Update 7.11.0: Vauban!

[Doforcash]

Final skill look alot like this

 

  (0:44)

 

I LIKE IT, SUCK THEY SOUL ALL THE WAY TO HELL 

[HotStrica]

So now Ember got the same ability as Rhino and it deals AOE damage ... Trinity is invincible with almost endless energy, let the poor Rhino alone, all he had is Iron skin.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

About the new market (which I still think was a bad idea, mind you)

 

With everything being moved to blueprints and needing sometimes obscene amount of resources (550 alloy plate for a Boar :/) maybe it was done for Update 8's clan thing? I do believe they mentioned several times about resource trading.

 

Not that I think it's a good idea, just a thought, please don't destroy me.

WOAH 550 alloy plates? thats... an absurd amount imo. I kinda wanted to try it out, wish I had bought it before the update :/

[Kashaan]

My thoughts on this update:

 

Loving the bug fixes. Especially the glaive-specific ones. The glaive has been in the "fun but kinda buggy" category for me since I picked it up a few days ago, and I'm glad to see the latter half of that sentence chopped off.

 

While most of the weapons in the market being ported over to blueprints doesn't impact me overly much--I've been playing the game long enough that I have the know-how and gear necessary to grind, and I don't mind the wait times--I do agree that it will negatively impact the experience for new players. A quick trip through the market shows that the only weapons a new player will be able to acquire via credits--i.e., the only resource available in a reasonable time frame for new players--is limited to the following:

 

Pistols

-Lato: This is starting gear, and purchasing it doesn't add to the the play experience.

-Aklato: A good choice. A bit similar to the lato, but who doesn't love a good bit of akimbo?

-Lex: A hefty fee for a new player, but by the time they can afford it they should be experienced enough at sniping that this pistol will make them feel powerful. Good choice.

-Sicarus: Burst fire is an entirely different feel to the starting lato. It shakes up the ammo economy and introduces recoil to your sidearm. Again, good choice.

 

Rifles

-MK1-Braton: Starting gear, adds nothing to the play experience.

-Braton: Slight variation on the starting rifle. Even has the same name. Not much if any addition to the play experience.

-Strun: A completely different feel from the Braton family, and a good inclusion in the freely-available weapons category. At 3/4 the price of a sentinel blueprint, though, I think it's a bit too expensive to be part of the new player experience. 75K doesn't take long to build up now that I've played for a while and know the ins and outs, but as a new player I just flatout never had that much money. By the time you can save up this much, you're probably good enough to get into the blueprint economy.

 

Melee

-Sadly, completely empty. By the time you clear Mercury, you can make a Cronus fairly easily, but this doesn't feel much different from the Skana.

 

Conclusions

I think the pistol section is perfect. Four choices which cover a pretty wide range of ammunition economy, optimal range and general feel, it's a solid spread. The rifle section could use something for long-range with single shots feeling more like they matter, like the Lex in the pistol section. I remember being able to snipe decently with the MK1, but it's generally a burst and/or spray-and-pray weapon, and lost a bit of shine after a while. I'd also like to reiterate that the strun is a bit high-cost for a new player. Finally, the melee section needs something for new players to spend their credits on. The skana is all well and good, but variety is the spice of life as they say. Speaking from personal experience, one of the things that kept me from leaving the game early on was buying a Furax. That totally changed the melee side of the game, and got me exploring everything else the game had to offer.

 

Ah, and one final note. I personally haven't played Rhino yet, but I will say that, as I see it, Iron Skin is the defining skill for that frame. Full non-situational invulnerability is a bit much (that's for any frame, mind you, not just Rhino), and dropping it to damage resistance is not something I personally dislike (though if you're going to nerf one frame's run-around-while-invulnerable skill, especialy the tank frame, I think you should do the same for all such skills), but I do agree with the chorus saying that the skill should retain its crowd control immunity. Or at least resistance. The Rhino is a tank, and it should be allowed to do its job. If the CC immunity is still there (or there again), ignore this complaint. I'm just going off of what the region chat was exploding over.

 

Anyway, good fun, and thanks for the constant updates, even if they're base-breaking at times. Looking forward to Update 8.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Kashaan

[Worira]

So, wait. They fixed the only actually exploitable thing about Iron Skin (it could be on literally forever)... And then they nerfed it after that just for the hell of it?

[Tegajinn]

agreed, im fine with a higher energy cost for it

 

I could live with that as well.  The current Rhino is useless given now he has 4 worthless skills.

[wayneo]

Need a hotfix for doors on colaris cant get past mecur stage 3 and i jsut reseted! lots of people who reset wont be geting past mecury level 3

[Tegajinn]

So, wait. They fixed the only actually exploitable thing about Iron Skin (it could be on literally forever)... And then they nerfed it after that just for the hell of it?

 

 

So now Ember got the same ability as Rhino and it deals AOE damage ... Trinity is invincible with almost endless energy, let the poor Rhino alone, all he had is Iron skin.

 

More or less to both of the above.

[Kray465]

About the new market (which I still think was a bad idea, mind you)

 

With everything being moved to blueprints and needing sometimes obscene amount of resources (550 alloy plate for a Boar :/) maybe it was done for Update 8's clan thing? I do believe they mentioned several times about resource trading.

 

Not that I think it's a good idea, just a thought, please don't destroy me.

 

Actually that makes alot of sense. Currently the pricing does make it harder for newer players but once update 8 launches and they join a clan then obtaining these resources could be much, much easier through their "limited" trade system. 

 

"" Cause this was only briefly mentioned in the live stream.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I could live with that as well.  The current Rhino is useless given now he has 4 worthless skills.

especially since other 'frames do what he does, only better.

[VanillaRegal]

wow really? they nerfed the one thing that could make rhino usable? While trinity has infinite energy and not only full invul, but reflects damage? Well.... to throw rhino to the garbage then :/

Just use Trinity until they nerf her and make that warframe ENTIRELY useless.

 

Having fun is always a bad thing, remember?

[Aggh]

Iron-skin outclassed? Why because it does no damage? Invincibility is one hell of a perk.

 

The fact of the matter is that when you are playing Rhino and nothing is a threat to you ruins gameplay. Literally nothing. The biggest threat is either  running out of energy or forgetting to use iron skin.

 

Lasers? Iron Skin.

Disrupters? Iron Skin.

Boss Fights? Iron Skin. 

Shockwave Moas? Iron Skin.

Rollers? Iron Skin.

50 enemy surrounding you? Iron Skin.

Damage? lol nope, Iron Skin!

All things that are easily mitigated by a bit of common sense/passable aim and consequently make it better to go for a frame that has abilities that can actually kill stuff.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Aggh

[Makemap]

I think the Furax should stay where it is at because it sucks against lvl 25+ mobs and ancient.

The low rank glove that only hits 1 person at a time.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Makemap

[Gallas]

skill vortex dont workkkk!!!!

[wayneo]

rihno was overpowered all there is to it,

wish they fix caloris stage first ebfore anyhting eles

[KvotheTheArcane1]

All things that are easily mitigated by a bit of common sense and passable aim and consquently make it better to go for a frame that has abilities that can actually kill stuff.

rhino's niche was the ability to wade through anything and revive someone, or get close to disruptors/ancients and make them focus him, instead of hitting the casters.

[VanillaRegal]

Wow. So you just turned everything to blueprints? "Pricing balance" my dead grandma. That is NOT  a way to "balance" pricing. That is a way to extend gameplay by making it more farm heavy. Bad move, DE.

They want you to pay for it with real money, not farm it. Don't you understand? It's moving to a Pay-to-Win system. Next thing you know we'll find "Lockboxes" scattered about the mission you need to open with real money that happen to be the only way to obtain rare components like Galium or Morphics.

[ThaPhreak]

Iron Skin nerf... really?  I mean, he's a Rhino; he's all tanky!  Let him tank.

 

To clarify, It doesn't make sense that he wouldn't be invulnerable during that considering how many other frames are invulnerable during their random abilities.  As anyone that does high level defenses in the later waves knows, Rhino was the go to reviver if needed (Trinity could, too, of course).  It was pretty much his awesome trait (yes, Rhinos are great for sweeping melee since they're more shielded frames, but that's not as unique to him so to speak).

 

Now Trinity's the tank and Rhino's... well... he's a frame you can play if you want to be slow and not as effective at core aspects of the game.

 

In my opinion, the duration should have gotten nerfed but the invulnerability stay intact.  I've had a hell of a time getting my husband to play this in the first place; I know he'll outright never touch the game now.  That kind of sucks for me personally. 

rhino is not a medic he should be kicking butt, not playing medic.... jus sayin 

 

and rhino is still a tank, if you think otherwise you can't see past not having a godmode/win button and are just doing it wrong, rhino has a butt load of defense built in, throw a steel fiber on him and let him fight, let trinity save your butts as she is meant to do, granted she will be used more for boss tanking but it's not like she deals a buttload of damage anyways, she needs others to do damage while she keeps boss attention.

[Nicocat]

Ember isn't un-disruptable during Overheat. Just FYI since I saw that myth in here again.

Also, I'm going to add my voice to the chorus re: pricing. I think moving a great number of weapons away from credit-buyable is only going to make things less attractive to new players. If you join the game, take a look at the weapon list and see... maybe 3-4 out of a dozen or more in each category that you can buy with fakemoney, and the rest appear to be (on the Arsenal screens) buyable only with realmoney? That's going to be a massive turn-off. And probably moreso when they realize how much time and grinding is going to go into just getting a simple Bo.

I think this was a poor move, DE. Please rethink this... aggressive... pricing method.

(Rhino is fine now, QQ more everyone who thinks getting to wave 200 on Xini isn't a waste of time~)

[Prepoznator]

They want you to pay for it with real money, not farm it. Don't you understand? It's moving to a Pay-to-Win system. Next thing you know we'll find "Lockboxes" scattered about the mission you need to open with real money that happen to be the only way to obtain rare components like Galium or Morphics.

  

When that happens`im out of here,and btw it seems it is coming but slowly....

[Lumireaver]

So it looks like the latest hotfix also nerfed Steam overlay. As in, it doesn't work anymore.

[Aggh]

rhino's niche was the ability to wade through anything and revive someone, or get close to disruptors/ancients and make them focus him, instead of hitting the casters.

The handful of casters in this game can deal with disruptors well enough on their own.  Even with the kind of utlity that Iron skin provided rhino, he still was far from overpowered.

[ThaPhreak]

They want you to pay for it with real money, not farm it. Don't you understand? It's moving to a Pay-to-Win system. Next thing you know we'll find "Lockboxes" scattered about the mission you need to open with real money that happen to be the only way to obtain rare components like Galium or Morphics.

no they want you to grind for your frames or pay for them, what you need still drops for free if you put in the time, if you don't want to put in the time then you can pay to win. 

 

i think the changes in the market are good. earn it by grinding or be lazy and buy it. 

 

my two pence.

Phreak

[liftedsoul]

Please explain how an ability that is pretty much outclassed by the abilities of most decent frames ruins gameplay.  Like everyone else that wanted it nerfed, all you can say is "invulnerability bad.  Invulnerability need nerf." 

 

But how did it unbalance the game?  Plenty of frames (loki, ash, trinity) can solo a boss without taking damage.  Every frame can easily solo any boss if you're not bad at the game.  On top of that, pretty much every frame can dish out more damage than rhino.  All he had going for them was the fact that he could tank and do a tiny bit of cc. 

 

Now he can kind of tank and do a tiny bit of cc.  Compared to frames that can kill everything in sight with the press of a button, that is kind of underwhelming.

 

I don't disagree. I've felt like he is a one-trick pony with his invincibility being his major perk. He needs a change to his kit (whether that be a buff to his damaging abilities or a change in mechanics), so that he isn't just the Frame you play to take no damage in any scenario. 

 

As far as your example of Frames being able to solo down bosses without taking damage. You're right every frame can solo a boss. I don't know if you watched the livestream where a squad got to wave 80 in Defense and the enemy levels exceeded 400. Where one single attack could one-shot any frame that wasn't invulnerable to damage. It was a sight to behold to watch as Rhino and Trinity could go head to head with these high leveled opponents with no fear as long as they had an energy pool.

 

Now of course, that is the extreme of the tanking spectrum but sometimes you gotta go that far to prove a point. It's a strong ability.

[Morte_de_Angelis]

So Vauban Skills

1st - Volts Shock In a grenade form
2nd - Excalibur Super Jump

3rd - Rhino Ult

 

The "Singularity" is the only new thing about this warframe.

 

So, what does Rhino get to compensate for Iron Skin?

Vaubans got his Ult as his third is what looks like a much larger radius

Link + Energy Vamp for Trininty is a much better tank vs Bosses + reflected damage
Rhino Charge is a Poor mans Slash dash

The only thing that Rhino has is his second which isn't all that great.