Possibly Have Energy Gained From Kills / Assists / Captures?

[KogSothoth]

This is an idea I've had for a bit, and I still don't know if it would work, but I definitely thought it'd be worth bringing up here. (Also, hopefully this hasn't already been posted D:)

 

As the title says, the idea is that energy would first be removed from every map; then, players would need to get kills, assists, and captures/objective completions to gain small amounts of energy. Note: kills and assists would only give energy when achieved WITHOUT powers, meaning you have to use your Primary, Secondary or Melee.

 

What does this do?

 

1) Energy will no longer fluctuate with what map you're on.

2) Coptering, a highly controversial topic, will lose its huge advantage of hoarding energy spots, YET it will completely retain its useability.

3) The frequency of powers (namely, ultimates) will be reduced, as players are forced to go into direct combat in order to get more energy, which also puts them at risk for losing what they have, meaning they may be more likely to use lower cost powers.

 

Thoughts?

Edited April 10, 2015 by KogSothoth

[nickelshark]

But when we get energies won't we be able to gain mass amounts of energy from wiping enemies off the face of the planet with them?

 

Also, does the energy go only to the tenno who got the kill/assist/objective? So wouldn't this put people who are in a more supportive role or those who are not blazing through the map with a boltor prime killing everything at a disadvantage and only to promote the "race" mentality?

 

Oh PVP. Well, I have misunderstood and have failed to read the category.derp

 

I think this would be a much better system. Rewarding players for achieving things rather than being the first one to a spot on the map.

Edited April 9, 2015 by nickelshark

[Xiusa]

I kinda like this idea. It actually reinforces skillful play and eliminates energy drought across the map. Of course, I think that kills that come from abilities shouldn't give you energy (or at least a reduced amount) because if you manage to kill all 4 enemies with your ultimate ability you'd get a lot of energy back.

 

Perhaps still have some energy orb spots laying around? Maybe add in hacking to dispense them???? Just throwing out ideas here

Edited April 9, 2015 by Xiusa

[VKhaun]

Wouldn't that just turn powers into killstreak rewards? :/

 

If people can just hang out on top of energy sources or copter to and from the path the enemy takes for the objective, then lets just call it what it is: a map design flaw. They need to rebalance that directly. Expand the map to put the energy farther from the path, or alter the terrain so people can't easily copter to/from in half a second.

Edited April 9, 2015 by VKhaun

[Xiusa]

Wouldn't that just turn powers into killstreak rewards? :/

 

If people can just hang out on top of energy sources or copter to and from the path the enemy takes for the objective, then lets just call it what it is: a map design flaw. They need to rebalance that directly. Expand the map to put the energy farther from the path, or alter the terrain so people can't easily copter to/from in half a second.

Incentive to get kills would help balance the game mode out. Even if the energy spawns are spread out further people will still find the fastest way to get to those energy spawns; by coptering. 

[cary2010haha]

so spawn kill get more adv.

[KogSothoth]

I kinda like this idea. It actually reinforces skillful play and eliminates energy drought across the map. Of course, I think that kills that come from abilities shouldn't give you energy (or at least a reduced amount) because if you manage to kill all 4 enemies with your ultimate ability you'd get a lot of energy back.

 

Perhaps still have some energy orb spots laying around? Maybe add in hacking to dispense them???? Just throwing out ideas here

 

Oh yes, definitely; kills gotten by using energy would not reward energy. (Maybe even for channeling--which, btw I hate in PvP--so it gets a disadvantage?)

 

Wouldn't that just turn powers into killstreak rewards? :/

 

If people can just hang out on top of energy sources or copter to and from the path the enemy takes for the objective, then lets just call it what it is: a map design flaw. They need to rebalance that directly. Expand the map to put the energy farther from the path, or alter the terrain so people can't easily copter to/from in half a second.

 

Yeah, that's exactly what I was going for. It rewards players for taking a more active and useful role within the matches, rather than having them coptering around in the background collecting enough energy until they can ult.

 

Also, its a much simpler solution than having to expand out every map and make sure each individual one works.

 

 

so spawn kill get more adv.

 

 

If a team is spawn killing, they're more than likely already hoarding the energy spawns, so there's really not that much of a difference. In fact, with a reasonable amount of energy per kill (10 energy?) it would actually be less effective than simply taking the energy spawns.

 

And spawn killing is entirely its own problem.

Edited April 9, 2015 by KogSothoth

[VKhaun]

Incentive to get kills would help balance the game mode out. Even if the energy spawns are spread out further people will still find the fastest way to get to those energy spawns; by coptering. 

1) It would make the game snowbally, not balanced. As soon as one team had the upper hand for a few kills the other team is now at a disadvantage because of power availability. Then when they're killed... by powers... they drop more power orbs for the enemy to use... the enemy spawns and they're at a disadvantage again...

 

2) When I say fix the problem, it's not really an argument to come back and say it's still a problem. If you can still just copter over there and back then it's not fixed. You need to adjust the map so it's not that simple. There are plenty of places in this game you can't copter to. Vertical areas, long wall runs over pits, stuff like that.

[KogSothoth]

1) It would make the game snowbally, not balanced. As soon as one team had the upper hand for a few kills the other team is now at a disadvantage because of power availability. Then when they're killed... by powers... they drop more power orbs for the enemy to use... the enemy spawns and they're at a disadvantage again...

 

2) When I say fix the problem, it's not really an argument to come back and say it's still a problem. If you can still just copter over there and back then it's not fixed. You need to adjust the map so it's not that simple. There are plenty of places in this game you can't copter to. Vertical areas, long wall runs over pits, stuff like that.

 

The idea would be that kills with powers would not give out energy; as that would be a vicious cycle like you mentioned.

[Xiusa]

1) It would make the game snowbally, not balanced. As soon as one team had the upper hand for a few kills the other team is now at a disadvantage because of power availability. Then when they're killed... by powers... they drop more power orbs for the enemy to use... the enemy spawns and they're at a disadvantage again...

 

2) When I say fix the problem, it's not really an argument to come back and say it's still a problem. If you can still just copter over there and back then it's not fixed. You need to adjust the map so it's not that simple. There are plenty of places in this game you can't copter to. Vertical areas, long wall runs over pits, stuff like that.

In a game mode where my skill is put to the test I'd rather be rewarded with energy in order to get ahead than not be able to get any energy simply because people can use the Bo to zip across the map like nobody's business. Making it so that kills from abilities do not give energy would reduce the issues with constant power availability which is very prevalent in the current PvP.

 

Changing where the energy spawns won't change the fact that people will ignore enemies and quite possibly objectives to reach it. If it's not coptering, it's directional melee. Both are powerful mobility tools that don't require much skill in order to utilize.

[VKhaun]

The idea would be that kills with powers would not give out energy; as that would be a vicious cycle like you mentioned.

 

That sounds good.

[Pythadragon]

The idea would be that kills with powers would not give out energy; as that would be a vicious cycle like you mentioned.

 

This still unbalances the game and allows a small skill (or luck) difference to get out of hand very quickly.

 

Powers aren't always intended to kill.

For example, Mag pull rarely kills the target, but sure sets up a nice shot to the face with a lex.

 

You are already rewarded for killing enemy players with the possibility of their dead body dropping energy.

 

It shouldn't go beyond that.

 

There must be sources of energy other than defeating enemy players.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Pythadragon

[Souplesse]

You understand that energy orb spawns on maps occupy the same role as power weapons in determining map flow, right? Instead of having weapon pickups, you grab ammo (energy) for the power weapon you equipped before the match (warframe). That's why energy is placed in awkward or exposed areas, such as the open lane down the middle of the snow map, or the blind niche in the hallway on the Void map. It forces you to make the judgement call on whether or not it's safe to grab it (which is also dependent on your skill at mobility). The energy in front of the flag building on the indoor Corpus map is an interesting tactical choice, too. Taking it and smoothly entering the flag building means coming in from an angle near the centre line if you don't want to have to turn around, but if you're entering the area from the sides (which is encouraged by the door positions), you have to make the choice between grabbing the exposed energy, grabbing the flag, or just passing through the safer cover of the building.

These are all choices of tactical mobility, so it's logical that those with the best ability to maneuver will usually get the most advantage out of the situation. There's nothing wrong with coptering dominating energy and map control; they're going faster than you, so it's to be expected. After all, those players are constantly looking for ways to shave time off of their routes, while also engaging in combat and honing their aim and energy management. How is that not skilful?

However, I'd like for energy pickups to be normalised to 25 energy at all times. Then, a player should drop half of their energy on death, rounded down. That way, it's important to run routes that cross both sides of the map to build 100 energy (which creates a higher burden of risk and execution required), while also rewarding eliminating an enemy with an energy advantage and disincentivising conservative energy management.

[.Talia.]

This would be a good alternative to the ridiculous amount of energy on the maps. And force the teams to fight each other instead of running around the map hoarding energy.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

So like destiny?

I like it, it was one of the few things that bungie did right

[TaylorsContraction]

No, there's already an abundance of energy, players drop energy orbs on death (if they had energy). People rely on skills to get the upper hands, no need to give or that upper hand for free. From personal experience, once on a killing spree roll, I start to dominate energy spawns because the dead don't take no energy. This gives me huge advantages in successive encounters. You're suggestion makes it easier which isn't good imo. Actually I think your suggestion is flat out selfish. You want to kill 3 people with a ult and have enough energy to do it again instantly...

[rockscl]

This would further push snowballing, the current system is better than what you are suggesting in such regard

[KogSothoth]

You understand that energy orb spawns on maps occupy the same role as power weapons in determining map flow, right? Instead of having weapon pickups, you grab ammo (energy) for the power weapon you equipped before the match (warframe). That's why energy is placed in awkward or exposed areas, such as the open lane down the middle of the snow map, or the blind niche in the hallway on the Void map. It forces you to make the judgement call on whether or not it's safe to grab it (which is also dependent on your skill at mobility). The energy in front of the flag building on the indoor Corpus map is an interesting tactical choice, too. Taking it and smoothly entering the flag building means coming in from an angle near the centre line if you don't want to have to turn around, but if you're entering the area from the sides (which is encouraged by the door positions), you have to make the choice between grabbing the exposed energy, grabbing the flag, or just passing through the safer cover of the building.

These are all choices of tactical mobility, so it's logical that those with the best ability to maneuver will usually get the most advantage out of the situation. There's nothing wrong with coptering dominating energy and map control; they're going faster than you, so it's to be expected. After all, those players are constantly looking for ways to shave time off of their routes, while also engaging in combat and honing their aim and energy management. How is that not skilful?

 

Really? Personally I've never veered away from energy spawns. With the ease of movement I find the only thing going through my mind when looking towards an energy spawn is, "Is there an energy orb there?" If the answer is yes, I go to it and grab it and that's that; even then I never have a struggle getting away because of--again--the ease and safety of coptering.

 

And if energy was removed, there'd still be the health spawns, which are quite important as they are now, and the ammo spawns; both of which more skilled players would still be able to control and use to their advantage.

 

The general reasoning for the idea of having energy removed from the map and connected to kills is to make energy less abundant and more of a risk to attain (which I see you might not understand, seeing as in your experience getting energy as-is is already quite the risk) pushing to make engagements more reliant and focused on primaries, secondaries and melee, which, in turn, are more reliant on aim and skill than most powers are. Generally: less power spam and a more leveled playing field.

 

So like destiny?

I like it, it was one of the few things that bungie did right

 

Yes, like Destiny's abilities / Call of Duty's Point Streaks.

 

No, there's already an abundance of energy, players drop energy orbs on death (if they had energy). People rely on skills to get the upper hands, no need to give or that upper hand for free. From personal experience, once on a killing spree roll, I start to dominate energy spawns because the dead don't take no energy. This gives me huge advantages in successive encounters. You're suggestion makes it easier which isn't good imo. Actually I think your suggestion is flat out selfish. You want to kill 3 people with a ult and have enough energy to do it again instantly...

 

Forgot to put this in the main post, so I'll make it clear: you'd have to get kills/assists with your weapons in order to gain energy. Power kills would not reward energy; that would just be ridiculous.

 

This would further push snowballing, the current system is better than what you are suggesting in such regard

 

I think you're basing this on thinking power kills would reward energy, so I'll say it again: power kills would not reward energy. Thus, there really wouldn't be any snowballing; the only time one team would dominate is when they're simply better.

[Dojutrek]

I think this is in the right direction, but it needs something more to improve it. Not sure if this suggestion would be beneficial, but never hurts to try.

 

Try adding a Blue Shell Effect to the original concept. As an example, if a player dies repeatedly within a certain time frame (ex. 30 seconds) they are given enough energy as a counter-balance the potential gains of the other team. This would hinder spawn camping or a domination scenario, as a player killed repeatedly would just use whatever skill they'd have energy for. This Blue Shell effect could be reset via Environmental Deaths to stop potential abuse.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Dojutrek

[rockscl]

 

I think you're basing this on thinking power kills would reward energy, so I'll say it again: power kills would not reward energy. Thus, there really wouldn't be any snowballing; the only time one team would dominate is when they're simply better.

 

what im seeing is how gunners and meleers will be imposible to stop if the only mean to get energy is killing them, thus the snowballl will be granted, as of now, at least one player can escape and gather energy without killing anyone, with energy from kills simply there will not be any chance