tailwind, and Tornado can be Slot 3, and this Ability can replace Slot 4:

this was a little too rich for the blood of the Tornado Augment DC Thread i guess, but i'd still want to have this anyways.

Edited April 7, 2015 by taiiat

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I don't think DE's ignoring Zephyr so much as they fail to balance things in a timely manner in general.

 

But agreed on your changes.

[ExPotato]

HELLIONS F***ING FLY BETTER THEN THE AIR WARFRAME

How the **** coud a broken DNA stupid grineer clone with a jetpack fly better then the ELEMENTAL OF FLIGHT WARFRAME?

[SullyTheStalker]

I've made a suggestion that Turbulence reduce Zephyr's gravity dramatically while active, and to change her second ability to some sort of cone-shaped CC wave that will push her backwards (as in, 180 degrees from where she aims) while in air.  This will make Zephyr more flight-friendly while lowering the need to look up for Tail Wind, aim down to shoot, repeat ad nauseum just to stay in the air while dealing damage.  Getting to close to the ground?  Just look downwards (which is what you were probably already doing) and press 2!  Boom, more height for ya!

[Rafarutos]

Oh yea zephyr do need some love. I wont talk about ability 1 and 2 because i have no actual problem with them ( call me crazy ). I use them for mobility and cc quite often and tail wind is moslty why i main zephyr (fun)

BUT I think turbulence and tornados need to be looked at.

I could say that turbulence is ok and thats the problem. I find all other defensive abilities so much better either if its for personal defence (shatter shield) or team protection (snow globe, hell even volt's shield)

And tornados... How many time did I have 10 mobs in front of me thinking "all right cc time!!", casting tornados only to... not see any tornados on the said mobs and see only 1 or 2 enemies flying behind me.

I mean mobility is great and fun and all but in warframe no team really wants THE most mobile because well all frames are pretty mobile anyway (space ninja). Other than that her team defence skill is not reliable enough and her cc is not reliable enough either.

Zephyrs as of now is mobile and (somewhat) pretty tough, but i think she doesnt bring enough to a team.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

I'm always the one against the merging of Tail Wind and Dive Bomb. IMO Dive Bomb just needs more utility and a separate ground version to be able to cast it while on the ground with slightly tweaked effect. (like pushing away everyone around you, dealing slash procs)

 

As for Tornadoes, I think it's not a good idea to cast every tornado separately, so to cast 4 tornadoes you'd need to spend 5+ seconds casting all of them?

I think it would be good if one of the tornadoes would spawn at your crosshair, while the other 3 spawn as usual. The one that you spawn manualy could also be slightly larger than others, with increased suck-in range, and that one would keep all the enemies in it for the entire duration, while the others (smaller ones) would still throw enemies away occassionaly.

[yles9056]

As for Tornadoes, I think it's not a good idea to cast every tornado separately, so to cast 4 tornadoes you'd need to spend 5+ seconds casting all of them?

I think it would be good if one of the tornadoes would spawn at your crosshair, while the other 3 spawn as usual. The one that you spawn manualy could also be slightly larger than others, with increased suck-in range, and that one would keep all the enemies in it for the entire duration, while the others (smaller ones) would still throw enemies away occassionaly.

 

Maybe the cast speed should be increased in compensation.

I personally prefer something more reliable and controllable than instant but more random when it comes to abilities that cannot be recast or canceled.

 

As for Dive Bomb, I would suggest to combine it with Tail Wind's vertical lift part. The vertical lift in Tail Wind is meant to be with Dive Bomb not Tail Wind so why not just put them together?

Edited April 8, 2015 by yles9056

[Gwenwed]

Turbulence's problem is linked to the hitscan properties of weapons.

Hitscan projectiles has no travel time so in order for Turbulence to "deflect" the projectiles, game mechanics lowered the "accuracy" of the shooter based on distance.

 

The core problem is this: hitscan bullets have no travel time.

This also affects Nova's AMD augment Antimatter Absorb, where all Corpus projectiles are absorbed but not the Grineer hitscan weapons unless they are inside the AMA bubble.

 

To fix both Turbulence and AMA, hitscan weapons have to switch from the insta-hit game mechanism to some very super fast projectiles.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Turbulence's problem is linked to the hitscan properties of weapons.

Hitscan projectiles has no travel time so in order for Turbulence to "deflect" the projectiles, game mechanics lowered the "accuracy" of the shooter based on distance.

 

The core problem is this: hitscan bullets have no travel time.

This also affects Nova's AMD augment Antimatter Absorb, where all Corpus projectiles are absorbed but not the Grineer hitscan weapons unless they are inside the AMA bubble.

 

To fix both Turbulence and AMA, hitscan weapons have to switch from the insta-hit game mechanism to some very super fast projectiles.

 

I don't think that it's necessary to kill all hitscan weapons to fix their problems, the game just needs to check if anything like Turbulence or AMD is in the way of the shooter's line of sight. I've written extensively on how to fix Turbulence by removing the accuracy reduction mechanic and equalizing the ability against hitscan and projectile weapons. It's definitely possible to have hitscan and projectile weapons both be deflected by warframe abilities, which apparently DE still needs to figure out.