Leavith Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 WHILE WE ARE ON THE TOPIC OF KUBROWS ......nah i am kidding not gonna make the joke How many warframe abilities require LoS but, however, are affected by range mods? I think everyone else. Furthermore, Mesa will never has any LoS problem, except if you're playing on Earth hidden in a Kubrow den. Well lets just say that the way mesa ulti work is good mechanic and all but i feel like it should give you more freedom really i mean she look as someone mention really robotic maybe just give her as i mention before insane multishot on her 2ndary weapon and a 30% damage buff that is affected by power strength,and well this can basically be in sync with mesa 1st ability i think is the one were you charge damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latronico Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 wow, so Mesa is great for ONE mission type and team combo and she needs to be nerfed because of it? Why not look at the mission and level design? Mesa is far from OP in other missions. She cant outkill Saryn in exterminate ? Saryn is part of the problem too, like every other damage Warframe (Ember included), able to nuke everything untill a certain level, and then turn to crap. And considering that great part of so called 'endgame' are endless missions (Defense, Survival) that are nothing more than camp fair (Defence of course, it's normal, but Survival can be exploited and turned into a Defense mission without any pod)... yes. Mesa have to change because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leoncor Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) I think if they just got rid of aim bot and add actual skill to peacekeeper a lot off issues would be fixed. Mesas design is one of my favorites, sadly she is one of the most boring frames to use. Never understood why they made peacekeeper make you stand in place in a game so revolved around mobility. If that is what you want then the ability should just be removed and replaced completely because without the aimbot it's just going to be extremely useless and mesa would be another oberon situation where you would just turn to other frames to get the job done instead. Also it's peacemaker. Mesa is great for people who wants to get the job done fast. It's definitely not a lot of fun if that is all you use her for but then again if you want to actually have fun you shouldn't play in a Nekros, Mesa, Gmag & Frost group where Mesa is used for quick runs and nothing else. Mesa is a good frame, it's all up to how the player uses her that determine the skill and fun level of her like people here previously posted. Edited June 11, 2015 by Leoncor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosferagon Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 people ruin other people perspectives on mesa. there's a huge difference. try mesa in a regular mission without standing still in the same spot for 10 minutes and you'll see she's extremely fun to play as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I think if they just got rid of aim bot and add actual skill to peacemaker a lot off issues would be fixed. Mesas design is one of my favorites, sadly she is one of the most boring frames to use. Never understood why they made peacekeeper make you stand in place in a game so revolved around mobility. If they do that then they need to make every AoE skill aimable. Radial javelin needs to be aimed at every enemy you want to impale, Molecular Prime needs to be aimed at every enemy you want to coat in anti-matter, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leavith Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 people ruin other people perspectives on mesa. there's a huge difference. try mesa in a regular mission without standing still in the same spot for 10 minutes and you'll see she's extremely fun to play as. Kubrows to you too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmcareen Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 I have used her in other missions, I guess my real problem with her is not her, herself but more how the community uses her. You need people for her in T1D, T2MD, Triton. I got in a T4D about a week ago, buddie straight up said, no mesa or gmag. going to 20. find and dandy. Buddie started looking for a 4th, at LEAST 5 people joined and quit because it wasn't a gmag, mesa set up. the grind doesn't bother me much so if I want to run something and can't get it in recuirting, I will go farm a key for it. I don't care. but like I said, one of my clan, new to warframe, had to go buy a mesa out of the market because he was having so much trouble getting into mission because everyone wanted mesa for everything. no other frame has been this over used(i'm after nova instant MP so don't know about those days) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OumaNoUta Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) If that is what you want then the ability should just be removed and replaced completely because without the aimbot it's just going to be extremely useless and mesa would be another oberon situation where you would just turn to other frames to get the job done instead. Also it's peacemaker. Mesa is great for people who wants to get the job done fast. It's definitely not a lot of fun if that is all you use her for but then again if you want to actually have fun you shouldn't play in a Nekros, Mesa, Gmag & Frost group where Mesa is used for quick runs and nothing else. So basically I'm saying Mesa is a good frame, it's all up to how the player uses her that matters like people here previously posted. Whoops thanks for pointing that out been watching to much Farscape. You have a good point her other skills are fine she is still a decent frame, but peacemaker could be balance in a way without using aim bot. Something as simple as just changing peacemaker to being able to move with maybe a small movement speed buff like chroma gets and having to aim, at the same time being able to still use her other skills while in peacemaker mode. Maybe add some CC to peacemaker. Hell a augment for it, peacemaker now has a x% to ricochet shots towards other enemys. There are many things they could change peacemaker to make it a lot more fun to use and a lot more balanced. Edited June 11, 2015 by OumaNoUta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brahkest Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) I agree with other people, Mesa isn't so much of a problem as the people who constantly need her. Though, it's easy to see how bad it's gotten when you as a player can enter a game as a mesa and immediately get bashed for playing mesa despite not doing the peacemaker spam. I remember a group of newbies I was helping didn't want me to join as soon as they knew I wanted to play mesa. I don't use peacemaker at all (I love running and gunning) but they immediately assumed that I was going to aimbot my way to victory. These guys hated mesa with a passion and that probably stemed from ending up with many, many teams of mesa who aimbotted. I don't think it's mesa too much since she is fun on her own but more of the people who only use her for one thing which can really end up ruining other people's experiences. Maybe it's fun for the farmer, but I've joined countless missions, in pub especially, where I get myself decked out in good gear but end up doing nothing whatsoever. If people were to play mesa without peacemaker, then it'd certainly be more interesting but as it stands, she's known for one thing only which is sad to say because her other abilities are pretty great. Not to say get rid of peacemaker, but tweak it. Edited June 11, 2015 by Brahkest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OumaNoUta Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) If they do that then they need to make every AoE skill aimable. Radial javelin needs to be aimed at every enemy you want to impale, Molecular Prime needs to be aimed at every enemy you want to coat in anti-matter, etc. The difference between those and mesa is mesa is using guns built onto her arms. What is the difference between those guns and the gun i'm using normally? Why don't I have to aim those? Radial Javelin was already balanced to LoS with excal seeing them or the enemy having to see him. MP is a energy field that takes time to expand out. Edited June 11, 2015 by OumaNoUta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 The difference between those and mesa is mesa is using guns built onto her arms. What is the difference between those guns and the gun i'm using normally? Why don't I have to aim those? Radial Javelin was already balanced to LoS with excal seeing them or the enemy having to see him. MP is a energy field that takes time to expand out. thats not a difference at all. It doesnt matter that Mesa uses guns for her ability. Its "magic guns" the same way Excal spawns magic skanas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leavith Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) thats not a difference at all. It doesnt matter that Mesa uses guns for her ability. Its "magic guns" the same way Excal spawns magic skanas. I am sure i am not wrong but correct me Excal summons them all at once to hit the enemy in the LoS.Mesa shoots a bullet at a time and is based on the amount of energy being drained how long this last. their is a difference in how they come to be.Also excal.......was the 1st The difference between those and mesa is mesa is using guns built onto her arms. What is the difference between those guns and the gun i'm using normally? Why don't I have to aim those? Radial Javelin was already balanced to LoS with excal seeing them or the enemy having to see him. MP is a energy field that takes time to expand out. He is right the guns are build onto the arm unlike excalibur who i want to say creates energy in the form of skana to pierce his enemy,might defently be off topic ALTHOUGH I WOULD REALLY LIKE THIS if it could get REWORK to work like Phorid projectile.IT WOULD LOOK SO COOL Excal hits the ground Skana are raise out of the ground he just hit (depending on the enemy of the range) and then they just seek or even disappear as in buzzing fade to make it look like they are moving really fast. But the more we talk about nerfing a power i feel sad i mean people already define mesa on her ulti thats not right SHE IS WARFRAME just like you own kubrow and if you don't i will share my kubrows with you i have 4 Fenrir,Bunny,cerberous,and AsXcE and they are really lovely puppies. Got distracted.just continuation But as i was saying Nerfing her power really won't solve anything after all they will move to the frame before Mesa and then the new battle plan would be 2 saryn 1 nekros and 1 Mag since the frost is to protect the mesa who stuck on the spot all the saryn got to do is set up decoy at the 2 end of the maps and trow their hands up while they play their song.444444.Yeah she does got other skills.and just run back to were the nekros and mag are at and repeat a little bit of more work but work just the same. just an idea If anything making her power more fun and changing community by given them new strategies or keeping things interesting like maybe host your draco with different frame but serve the same purpose just more effictive Nyx(absorb)loki(disarm)Vauben(vortex)and Hydroid(swarm) Nyx will agroo with absorb and loki can help with decoy ANd disarm is to make sure that they don't shoot nyx so when nyx blow not much damage whil vauben begins to capture the enemy in vortex and Hydroid Pilfering swarm more look and just about the same (actaully not as fast but MORE LOOT) (and vauban can always set up bounce at the capture points of the interception to keep the enemy away from those) Edited June 12, 2015 by Leavith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OumaNoUta Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 thats not a difference at all. It doesnt matter that Mesa uses guns for her ability. Its "magic guns" the same way Excal spawns magic skanas. Then her "magic guns" deserve LoS like excals magic swords at the very least. My whole point wasn't to hate on peacemaker, I just think it could be balanced better and made in a way that is a lot more fun to use. Not everyone wants to play lazyframe, and mesa is part of the reason this game is becoming that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8gbMoreRAM Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Hate the player, not the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboDoge Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Hate the player, not the frame. If the tool is broken, you fix it? Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodfireSouls Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I honestly think that Mesa is in a wierd spot. Yes, Peacemaker is ridiculous and overused, but without peacemaker, what would Mesa be? Imo she'd be worthless. Because I don't think her other abilities are all that great at all. If they nerf peacemaker in an attempt to get rid of all the Mesa spam, then she'd just become a useless frame. Her other ablilites are so lackluster that they can't really touch her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I honestly think that Mesa is in a wierd spot. Yes, Peacemaker is ridiculous and overused, but without peacemaker, what would Mesa be? Imo she'd be worthless. Because I don't think her other abilities are all that great at all. If they nerf peacemaker in an attempt to get rid of all the Mesa spam, then she'd just become a useless frame. Her other ablilites are so lackluster that they can't really touch her. They need to make Peacemaker into something that plays well with the rest of her kit. Maybe something like a ranged Hysteria, with the pistols acting like shotguns to promote getting in closer and using Shatter Shield to tank. Something like that. Make them deal finisher damage so they stay competitive. Peacemaker is definitely the odd skill out, and it locks you out of the game besides. It doesn't deserve a nerf though, just a rework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_328 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Not Warframe completely, just the matches where you are not using mesa and want to have some fun instead of watching other players having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radagosh Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Mesas Peacemaker "destroyed" defenses. The new spawnsystem in survivals destroyed the fun in them by creating the camptactic. But hey were all using those 2 things because its easier and less work than actual fighting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leoncor Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Whoops thanks for pointing that out been watching to much Farscape. You have a good point her other skills are fine she is still a decent frame, but peacemaker could be balance in a way without using aim bot. Something as simple as just changing peacemaker to being able to move with maybe a small movement speed buff like chroma gets and having to aim, at the same time being able to still use her other skills while in peacemaker mode. Maybe add some CC to peacemaker. Hell a augment for it, peacemaker now has a x% to ricochet shots towards other enemys. There are many things they could change peacemaker to make it a lot more fun to use and a lot more balanced. Someone else mentioned it but if they were to change Mesa in this way every frame in the game would have to change as well and they would have to rework the entire game even the enemies. If you are looking for more aiming then don't use the 4 use your weapon instead and the other abilities on her. Again it's all about what you do with her that matters. You're not forced to stand still if you don't want to. It could be improved to be more fun yes but it would have to be in other ways where "aiming" is not involved in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmbedFire Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 being the best candidate at any time for taking advantage of a problem does not mean you've created the problem. But there is a problem :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoe Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Corrupt mods raised the ceiling for xtreme max/min-ing. All you need is an ability that can hit stuff hard from far away and carefully max the stats it needs. Excal, Nova, and Saryn have all been buzzwords hyped frames in the past. Mesa's the popular choice right now. she is waiting for her nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)witex25 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Nerf Mesa peacemaker... well now it's time for Greedy pull (actualy i would like that) After this nerf nekros descrate... wait and hydroi p-swarm... ok now let's nerf banshees sonar... ok we must remember of antimater drop... no wait and the mprime... and off course shild polarize... ooh and ireadiating dissarm... no no no invis of loki -remove... Ha warframe gosses trinity nerf EV... Couse we here blessing must be nerf... who have ever seen so much armor on valkyr nerf it now... who who who no more god mode with valkyr as well. .. now lets fix frost globe defs are way to easy... mirage total eclipse...op... chroma...cmon ...ice tank must go... saryn ultimate...yeah yeah this we will nerf to... wtf is wrong with ashes bladestorm...perfect for draco &#! well...remove... what...a smoke screen....nerf totally. .. vauban vortex...have you seen that magic...nerf now... bastille oh yea now we talking nerf... rhino iron skin...wtf remove... rorar...no no no stop it now... ok i will stop here for now i got bored... if you all nerf lovers dont like warframe "balance" go to fuc@#$ ng destiny...you happy now...after all this post im gueasing that is the flexibility in game you are looking for. post after post, always the same, trinity, nova, excal, mesa, no worries after that the time will come for others frames. It's just the matter of time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OumaNoUta Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Someone else mentioned it but if they were to change Mesa in this way every frame in the game would have to change as well and they would have to rework the entire game even the enemies. If you are looking for more aiming then don't use the 4 use your weapon instead and the other abilities on her. Again it's all about what you do with her that matters. You're not forced to stand still if you don't want to. It could be improved to be more fun yes but it would have to be in other ways where "aiming" is not involved in my opinion. What I said was just an idea, I not sure why you think they would have to change the enemy's or rework the entire game because of it. I also shouldn't have to sacrifice one of my ability's because I don't want to stand still and have an aim bot play for me.I don't know about you but I enjoy this game because it's fun, not to stand in one place and let a greedy mag pull me items and power while i hold down my right mouse button. Also like I said before what is the difference between the guns mounted on her arms and the gun in her hand? I think "aiming" should be a part of the skill, "magic space guns" isn't a excuse. I'm not saying she has to be nerfed or balanced to have to aim, that's just what I would like to see and it would make more since to me, while also making a lot more interesting and fun to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)jwernecke Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Being that Mesa has had zero effect on me or my gameplay i'd say no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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