You're (Players) Gonna Hate Me...daikyu, Bows, And Snipers

[Ironlixivium]

     First, just let me say, please. Don't rage on this thread. No 3-word "how about no" replies and the like. Please think about your response, I'll try to respect your opinion on this and trust you'll respect mine. In short, please try to contribute rather than just turn this into a list of how many people hate my opinion. :/

 

     I actually like the daikyu. It's a little weak (imo it should be ~500 damage to be more in line with the other bows) but I love everything else about it. So much that I actually wished that the other bows were more like it (longer charge, high damage rather than crit, more accurate) and our snipers become our current bows (crit chance easily reaching over 100, able to fire off quite a few shots in a relatively small amount of time for such a high power weapon).

     I have a few reasons I personally would like this. First is that I like the feel of the daikyu, and I miss quite a lot less with it. Why? The shots have a higher time cost, allowing me to both have time to think about where my shot should go, aim it accordingly, and have a desire to hit, since missing will usually result in a missed shot opportunity. As opposed to my dread, which has a maxed speed trigger and faster hands (increases arrow-notch speed) so I can literally have another shot flying through the air in less than a second. Yes, I know, I don't HAVE to use those mods, but not doing so reduces dps. 

     The second reason that I would like this change is that I've always thought snipers should be what bows are now, high power weapons that can fire 1-2 shots a second. But the problem with that is then bows would be in a bad place, offering exactly what snipers can, but be worse off with every stat relative to accuracy (no scope, no hitscan/slower projectiles/ projectile drop).

     Of course, then you would run into one more problem. The synoid issue. I'm not talking about nerfing to the ground, I mean how people with 3-4 forma on their potatoed bow suddenly have all that put onto a weapon they may or may not want, and they're forced to keep it due to how much time and effort they put into it. Hopefully, after rngesus starts worshiping me and I become superman, if this idea were ever to be implemented, anyone with a potatoed or formad bow would have the option to either keep their potatoes and formas on it, or take them off for a week after they next log in ('cause what if they had like, a 1-week business trip or something and couldn't play right after the update? It should be able to work with their schedule).

     Any thoughts on this? Again, please no rage comments or unhelpful 3-word disapproval comments (full-explanation disapproval is perfectly fine though)

 

TL;DR: I'd like it if bows became slower high raw damage weapons like the daikyu (but have their same current strength) and snipers became more like our current high rof rek-in-a-sec weapons. If that would ever happen, you would have the chance to reobtain your potatoes hopefully. Please, no rage comments or "how about no"s. I'd like if the conversations in this thread would show well thought out responses and opinions.

[Dead10ck]

How about no.

 

Sorry, I just had to. Your ideas are well thought out and I agree with them to some extent, but rather than altering the weapons we have I think we should add some that are more to your liking. Other people's tastes have to be considered, and I believe there's no harm in adding more variety.

Regardless, snipers really need a buff.

 

edit: First! Not that it matters...

Edited May 20, 2015 by DeadSirius

[Ironlixivium]

How about no.

 

O_O *stares intently, eye twitches, speaks in deep demonish voice*: "You're mind is a scarring stain on their anti-hatred world"

 

Seriously though, I put in there three times, can't you at least add why?

 

Thanks, lol, I knew someone would do that though.

 

 

Sorry, I just had to. Your ideas are well thought out and I agree with them to some extent, but rather than altering the weapons we have I think we should add some that are more to your liking. Other people's tastes have to be considered, and I believe there's no harm in adding more variety.

Regardless, snipers really need a buff.

 

edit: First! Not that it matters...

 

 

Lol, I have a feeling like you edited in the reason later just so you could be first...Anyway, probably, I know that chances of this ever happening is basically nil. I know that my opinion is just one of many, but, to put it simply, if I could somehow control the development of warframe with my mind and also somehow make everyone else like it, that's what I would do. 

 

"Thank god you can't"

 

There, I said it so you don't have to, lol

Edited May 20, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[Dead10ck]

O_O *stares intently, eye twitches, speaks in deep demonish voice*: "You're mind is a scarring stain on their anti-hatred world"

 

Seriously though, I put in there three times, can't you at least add why?

 

Thanks, lol, I knew someone would do that though.

 

Did you click the spoiler?

[unknow99]

Snipers definitely need something more, to compete against the "classics" aka Boltor prime, Soma,...

 

Higher damage? Naah, this solution would be too simple...

 

(Shotguns need something aswell)

[Shuuro]

I guess you could technically call the Daikyu a longbow, while our other bows are shortbows.

 

They feel completely different already.

 

Longbow: Longer charge, little to no arc, great for sniping. Over 100% status chance easily possible. The Daikyu could honestly use a damage boost though.

 

Shortbow: Shorter charge, high crit, arcs and therefor harder to snipe with. Damage is great due to crits.

 

 

As for missing with the Daikyu, that's a personal problem. You can hold the shot like all of the other bows. I don't miss unless I'm killing things over a few hundred meters away, and even then I usually hit my mark.

 

 

As for snipers. They could do with either a straight up buff, or with an addition of a specialized mechanic. No matter what, bows are innately silent, and have punch through. While Sniper are hitscan, and are much easier to land shots with.

[Dead10ck]

Snipers definitely need something more, to compete against the "classics" aka Boltor prime, Soma,...

 

Higher damage? Naah, this solution would be too simple...

 

(Shotguns need something aswell)

 

We are getting Vectis Prime, let's see how that goes.

 

Shotguns just feel too counter-intuitive to me, although I can see the potential.

Not many people even try shotguns, so I think they'd need a bit of a rework.

[Dead10ck]

Lol, I have a feeling like you edited in the reason later just so you could be first...Anyway, probably, I know that chances of this ever happening is basically nil. I know that my opinion is just one of many, but, to put it simply, if I could somehow control the development of warframe with my mind and also somehow make everyone else like it, that's what I would do. 

 

"Thank god you can't"

 

There, I said it so you don't have to, lol

 

I believe that's too much power for any one person.

*cough*Steve*

[Lady_Khaos]

The problem with your train of thought is you are only considering from a stat point of view and not a design point of view. Specifically WHY the Daikyu functions differently from other bows. The short answer is, the others are short bows, specifically designed for quicker, short range fire. The Daikyu, however, is a heavy duty long bow, meant for great accuracy and long range, with a higher draw strength requirement increasing power and range.

In the spirit of constructive criticism, I agree with the above proposal that we need and will likely get more long bows in the future. I also believe each sniper class (rifle, short bow, and long) should be distinct enough mechanically that they each have their own niche.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Khaos_Zand3r

[Dead10ck]

The problem with your train of thought is you are only considering from a stat point of view and not a design point of view. Specifically WHY the Daikyu functions differently from other bows. The short answer is, the others are short bows, specifically designed for quicker, short range fire. The Daikyu, however, is a heavy duty long bow, meant for great accuracy and long range, with a higher draw strength requirement increasing power and range.

 

When working to solve a problem, sometimes it's more effective for both viewpoints to be used.

[7grims]

Well, for once I already seen a tread asking for crits to be removed from daikyu, so other stats could be buffed.

I found that an horrible horrible suggestion, and if anything like that would append, I would rant until my catalyst was returned to me.

 

This is a big problem with this game atm, we rank up frames and weapons, waist taters, forma, etc, and more importantly we waist allot of time to re-rank all that gear, and just like when damage 2.0 append, and also when the ability mods became in-build, we lost allot of gear or resources in those.

The game constant change, creates allot of mistrust, there is never something really good that we can trust it will be there everyday for us, just like the synoid that nowadays is not so great, at least on that weapon I'm happy I didn't invest in it, but I already own allot of gear that simply as fallen down of grace.

 

Another similar problem, is found in the PVE vs PVP builds.

All my gear as been made PVE, but now all the compatible mods for PVP dont match the polarities, don't even know if DE as even a glimpse of a solution for such deep problem.

[Ironlixivium]

Did you click the spoiler?

 

Yeah, the first time I replied you hadn't edited it in yet. I added my response to it.

 

I guess you could technically call the Daikyu a longbow, while our other bows are shortbows.

 

-snip-

 

     I believe the correct term is composite bow, but yeah. Actually, I rarely miss with my daikyu, because, as I explained in that massive wall of text, shots from the daikyu carry more time-cost. In short, with a boltor prime firing 10 rounds per second, missing one round? pfft, who cares? but when you have a bow that takes 2 seconds to charge, you not only have time to think and aim, but it also means that missing comes with much larger consquences, for example, a bombard could fire of 2-3 more shots and possibly kill you. Same principal with my dread and paris prime. I can easily just fire another shot, and have no respect for the individual shot since they come so fast, meaning I miss more, despite being barely less accurate.

 

The problem with your train of thought is you are only considering from a stat point of view and not a design point of view. Specifically WHY the Daikyu functions differently from other bows. The short answer is, the others are short bows, specifically designed for quicker, short range fire. The Daikyu, however, is a heavy duty long bow, meant for great accuracy and long range, with a higher draw strength requirement increasing power and range.

 

     Yes, I know that they're different, but knowledge can't stop me from craving a dread that acts like a stronger daikyu. ^_^

 

When working to solve a problem, sometimes it's more effective for both viewpoints to be used.

 

Well said.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[Autongnosis]

To be honest if the Daikyu was really a longbow it should actually be able to do something more than less than half of the damage shortbows do, right?

 

I mean, the concept might have been cool but in practice having a single shot slow firing status weapon does not really make use of status and the pretty high base damage is completely wasted by the hellish charge time and the lack of crit potential.

I mean, want to make a more status oriented bow than the ones we have? fine by me - but considering DE gave every other bow in the game crit viability, i can't follow their train of thought when they put this one in.

 

And it's not even a mid tier weapon. It does far too much damage to a single target for that to be a thing. It's way too damaging to be mid-tier, but it struggles even at low tier because of the fact that it shoots so slowly.

 

It should be looked at imho - or maybe they could tell us what was their train of thought on the matter when they designed it, so we could actually follow their thinking and provide some decent feedback.

 

I personally do not seewhat the supposed direction of this bow was - 45% status chance does not make the weapon a status weapon. Some of the best status weapons in the game have 20% (Braton Prime for instance).

The damage is high, making it a possible one-hit weapon, but it's at the same time too low compared to the (supposedly) short bows we already have. It's lower than both the Paris and the Cernos, leaving out Paris Prime and Dread which deal almost twice the burst damage.

It's a no-crit weapon - but a crit build actually raises your damage by a lot, it just is unreliable.

 

It's a weird weapon. I think if DE were to do a PSA and tell us what their idea behind the new weapons was, the whole community would give some feedback.

[Ironlixivium]

-snip-

 

     I believe it was supposed to be half status, half noob bow. That's what I think it was supposed to be anyway, given its base status that can be enjoyed without status mods, and the fact that most noobs don't have the mods required for crit builds. I've tried it with a few frames, and found out that, for me anyway, it works best with nova. I know, big shocker, you're probably thinking "every weapon works best with nova" but hear me out. m prime makes it so one kill can give me many, allowing it to take out crowds at a time, and, since they removed amd's crit absorption, the daikyu will give you much, much higher numbers with amd than your other bows. Same with any other crit ignoring enemies.

     I still think that the daikyu needs a damage buff, though, 100% status chance isn't as good as it sounds with a weapon that should be getting you one-shot-kills.

[Eyeless]

I see what you're getting at. Make bows medium draw time high penetration monsters that can spear through heavily armored enemies; whereas Snipers become the accurate red critting machines. 

 

I'm not opposed to it but the first weapon we had trying to approach that niche failed at it and the Dread/Paris Prime function much more like a short-bow should (gaming-wise, as war-archers were easily 100 times faster with their archery than most gameplay archery is sadly) so I'm not on board with changing those. 

 

Snipers need a buff flat out with or without bows being changed a little to compromise and give them room. 

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

Bows should be the crit weapons, as they are now. Snipers should be the raw damage weapons.

 

It makes more sense, or at least as much as anything needs to in Warframe. Bows get high critical damage, rewarding the player for the ability to land headshots (and double the crit multiplier by doing so) at range, while leading the target. Even on body hits, it can be implied that the critical damage is a skilled Tenno archer aiming where the enemy is more vulnerable even if that isn't reflected mechanically in the game. Ragdolled enemies flying backwards into crowds is just it being cool.

 

The daikyu fits in between, but is currently not performing well enough for either camp. It has drawbacks that are not compensated for in its strengths. The Opticor is basically the sniper side of the daikyu coin, with low crit, high damage, and being basically hit-scan, but charge time slowing it down.

 

A more space-modern rifle fires a faster projectile that does its damage by imparting more energy to the target rather than simply piercing it. This would be reflected in the hit-scan, high raw damage sniper rifles. Headshots are still beneficial, but less so than with bows because they are easier to get, and would be more about repeat shots at range with a lower skill requirement. Easier to use, but less about one-shot kills. Obviously, this would require reworking all the sniper rifles to be semiautomatic (rather than single shot like the vectis) so that followup shots are more practical. They shouldn't become latron primes, firing multiple times per second, but instead have some unique aspect of their own (maybe high status and base damage, to frequently stun and bleed enemies).

 

This arrangement also avoids ruining everyone's bow build.

Edited May 20, 2015 by (PS4)ElZilcho

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

 

 

 

Bows should be the crit weapons, as they are now. Snipers should be the raw damage weapons.

 

It makes more sense, or at least as much as anything needs to in Warframe. Bows get high critical damage, rewarding the player for the ability to land headshots (and double the crit multiplier by doing so) at range, while leading the target. Even on body hits, it can be implied that the critical damage is a skilled Tenno archer aiming where the enemy is more vulnerable even if that isn't reflected mechanically in the game. Ragdolled enemies flying backwards into crowds is just it being cool.

 

The daikyu fits in between, but is currently not performing well enough for either camp. It has drawbacks that are not compensated for in its strengths. The Opticor is basically the sniper side of the daikyu coin, with low crit, high damage, and being basically hit-scan, but charge time slowing it down.

 

A more space-modern rifle fires a faster projectile that does its damage by imparting more energy to the target rather than simply piercing it. This would be reflected in the hit-scan, high raw damage sniper rifles. Headshots are still beneficial, but less so than with bows because they are easier to get, and would be more about repeat shots at range with a lower skill requirement. Easier to use, but less about one-shot kills. Obviously, this would require reworking all the sniper rifles to be semiautomatic (rather than single shot like the vectis) so that followup shots are more practical. They shouldn't become latron primes, firing multiple times per second, but instead have some unique aspect of their own (maybe high status and base damage, to frequently stun and bleed enemies).

 

This arrangement also avoids ruining everyone's bow build.

Sounds like a great solution!

[Autongnosis]

 

     I believe it was supposed to be half status, half noob bow. That's what I think it was supposed to be anyway, given its base status that can be enjoyed without status mods, and the fact that most noobs don't have the mods required for crit builds. I've tried it with a few frames, and found out that, for me anyway, it works best with nova. I know, big shocker, you're probably thinking "every weapon works best with nova" but hear me out. m prime makes it so one kill can give me many, allowing it to take out crowds at a time, and, since they removed amd's crit absorption, the daikyu will give you much, much higher numbers with amd than your other bows. Same with any other crit ignoring enemies.

     I still think that the daikyu needs a damage buff, though, 100% status chance isn't as good as it sounds with a weapon that should be getting you one-shot-kills.

 

Yeah.

 

But are clantech weapons noob weapons? I mean, they require a clan, a developed dojo, and formas, and sometimes rare/particular resources (detonite injectors/mutagen masses/tellurium).

 

Also, i think it fails horribly to be a noob bow - the slow firerate is too punishing for newbies, who'll end up shooting once and maybe even missing and then facing a swarm of angry mobs.

 

To be honest there are ways in which this bow could be made peculiar and made to occupy its niche, but right now it just feels like any other bow with a slower firerate and unimpressive damage - with a high status chance it can make very little use of.

[Ironlixivium]

-snip-

 

     I'm sorry, I'm having a little trouble following you. Make snipers more like the daikyu and bow stay the same? Idk though...What you said didn't make sense to me. A sniper round to the leg, from my knowledge, is no worse then a large normal round to the leg (please, don't come at me about what a "normal round" is). But an arrow in your leg would be a serious issue, as it moving would most likely tear your muscle. It just seems to me like the gun that shoots small armor piercing rounds would be more centered around headshots, since tbh, an arrow halfway through you seems like a much larger problem than a bullet. o.0 Additionally, iirc bows weren't made for headshots, just ranged combat in general while snipers are. I could be wrong, but does the crit multiplier actually effect headshots that much? what I'm saying is basically, if you had two weapons (lets just suppose a sniper, no specialties or anything) and one did 400 while the other did 100 with crit stats of 100% and 4.0x, wouldn't the calculations work like this?

 

2(400) = 800

2(100 x 4) = 800

or (as you described it, double crit multi)

(4 x 2)(100) = 800

 

I couldn't find anything on the wiki, but that just seems to me how it would work, I've been wrong about that kind of thing before.

 

btw, the thing about the normal round was for gun freaks who like to take my generalizations that I made for a point and act like a just slaughtered their culture or something. I just said normal round because I thought most people could picture what I mean just from context.

 

-snip-

 

     I'm a bit torn, as I made this thread to say what my truly honest opinion was, I never actually meant for it to change much, but I guess my solution would be to leave bows as they are, and make snipers similar, but with a 40% crit chance. If I am correct, that would give them 100% with a maxed point strike, leaving red crits exclusive to bows (I don't count critical delay. past the joy of "I can red crit now" it's really, really not worth the loss of a slot, points, or rof. You're better off with an elemental damage mod, as the damage added from that will be multiplitiplied by the crit multiplier). Oh yeah, and more longbows plz, what about a european style longbow? (basically like the daikyu, but symetrical)

-snip-

 

     I guess dojo weapons can be noob weapons, I mean, we have quite a few low-tier dojo weapons. I wish DE would buff them, we didn't complete the research to get some crap mastery fodder weapons, we wanted at the VERY least a weapon on the high end of mid tier, at best an average high tier weapon, since we have so little atm. 

Edited May 20, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

     I'm sorry, I'm having a little trouble following you. Make snipers more like the daikyu and bow stay the same? Idk though...What you said didn't make sense to me. A sniper round to the leg, from my knowledge, is no worse then a large normal round to the leg (please, don't come at me about what a "normal round" is). But an arrow in your leg would be a serious issue, as it moving would most likely tear your muscle. It just seems to me like the gun that shoots small armor piercing rounds would be more centered around headshots, since tbh, an arrow halfway through you seems like a much larger problem than a bullet. o.0 Additionally, iirc bows weren't made for headshots, just ranged combat in general while snipers are. I could be wrong, but does the crit multiplier actually effect headshots that much? what I'm saying is basically, if you had two weapons (lets just suppose a sniper, no specialties or anything) and one did 400 while the other did 100 with crit stats of 100% and 4.0x, wouldn't the calculations work like this?

 

2(400) = 800

2(100 x 4) = 800

or (as you described it, double crit multi)

(4 x 2)(100) = 800

 

I couldn't find anything on the wiki, but that just seems to me how it would work, I've been wrong about that kind of thing before.

 

btw, the thing about the normal round was for gun freaks who like to take my generalizations that I made for a point and act like a just slaughtered their culture or something. I just said normal round because I thought most people could picture what I mean just from context.

 

The daikyu and opticor are "in-between" weapons, so let's ignore them for now.

 

An arrow is a big, penetrating projectile that does its damage by stabbing into something like a knife. They can go pretty fast, but they don't carry the sort of energy a bullet does. A bullet is a smaller projectile that is moving much faster. It does damage by making a hole in something and also by all that extra energy from a super-fast projectile being introduced to the soft tissue of a target. Go look up some pictures of ballistics gel tests to see what that does, or I'm sure there's no shortage of people shooting water bottles on Youtube. Basically, I think it makes more sense (at least enough to make it up for a video game) for bows to get their power from finesse and mystical ninja skill and guns to get their power from being big and technological.

 

The technological advancement between when bows and guns were used in war makes direct comparisons of what they were meant for kind of pointless.

 

We're also considering that this is a video game and there are game mechanics in play. Arrows require more skill from the player, leading targets and judging the arc. They should reward players who are capable of doing that. Bullets are hitscan and have no arc, but guns can have a magazine and repeat shots more quickly and without charge time. We also don't need to ruin everyone's bow build and do some complicated refund system when bows are good where they are and snipers are almost universally considered in need of a rework. Making sniper rifles the high damage, high status, low critical weapon and buffing them with some unique property (maybe inherant dead aim on all of them?) just makes more sense.

 

Bows will do more total damage with crits and get more one-shot kills at the price of requiring more skill.

Snipers will have be based on raw damage, status, zoom, and ease of use. Less one-shot kills, more repeat hits but no charge time. That makes it easier to kill something with two shots that the bow might have killed with one.

 

Also: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_Hit

Edited May 21, 2015 by (PS4)ElZilcho

[WonbadEthic]

I really like the daikyu, too. I can't describe it well, but when i'm using any other bow, they kinda feel a bit lackluster, no real kick, etc. But when I pull that daikyu string back and let an arrow fly... Wow, what a feeling. Bonus if I can lodge it into three or four heads.

[Autongnosis]

About the clantech bit: i was not specifically talking about the strenght of the weapon itself but about the fact that it can be pretty hard for a midtier player to access clantech weapons.

[TaylorsContraction]

Snipers use high caliber rounds. A sniping shot to the leg would break the leg in half and probably split it in two. Now this of course depends on the caliber, but we're not using hunting rifles to kill Deer I would assume in the game.

Snipers should thus go for raw damage, much like the opticor does. I never use bows because well they're outdated weapons and have no appeal to me so I can't comment on them. But some suggestions for sniping weapons here I feel aren't good at all. People talk about "you need skill to use a bow hur dur", you need the same skill as every other weapon. Hit the target. That they aren't hitscan only has an effect at long range where you'd expect a bow not to do so great in real life. Albeit most environments we fight in are probably low gravity and have no wind currents thus the biggest drawback of bows is the initial velocity they impart comparing to a rifle firing a bullet.

Hell we have projectile weapons that seem to fire slower projectiles than bows.

To make snipers unique we need persistent damage effects. Deal enough damage to an enemy's leg, and they are permanently slowed, or can't move at all. Snipers then can activate this effect with every shot without requiring dedicated damage comparing to an automatic rifle.

Shoot an enemy in the arm and they either drop their weapon, or reduce firing rate significantly. In the head and their accuracy drops to 0, so unless they are using a high rof weapon they won't be hitting anything.

Now the above may seem useless in a game where most enemies already die in one hit, especially if it's a headshot. But for those long survival runs, a sniper that can't instantly kill the heavy units (no one can), will be at least able to debilitate them consistently. This mechanic would also be great for new players who aren't yet at a point where every enemy in the star chart is melted cheese.

[Ironlixivium]

-snip-

 

     I figured the formula would be more complicated, DE likes to do that. Taylor's ideas made sense to me though.

 

-snip-

 

     Wouldn't you be irritated that your vectis can no longer support a crit build? I personally would be with my lanka. I was curious what your opinion on this would be, though, since you use a vectis/banshee loadout

 

About the clantech bit: i was not specifically talking about the strenght of the weapon itself but about the fact that it can be pretty hard for a midtier player to access clantech weapons.

 

     Oh, idk, depends on what kind of clan you joined. Started your own, then yeah, it would take a while, but if you just joined a random one it shouldn't take that long.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[TaylorsContraction]

I like the vectis as a gun but am aware its damage is crap comparing to many other weapons I have. It stops doing well 1 hour into survival missions comparing to other guns, in fact it becomes more of a hindrance because of the rng crit factor. Problem is we can't just swap bow / sniper stats. Not that we can't, but rather doing so will push the problems snipers have onto bows. Also simply giving snipers red crits, yeah would be nice but in effect makes them hitscan bows.

Let's consider different weapons in the game.

Assault rifle / machine pistols - good variety, a few top tier, high rof, straight forward. Typically ammo is the issue requiring sacrificing a slot for mutation. Have crit, status and pure dps variants.

Burst rifles /pistols - only status variants are viable, unique burst mechanic. I actually like sicarus prime.

Bows - typically slow rof, red crit builds. Generally all the same with DaiQ being new pure dps approach. Probably designed with blast procs in mind.

Beam weapons -plenty of options, status, crit, cc.

shotguns, shotgun pistols - close quarter bullet hoses (boar prime, khom, pyrana, brakk, detron). There are other variants but I don't use them. Tigris needs much lower reload speed. Their biggest problem is fall off damage, the damage they deal is actually just fine.

Explosive weapons - tons of damage, aoe, require charging shot, or have poor accuracy.

Semi-automatic rifles / pistols: lots of options for pistols that areg reat. Latron, sybaris are only two rifle variants I often see.

Energy rifles / pistols - they have the technology, and the damages but need some tweaks. Faster projectile speed, probably different ammo system (overheating mechanic).

Weird combinations (quanta, infested weaponsk.

Finally sniping rifles - single shot or semi automatic (already a feature in other weapon types). Good status, okay crit, and SCOPES. The scopes suck but are really the only unique feature to sniping rifles.

People have made suggestions that revolve around buffing scopes. Scopes see weak spots, scopes see through walls, while scoped you do more damage (my least favorite suggestion).

Since scopes are the only unique feature snipers have we either buff then around that mechanic or add something new. Or go the super lazy route,give them tons of damage, either raw or through red crits. Certainly being a fan of snipers I'm biased toward a fun new mechanic.

I already have a raw damage vectis build in slot b,so if crits were removed, I'd be okay.