May 19Th: Hot Feedback Topics

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I thought so as well, but that doesn't makes a modicum of sense, so i didn't even considered that to be the case.

yeah, if it's added in addition to the 80% dr, that'd be better (although I hope the amount scales with focus personally, or it'll still feel really low, but I guess 1440 (800 * 1.8) isn't too bad, but it'll still be shredded by high level enemies still)

[Ezekyle_Abbadon]

So i think Nyx has some weird issue when absorb is used ive had enemies take no damage because they got too close or some enemies dont take any damage at all for no reason resulting in a surprise death.

[Renan.Ruivo]

yeah, if it's added in addition to the 80% dr, that'd be better (although I hope the amount scales with focus personally, or it'll still feel really low, but I guess 1440 (800 * 1.8) isn't too bad, but it'll still be shredded by high level enemies still)

Hmm, full invul up to 800 dmg then 80% DR during IS duration. I guess...

Full aggro when IS is on means maximum shreddage, which would in turn nerf Rhino even further than the point he is in right now, when dealing with high level (>30 enemies).

Edited May 22, 2013 by Renan.Ruivo

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Hmm, full invul up to 800 dmg then 80% DR during IS duration. I guess...

-snip-

Full aggro when IS is on means maximum shreddage, which would in turn nerf Rhino even further than the point he is in right now, when dealing with high level (>30 enemies).

no, sorry what I meant was that the 800 shield would gain 80% resistance, makes it better for mid level stuff, but again, at level 30+ it'd be shredded.

[Renan.Ruivo]

no, sorry what I meant was that the 800 shield would gain 80% resistance, makes it better for mid level stuff, but again, at level 30+ it'd be shredded.

Well, but that's basically how it is at the moment isn't?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Well, but that's basically how it is at the moment isn't?

no, because IS adds another 800 shields, right now it only applies 80% dr

[Renan.Ruivo]

no, because IS adds another 800 shields, right now it only applies 80% dr

Ah, so it'd be 800 shields with 80% DR, and after that runs out IR runs out and normal damage begins to pour in?

That's still up for debate, i don't know if it would be balanced or not to be honest. I think that taking damage up to a cap depending on the level - as i originally interpreted - would be better.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Ah, so it'd be 800 shields with 80% DR, and after that runs out IR runs out and normal damage begins to pour in? I would assume so :P but no one is sure if they're adding a damage cap with the 80%, or just a damage cap.

That's still up for debate, i don't know if it would be balanced or not to be honest. I think that taking damage up to a cap depending on the level - as i originally interpreted - would be better. I think invul with a cooldown and/or increased energy and/or reduced duration (pick 2 obv) would be the best.

[Aggh]

Because the old Rhino was broken. You really think 3+ minutes of invincible iron skin is BALANCED?

 

Let me break it down for you.

 

Streamline maxed gives you a power cost of about 40

 

Flow gives you about 275-300 power max

 

Continuity increases the Duration by 3-5 seconds

 

....a team with energy siphon = 2 energy regenerated PER second.

 

...let's see.

 

Say I have a rhino, with 300 energy. Just as an example

 

Ok I cast Iron skin

 

260 energy left, it immediately starts regenerating

 

Ok let's say that iron skin lasts....15 seconds.

 

15 times 2 is 30, so I'd have regenerated 30 energy.

 

I now have 290 energy.

 

Let's say I NEVER picked up an orb (and they're everywhere)

 

if my math is correct, that is THIRTY casts of invulnerability.

 

15 seconds * 4 is equal to a minute

 

15 seconds * 30 casts = 450 seconds.

 

450 seconds = 7.5 minutes.

 

That's 7.5 minutes of invincibility, without touching a single orb.

 

You think that's fair? Balanced?

I know it's fun to feel empowered  but iron skin DESPERATELY needed a rework. If you feel I am wrong, give me a valid point and perhaps I will agree with you, I always welcome second opinions.

 

tl;dr: 7.5 minutes of potential invincibility =/= balanced

Your math is off.  Streamline is a power efficiency mod, not a cost reduction mod.  Iron skin costs 39 energy to cast with maxed streamline.  At best you could get 7 uses with a max flow energy pool.

[FlanShark]

Not looking forward to nothing shooting at me when a rhino's around, although if it really is just going to be an 800hp buffer with no %DR the uptime isn't going to be a big deal.

[K1LLZ0NE]

I would say it is JUST a damage cap.  Otherwise they would have specified.

[Treylorne]

So i think Nyx has some weird issue when absorb is used ive had enemies take no damage because they got too close or some enemies dont take any damage at all for no reason resulting in a surprise death.

 

Wouldn't want the whole thing to be nothing but Rhino posts.

 

Your Absorb only reflects damage taken and it is affected by cover. If no one is shooting you, they don't get the damage and if they are behind cover, same there. If you have a whole lot of chargers on you, some of them won't be hitting you due to them being unable to hit you and hence, no damage reflection on them. 

A fix might be for Nyx to deal a set damage, lower than the other Ultis, with damage dealt to her being added afterwards but the main topics on hand atm are Rhino, Banshee and the market.

[TheaMatticks]

I think the rhino change is interesting, but I think at high levels, it will be meaningless. 800 damage is going to be gone incredibly fast in higher areas, especially if you're drawing aggro. I think it would be a lot better if it scaled to the levels of your enemies, but I can imagine this would be difficult to implement in missions like defense with periodically increasing level ranges. I was personally okay with the damage reduction, provided you had patched in knockback imperviousness(maybe toxic aura also).

I do like the idea of drawing aggro, because it makes rhino feel more like a team character, but I think he's just going to get pooped on if he pulls that at any high level play.

Edited May 22, 2013 by therundown

[Ducant]

i like that there trying to fix rhino but i think it should go back to the way it was with half the duration  or maybe 75% duration and double the cost making it the ultimate

 

i mean rhino is a tank why no tanking ultimate

 

it just seems to me if we go with a number it will take us forever to find a formula to use then after a few patchs and things get harder IS will become useless again

 

also may i call some attention to how bland rhinos powers are just saying they need some attention not saying there useless but besides rhino charge and IS i dont realy use the others

 

also i want better boss AI maybe like some hiding behind crates or ducking behind cover on snowglobes or running away from invinc rhinos till they can smash there face 

 

couldnt harp on rhino only and also im realy looking forward to where they take this game  i just hope they dont try to make every class the same

[Ardhanarishvara]

Full aggro when IS is on means maximum shreddage, which would in turn nerf Rhino even further than the point he is in right now, when dealing with high level (>30 enemies).

I agree. I still figure the best thing to do would add an aggro mechanic to Rhino Blast instead, giving it some utility, but if it's added to Iron Skin then the damage reduction does need to be bigger.

[Scrcrw]

800 damage cap is nothing when fighting high level mobs. They can easily chew through it in a few seconds. So that doesn't sound like a good idea. Even 80% reduction was better but in no way it means that  it's the right way to do it either. This is no MMORPG too, I don't really see a place or the "holy" trinity: dps, tank, healer. How about you bring the old IS back with increased energy costs?

Edited May 22, 2013 by Scrcrw

[GroxXx777]

800 damage cap is nothing when fighting high level mobs. They can easily chew through it in a few seconds. So that doesn't sound like a good idea. Even 80% reduction was better but in no way it means that  it's the right way to do it either. This is no MMORPG too, I don't really see a place or the "holy" trinity: dps, tank, healer. How about you bring the old IS back with increased energy costs?

 

Please PLEASE old Iron Skin back with more energy costs and/or cooldown.

[Maddoc]

I think, my real concern with these and any other changes

 

Is does anyone at DE play test these changes before they go live?

 

I don't want to sound like a $&*^ here, but it is an honest question

 

I can't imagine things like "being staggered while Iron Skin is active" or "Dying just as quickly while taking damage while Iron Skin is active" would not have been found during even a very simple playtest

[PositronicSpleen]

The updates are a good start to the communication process, but there is still a ways to go.

 

Consider, at one point the developers felt that Iron Skin was fine, and it went into the game. What changed since then? Do they feel the game has changed or that they were mistaken to begin with? And what exactly was wrong with it?

 

One cannot give constructive feedback if one does not know the problem. This thread is just a bunch of ideas being thrown around at random because there is no direction to the discussion, we don't know what aspects of it we're trying to change. We want to help, help us help you.

 

Aside from more involved developer communication, we could also use more comprehensive patch notes. I recall this one said something about Banshee's damage being closer to intended, but it didn't say how. More details would be nice, numbers would be fantastic.

[K1LLZ0NE]

I would also like a detailed reason as to why they feel the need to change Iron Skin.  What specifically are they looking for?  We can not hope to come to a good conclusion if we don't know what is wrong.

[Charismo]

"Don't listen to the majority of people affected by the update, listen to the minority not affected by it!"

Please, point out the part of my post where I said that.

Are you saying that people that play Rhino and want it to go back to the way it was present nerf make up the majority of War frames player base?

Don't be an &#!, man. I'm on your side. All I'm saying is that Rhino has potential to be much more fun to play than how we was pre-nerf, and I think DE wants to find a way to do that, even if they have not found that way yet.

[JBurke]

I'm afraid of any new "changes", because right now Banshee has a suicide button and if I need a Rhino I pull out Trinity.

[Seanjuju]

Iron Skin:

:-I feel that Iron Skin should defintely scale to the user in a way. 45-60% of the sum of HP and Shield Values + 300

-A duration solely based on damage taken may be problematic, after 15 seconds, the skin should begin to take constant damage representing a % of the total

-8 seconds of HP protection after the skin is depleted 

Edited May 22, 2013 by Seanjuju

[Thor]

Copy/pasting so I don't need to go typing this all out again:

Something that I think is worth emphasizing: The proposed change to Iron Skin is, in fact, a proposal, not an ironclad (ironskinclad, as Rebecca put it) decision of what'll be done. Balancing is a process - very rarely will you hit the sweet spot on your first try - so to those of you who have submitted constructive and helpful suggestions, please keep it up. You aren't being ignored.

[darkelite625]

We are patiently waiting here DS's.... Can you please at lease give the general public a new deadline for update 8? We do appreciate you and your hard work and we want it to work :) But please understand that you said "we need a few more days" making it seam like it was nearly done, it has been 4 days longer than the original for sure date in the live stream and now more days than the public has expected.... please take this with stride and give us something to work with that way we are not checking every single forum to see if one of you guys said something about a release date! We all appreciate you dearly and we thankyou! Hope to see something on the news page here soon!

-Darkelite625-