7.11.0: Rhino Iron Skin Change... How It Is Now

[Cr4p]

I have a Rhino but haven't played him yet, but several friends I play with often have them, and I have to say, I never really saw the need for this nerf?

 

I see a lot of people saying "About time" or similar, but why, specifically was the nerf needed?

 

With apologies to the friends who play them, I've never seen the Rhino as being all that super useful for anything other than picking up downed people (to a group at least). Without some way of consistently and effectively drawing aggro from enemies away from teammates, they don't seem super useful as a "tank", without super weapons to back them up, I don't see them destroying bosses or anything? What was so OP about temporary invulnerability?

[MXXVI]

Without disruptor and toxic immunity...without the ability to stand in the middle of a firefight, shrug off all damage and revive teammates, the Rhino is:

 

 

A slow-moving, energy-inefficient tank without proper tanking abilities, and a mega-stomp that....basically seems to do less than the new Vauban's "bastille" ability.

 

Its charge ability costs too much and does too little. Its stomps do barely any damage.

 

 

@Cr4p -

 

You said it, man. Personally, I've enjoyed playing Rhino, because the short godmode allowed me to save the team when things went wrong.

 

But in actuality, the Rhino just...wasn't fulfilling its purpose to begin with. Now?

 

Now, it's time to dust off my Excalibur I think. At least until DE gets a grip on this situation.

[Emotitron]

He already was an underused frame :|

 

He's been my fav (he was the best weapons platform). We'll see if that stays true. I am guessing not. 

[Emotitron]

I only used it to farm certain bosses, now I'll just stick to Frost and I don't think I'll be the only one that will change frames. It's safer to regen your shields inside the Snow Globe than using Iron Skin now.

 

I remember that the last time they modified Rhino DE said "he was pretty much where they wanted it to be".

 

Welcome to what forums do to games. Not even PvE games are immune to mob rule.

I was opposed to the change and I am a bit sad that DE let forum whining design their game in this case. I just don't want to contribute to the problem now by trying to whine to get it set back. They should be measuring OP/UP by usage stats alone, not by the loudest forum whiners.

If you feel a frame isn't good, then don't use it - and they will have to revisit it.

[RealityMachina]

*snip*

Weren't you one of the guys complaining about people complaining about the Rollers since they clearly simply needed to lrn2play to deal with the rollers?

 

I don't think you have much room to stand on when it comes to complaining about difficulty bumps.

[tuman18]

It looks like a complete misunderstanding of the concept of playing Rhino and the principle of "tanking" by developers. We have a "fast deflection" mods for shields, we have a Sentinel that is also able to quickly restore the shields - no one needs MORE shields. No one used the "iron skin" with full shields - it was necessary for the low level of health. Health is the only valuable and virtually irreplaceable resource for survival - there is no health regeneration (rejuvenation artifact that makes up 30 health per minute - ha ha), it's poorly compensated by buy-able health packs (maximum of 100 HP, which you can lose in a second - twice ha ha), health spheres drops rarely and only healing warframe Trinity is found in random battles a little less than never. If you have shot down shields - you hide behind some box and wait for half a minute, if you have shot down health - you're dead. And the new version of iron skin makes Rhino helpless corpse. Oh, and by the way - the unique fourth Rhino Stomp ability now has a better version -  Vauban has it. Bravo, the developers, you just killed one of the symbols of the game.
Give us a #@ing mod to regenerate health. Give health regeneration to new iron skin. Bring back the old iron skin. Just do not dare to kill Rhino and throw it in that condition.

 

Это выглядит как полное непонимание концепции игры за Рино и принципа танкования разработчиками. У нас есть мод на быстрое восстановление щитов, у нас есть сентинель который тоже умеет быстро восстанавливать щиты - никому не нужно ЕЩЕ БОЛЬШЕ щитов. Никто не использовал железную кожу с полными щитами - она нужна была для низкого уровня здоровья. Здоровье  единственный ценный и практически невосполнимый ресурс для выживания -  на него нет регенерации (артефакт регенерации который восполняет 30 хп в минуту - ха-ха), он почти не восполняется покупными лечилками (максимум 100 хп, которые ты можешь потерять за секунду - дважды ха-ха), сферы здоровья выпадают редко и единственный лечащий варфрейм Тринити встречается в случайных боях чуть реже чем никогда. Если у тебя сбили щиты - ты прячешься за каким-либо ящиком и ждешь полминуты, если у тебя сбили здоровье - ты труп. И новая версия кожи Рино делает его беспомощным трупом. Да, и кстати - уникальная четвертая способность Рино теперь есть у Вобана, как всегда лучше чем у Рино. Браво, разработчики, вы только что убили один из символов игры.
Дайте нам гребанный мод на регенерацию здоровья. Дайте регенерацию здоровья новой коже Рино. Верните старую кожу. Только не смейте убить Рино и бросить его в таком состоянии.

[shannerz]

Sorry, added this to another post also but they shouldn't of changed iron skin, instead, left it as it was and make it his ultimate (as this is a I-win button for any class). Then just play around with the duration to balance it, this forces the player to pick when he uses the ability due to the power cost and duration (instead of always on like it was before) Then move his current ultimate and make it a 50 power ability and also play around with the duration to balance. That way he has now 2 usable abilities with appropriate power costs.

What they misread was that it wasn't the ability itself that was the problem but the fact that because the power cost was so low with the right mods you can always have it on which ruined gameplay as there was no risk.

[Sirabot]

(granted I have had no personal experience with the Rhino at higher level locations),

 

And you're commenting why?

[Emotitron]

Weren't you one of the guys complaining about people complaining about the Rollers since they clearly simply needed to lrn2play to deal with the rollers?

 

I don't think you have much room to stand on when it comes to complaining about difficulty bumps.

 

I am complaining about a difficulty bump? Not sure you read my post right. I am stating that whining should not be designing games. Game theory should be designing games.

I was opposed to nerfing Rhino for no reason other than Rhino is NOT an overplayed frame. If he was overly popular I would have supported it.

 

And can you please stop trying to turn forum conversations into confrontations.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Emotitron

[RealityMachina]

And you're commenting why?

Because I have this thing called a brain that lets me try making logical observations when given information from my friends who do play Warframe and have Rhinos, people on here who have Rhinos, and the ability to distill information witth skepticism from people who are saying questionable things?

 

 

I am complaining about a difficulty bump? Not sure you read my post right. I am stating that whining should not be designing games. Game theory should be designing games.

I was opposed to nerfing Rhino for no reason other than Rhino is NOT an overplayed frame. If he was overly popular I would have supported it.

 

 

Ah, you're not a masochist, you're a hipster. Gotcha.

Edited May 18, 2013 by RealityMachina

[Renan.Ruivo]

I repeat myself over and over again: THIS GAME DOES NOT NEED NERFES. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY  IT DDOES NOT NEED PvP.

[JerryMouse13]

Weren't you one of the guys complaining about people complaining about the Rollers since they clearly simply needed to lrn2play to deal with the rollers?

 

I don't think you have much room to stand on when it comes to complaining about difficulty bumps.

 

Except that this isn't a 'difficulty bump', Rhino is now just a flat out inferior frame in every respect. Trinity still has god-mode, and Ember has better damage mitigation.

 

Rollers are an unnecessarily difficult to deal with annoyance that have the potential to permanently stun lock any player. The Iron skin nerf reduced the effectiveness of the one skill that made Rhino excel in combat to the point where both the healer, and the mage can out tank him.

[wazatoekietoekie]

I really hope they change the rhino's iron skin back too 100%

damage absorb instead of 80 cause i wanted the rhino warframe

For the ironskin i finally got it and one update later they change jt tho 80%

Damage absorb what makes it almost usseles cause you cant hold a large group

Of enemies or recharge your shield or get to a safe spot.

So i realy hipe they fix this soon

[shannerz]

Welcome to what forums do to games. Not even PvE games are immune to mob rule.

I was opposed to the change and I am a bit sad that DE let forum whining design their game in this case. I just don't want to contribute to the problem now by trying to whine to get it set back. They should be measuring OP/UP by usage stats alone, not by the loudest forum whiners.

If you feel a frame isn't good, then don't use it - and they will have to revisit it.

Ok so by your logic when somoene says something on the forum, or if you get a high enough post count, devs will make changes to the game? Unfortunately I don't think it is that democratic. Also this is a PvE based game, I really don't see that many people posting about how it sucks that rhino is invincible and can hold agro well on defence missions. So it really isn't being controlled by forum whiners.

It sounds like you can't tolerate these types of people and so lash out at them indirectly. I am pretty sure they listen to opinions but by no means take it as conclusive. Saying whining is the problem and that you don't want to contribute does not benefit anyone in this already deviated argument.

Edited May 20, 2013 by shannerz

[Phoenix86]

Atm my Rhino is sitting in the closet.

 

The only thing i want restored on Iron SKin is the immunity to CC/energy+shield drain/poison.

Once i have it back i can live with the 80% dmg red and no shield recharge... but i want back what i've stated above

[Shifty_Shuffler]

Sorry, added this to another post also but they shouldn't of changed iron skin, instead, left it as it was and make it his ultimate (as this is a I-win button for any class). Then just play around with the duration to balance it, this forces the player to pick when he uses the ability due to the power cost and duration (instead of always on like it was before) Then move his current ultimate and make it a 50 power ability and also play around with the duration to balance. That way he has now 2 usable abilities with appropriate power costs.

What they misread was that it wasn't the ability itself that was the problem but the fact that because the power cost was so low with the right mods you can always have it on which ruined gameplay as there was no risk.

 

This would work for me. Why did they not do this? DE, please consider doing this.

[Emotitron]

Ok so by your logic when somoene says something on the forum, or if you get a high enough post count, devs will make changes to the game? Unfortunately I don't think it is that democratic. Also this is a PvE based game, I really don't see that many people posting about how it sucks that rhino is invincible and can hold agro well on defence missions. So it really isn't being controlled by forum whiners.

It sounds like you can't tolerate these types of people and so lash out at them indirectly. I am pretty sure they listen to opinions but by no means take it as conclusive. Saying whining is the problem and that you don't want to contribute does not benefit anyone in this already deviated argument.

 

That is not at all what I said. I said that game theory and stats on the games usage should be the primary driver for decision making, not forum whining and demands. I personally think the Rhino nerf was out of line and not statistically supportable. DE has the numbers though. If the Rhino was being overplayed then a nerf was in order. If Rhino usage plummets (which it will) then they overnerfed it.

How we 'feel' about it though shouldn't be the deciding factor on how DE reworks stuff.

 

If abilities and mods are not getting used, they likely need buffing or rework. If they are getting spammed then they may need nerfing. If people are soloing content way above their level and are using a certain weapon/ability to do it, then that also should be revisited.

[Zerohades]

Sorry poor english

 

Rhino is my favorite Warframe, and i'm really pissed off with this change, we couldn't tank anymore. Give 100% back and make it more expensive if needed, but 80% on Pluton defense for example, you're not needed anymore. I had 2 teamates that died, and couldnt revive them with Ironskin, 90% steel fiber, 360% Redirection on lev 55 ancient toxic and after putting the toxic in stasis for the first mate.

 

Zero

[Qb3rt]

Vulnerability to ancient disruptors is by far the most painful part of this nerf.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Vulnerability to ancient disruptors is by far the most painful part of this nerf.

Eh, toxics kinda tie it right there, since they ignore your IS, and shields.

[Ducant]

personaly i dont like the nerf but i wont be all critical something did need done

 

now what i wish they would have done is maybe add a cool down timer to it so it was like cast it be invincable for however long with your mods and then once it droped have a 15-30 second CD before you could pop it again or maybe make it the ultimate and raise the cost maybe even both

 

but this %80 damage reduction thing realy makes me miss my days of running into the middle of hell and rezzing some squishy

 

a RL friend mentioned another way of doin it is shortening the duration tho idk how that would work youd have to have mods on it to res people then

Edited May 20, 2013 by Ducant

[scorp123_CH]

Atm my Rhino is sitting in the closet.

 

Dito. With the right mods for shields and health (Fast Redirection, Vitality, Steel Fiber ...) even my Excalibur is the better "tank" than my level 30 Rhino. My Excal has more health and more shields than the warframe that was supposed to be "the tank". So why use it? Or why even keep it? With the Excalibur I can at least dodge incoming fire and give some damage back, shoot and slash-dash everything to death. Rhino is just a slow moving target begging to be overrun and shred to pieces, it can neither absorb much damage nor give some back ...   No whining here, just the facts. With the current situation Rhino is useless now.