Pvp Is Only Spam Knockdown And Skills!

[.Talia.]

Spamming for a couple body shots in pvp 1.0 wasn't much more skillful.  Time to take off the rose tinted glasses imo.

 

It was more skillful than the current format. This new Conclave is a skilless ability and melee spam fest.

[Rompido]

It was more skillful than the current format. This new Conclave is a skilless ability and melee spam fest.

[Aggh]

It was more skillful than the current format. This new Conclave is a skilless ability and melee spam fest.

Barely.  We traded spamming for a couple body shots for spamming melee or abilities.  The difference is pretty meaningless in the long run as far as building an actual player base for this mode goes.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Aggh

[Feyangol]

No, it was fun for the tiny population of players that could stand pvp as it was back then.  Low ttk game modes will always hold the interest of some players, but unless it's an established franchise (ex cod), that's generally not enough to maintain a noticeable player base.

 

The really funny thing about power spam complaints is that aside from abusing unbalanced melee, powers are currently the only way to bring the ttk down to what it was before.  Spamming for a couple body shots in pvp 1.0 wasn't much more skillful.  Time to take off the rose tinted glasses imo.

Let's look at the differences:

- faster movement in vertical and orthogonal direction

- bigger distances

- more tactical hiding

- less spamming of weapons

- more unconfortable weapons (you didn't use ammo mods/recoil mods/reload mods/zoom mods, because you needed dmg)

 

There is a reason why the most players, who were good at conclave 1.0, destroy nearly everything in conclave 2.0 ...

[Aggh]

Let's look at the differences:

- faster movement in vertical and orthogonal direction

- bigger distances

- more tactical hiding

- less spamming of weapons

- more unconfortable weapons (you didn't use ammo mods/recoil mods/reload mods/zoom mods, because you needed dmg)

 

There is a reason why the most players, who were good at conclave 1.0, destroy nearly everything in conclave 2.0 ...

You left out the 1-2 shot kills.  Try and get a competitive league (not even professional) to pick up a game where most weapons can be made to kill in a couple shots to the body.  They'll laugh at you.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Aggh

[Feyangol]

You left out the 1-2 shot kills.  Try and get a competitive league (not even professional) to pick up a game where most weapons can be made to kill in a couple shots to the body.  They'll laugh at you.

How you said:

Abilities bring the ttk of the new conclave down to the level of the old conclave. So what is than the difference between old and new conclave, if it isn't the ttk? The old one has my mentioned points and the new one has ability spam. Let me guess which is more skillfull ... Yeah, it is the first one.

[Pythadragon]

How you said:

Abilities bring the ttk of the new conclave down to the level of the old conclave. So what is than the difference between old and new conclave, if it isn't the ttk? The old one has my mentioned points and the new one has ability spam. Let me guess which is more skillfull ... Yeah, it is the first one.

 

because ash bladestorming an entire team using only 25 energy was skillful.

same with a trinity with link. or blessing. or invulnerable valkyrs. or black energy invisible players hitting for 4x melee damage.

 

your language implies that abilities didn't exist in conclave 1.0. 

 

conclave 1.0 was a mess. there was certainly skill involved, but it was overshadowed by broken mechanics.

 

conclave 2.0 has balance issues, but nothing as broken as 25 energy ultimates and acrids that bypass shields and continue to kill you after respawn for 20+ seconds. it's a more clean slate to build UP rather than dealing with 22 frames + hundreds of weapon combinations and 88 abilities all at once.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Pythadragon

[Feyangol]

because ash bladestorming an entire team using only 25 energy was skillful.

same with a trinity with link. or blessing. or invulnerable valkyrs.

 

your language implies that abilities didn't exist in conclave 1.0. 

conclave 1.0 was a mess. there was certainly skill involved, but it was overshadowed by broken mechanics.

 

conclave 2.0 has balance issues, but nothing as broken as 25 energy ultimates and acrids that bypass shields and continue to kill you after respawn for 20+ seconds.

If I talk about conclave 1.0 than I include always the code of honor.

That means no explosives, no reflex guards, no ultimates, no revives in a 2vs1, no downshooting in a 2vs1 (this is are just the most important points).

Edited April 11, 2015 by Feyangol

[Pythadragon]

If I talk about conclave 1.0 than I include always the code of honor.

That means no explosives, no reflex guards, no ultimates, no revives in a 2vs1, no downshooting in a 2vs1 (this is are just the most important points).

 

so it was broken and but 'fixed' by house rules that people may or may not follow.

 

through 'code of honor,' you were creating your own game. that is not what conclave 1.0 actually was.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Pythadragon

[Buzkyl]

If I talk about conclave 1.0 than I include always the code of honor.

That means no explosives, no reflex guards, no ultimates, no revives in a 2vs1, no downshooting in a 2vs1 (this is are just the most important points).

It still does not excuse that Conclave 1.0 was horribly broken and had so many issues with that arbitrary rules had to be made in an attempt to balance it. Not even by the staff even. Your code of conduct means nothing if i don't choose to follow it, what then?

 

2.0 is much better done and despite having it's issues it's a much better place than the wreck we had. If you find it's unbalance, have your own arbitrary rules for it to balance it yourself, just like the old one.

Edited April 11, 2015 by cozzi21

[Aggh]

How you said:

Abilities bring the ttk of the new conclave down to the level of the old conclave. So what is than the difference between old and new conclave, if it isn't the ttk? The old one has my mentioned points and the new one has ability spam. Let me guess which is more skillfull ... Yeah, it is the first one.

Note how I haven't said that 2.0 is any better.  Just that 1.0 was barely any better.  Saying that one broken mess of a game is better than another broken mess is pointless.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Aggh

[Swickyswock]

 

 

It still does not excuse that Conclave 1.0 was horribly broken and had so many issues with that arbitrary rules had to be made in an attempt to balance it. Not even by the staff even. Your code of conduct means nothing if i don't choose to follow it, what then?

 

2.0 is much better done and despite having it's issues it's a much better place than the wreck we had. If you find it's unbalance, have your own arbitrary rules for it to balance it yourself, just like the old one.

 

As of 11 Apr 2015 - 4:52 PM, I will disregard any new posts made within this thread as I continue to type the following response to you Cozzi21. Anyway, shall we begin?

 

"It still does not excuse that Conclave 1.0 was horribly broken and had so many issues with that arbitrary rules had to be made in an attempt to balance it. Not even by the staff even. Your code of conduct means nothing if i don't choose to follow it, what then?"

 

You are correct in the sense that the "Code of Honor" does not excuse any of the flaws that Conclave 1.0 had, but that's not necessarily the point Feyangol is trying to get you to understand. He actually seems to acknowledge that Conclave 1.0 has its share of flaws, heck he even somewhat admitted it by just saying that they followed a set of arbitrary rules. He's just simply stating that Conclave 2.0 has its flaws as well. Specifically mentioning that while Conclave 2.0 may be more balanced, it's still very underwhelming in some specific aspects that Conclave 1.0 had actually capitalized quite well on. Credit is really due to both of the gameplay modes honestly when you view this argument subjectively. I'm sure you're aware of this to some extent, but you sure do seem to lean quite heavily on the side of Conclave 2.0 still when really they're both just equal as they both have their ups and downs.

 

"2.0 is much better done and despite having it's issues it's a much better place than the wreck we had. If you find it's unbalance, have your own arbitrary rules for it to balance it yourself, just like the old one."

 

^ Exactly what I mean. You're really leaning on Conclave 2.0's side. Just think about the paragraph I wrote above for a while. Understand where these guys are coming from. They're literally just saying that Conclave 1.0 had some nice features that Conclave 2.0 didn't have. And I'm pretty sure we're all aware that Conclave 1.0 didn't have some nice features that Conclave 2.0 does have. We would have to be lying to ourselves in order to believe otherwise.

 

P.S. this post isn't only directed at Cozzi21. It's also loosely directed to the rest of people with the same mindset as him in this thread.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Pawsmack

[Auramaru]

I think the general idea from both sides is:

 

1) Conclave 1.0 was broken (agreed?).

1.5) Conclave 2.0 is also broken (agreed?).

2) The code of honor that players followed in Conclave 1.0 made it much less broken, but still disallowed for a substantial fan-base to build up around it due to the fact that it was only good if players followed the code of honor, also, the TTK could have been more balanced.

3) The current TTK in Conclave 2.0 is just as low as Conclave 1.0 due to the spammable abilities and melee (agreed?).

 

Moving along with the topic... I agree, Conclave 2.0 is just a spam fest. The TTK is the exact same as it was in Conclave 1.0, so long as people hit their shots (which I understand is a hefty condition to use in this context, but it was the same condition in Conclave 1.0)...

Edited April 11, 2015 by AuraMau

[rockscl]

personally, im tired of kogake, i dont mind eating a ground slam knock down or even a mag´s pull, but kogake is annoying, i cant think of any other game that would accept a spammable gap closer, that is controllable in mid of its translation, and also stuns the oponent for enough time to kill him with several aditional resources, just read the description and try to explain how is this thing acceptable in any competitive game

 

edit: and can be macroed without any punishment for doing so

Edited April 11, 2015 by rockscl

[-IlKenpachi-]

my advice is to use only primary or secondary weapons, only defensive skills (iron skin, frost bubble, mag's shield, Volt's shield) no spam skill, no spam meele with the second skill of volts (rex sol use it with bo! ! I saw this) no knockdown with kogake. I second this is necessary to play in a fun way

[Caobie]

one thing id like to point out as noone else has is that there are mods that help prevent knockdown and make you get up significantly faster if you do get knocked down. this does not stop the problem but does not reward the spammer with a free ground finisher on you unless latency is a factor. 

 

now then i do agree that knockdown and skill spam are a bit high especially where one team's overall 'skill' (read that as you will) outclasses the other even without spam. it just kinda snowballs one it starts. my only way i can think to help is to actually make stamina mean something and not be effectively only a sprint limiter. if we make stamina an actual limiting factor to coptering or slide attacks in general i think we'll see a major reduction in kogake spam or ridiculous copter caps in 5 seconds. as for powers well letting the enemy get enough energy to spam the crap outta their ults is part your teams fault for not controlling the energy better...later in a match i get thats hard since every point starts spawning 50 but still. i never played conclave 1.0 but i did participate in dark sector conflicts and if thats any indicator as to how it worked....im glad we have 2.0 over 1.0 flaws and all cause those conflicts were....well lets just say ash made it not fun....for either side and once one side started winning there was no way to push back really.

[.Talia.]

no spam meele with the second skill of volts (rex sol use it with bo! ! I saw this) 

Again people bashing me for playing the game with the tools i have been given. Just because i use broken stuff doesn't mean i don't want them fixed. Just look at my profile on my recent posts and you will see my opinion about abilities and melee in general in several topics. 

Fair Play worked when Conclavers were a tiny niche of a few hundred players. Now the whole player base is taking part in PvP you can't expect your opponents to follow some kind of fair play. Now its up to DE to balance the broken stuff. I won't hold back in order to ease the game for my opponents. 

Edited April 12, 2015 by RexSol

[Thalahssalyst]

Again people bashing me for playing the game with the tools i have been given

yes. people , was saying the same thing when they was insulted by using something that could before in the old conclave

[Pythadragon]

Well, if prephaps DE looked at pvp feedback and actually did something about it, those rules might have been permanent. Instead, after years of forgetting about conclave, they decided to totally remove it, not knowing players actually enjoyed it everyday, and replaced it with this. 

 

They instituted conclave with too much content to deal with and did a bad job at addressing it. It got shelved and then scrapped so that we have conclave 2.0 today.

 

Conclave 2.0 is smaller, more manageable, and DE has had regular balance tweaks each week. I personally perceive many of the the tweaks to be in response to player feedback, but of course I don't really know.

 

Likewise, I wonder how many regular conclave 1.0 players there were, and how many regular conclave 2.0 players there are currently?

 

I'd love to see DE chime in with some statistics about the mode popularity. It would be highly informative to us beyond who is currently discussing pvp in this sparsely populated forum. Statistics about who is playing and how many people are playing are what ultimately decides the success or failure of pvp modes in this game.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Pythadragon

[.Talia.]

Likewise, I wonder how many regular conclave 1.0 players there were, and how many regular conclave 2.0 players there are currently?

 

I'd love to see DE chime in with some statistics about the mode popularity. It would be highly informative to us beyond who is currently discussing pvp in this sparsely populated forum. Statistics about who is playing and how many people are playing are what ultimately decides the success or failure of pvp modes in this game.

 

Of course the new Conclave have much more players, there is no doubt about it. I think its pretty obvious that this new game mode was created to involve a bigger chunk of the player base, to be more accessible to everyone. There is no denying. But the truth is that DE ignored 1 year of feedback about PvP from the few players that actually played it, and this is what we got, less parkour on the maps, cheesy melee and abilities over guns.

Edited April 12, 2015 by RexSol

[-IlKenpachi-]

Again people bashing me for playing the game with the tools i have been given. Just because i use broken stuff doesn't mean i don't want them fixed. Just look at my profile on my recent posts and you will see my opinion about abilities and melee in general in several topics. 

Fair Play worked when Conclavers were a tiny niche of a few hundred players. Now the whole player base is taking part in PvP you can't expect your opponents to follow some kind of fair play. Now its up to DE to balance the broken stuff. I won't hold back in order to ease the game for my opponents. 

I do not want to blame, I said this because i'm sad to see a good player, be forced to make use of spamming melee. i always played vs lord noctus, Decado and other good player using the code of honor of the old pvp

Edited April 12, 2015 by Kenpachi_93