The 'tenno Are Energy' Theory Is Busted

[Jakcal]

I tried turning back all those pages, the first one was good until the next few ones with a whole load of walls of text which I have no idea what they're talking about. >_>

Flesh creatures confirmed.

[Xardis]

Both confirming we have flesh inside :O

 

That we are not made of lasers.

 

I regret everythingggggg

Uncertainty doesnt prove anything, we know that waframes have humans inside coz we have other sources of that info, those too doesnt prove anything.

still doesnt disprove that player tenno is just an oro like being that can inhabit different frames.

 

How they became that way? who knows- maybe some its some kind of Orokin tech. 

1st, Oro in pvp is a game mechanic so we cant use it as lore. If outside of the match Teshin said anything about it we could use it as lore. Edit: Apparently there is statment outside of PvP when Teshin says that Oro is the lifeforce of the Tenno. Ill update it when I find it.

 

2nd, its not actualy know but Orokin tech could have nothing to do with it. Orokin created Tenno as a weapon, they didnt wast a weapon to eveolve beyond them. I think that Tenno evolved into post human beings after the old war, maybe even after Lotus woke them up.

 

The Orokin could clone the mechanics of the "Powers" but not the connection to the Void, requiring Void-touched-soldiers to "drive" them.

Exacly the same here, frame requires body to operate, the body is the source of power for frames and the frame itself form the energy into abilities. Each frame form those abilities diffrentlyso thats why we have multitude of them and we have to search for cryopods to have those Void-touched-soldiers to operate the frames. I take this fact form game mechanic confirmed to be part of the lore. The Gradivus Dilemma is all about the Tenno in the cryopods.

Depends what you call an "energy spirit". Regardless of his popping in and out Void-Vor looks _very_ physical, If that is an energy form it is one that hard-patterned on his physicality from before. Other than the dis-corporation and survival, there isn't much separating his form from a real physical one (Even though it is an odd, split-in two one)

 

The usual touchstones of "energy" vs "physical"

 

1. Passing through solid objects

2. Visually appearing intangible

3. Shape-alteration

 

Don't appear to apply.

 

I'm not saying Void-Vor isn't "Energy" as he states, but if he is, it is a very specific and limited state compared to what you get in other stories when they talk of physical entities ascending into an energy form.

He looks physical in his physical form. Also those point didnt aply to my theory. Energy needs to be stored somwhere, it cannot just fly around. Cephalons prove it. They live in the relay and we can see tehm because they have systems to visualize themselves into the real world. Their face cannot do anything other than talk, It doesnt even look coz it has sensours all over the place.

 

 Again, ther acn be an energy being that lives as energy but can only interact and explore the world as physical manifestation.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Xardis

[Soju.]

^ *cough* Here be me theory topic *cough*

...

Well it's just another way to say give me more attention... *waiting until it gets move back to the General Discussion section*

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/506172-theory-tenno-are-snails/?p=5654910

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

^ *cough* Here be me theory topic *cough*

...

Well it's just another way to say give me more attention... *waiting until it gets move back to the General Discussion section*

 

That's never getting moved back.

[Morec0]

 

1st, oro in pvp is a game mechanic so we cant use it as lore. If outside of the match Tenshin said anything about it we could use it as lore.

 

2nd, its not actualy know but Orokin tech could have nothing to do with it. Orokin created Tenno as a weapon, they didnt wast a weapon to eveolve beyond them. I think that Tenno evolved into post human beings after the old war, maybe even after Lotus woke them up.

 

 

Calling HUGE BS on this first statement, Teshin specifically states that "Oro is the binding force for an enemy who, like the Tenno, can survive death" mean there ARE lore implications to it outside of the Conclave. I was more skeptical about Oro being what Tenno had back when it seemed the Void simply killed the Sentients, but now that we know they were able to overcome all but a minor part of that Flaw it seems likely they were able to use (at least in small dosages) whatever Oro is, meaning the Tenno themselves could have it as well.

 

Also going to have to disagree with your second point, as it implies changes that are not yet mentioned. Much like the "Two Tenno Types" theory, there's simply nothing to suggest anything changed about them since their creation in the Void Era, which causes any kind of post-Old War evolution to lack any kind of grounds to stand on.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Morec0

[Xardis]

Also going to have to disagree with your second point, as it implies changes that are not yet mentioned. Much like the "Two Tenno Types" theory, there's simply nothing to suggest anything changed about them since their creation in the Void Era, which causes any kind of post-Old War evolution to lack any kind of grounds to stand on.

Yes, there is not proof to my statement but its more like an opinion and it has 2 logic pillars:

1 - Tenno were created as a weapon. Orokin had to control them somehow and they were so some extent. It would be impossible if Tenno where energy back then. You cant control immortal being at higher level if you are not on the same level as it is.

2 - Mirage and Limbo died as we know from their quests. If they were energy back then they would be here to tell us their story.

 

Also timeline in Warframe is very unknown. We know of certain events like Old War and the end of Orokin Era, we also know that Tenno went into stasis. After that Lotus wakes the Tenno and we have events that leads to now. We dont know how much time has pased form each event to the next. Even the events in game arent sure. Alad V worked on Zanuka and then few months later from our perspective he works on infested. We dont know if it was a month of 2 years in game. Also gradivus dilemma was a week long event but we cant assume that it was a week in game. It takes time to take over a whole planet or the part of it. Clearing the Jupiter from infested also takes time. We also dont know how much time passed since Orokin send drones to Tau system to the time Sentints arrived and Old War startes. We dont know if first Tenno came from cryosleep centries before the others or only months. The point is that the time in Warframe is in majority of cases unknown and the speed in which technological advancments are made is accelerating. The evolution that I talk about could have taken only a few months or years.

[Morec0]

Yes, there is not proof to my statement but its more like an opinion and it has 2 logic pillars:

1 - Tenno were created as a weapon. Orokin had to control them somehow and they were so some extent. It would be impossible if Tenno where energy back then. You cant control immortal being at higher level if you are not on the same level as it is.

2 - Mirage and Limbo died as we know from their quests. If they were energy back then they would be here to tell us their story.

 

1 - They were a higher being, but they were still innately human. There's debate as to what the "First Dream" mentioned by Ordis and implied to exist by Lotus at the end of Natah might be. A theory I've considered in discussion with others is that this "First Dream" might refer to what the Tenno themselves think they are as opposed to what they actually are; that is to say the Orokin might have led them to believe they were great warrior gods of ancient civilizations, but in reality the Tenno were something far different, far less (or, perhaps, far more) than that.

 

The Tenno came from humans, were still subject to the flaws and faults of ego and personality, and in such a damaged state as they were - especially if they were still children (physically or mentally) due to stasis or simply had been allotted the time needed to consider what they were because of it - they would be open to all kinds of suggestions about what they were and what their purpose was.

 

2 - My answer to this is simple: no, they wouldn't have been. Energy requires some form of containment, or else it dissipates into the surrounding environment. I postulate that the Warframes, and the bodies they had before and after entering into the Void, act like this, a means of keeping them from being lost to reality.

 

In the case of Limbo and Mirage where those containers - their Warframes - were destroyed you then have this energy, these spirits, spreading out throughout the cosmos, unable to be bound together, getting thinner and thinner until, eventually, there's nothing meaningful left of them. The universe is infinite, the Tenno conciousness is not. All we have left is their Void shadow and a few scattered memories they provide.

 

For Vor the Janus key or perhaps the towers themselves are this container, leaving him able to refocus himself at some point after every "death" of his. There's also the possibility that the Void itself, being a realm VERY different from reality - seemingly a realm of energy itself - allows what Vor and the Tenno became to roam freely without issue. Of course, there's no real point to the Tenno doing this as they'd never be able to return to real-space while doing so, and potentially they couldn't interact with things in the nuance way they need to

- or perhaps even allow the Lotus to sense and guide us, given her nature-

in order to complete their missions while roaming free of their warrames.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Morec0

[Xardis]

I think that Tenno as a spirit never exits the Liset, Tenno consciousness only streaches itself into the frame. This containment is the Liset (not literaly but the electronics inside). Tenno cannot use Liset direcly, its a machine so its not compatible with Tenno mind. Thats why cephalons were created (at least liset butlers).

With that cleared out lets move to Vor. Void is filled with the energy but it is mindless. If you have infinite volume of water it doesnt matter how much you add other liquids, they will always disperse. Same with Vor, Janus and Tenno. They all need containers as you mentioned. For Vor and Janus it is the tower. Void isnt very diffrent from reality coz it is a realm within reality itself. All the laws of physics are the same. Void is the source of energy while space is filled with lack of it. In void there are towers made of normal matter. Janus (i suspect he is the Neural Sentry itself) and Vor live in the circuits of those towers but they cant control any intruder because there is no entry point other then turrets. Unless the intruders are linked with circuits, then you can dominate their minds and have them as an army. Vor is a part of that army, Janus allows Vor to control his body in exchange that Vor is totaly loyal to Janus. There might even not be an exchange coz Vor is now a part of Janus.

 

Tenno need containment for their mind and to interact with the real world they need proxy, a platform. As a spirit they are unable to interact physicly with the world. Same with cephalons, Lotus and Sentients. In void this applies too. You cant be as energy in void coz it will end the same as in space.

[Jakcal]

"In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed."

I'm not sure what you guys thought about that, but I assumed that it meant something like 'water turning into a dinosaur' kind of thing.

[Xardis]

"In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed."

I'm not sure what you guys thought about that, but I assumed that it meant something like 'water turning into a dinosaur' kind of thing.

I assumed that it warps the mind. You cant use logic when your understaing of it changes. Everything in void is identical as in the real world. All forces are the same.

If laws of physics would change we wouldnt get back from there in teh first place. Physic is very pomplicated and changing some paramiters even a tiny but would make Void unable tu support matter not to mention liveforms and machines.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Xardis

[Soju.]

That's never getting moved back.

Well I sent a ComMod a pm saying he/she will bring it up whenever he/she can. Plus it's 100% relevant to the game so even if it's not getting moved back to the General Discussion at least it's out of the Off Topic section.

[Jakcal]

I assumed that it warps the mind. You use logic when your understaing of it changes. Everything in void is identical as in the real world. All forces are the same.

If laws of physics would change we wouldnt get back from there in teh first place. Physic is very pomplicated and changing some paramiters even a tiny but would make Void unable tu support matter not to mention liveforms and machines.

That is false/true

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Well I sent a ComMod a pm saying he/she will bring it up whenever he/she can. Plus it's 100% relevant to the game so even if it's not getting moved back to the General Discussion at least it's out of the Off Topic section.

Tenno being snails is not at all relevant xD

[Xardis]

Tenno being snails is not at all relevant xD

I tend to agree. This is serious discussion and jokes like that arent very well suited here.

[Soju.]

Tenno being snails is not at all relevant xD

 

I tend to agree. This is serious discussion and jokes like that arent very well suited here.

Did you both even read what's inside instead of just ignoring it after reading the title? 

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Did you both even read what's inside instead of just ignoring it after reading the title? 

I did. I formed that statement after reading it.

[Soju.]

I did. I formed that statement after reading it.

Well then show me what you know about my theory, go on.

[Hypernaut1]

Well then show me what you know about my theory, go on.

Just let it go man. If you had such a great post, why dont you just make a new thread with a better title.

[Soju.]

Just let it go man. If you had such a great post, why dont you just make a new thread with a better title.

Because I don't want to be seen as a spammer, if they just read my title and ignore it and moves it to another subforum, and then create another one with basically the same content, that'd be a bad impression, no? Plus, I'm being patient and wait for them to give the word since he/she (ComMod) already said they'll bring it up when they can, if for some reason they already looked at my post and still decides not to move it (for whatever reasons), then wouldn't that make me a bother if I create another topic?

 

Though nowhere did I say it was a great theory, I'm just confident in it and want people to take a look at it and give me thoughts (thus why I want it in the Discussion section and not in Off Topic with some forum game topics, and no I'm not asking for thoughts like "Tenno aren't snails", because that's pure ignorant and obviously shows that they ignored my entire point), assuming something you don't know to someone doesn't really create a good impression neither.

Edited August 17, 2015 by AlphaWolf003

[Xardis]

Did you both even read what's inside instead of just ignoring it after reading the title? 

Yes and its very inconsistant. You dismiss changeing frames as game machanic with no lore atached. Why would we have quests for frames? Killing bosses to get frames is not a good proof IMO and I wont use it. I will use quests instead. Why would you build frames from the lore perspective? You cant dismiss is as game machanic now. From lore perspective we do it and you cant ignore the lore whenever you want.

 

The theory that doesnt defend itself in any way by ignoring one evidence and using another is a joke to me. Theory should take into account all eveidence and make use of them, this is the base of speculations. Not one fact but all.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Xardis

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Well then show me what you know about my theory, go on.

I'll just cut straight to the short version: Right at the end, Warframes are Warframes, Tenno are the operators inside the Warframes, not the Warframes themselves. Limbo and Mirage couldn't revive because A: Mirage disintegrated. B: Limbo made a miscalculated jump, and ended up in several different places.

[Morec0]

Quick Thoughts:

 

Vor's talk of him being "energy" may not actually reflect 100% what he now copmletely is, and him referring to himself as such is an exaggeration (yeah, yeah, "OMG Morec! You don't say!"), but rather now what is a core element of his being: that being Oro, or whatever Void-equivalent the Tenno have that allows them to survive death.

 

It's still a touch unclear if Oro is something the Tenno AND Sentients share - as the Sentients WITHOUT DOUBT use it but are known to be allergic to it (if only partially) so if it's Void energy that might cause them issues... Then again, the only ones we've seen use anything resembling Oro (the energy balls) are the drones, rather than the mother(imo, LITERALLY)ships. Personally, I think it's just those big motherships we saw that are able to give-birth to younger, smaller Sentients (think a Queen Bee or Ant) but that requires future information.

 

While that doesn't 100% help to explain the dissipation of his body and supposed ability of his to reform, it does help link him to what the Tenno became - which I think is a HUGE bit of insight we're meant to draw from him - while allowing him to maintain a physical form. Though, if the dissipation tells us anything, "physical" may be a poor choice of words to use.

 

As Vor once said "I know you are sour on mysticism, I have begun turning my gaze towards it". I think it may be IMPOSSIBLE to rationally explain what the Tenno are. They, like the Void, have become something in which science and reasons fails. A creature caught between matter and energy, in some kind of flux state that allows them to inhabit any shape Warframe no matter size or shape.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Morec0

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

-snip-

But the thing I don't get, why can Vor only take damage to the glowy bit, but we (and I presume the Sentients, but that remains to be seen) take damage anywhere?

[SilentMobius]

 Then again, the only ones we've seen use anything resembling Oro (the energy balls) are the drones, rather than the mother(imo, LITERALLY)ships. P

 

After looking at the trailer in HD I'm more of the opinion that the energy flares at the core of the Oculist-like sentients are not "balls" at all just "flares" nothing like the energy-ball in-between the halves of Void-Vor.

 

I'll have another look in my codex tonight

Edited August 17, 2015 by SilentMobius

[Blakrana]

But the thing I don't get, why can Vor only take damage to the glowy bit, but we (and I presume the Sentients, but that remains to be seen) take damage anywhere?

 

Perhaps it is that what Vor is is very...rudimentary. He's an arguably transient state consciousness with a body puppet for interaction purposes/manifestation or what have you.

 

Comparatively, the Warframes are explicitly designed to contain and amplify the Tenno and their 'affliction'. Now, Vor never had a fancy suit built around him, so the Janus Key (whatever the heck it is) is making do with what material it had; namely, his body. The Orokin on the other hand had their entire resource and research means. Frame is also a synonym for context, after all; this case, Tenno have 20+ different contexts for combat purposes they can utilise. Vor only has the context of himself.

 

So if the Tenno and Vor have similarities, the Tenno being fully encased by the Warframe means potentially a) They're more 'normal' than Vor, in terms of 'respond to stimuli like conventional humanoid' and b) Vor's not really that effective at true control of his state.

 

The Warframes then would be the only thing you can damage. The Chassis/shell/quarantine unit for whatever the manner of the occupant. Seeing as Vor isn't held in any sort of 'frame' in that manner, he's just ambient Vor. Lack of control/attachment to his technically dead body means a rather rudimentary existence. And that'd be before we break down the degree of symbiotic attachment potentially going on. Much like water in soil, it's hard to get the two out of each other without doing a lot of damage to the solution in the process.

 

I could probably put it clearer, but I think this makes some measure of sense.