Proposed Starchart Changes [Megathread]

[Dawn11715]

Im gonna like it if it will be like syndicate missions: everyday a new way to get what you want (rep in their case).

This will prevent repetitivnes from the start, or at least it is meant to do so.

[DrCrawford]

I'm all for this change honestly, how many nodes are there? How many do I run? maybe 5% of them

 

no reason to have all the extra clutter

[evafan002]

if you do this DE thats it i am out taking nodes away? thats fine. making what map and mission types are available random? think again

[Kayblis]

There is no grindwall if you cannot grind :^)

[bob6784558]

I know we are discussing the 300 nodes to 20, but what do you think about this change?

 

There may be time-based instances, such as Vor appearing temporarily, dropping different things each time

Similar to Alerts, but hopefully not something that punishes players for sleeping

There will be some removal of player choice - you will no longer be able to select whichever mission type you want, whenever you want; hopefully this will be better for the game overall".

 

 

>Never mind<

Edited May 9, 2015 by bob6784558

[Alphafox]

I really ask myself if they have a  ''bad idea pot'' where they pick bad ideas and release them into the game.

[tocorro]

Restricting my choices even further ? .... Nope, don't like that idea.

Condensing 300 nodes into 20 means all dark sectors, archwing and boss missions will be RNG based ?

If so then this will only add another layer of RNG into the game.

DE's promise was : Year of quality and also to relieve us of too much RNG.

Let's say You want a T4 Sab key and they only drop on specific Interception missions, for the sake of discussion let's say that they are on 2 nodes.

Now If daily You will get 20 nodes with RNG based mission types (boss, dark sector, archwing included) then please enlighten me aproximately how long will You need to wait to get a chance to play an Interception mission that could yield You a T4 sab key ?

Even if rewards will be buffed, how slim is the chance for player getting what he wants ?

Really eager to hear some more from DE. :) 

 

Lil bit of math.

 

Assumption still the same :

Let's add some story to it : Awesome new Trinity Prime just came out, and her BP is available in T4 sab. Unfortunately You are out of T4 sab keys, and need to "farm" them. To get T4 sab key You need to play Interception mission, and for the sake of calculation let's say there are 2 nodes with Interception mission, that will grant You a chance for T4 sab.

 

- getting at least 1 mission node that You want in 20 nodes available daily

 

       (20)    n!          20!             20*19!   20

|A| = (   ) = ---------- = ------------- = --------- = --- = 20

       ( 1)     k! (n-k)!  1! (20-1)!    1*19!      1

 

 

- 2 nodes that interest You in 300 overall

 

        (300)   n!           300!            300*299*298!   300*299

|O| = (     ) = ---------- = -------------- = ------------------- = ------------ = 44850

        ( 2  )    k! (n-k)!   2! (300-2)!   2*1*298!          2

 

- Probability of playing the node You want to play "today"

 

          |A|      20

P(A) = ----- = --------- = ~0.0004

          |O|     44850

 

Now P(A) = 1 is 100% chance of playing what U want, to get a chance for the key

 

IF so, then You will have 0.04% chance daily to play one of the two nodes that have the T4 sab key.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong cause I haven't done something like this in ~15 years ;)

Edited May 9, 2015 by tocorro

[Z123FFSS89]

from what i received from the devstream it sounds like we're just going to be getting a bunch of alerts that may be weekly...if so i love this idea. there's only 2 nodes i play daily besides void and ods so to me it makes sense.

[ThePresident777]

 

New Starchart

• Hoping to appear in U17

• 300 nodes are being condensed to 20 nodes

• There may be time-based instances, such as Vor appearing temporarily, dropping different things each time

• Similar to Alerts, but hopefully not something that punishes players for sleeping

• There will be some removal of player choice - you will no longer be able to select whichever mission type you want, whenever you want; hopefully this will be better for the game overall

• Re-viewing player made quests again and designing the starchart so that these will be able to fit into it; hopefully this will be the answer to players that resent the removal of choice

 

(tehgreg, this is not directed at you.  I'm just quoting your info to respond to the info you provided.)

 

Why stop there?  How about every time we press the Warframe icon on our gaming machines we get a random game start up instead?  That's what a great idea this is.

 

Or how about the next time we buy plat, we randomly buy zen, rubles, corn starch, play sand, kitty litter,.......?  That's what a great idea it is to deny players the game play they want when they want it.

 

Some removal of choice?  Like nightmare mode?  No one plays NM for fun, just for the mods, then they're done, because they can never get the challenge they want when they want it. 

 

A big part of fun is getting the activity you want when you want it.  It seemed to be a part of the new Star Chart 2.0 goals:  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CD3rp_yWEAELtfq.jpg:large

 

I originally though positively about Star Chart 2.0.   But, now that I see that it is RNGesus 2.0, it sucks totally.  We may as well have macros play the game for us.  All hail RNGesus!

 

0)  "Every UI element I see is relevant to me." 

 

Except it's not because the mission we want when we want it will be denied to us and instead we'll get what we don't want when we don't want it.  We know the statement refers to UI elements.  But there is nothing inherently relevent about any UI element.  What is relevant is what the UI element enables.  Relevance is a personal choice, which the new Star Chart RNGesus 2.0 will crap all over. 

 

1)  "The game is presenting a clear goal for me every day."

 

Clearly, today is not a good Warframe day, because the goals suck today.  Better luck next time.

 

2)  "I see a call to action.  Something that tells me why I am fighting."

 

And it was boring so we found something else to do.  Maybe we'll check back later.

 

3) "I can continue to work towards something I want."

 

Like a zombie farmer, game play be damned.  Do we really want this?

 

4)  "I can see possible rewards and challenges...."

 

But, no interesting game play.  Maybe next time.  Maybe not.

 

5)  "Even when I'm seeking a single reward, I can see a variety of locations and enemies."

 

But, no game play worth our time.

 

6)  "It feels like the world is alive, like a story is happening from an ecosystem."

 

Then an asteroid crashes and a mass extinction occurs.  The populace flees to a more reliable and pleasant activity.

 

7)  "Finding people to play with is as easy as joining a mission.  There are no ghost towns."

 

Nobody here but us macros.  Farm on.

 

8)  "I make choices that matter to me.  And cast a vote into the ecosystem."

 

No good missons today.  Moving on.

 

 

All hail RNGesus!

 

EDIT:  And how are we supposed to match make for the misisons we really want when they are keyed missions?  That's another long unresolved problem that's about to get worse.

Edited May 10, 2015 by ThePresident777

[SJunior]

I'm all for this change except for the random selection part of it.

 

That sounds pretty bogus if you ask me.

 

But condensing the node count I'm all for. 20 seems about right because in all honesty that amount or less is how many people tend to play regularly. (Let's be honest, it's much fewer than 20.)

 

And it'll make it more welcoming to new players, which is always a good thing.

[vomder]

More RNG, is anyone really surprised? This is the year of quality after all! Player choice is overrated! RNG should also be added to the following. Which frame, weapons, and companions we use each time we log in. Oh and don't for get which gear we can use too. And what about which syndicates while we are at it. You working for Suda? To bad here is New Loka missions instead! What about build times for stuff in the foundry. Just imagine the possibilities!

[(PSN)Arrow_Temper]

I feel as though there is validation behind the proposed new system for the solar chart, however the limitation of the current community variety of node selection is not a idea that I am in favor of.

 

Reasons why?

1. I believe this forces the community to play with a reduced amount of content.

2. The amount of purposed nodes is extremely low (As considered the amount of Dark Sectors currently in game would match if not outnumber standard nodes.)

3. There would need to be a balance considering mastery rank experience and the amount of nodes reduction.

 

I believe that while the old solar chart was old fashion, but it was user friendly compared to the current in game star chart system. With the proper reworks and mechanic improvements this system could be highly beneficial to a new gamer's Warframe experience.    

[Issxi]

It seems more like they are cutting content and putting time restrictions on missiontypes.

 

How will we be able to find those specific nodes to farm resources we need or level our gear DE?

 

I'd rather they kept the planets and just had one node for each mission type on each planet, and maintaining planet specific tilesets.

 

Otherwise, we won't be able to play the new Underwater Lab tileset unless it per chance shows up as a playable mission for a time.

Edited May 9, 2015 by DarkD3filer

[xozzy19x]

The RNG is strong with this one

but in all seriousness Im not really sure how I feel, it may end up interesting or its going to blow up in DE´s face...

Ill just wait and see how it works....

Ill start buying popcorn in case it goes downhill XD

Edited May 9, 2015 by xozzy19x

[The_Traitor_Executioner]

Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, kills my interest in a game more effectively than not being able to pursue the goal I want to pursue.

 

I'd like to relate this to another game: Payday 2. I'm sure some of you have played it, because I've seen it referenced. Payday 2 is one of my most regretted purchases ever.

 

There are all sorts of problems with it, but what really made me hate it was the mission select. You were given a selection of missions, or "jobs", that were randomly selected. If the one you wanted to play wasn't there, well then #$@ you. You can reload the game and hope it comes up, play a mission you don't want to play and hope it comes up afterward, or play a different game entirely. Ultimately, we were so sick of not being able to play the game on our terms that we all resolved to never buy another Overkill game. We just don't trust them not to go out of their way to ruin our experience. In fact, it was such a poor experience that none of us trust Goldfarb's new company either.

 

If they make it so appealing to shut off Warframe and play something else, we will. Then it will become habit to ditch Warframe when we don't find the mission we want. Then we'll question why we'd want to start Warframe at all and just go straight to other games. Then Warframe won't even come up in discussions of what we might want to play.

 

Or, y'know, use the contract broker that's in the game specifically for that reason.

[Censium]

 I say let's actually get our hands on it, and then provide feedback.

[Gauron]

I'm just waiting for Warframe to become a slot machine where armory, mission, etc. are all randomized.

[Feallike]

Literally the only downside to this change is resource farming. The DE only needs to do that right and its a success. :/

 

Limits player choice?: How???? I mean we have 200 nodes, how many of those 200 nodes do you use? Is having 20 nodes that everyone use worse than having 200 nodes that no one uses?

 

Time wall?:  Why is this a bad idea? We already have time based alerts. Soooo what is that different from what vore will do in the new system??? I mean Phorid already does this. 

 

Reduced content?: Uhm... no, you will still have all those tilesets. Just less "Missions" or filler content to mess around with. :/

 

Less mastery: DE confirmed same amount of mastery.

 

Worse Gameplay: H O W. Please tell me how this makes the game worse? Please explain what about having less nodes reduces gameplay? :/

Edited May 9, 2015 by Feallike

[DiabolusUrsus]

Leave it to DE to skip over the simple and efficient fixes in favor of radical and ultimately unreasoned methods of tackling a problem?

 

Oh, people only ever play on a few select nodes? LET'S MAKE IT SO THEY ONLY HAVE A FEW SELECT NODES TO PLAY ON! :D

 

I was opposed from the first transition from the star-chart to the arrangement of planets we have now because it destroyed the sense of scale the star-chart gave me. This is making things even worse.

 

Randomized tilesets? Randomized enemies? Randomized levels? The last thing Warframe needed was more RNG-dictated gameplay. Now we'll be unable to:
- Seek out particular tilesets to enjoy the atmosphere.

- Avoid particular tilesets we don't enjoy.

- Hunt down specific enemies (which Simaris recently added as an overarching objective).

- Stay within a strict level-range comfort zone for new gear.

 

It would be more efficient and beneficial to establish a functioning progression system so that DE can introduce proper difficulty scaling in accordance with how powerful the player currently is. 

[InFlames]

Do guys ever actually play the game? Farming is NECCESARY to get ahead.

I'm not gonna lie and say i never played it, but I never played it more then once every 3 days. 

There's people that don't get outta that place. I'm mastery 18 and i leveld most of my weapons on casual gameplay. Not in Draco.

[Uzpian]

 I say let's actually get our hands on it, and then provide feedback.

^

 

I don't know about you guys but I would rather wait and see if this new system's yay or nay.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I'm not gonna lie and say i never played it, but I never played it more then once every 3 days. 

There's people that don't get outta that place. I'm mastery 18 and i leveld most of my weapons on casual gameplay. Not in Draco.

You've also been playing for slightly more than 2 years.

 

^

 

I don't know about you guys but I would rather wait and see if this new system's yay or nay.

This is one of the many times where we DON'T need to. Unless they have MORE information (which would be ENTIRELY relevant to this discussion), we KNOW how this is gonna turn out. It's just like the purposed exp 2.0 that the community shot down quite awhile ago (where leaching was ENCOURAGED by the system.)

 

This is a chance to stop something bad from happening, just like then. I'm all for cutting down on the amount of nodes we have, but not to this extent. There's a not-so-fine line between "Varied amount of missions per planet" and "barren as F***".

Edited May 9, 2015 by KvotheTheArcane1

[InFlames]

You've also been playing for slightly more than 2 years.

 

Pretty much since the game started. But that doesn't make a difference. Pretty much the other way around, been here long enough for that. Didn't try and get to mastery 18 in a month.

 

edit: typo

Edited May 9, 2015 by Mr.Pava

[Tsukinoki]

I have similar concerns about this.
Though its more to do with how we will get to certain enemies, etc.

Any drops that require an enemy that only commonly spawns on one tile set (such as normal seekers mainly spawn in Ceres MDs as common enemies and are rare as all hek anywhere else).,
If you want crushing ruin, or the river blue pigment, you're going to have to be hoping and praying that one of the available nodes is a map type that has decent spawns of them.  Otherwise you'll be left sitting there and twidling your thumbs with no chance to get that mod.

Or think if you're doing pigment runs against a certain enemy, such as an Arid Eviscerator, so you want to do endless missions on phobos so you can actually get more than three or four per map, but there are no missions available for phobos that are grineer missions.  Now you're just SOL with absolutely no way to progress in the pigments.

The main reasons to play the different nodes on the different planets is so that you can actually get a decent spawn rate of some of the enemies.
Without that possibility it can really hurt the ability to get some mods or pigments or scans.  And depending on how it is it could prevent progress completely for however long it takes for the right node type with the right tile-set to become available.

And I dont want to think how annoying it could be to try to farm for Neural Sensors, Neurodes or Orokin cells if there are no nodes of the right type.
Think of going "Oh, I just need some Neural Sensors to build this weapon..." and then checking the chart and finding no nodes on Jupiter.  And then you're left with hoping that the game makes a Jupiter node available during a time you can play.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Tsukinoki

[CelticMoss]

Battlefront is getting flame for 12 maps now let's put it at 20 and in a grinding game.