People Cant Copter?so Lets Take Away Stamina Instead Of Teaching. (That Doom Thread)

[OnimaruX]

You know what I'm just going to say this coptering is not a mechanic, it's a bug that DE ingores to fix cause I pretty sure this was not intended, I mean have you ever paid attention how weird coptering animations look, as you fling across the map at ridiculous speeds and distances you get an animation of the warframe walking in the middle of the air defying the games psychics/animations, and it doesn't work with all melee weapons which seems way off.

[Mak_Gohae]

It doesn't. It really doesn't. If you copter, you use only a fraction of it each time you slide, and coptering itself is a whole two or three buttons -- it's the actual sequence and timing that throws off people. And if you don't copter, you instead just sprint until you do exactly what Scott said.

 

Scott hit the nail on the head when he said, "I hate that f*cking green bar". It's not an interesting system in the least. To veterans who know how to copter and all the little parkour tricks, it might as well not be there. For new players, it's a near-constant hindrance.

 

For new players is a hindrance for veterans it is not.

So what's the problem?

A new player will eventually learn to use it.

And if you are having issues you should provide info to help them.

 

Cant say it's fine for people that learn but its bad for people that just started playing to take it away because that just means a game should not exist at all because people have to learn.

 

Ah, same old Mak.

 

I think I'm actually with Scott on this one. As it stands now, Stamina doesn't really do anything except trick new players into thinking it's important.

 

Stamina is stamina, what level of importance is up to you.

And, again, people saying take it away because people should learn to use. So basically dont have the game, then, cause, you know, people need to learn things.

 

Also,

No we aren't. Additionally,

 

Guess which one has more players?

 

Noooooooot Dynasty Warriors or Gungrave!

 

They were talking about augment slots possibly coming, did they cancel it?

 

Dynasty Warriors is waaaaaaaaaaaay bigger than Warframe.

And Gungrave is a single player game.

[Gravefire]

Coptering is not a challenge. It's a thing you spam over and over to reduce challenge.

As for Stamina - it's not a challenge, either. In the words of Scott, "You sprint sprint sprint then you putter out and then you have to feather that last third or so."

Fun? Gods, no. Skill-based? Please. A major annoyance? Hell yes.

Besides, there's evidently a focus on skill coming in Parkour 2.0. The more mobility you build up, the faster you go, the better you are at navigating, the faster you can go, zipping through hordes of enemies like an actual ninja instead of... whatever the hell we are right now.

 /clap. I salute you good sir.

[S.T.M.P.D]

/clap. I salute you good sir.

Aww, thanks.

So I'm gonna try this one last time: Why should we have to learn coptering in the first place? What does it add to the game in its current, buggy, unbalanced, untouched, state? Answer me that, Mak.

I mean, DE isn't just tweaking coptering because new players have trouble with it, they're looking at it because it's a thing not properly looked at and tailored to fit the game. Why should coptering as the only way to travel to keep up with pals continue to stay as is?

[HibikiGanaha]

holding shift while tapping ctrl every couple seconds to ignore the stamina bar is not skill it is an annoyance

Edited June 3, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Removed maliciousness

[Magneu]

Coptering is simply an exploit in the physics system that a vocal majority liked, so it stayed. It's a way to trivialize even the best map design and simply break the game (minute long Capture runs, flying across huge Void tiles to get to treasure rooms with no challenge). It's not a matter of people not learning to copter, it's a matter of coptering even being something to learn. It doesn't make Warframe "unique" at all, the actual gameplay should be the defining factor.

 

Nitpicking, but I saw a tidbit in one of your replies where you mention stamina mods; I'd like to see you incorporate those into any build that would survive at higher levels, hell, even Raid levels, without cheese tactics. Not only are the mods underwhelming, there simply isn't room in high end builds.  

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Does anyone here rly think that the stamina was a problem cause people couldn't copter?

Gosh. I'm pretty sure at least 80-90% of the playerbase manage to sprint longer then these tenno.

Seriously. Tenno are highly trained space ninjas, coptering, wallrunning, meleeing, ASTHMATIC space ninjas.

It was about damn time for the stamina bar to dissapear.

[Thaumatos]

Wow.

 

U17 isn't out yet and people are starting to blow up the forums with their QQ about copter changes.

 

Delicious.

 

 

Coptering is not a challenge. It's a thing you spam over and over to reduce challenge.

As for Stamina - it's not a challenge, either. In the words of Scott, "You sprint sprint sprint then you putter out and then you have to feather that last third or so."

Fun? Gods, no. Skill-based? Please. A major annoyance? Hell yes.

Besides, there's evidently a focus on skill coming in Parkour 2.0. The more mobility you build up, the faster you go, the better you are at navigating, the faster you can go, zipping through hordes of enemies like an actual ninja instead of... whatever the hell we are right now.

 

DE should make this its own thread, sticky it, and lock it.

[Onisa]

Bleed proc sucks with no healing abilities- bring rejuv, health packs- i dont wanna

That's odd, the common counter I saw to bleed and toxin procs was they were quite capable of totally out running Rejuv and Health Packs on an RNG whim. Well, unless all four people had Rejuv or you dropped 5+ Health Packs at once. Then, for me at least, it became a question of what controller button do I sacrifice to dropping Health Pads? Reloading? Selecting abilities? I know I don't wanna play the game without jumping. Opps, there's that "i don't wanna".

[Trvldl]

In my opinion stamina is a bad thing because it is not fun to manage it, so nothing of value will be lost if they remove it.

 

Coptering is a thing that helps you go fast and diversely. Combine it with another moves and with a certain mindset you'll have fun. Speedrunning is a challenge in itself, since you can always find a way to improve and go faster. It makes you go with choosen pace even if tileset has issues such as bumpy or incaccessible walls, low ceilings and so on. Even being a momentum exploit in nature it is not a bad thing, because of everything mentioned above, just as skiing in tribes or rocket jumping in quake. If you think that traveling a distance by swinging a sword looks stupid then that is just your opinion and we have a ton of hack and slash games with absolutely insane ways of moving your character. There are always some conventionalities in game mechanics that does not feel authentically enough for you, but they may be fine for me.

 

Coptering is removed not because getting into it is hard, but because combining it is hard to master, because most people don't experiment with it and know no better than to just spam it. These same people got too used to simple copter and will get into new parkour system much slower due to old habits, which is a bad thing for everyone.

 

So i'm okay with removing of coptering until new parkour is in acceptable state, after that i'd like to have my afterburner back in the same form or better.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Trvldl

[Ov3rd0se]

Stamina is what I call "annoying realism." Its realism for the sake of realism and adds nothing to the game except frustration and annoyance. I hope they get rid of it and never re-add it.

[Kletse]

Yeah, coptering is easy. Good coptering is something else. I like to copter in triton when playing frost and defend multiple excavators. Da speeed.

And people never complain when they're lying on the ground bleeding out and the only way to make it in time, is to copter the S#&$ out of my dagger.

I'm not a pvp guy though, but i can imagine coptering can ruin pvp. But in pve.... don't touch it man.

[Naqel]

Teach people to play the game instead of taking away every single challenge that the game has.

 

You operate on the false premise that Stamina offers or enhances the challenge posed by the game, as well as "coptering" being a deliberate design decision and not an exploit.

 

Under your false premise, your arguments make sense.

However, the falsehood of your premise, invalidates the truth of your arguments.

Not only that, but within a reality which is factually accurate, your arguments are wrong(which is not always the case).

 

 

In short, you are scientifically provable as wrong, and as such, should seek to better educate yourself on the matters you speak of.

[Grom-84]

Its a good news if stamina will be removed, because imo its just an annoyance now there is no place for it there, this game isn't Dark Souls to care about such stuff and to be tactical. 

[Mak_Gohae]

1. There are things you should have to manage to provide challenge and things you shouldn't. Moving anywhere at a decent speed seems like something that shouldn't have to be "managed": how much you shoot stuff and how close you are to dying or how many times you can use superpowers are things that should be.

 

Limited sprint has been in games for a while. This is not something unique to Warframe or something that was just created a year back.  You may disagree with it but managing sprint is a norm.

 

 

2. The way one manages stamina right now and "plays the game" is you run, then you copter, then you run, then you copter. Why should that be a thing in the first place?

 

Because that's how it was made by DE. This is not some magical thing that just appeared.

Plus you can jump\slide as well.

 

I mean, it's not an option, it's mandatory if you want to stick with your pals.

 

No. You can jump\slide as well. And i think jump\slide can actually cover more distance but is a bit less controllable.

 

On top of that, certain weapons have a lot better coptering distance than others and that narrows your options.

 

Depends on the person. I dont equip weapons for traveling distance.

 

Sorry, did you want to bring a Scindo to the game? Well, you can, but you won't get any kills with it thanks to the one Valkyr with the Dual Ichors. Tough tooties, guess you didn't learn how to play the (meta)game!

 

How about we remove rushing so there's no rushing?

How about that?

 

The point is that it's not about making the game easier for people who don't know how to copter.

 

Yes i know that's the point but my point is how about we teach people how to play the game instead of removing all stuff that offers a bit of challenge?

 

It's making it so that coptering is a necessary annoyance in the game that forces you to move in an uninteresting way. Yeah, you heard me right. Jumping from wall to wall and slinging across ziplines is a lot more interesting than run+copter because things are actually happening.

 

How about we remove rushing so no one is all worried about being in front?

 

So yeah. Why teach people how to play an annoying and obnoxious part of the game when you could replace it with something designed to be fun, instead of something originating from a bug that means you can't use the weapons you want or move the way you want because it's not inline with the metagame?

 

Well, this thread is about stamina and not about coptering so if they remove coptering i dont care.

The issue here is stamina

 

[THND3RZ]

I would have prefer to have coptering completely removed.

It hurts me a lot when i see i go faster (A LOT faster) by coptering with ZEPHYR instead of using her own abilities...

[Onisa]

How about we remove rushing so there's no rushing?

How about that?

~

 

How about we remove rushing so no one is all worried about being in front?

The only way to do that would be to remove PUGs in general. The only way to guarantee it would be to make the game single player.

 

 

No. You can jump\slide as well. And i think jump\slide can actually cover more distance but is a bit less controllable.

Back when I was a wee Tenno and Arcanes were simply alternate helmets I used to jump/slide before I discovered Dual Ichors.

My maxed Rush Ember Prime could not keep up with Zorencoptering Thrak Rhinos.

[(PSN)Mazda_07_]

I won't miss the coptering. Honestly it should be gone it makes the game seem.... Cheap. And feel a little cheap too. I'm super happy about the stamina thing being gone!

[Mathemagics]

im in for removing copter and stamina, but i will really miss my dark dagger, i only use it for coptering (and small stamina use) and after there is no coptering daggers will become utterly useless. Only reason u would ever use daggers was coptering.

But still im up for changes.

They could make warframes movement speed faster while theyr at it to be on par with loki rhino vanguard helm.

[Tainted_Fox]

you're complaining about a mechanic, thats gonna replaced by another mechanic that has the potential to be better. and you're not only failing but refusing to understand the other sides of other peoples arguments 

Please lock this thread. it isnt going anywhere fast

[rockscl]

equip tipedo, install fury and quickening, get from door to door without any challenge in the process

 

how is that suppossed to be a hard thing to do? 

 

This is a joke right? I dont have head phones so i cant listen, can u explain (please?)
What did they say about that...

 

And, wtf, they will not remove it, they will give us parkour movements that are contextual enough to fulfill coptering usage in wall run chainning while putting, probably, a standard distance to coptering

Edited June 4, 2015 by rockscl

[Kasarian]

Limited sprint has been in games for a while. This is not something unique to Warframe or something that was just created a year back.  You may disagree with it but managing sprint is a norm.

 

Most games - you are playing as human being. Even the most "packed" person can't run longer distance because they are loaded with equipment so they make short sprints to boost their speed and not drop dead from exhaustion in few minutes. That's why in most games you only have short sprints.

 

Warframe - you play as frikin "space ninja" that is also "void mage" which takes tons of equipment with him (weapons, ammo, 10 slots of usables) and doesn't even notice the weight of that...

 

So yeah, Stamina is an outdated mechanic that needs to go away as it only hinders players in movement and not to mention how makes Melee Only needlessly masochistic if you are not using dedicated warframe.

[Crewell]

Coptering is a crap mechanic. Not all weapons copter the same, which puts certains weapons in a 'higher' class for use. Also coptering is used to bypass bad movement mechanics. There is absolutely no reason swinging a melee weapon in midair would or should suddenly propel you forward.

[Mathemagics]

but coptering might be also only bright side of a weapon say daggers, if u remove coptering from it why even ever use it?

 

btw im kinda in the team remove coptering.

 

but i would like to see some intresting buffs on light weapons tho(daggers),not necessarily dmg . Maybe say if u use daggers u run a little faster?

 

PS : make a rambo knife skin for dark daggers please :)

 

EDIT: seems booben 2nd ability becomes even more useless with parkour 2.0

Edited June 4, 2015 by Mathemagics

[Thalahssalyst]

but coptering might be also only bright side of a weapon say daggers, if u remove coptering from it why even ever use it?

 

btw im kinda in the team remove coptering.

 

but i would like to see some intresting buffs on light weapons tho(daggers),not necessarily dmg . Maybe say if u use daggers u run a little faster?

 

PS : make a rambo knife skin for dark daggers please :)

 

EDIT: seems booben 2nd ability becomes even more useless with parkour 2.0

There is no why buff the dagger if they take out coptering, because coptering its still a bug, movement depends of the melee weapons never was intended, there is no why my dark dagger is not anymore for mobility, if that is the purpose of parkour 2.0 take out that lack of balance, if u want mobility use parkour, no melee weapons, if they do that with daggers what is the purpose of making park 2.0 if the people continue xploiting that glitch?