Should We Reconsider The Starting Frames?

[(XBOX)Skode]

Ive been thinking about this and feel Mag is a great frame but maybe a bit complicated to get the best out of for complete newbies to the game. When getting a defined starter role the majority of the games have specific archtypes and Warframe is no different in many regards. Naturally with so many some are definitely more for veterans perhaps when you consider the likes of say Trinity the support/healer of the game.

 

Now Excal is actually pretty balanced as is and hes getting buffed in style based on his new ultimate teased on the devstream as well as his pointless super jump becoming a hybrid with another of his skills... ie it will actually now be worth using but for a starter frame i believe in the traditional archtypes offered in games in a Warrior who offered braindead physical attacking from close range, the Ranged character who is a much weaker character in comparison but balances this with being more about agility to make up for low health and can be dangerous from a distance and finally the third class which is usually a middle of the range Balance class which offers support but doesnt excel at either close or range like the other two.

 

I feel Mag is a good character but a bit too complicated to get the best out of for complete newbs of the game... i know DE actually have a tag on her as i recall as being one for more experienced players or something like that in her description but do we NEED to have someone like that on the original 3? I also think Excal with incoming buffs is gonna be TOO good a starter option - hes already well balanced, like volt, but with his new ultimate and Slash Dash eating up Super Jump he is becoming so much better - you could even argue he is becoming worth of being all the way to Pluto via the boss to acquire. I would replace both Mag and Excal but thats just my opinion and yes i know in regards to archtype classes weapons negate things somewhat as everyone can bow or fist as they see fit but im talking purely here on skills and general stats.

 

Warrior - Valkyr should be the starter frame for this type. Shes female so there is a female starter but she is also very simple to pick up and master, her skills offer a variety of options and she can also help starters get through the first few planets perhaps easier than most of us ever did with her invincible fourth. This is not a bad thing IMO and i feel the less frustrated the player the more likely they are to stick around and keep paying/paying or whatever the case may be. Acquisition wise she is early obtainable anyway - its not like were giving new players too big an advantage day one here based on this.

 

Ranged - Volt can remain this type. Again he is very balanced and his skills are all great but he is also very weak and his late game viability because of this can mean he will again not give any newbs a game winning frame day one but should they pick him and master him they CAN really make a stand with him late game - he is THAT balanced even if he doesnt stand out in whatever scenario compared to other options. Playing him will teach newer players most of all the starter frames how to play smart whilst given them outs should it go horribly wrong with a stun power and speed boosted escape and that can only be seen as a good thing. Naturally i cant see anyone arguing against him being a starter frame because... well he already is one.

 

Balanced - Rhino is the obvious choice. He isnt as versatile as Volt and doesnt excel in direct combat like Valkyr does so hes between them both. He is braindead easy to use, his skills are all viable and he will help newer players get through the first few planets to acquire alternate options which is important as hes not really all that viable late game. New players enjoy this frame anyway as he is a tank who allows them to play the way they want to play, early game at least and like Valkyr someone they can even play SOLO with for a bit which can help not make the game so intimidating for newer players. Hes acquired from the very first unlocked planet boss post Vor quest so again its not like we would be making it too easy for newer players as he is very easy to get in the first place.

 

Anyway what is everyone elses opinions on this? It doesnt effect me personally as im about 600 hours into this game but i keep seeing new players struggling to get to grips with the game or beyond that understanding the game but finding progress slow and challenging as the planets/bosses they want elude them as they struggle to get players together to unlock nodes and the likes. Mag players especially moan to me... i can understand i suppose, solo play with junk weapons and imposing Corpus/Grineer enemies would make even me wonder if i could stick this game out to see all it offers! Now i dont know, none of us do really how big these worlds will change after the void blows up which could dramatically alter things but if they stay largely the same as they are but with added drops etc to encourage no longer pigeon holing the userbase i still feel new starter frames should be considered. They did right in the first place by taking Loki away... he was too good for a starter frame, others which could fit the roles specified here like Oberon is also in my opinion too good despite his easy to acquire nature.

[2pro4u.com]

The starting frames are fine as they are now

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

Agreed mag only truly shines if players know the value of her skills and mod her properly and use her skills with the right timing. Excal actually has a variety of complex builds and is versatile and might be hard to fully master for newer players so I do agree that they should not be in the starting 3.

[Kthal]

Excalibur is the poster-child, there is no chance he will be removed as a starter frame, and he works pretty well for most new players I encounter.

 

Mag, yes, is a bit technical, but that's not her problem. The issue with Mag is that she is extremely optimized against the Corpus, and at a strong disadvantage when fighting the Grineer, at least at a beginner level. I would actually consider Trinity a possible alternative, if one is needed, although I would also like to see her abilities reworked/refined.

 

Volt is perfect as a starter frame.

 

Loki was a starter frame, and as a starter frame he was terrible. A very good frame, and rewarding when played well, but simply too advanced for most beginners.

 

 

 

Rhino already encourages bad habits. Having him in the first wave of new frames players have access to works well, but giving him as a starter would cause issues, trivializing the tutorial and not punishing not paying attention. Likewise with Valkyr.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Kthal

[DeltaFox13]

Excalibur and Volt are fine as starters.  I can't really feel out who would be a decent replacement for Mag.  Obviously not any frame requiring a quest.  Should be a female frame and the only one that seems reasonable is Ember.  That does double up on the elemental damage type frames but nothing else seems good for a starter.

[(XBOX)Skode]

Excalibur is the poster-child, there is no chance he will be removed as a starter frame, and he works pretty well for most new players I encounter.

 

Mag, yes, is a bit technical, but that's not her problem. The issue with Mag is that she is extremely optimized against the Corpus, and at a strong disadvantage when fighting the Grineer, at least at a beginner level. I would actually consider Trinity a possible alternative, if one is needed, although I would also like to see her abilities reworked/refined.

 

Volt is perfect as a starter frame.

 

Loki was a starter frame, and as a starter frame he was terrible. A very good frame, and rewarding when played well, but simply too advanced for most beginners.

 

 

 

Rhino already encourages bad habits. Having him in the first wave of new frames players have access to works well, but giving him as a starter would cause issues, trivializing the tutorial and not punishing not paying attention. Likewise with Valkyr.

The thing is when we think of bad habits Rhino will haunt them if they play the one dimensional way players often do (and can early game because he is so easy to get) because they will soon hit a ceiling with him... not just planet unlocking but even other considerations like MR progress, they will have to learn just like everyone else except just with that bit of leeway - something better frames but harder to master frames like Mag or indeed Loki and especially with low access to decent weapons and mod loadouts. Trinity is awsome but can she offer the newest players the help they need - she can self sustain but her complete lack of offense in skills and support heavy nature means she excels in squads not solo play which is what most newest players finding themselves doing before they grow in confidence and run missions/void with the rest of us.

 

Edit - Yes Ember could work. Shes a lot better now than what she was but shes still low tier and not one most of us consider as being all that viable late game so i guess she could be a good option for a starter frame. If she was the token female instead of Valkyr i guess that would mean all three starters have an accessible to them Prime to aim for as well (fall in love with their starter, keep playing to get prime version = everyone wins! Especially if they stop making threads/posting on chat asking for Excal prime haha)

Edited June 7, 2015 by (XB1)Skode

[TheBrsrkr]

I think Banshee might be better than Mag as a starter. Also, Mag parts are among the first Warframe parts you get, so if it's too much of a problem they'll have her anyway.

[Eric1738]

i think they are fine.(not sure about excalibur post-rework). mag well, she is not complicated to use, maybe she requires very specific mods to truly shine, but even without too many mods and much knowledge about the game, she is kinda straightforward.

[Dillon_J]

Ember would be a good starter frame since she doesnt shine in late game.

[TheBrsrkr]

DE forum lag is too OP pls nerf

Edited June 7, 2015 by TheBrsrkr

[Leavith]

I started playing when Loki Mag Excalibur and Rhino were the starting frame i read the description on them and well Loki was consider for advance players so i picked him i been happy with him that i even got primed.

But for starting frame i feel well

Excalibur Banshee Volt and Saryn

should be starting Frame

Well excal(because he was number 1>and still is)

Banshee provides quiet the advancement like loki you have to use banshee right

Volt (range shoots lightning everywhere and helps with shield and stuff)

Saryn all her skill as the player start out are all helpfull

 

Althought we could always do

Frost

Ember

Saryn

Volt

as starting frame

[Im_All_In]

i picked mag when i started, love her right away, her only complex ability was shield polarize, i use pull alot and bullet attractor too.So no changes should be make to be honest, reading the wiki isnt bad for new players

[APBladeX]

Agreed mag only truly shines if players know the value of her skills and mod her properly and use her skills with the right timing. Excal actually has a variety of complex builds and is versatile and might be hard to fully master for newer players so I do agree that they should not be in the starting 3.

Excalibur (especially with his rework) and Volt seem like good starter warframes, but Mag is definitely more difficult to get the hang of. I'd suggest Trinity or Rhino, but that'd require some major changes to the basic mechanics of Warframe, and that's a discussion for another day.

[MagPrime]

Excal, Volt and Mag are good starter 'frames.

 

Excal shines with his AoE Radials, Volt for his shields and speed, Mag for Pull and Shield Pol.  All of those abilities are not faction dependent to be viable.  I think DE should add a 4th starter to the line up, personally. 

 

In the end, all 'frames are a little tricky to learn, but I think almost everyone here has learned how to do it.

[igniz13]

I think Valkyr is a terrible choice for a starter frame, she needs so many mods and most of those are rare. I rushed her when I started the game and she just doesn't work without certain mods.

 

I do think the core 3 should be re-examined as the current crop just don't seem to be that objective. Volt is a weird choice for a starter frame, they have this general versatility like Excal but a similar element focus to Mag and the same fragility. Mag is too focused on magnetic and you really needs mods like many caster focused frames

 

I think the 3 starters should be

 

Excal - the middle man

Frost - durable with strong defence and good utility

Banshee - good caster support who only gets better

Edited June 7, 2015 by igniz13

[CrimsonNightSky]

Volt is a weird choice for a starter frame, they have this general versatility like Excal but a similar element focus to Mag and the same fragility. Mag is too focused on magnetic and you really needs mods like many caster focused frames

    ...

Frost - durable with strong defence and good utility

I feel like volt is one of the most versatile frames. He does a lot of different things with his abilities.

I kinda like the though of frost - he's durable and pretty different in what he brings to the table. Problem is that new players using Frost are gonna be left in the dust.

Edited June 7, 2015 by CrimsonNightSky

[igniz13]

I feel like volt is one of the most versatile frames. He does a lot of different things with his abilities.

I kinda like the though of frost - he's durable and pretty different in what he brings to the table. Problem is that new players using Frost are gonna be left in the dust.

I don't see how Frost players will be left in the dust? He's one of the most sought after frames for low level farming and even entering high level play. Like Banshee, he has a long lifespan potential, more so than volt and mag.

 

I do agree Volt is one of the most versatile frames, but against Mag and Excal, he just seems an odd choice. Get rid of Mag and Excal and you could have say, Ash and i dunno, someone good against Grineer

[torsoreaper]

Mag is one of the best starting frames (I am biased because i started with her) because she has good CC (pull), good surviveability (shield polarize), good boss assassinate ability (bullet attractor), and crush which is fine for cc i guess, i don't really use it.

 

Rhino would be a good starter frame which might fit better than Volt simply because solo is harder with low level volt than Rhino and if they are unlocking the star chart by themselves, Rhino would lend more to that.  However, if/when star chart is going away, this whole conversation changes.

[(PSN)edemel95]

IMO some frames aren't noob-friendly, thus making them truly shine requires a good amount of Forma (resources) and very specific mods (some of which are hard to aquire). However, Excalibur and Volt both are very easy to use, and don't require a good amount of knowleadge and/or mods to make them usefull mid-game. Their abilities are versatile and pretty straightforward.

 

So, to conlude the starter frames should be:

 

-Exalibur/Ash

-Volt

-Zephyr/Oberon

 

Why the last ones? Simple, Oberon is a jack of all trades making him noob-friendly. Since he's got a healing, a simple use ability and an ultimate he summarizes all frames. While Zephyr is hard to love, I think it's a frame that's usefull and fun in the early to mid game. If she isn't available at start, no one would play her if it wasn't for the MR.

[Tesseract7777]

I think that the current starters are all good choices for the beginning. Volt is versatile, and Mag will help a lot getting through some of those early Corpus maps that are often empty and can be tough for newer players. Excal is their poster boy, so he's always going to be a starter. 

 

However, for a game that prides itself on this gender balance, I think it's kind of odd that there are only three starters, with only one female choice. I think instead of changing any of the current starters, one more female option should be added. Perhaps a frame that doesn't get much love, like Banshee. 

 

In fact I think Banshee would be a good choice because she would actually give an option that helps players who want to choose a bow/sniper style, and she is very versatile, so she would help them get through plenty of early missions. Sure, her stats can be squishy, but so are volt's. The other options I'd consider are maybe something like Saryn, but she may teach new players bad habits, same with why I am against Rhino. I think he teaches new players bad habits. 

 

Trinity would be too hard to learn, I think Valkyr is too niche/specialized for a starter, the kind of reason Loki was removed. 

 

This way we would have two males, two females: 

 

Excalibur

Volt / Oberon 

 

Mag

Banshee 

 

The other change I'd consider is, sometimes I wonder if Volt is too advanced for new players. He really is a strategic choice, and can be confusing when starting out to know how best to utilize. Perhaps he should be replaced with Oberon? I've always thought Oberon would be a really good starter choice. 

Edited June 8, 2015 by Tesseract7777

[Acos]

I think Mag is fine. Pull is a very quick and easy to understand crowd control ability well suited to a new player who might not inherently know what they're doing. Shield Polarize has the obvious effect of being a 'self-cure', something new players will benefit from as they are unlikely to know how to evade bullets even if they are good at taking advantage of cover. Bullet Attractor is just... kind of a bad power? Crush however is also very obvious and works well to give the player breathing room. 

Now, this is all a very simple way to play Mag, but I think that's why she is appealing to a newer player; they can learn her more complicated aspects naturally as they play with the frame. Otherwise she's easy and simple enough to be effective without having to really dig into how to play her. 

Volt is much the same way, with each of his abilities offering a different tool, rather than just being progressively more powerful. Shield is good for stopping bullets, speed is good because SPEEEED FOOOORCE, Zappy Bolts is good for zappin, and PIKAAACHUUU is good for getting everyone in the room off your butt. 

 

Excalibur is the go-to melee frame for people who want that, and he's the poster boy for the game.