The 'tenno Are Energy' Theory Is Busted

[SilverBones]

If you have a new title in mind, I'd like to hear it :P

 

How about;

 

Is the 'Tenno Are Energy' Theory Busted?

[PookieNumnums]

Many of you missed the part where vor talks about removing us from our metal wombs, and how taking us out of our suit pretty much renders the warframe useless .

The line about lotus lying to mirage and her smiling... It chokes me up every time .

Like I'm in a restaurant trying to wipe away tears... Embarrassing.

Mesa is the only empty warframe we fight which is controlled by the infestation that I assume our frames are partially composed of.

Other than that we get puroto rainodesu which has no tenno but is very much alive

This is why I believe they are a living symbiotic prosthesis

As for the zariman kids... We know they were held in stasis and have some link to the warframe biosuits because when it gets within range of the stasis prison it becomes conscious as though a sleeping in stasis zariman kid is somehow using it or seeing through it.

To assume the zariman kids are not what became tenno is to ignore all context clues and display an utter disregard for basic literary technique

C'mon peoples

[PookieNumnums]

If we don't wear the suits then I'm going with some sort of mind link matrix chair piloted from the orbiter type control system

I do prefer multitenno ideals however

[arch111]

Once again the conundrum that is the lack of a Lore-section, rears it's head and pokes the devs.

*poke*

Who decides the hierarchy of the Forum?

[BaneOfOrion]

i do

[(PSN)Lun-Sei]

Many of you missed the part where vor talks about removing us from our metal wombs, and how taking us out of our suit pretty much renders the warframe useless .

The line about lotus lying to mirage and her smiling... It chokes me up every time .

Like I'm in a restaurant trying to wipe away tears... Embarrassing.

Mesa is the only empty warframe we fight which is controlled by the infestation that I assume our frames are partially composed of.

Other than that we get puroto rainodesu which has no tenno but is very much alive

This is why I believe they are a living symbiotic prosthesis

As for the zariman kids... We know they were held in stasis and have some link to the warframe biosuits because when it gets within range of the stasis prison it becomes conscious as though a sleeping in stasis zariman kid is somehow using it or seeing through it.

To assume the zariman kids are not what became tenno is to ignore all context clues and display an utter disregard for basic literary technique

C'mon peoples

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

A LOT of dialogues in the game make it extremely clear that the Warframe is a symbiotic tech exosuit which the tenno, who is or at least was human, is wearing.

 

We might discuss about wether the tenno can take off the Warframe suit or if they're in such a symbiosis they became one with it. But we CAN'T discuss wether there's flesh inside the Tenno - because anyone who paid any attention to the dialogue would already know that.

[PookieNumnums]

No one is gonna call me crybaby?

The little lore we have does contain some pretty big feels I'll give em that.

Edited June 13, 2015 by T4LCOMX

[HalfDarkShadow]

That was Mirage warframe without Tenno. Like in Rhino prime codex. Warframes were Orokin experiments with technocryte. They behaive like a beast (rhino) are mentally unstable (mirage) on their own without Tenno control.

Oh yes, that completely slipped my mind! My apologizes, thanks for the correction!

[PookieNumnums]

It was mesa. No where was mirage without tenno as far as I can remember

[BaneOfOrion]

again and again,the suit could be bonded to a meat puppet that is crafted along withe the warframe. this has been discussed at length. really there is evidence to support any number of arguments, mostly because DE seems to want to keep their options open. you say tenno bleed, i say manufactured organs, you say twisted few, i say they were the originals, not the current ones, we could keep at this forever.

[HalfDarkShadow]

Exactly.

 

A LOT of dialogues in the game make it extremely clear that the Warframe is a symbiotic tech exosuit which the tenno, who is or at least was human, is wearing.

 

We might discuss about wether the tenno can take off the Warframe suit or if they're in such a symbiosis they became one with it. But we CAN'T discuss wether there's flesh inside the Tenno - because anyone who paid any attention to the dialogue would already know that.

 

Ever since Steve in one of the devstreams mentioned that the closest thing he's heard was that their just brain's being moved from suit to suit, I'd like to think we're actually this:

 

Edited June 13, 2015 by HalfDarkShadow

[Urlan]

Of course if we were simply computerized memories, I am pretty sure that a faction which can take over high technology wouldn't have had a problem with us. I see it as the Children of Zariman are the precusor or original Tenno, the beast in Rhino Prime's entry to be an infested that the Rhino suit is in turn based on / harvested from, and the Warframes themselves infested exoskeleton suits worn by void radiation emanating humans who supply energy to fuel the infested biology of the warframe and fuel its mutation related powers. The Orokin were supposed to be pretty advanced scientifically but moved more to infested and Void research as high tech means failed against a foe that could turn science against its masters. I think that the infested and bioresearch in general was what was turned to before in the end, Tenno and warframes were used. It would be interesting to see how DE intends to go with Warframe's background; I singularly hope though, that it will not become as muddled as other settings I enjoy like Warhammer 40K.

[HalfDarkShadow]

It was mesa. No where was mirage without tenno as far as I can remember

Nono, he was referring to where the origin of certain frames (Rhino and Mirage in this case) came from. I think Mirages case is a bit more implied, but with Rhino's entry, igo explains;

Warframes were Orokin experiments with technocryte. They behaive like a beast (rhino) are mentally unstable (mirage) on their own without Tenno control.

Mesa's empty suit was just being controlled by Alad V's infested experiment stuff. Not entirely relevant lol.

It's been confirmed based on a few codex entry's, in some form or fashion, how the Tenno-controlled Warframes came to be.

Edited June 13, 2015 by HalfDarkShadow

[PookieNumnums]

Nono, he was referring to where the origin of certain frames (Rhino and Mirage in this case) came from. I think Mirages case is a bit more implied, but with Rhino's entry, igo explains;

Mesa's empty suit was just being controlled by Alad V's infested experiment stuff. Not entirely relevant lol.

It's been confirmed based on a few codex entry's, in some form or fashion, how the Tenno-controlled Warframes came to be.

Plenty of hive mind like eggs point to tcyte infection

Hayden tenno too

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

How about;

 

Is the 'Tenno Are Energy' Theory Busted?

Hmm... Better than anything I could think of!

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

If we don't wear the suits then I'm going with some sort of mind link matrix chair piloted from the orbiter type control system

I do prefer multitenno ideals however

Even though Mono-Tenno theory is basically confirmed...

[vaugahn]

Also the way the human 'mind' is held in those electronic singals in the brain is not yet fully understood. We (as in humans in the 21st century) have only just grasped how to render and copy the brain of a much less developed species; namely a millimeter-long worm with only 302 neurons in it's body. (http://www.iflscience.com/technology/worms-mind-robot-body).

 

It is theorized that within our lifetimes we may be able to copy the human mind into a digital format. That alone is a scary concept. Now imagine technology thousands of years in advance of our own. The idea of the human mind being transplanted into a biological construct that bleeds, dies, heals, murders, jumps, breaks and starves of oxygen is not so crazy a thought, considering we are most of the way of being able to biologically 'print' new organs.

 

If you guys haven't done so yet, I highly suggest reading a tabletop RPG setting (if you are into that kind of thing) called Eclipse Phase. Tenno Transhumanism would make a hell of a lot more sense if the void somehow turned the Tenno conciousness into self-sustaining patterns of energy that can transplant themselves into hollow constructs, hell even other biological beings capable of holding their power.

 

It's been a while since I've played Eclipse Phase, but isn't the resleeving process partly physical? I recall it involved nanobots restructuring the brain of the morph to match the ego being put into it. 

 

The electrical energy in our brains doesn't actually hold our thoughts, it's just analog signals passed from neuron to neuron. The specific neural pathways are what create our thoughts.

 

Given that the player is a single tenno, and each tenno is treated as its own independent creature, I think the frame switching process is (to use a most likely mangled Eclipse Phase example) less like egocasting and more like moving around a cortical stack. The tenno is a physical entity able to switch bodies at will, or perhaps even able to alter the shape of its own body. That's where I think the Technocyte connection comes in, it's been hinted that the tenno are infected, and we know Technocyte allows for some very radical manipulation of flesh, so it's possible the tenno are able to reshape their bodies to fit different frames.

 

At least, that's my theory.

[SilverBones]

It's been a while since I've played Eclipse Phase, but isn't the resleeving process partly physical? I recall it involved nanobots restructuring the brain of the morph to match the ego being put into it. 

 

The electrical energy in our brains doesn't actually hold our thoughts, it's just analog signals passed from neuron to neuron. The specific neural pathways are what create our thoughts.

 

Given that the player is a single tenno, and each tenno is treated as its own independent creature, I think the frame switching process is (to use a most likely mangled Eclipse Phase example) less like egocasting and more like moving around a cortical stack. The tenno is a physical entity able to switch bodies at will, or perhaps even able to alter the shape of its own body. That's where I think the Technocyte connection comes in, it's been hinted that the tenno are infected, and we know Technocyte allows for some very radical manipulation of flesh, so it's possible the tenno are able to reshape their bodies to fit different frames.

 

At least, that's my theory.

 

In Eclipse Phase, you could reside as a disembodied program, or take the form of a drone with no biological parts whatsoever. The digitized personality was no different than software, just highly advanced and complex. Perhaps that is the huge leap that the Orokin could not explain. Energy capable of holding thoughts, emotions and states without the need of physical markers.

 

I think the infested technocyte are a genetic legacy that uses a similar foundation, but are functionally different than the biological ingredients to the Warframes. Bear in mind that the Warframes came into being after the Infested had failed as a weapon against the Sentients.

 

Granted, the Warframes were weapons of desperation, but I highly doubt they would try to use the same infested genetics when it already failed. A variations perhaps or something functionally immune to the infestation as it is today? Who knows?

 

Metaphors aside, it makes sense that the Tenno were somehow not bound to a physical form. Be it through the transplant of some physical device or by energy jumping from body to body, nothing about Transhuman Tenno goes against what we see in game or is established thus far.

 

Are the Tenno energy? Debatable. Personally I think so, but not in the sense that they are just disembodied. I am thinking more along the lines of something new and twisted. Demons of the Void indeed.

 

Are they human as we know humanity to be now? No. I think it’s safe to say that the time of humanity is long since gone in the Warframe World.

[Cynaris]

Saying that "energy can't smile" is rather hilarious to me though.

 

As most fan-interpretations of various lore. 

Most of them are so far fetched, I can't help but laugh.

[vaugahn]

In Eclipse Phase, you could reside as a disembodied program, or take the form of a drone with no biological parts whatsoever. The digitized personality was no different than software, just highly advanced and complex. Perhaps that is the huge leap that the Orokin could not explain. Energy capable of holding thoughts, emotions and states without the need of physical markers.

 

I think the infested technocyte are a genetic legacy that uses a similar foundation, but are functionally different than the biological ingredients to the Warframes. Bear in mind that the Warframes came into being after the Infested had failed as a weapon against the Sentients.

 

Granted, the Warframes were weapons of desperation, but I highly doubt they would try to use the same infested genetics when it already failed. A variations perhaps or something functionally immune to the infestation as it is today? Who knows?

 

Metaphors aside, it makes sense that the Tenno were somehow not bound to a physical form. Be it through the transplant of some physical device or by energy jumping from body to body, nothing about Transhuman Tenno goes against what we see in game or is established thus far.

 

Are the Tenno energy? Debatable. Personally I think so, but not in the sense that they are just disembodied. I am thinking more along the lines of something new and twisted. Demons of the Void indeed.

 

Are they human as we know humanity to be now? No. I think it’s safe to say that the time of humanity is long since gone in the Warframe World.

 

Well as I understood the OpenWorm project, they're actually using the software to simulate neural pathways (which is awesome, by the way) and essentially building a virtual brain. A cyberbrain works the same way in Eclipse Phase, it's a digital/synthetic mimic of a biological brain.

 

It's highly possible that the tenno can live in a incorporeal state, much like an ego from Eclipse Phase, but given that the barracks in a dojo are full of cryopods some physical form seems to be the preferred body. In addition to that, the inherent dangers in wearing a warframe such as being killed in the field or through an accident as seen in the Mirage and Limbo quests seem to indicate they're not able to jump away from their shell at will, which reads to me as a more physical sort of controlling presence. Whether this is through the brain-in-a-jar method or some other way I'm not sure, but the tenno definitely seem to be "in" their warframes.

 

As for the Technocyte connection: in Dark Sector the Technocyte virus can create a type of flesh that is both metallic and organic at the same time, It seems to be a form of living metal, tough like armor but able to move and grow like flesh. This seems to be true as well in the Warframe universe, as we see Technocyte flesh forming structurally significant parts of spaceships in the infested Corpus tileset, which suggests that type of flesh is unnaturally strong. The Orokin couldn't use classical technology against the Sentients, so building powered armor suits out of armorflesh wouldn't be a bad idea. 

 

And on that last statement, I fully agree. There are no homo sapiens sapiens left in the Origin system, and it's likely been that way for a very long time. 

[Urlan]

I don't feel that the infested were a failed weapon against the Sentients, I think that warframes are simply a branch of that research with the wildcard being combining the warframes derived from infested subjects to the Childen of Zariman. Note that Lephantis was a bioweapon made late in the old war but never used, why would they pour more resources into a failure? I think personally, that if it weren't for the infested test subject escaping and chasing those researchers to the room containing the Children of Zariman, that we would be hearing about the game world through an infested hive mind about how the Infested saved everyone from the Sentient menace.

 

While DE_Steve did jokingly say that the farthest they've gone on the subject was that there was both one Tenno per player, and that he thought of the Tenno as more 'Brains in a Jar' we don't really yet have a definate example of what a Tenno is. I personally do not think we are energy, but believe we are humanoids in suits; still it would be interesting to get more background entries that put the issue to rest.

[Blakrana]

As for the Technocyte connection: in Dark Sector the Technocyte virus can create a type of flesh that is both metallic and organic at the same time, It seems to be a form of living metal, tough like armor but able to move and grow like flesh. This seems to be true as well in the Warframe universe, as we see Technocyte flesh forming structurally significant parts of spaceships in the infested Corpus tileset, which suggests that type of flesh is unnaturally strong. The Orokin couldn't use classical technology against the Sentients, so building powered armor suits out of armorflesh wouldn't be a bad idea. 

 

What about the Corrupted Lore piece, whereby it seems to suggest the 'essence' (for lack of a better word) of Rembella was basically 'immortalised' in the Infestation despite being very dead.

 

Following on from that then, could it factor into the whole 'wearing' aspect? Whether the Tenno have a preferred biological base body or not, a 'receptive' armour would fit well with the Affinity aspect, whether that's 'symbiotic' or akin to a really advanced localised neural network. Whatever the Tenno are, I think we're all familiar enough with the general benefits associated with 'Smart-link' kind of equipment.

 

Sort of like Space Marine Power Armour in 40K, the Technocyte 'consciousness retention traits' (if it can be harnessed) serving like the Black Carapace as well?

 

I'm sure I've seen SilentMobius discussing the 'Technocyte as energy medium' before now, in regards to very early streams. Void and Neural analogues perhaps?

[vaugahn]

 

What about the Corrupted Lore piece, whereby it seems to suggest the 'essence' (for lack of a better word) of Rembella was basically 'immortalised' in the Infestation despite being very dead.

 

Following on from that then, could it factor into the whole 'wearing' aspect? Whether the Tenno have a preferred biological base body or not, a 'receptive' armour would fit well with the Affinity aspect, whether that's 'symbiotic' or akin to a really advanced localised neural network. Whatever the Tenno are, I think we're all familiar enough with the general benefits associated with 'Smart-link' kind of equipment.

 

Sort of like Space Marine Power Armour in 40K, the Technocyte 'consciousness retention traits' (if it can be harnessed) serving like the Black Carapace as well?

 

I'm sure I've seen SilentMobius discussing the 'Technocyte as energy medium' before now, in regards to very early streams. Void and Neural analogues perhaps?

 

Yeah, I've speculated that a controlled Technocyte infection in the tenno could serve as a mechanism to interface with the warframe. Warframes could possibly even have nervous systems and other organs of their own. There would be big benefits to the surface of a warframe being sensate at the very least, and I'd argue the crazy kung-fu moves we can pull would require some degree of sensation. 

 

Of course, I think that what happened in the corrputed ancient lore was less of an immortalisation of Remballa's "essence" but more an example of the infestation being able to reproduce biological material it's assimilated down to the DNA level. 

[Blakrana]

Yeah, I've speculated that a controlled Technocyte infection in the tenno could serve as a mechanism to interface with the warframe. Warframes could possibly even have nervous systems and other organs of their own. There would be big benefits to the surface of a warframe being sensate at the very least, and I'd argue the crazy kung-fu moves we can pull would require some degree of sensation.

 

Certainly seems plausible.

 

And the warframes having their own biological traits would help justify why each has differing Health and what not, when the same Tenno uses it. The Tenno is arguably only relevant in so far as they may or may not be more versed with a given frame...and even then, it has to be a particular frame. Mastering an Ash does not make a Tenno a master of all Ash frames, after all.

 

A curious but plausible aspect; expanding on the Eclipse Phase comparison, it would be akin to your specialised Morphs for varying tasks. Rhino needs the augmented armour and shield (but not health?) compared to say, Loki, who shaves off health and shield for increased speed and energy reserves.

[vaugahn]

Certainly seems plausible.

 

And the warframes having their own biological traits would help justify why each has differing Health and what not, when the same Tenno uses it. The Tenno is arguably only relevant in so far as they may or may not be more versed with a given frame...and even then, it has to be a particular frame. Mastering an Ash does not make a Tenno a master of all Ash frames, after all.

 

A curious but plausible aspect; expanding on the Eclipse Phase comparison, it would be akin to your specialised Morphs for varying tasks. Rhino needs the augmented armour and shield (but not health?) compared to say, Loki, who shaves off health and shield for increased speed and energy reserves.

 

A theory that gets tossed around a lot is the Exarch theory, where the frame influences the personality of the tenno wearing it, based off previous or the original tenno of that type. This also fits into the general comparison with a morph, as I recall different morphs having different effects on the personality of whoever's in it.