Guides Of The Lotus ~ Program Launch Replies (Split From Original Faq)

[LordOda]

Pleasure to finally see the program go full-steam ahead. :)

 

Looking forward to seeing you all in game.

[(PSN)gethinle12]

Hi there, 

welcome to the program, I do hope to see you about sometime :)

 

EDIT

A huge thanks to the awesome Tenno below for providing a positive, helpful attitude in the Relay, 

good stuff people :)

 

This also shows that the Guides are making a difference, keep it up people.

Oh look who's there again lol

[Constellation294]

This is interesting. I still don't quite have a grasp on the game and hope to get better.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

This is interesting. I still don't quite have a grasp on the game and hope to get better.

Welcome to Warframe!

I encourage you to visit the regional chat or one of the relays and look for one of the guides. They'll help get you started.

[(PSN)Viggorrah]

I know a new junior guide is added once a month for consoles, but how often do you think there will be a new senior guide?

 

I only ask because trolls like to pop out of the walls a lot when Guides are there; while Junior Guides can/surely do report them and make sure that they'll get what's coming to them eventually...that still leaves the troll(s) there in the meantime, doing their thing and disrupting the chat.

 

It's through no fault of theirs, but the current senior guides on PS4 are on less often than their junior counterparts (please don't take this as saying they're not doing enough, because that's not at all what I'm saying; you do great work, Devoid and Crackle!) and at the same time, they can't be online all the time either. It's just sometimes their kick/ban powers are sorely needed when they happen to not be around. Them trolls be persistent, man.

Edited July 29, 2015 by (PS4)Viggorrah

[(XBOX)SylvEmily]

If I made it in, it'd be a nice way to aid & help new players. I already try, but with the ordeal of them calling me a troll...

[(XBOX)xXx STR1FE xXx]

Promoting a Junior Guide to the position of Senior takes some time and dedication. I know exactly how you feel because theclinton is the only XB1 Senior Guide and he is not able to get on all the time. As a Junior Guide myself, I know the frustration that can be caused by trolls and others of the sort. It just takes time. DE needs to be careful who they pick, and to make sure that the person in mind to be a Senior Guide is the right choice, as they will be practically representing DE. If they chose someone who completely just destroyed the protocol and guidelines after becoming a Senior Guide, it could be devastating to the folks at DE.

[(XBOX)SylvEmily]

Promoting a Junior Guide to the position of Senior takes some time and dedication. I know exactly how you feel because theclinton is the only XB1 Senior Guide and he is not able to get on all the time. As a Junior Guide myself, I know the frustration that can be caused by trolls and others of the sort. It just takes time. DE needs to be careful who they pick, and to make sure that the person in mind to be a Senior Guide is the right choice, as they will be practically representing DE. If they chose someone who completely just destroyed the protocol and guidelines after becoming a Senior Guide, it could be devastating to the folks at DE.

Hey Strife!

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

-snip-

I agree entirely.

I may be on 5 hours a day, at most, but I can't always be around, and I have several more responsibilities than just sitting in the chats.

I'll admit. We're overwhelmed.

PC has about 20 Senior Guides, and they are overwhelmed.

There are a few guys here I would trust entirely with these sorts of powers. If we think about it, if we want to believe 15k players are on on a good day, we are in charge of 7.5k players each?

True, the chats edge probably more around 1000 players, but regardless, 1000 players to take care of? Without any tools like the Report Center, permanent text entries, warning systems and easy navigation, we may as well be throwing buckets of water on an oil fire.

The fact that we have to switch regions to take care of something elsewhere is the most inconveniencing thing.

True, Guides aren't meant to be a police force. It's a secondary thing that helps take care of the chats, but should it be included, it should be utilized.

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

True, Guides aren't meant to be a police force. It's a secondary thing that helps take care of the chats, but should it be included, it should be utilized.

Could you remind me where it says Junior Guides are supposed to reinforce the law? All I've seen from the Guides so far is them constantly reminding region chat that they're a guide and should be taken seriously, and trying to police everything with threats of taking screenshots. It's really annoying, doesn't solve anything, and has basically turned the toxic player base more toxic, and their hate directed at them. (Obviously talking from an Xbox standpoint, Guides are constantly being attacked for being "snitches")

I honestly don't care about the Guides, I'd never wear the emblem anyways when I can wear something I like, but I saw it as an opportunity for new players to get help - despite the fact that the Guides are poorly advertised and new players don't actually know what they are. But right now it's extremely pointless, and is a flawed solution for players to get help.

That being said, maybe the program will actually advance into something worth the time and effort of guides, and maybe should be given 10 minute chat timeouts to silently eliminate toxicity without starting a riot everywhere they type.

[Jukantos]

Ima go hang out in Larunda, if it lets me connect today. The 3 times i went there to help so far (EU), no guide of the lotus was present. I'll throw my hat in the ring and just do it, adressed or not :-)

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Could you remind me where it says Junior Guides are supposed to reinforce the law? All I've seen from the Guides so far is them constantly reminding region chat that they're a guide and should be taken seriously, and trying to police everything with threats of taking screenshots. It's really annoying, doesn't solve anything, and has basically turned the toxic player base more toxic, and their hate directed at them. (Obviously talking from an Xbox standpoint, Guides are constantly being attacked for being "snitches")

I honestly don't care about the Guides, I'd never wear the emblem anyways when I can wear something I like, but I saw it as an opportunity for new players to get help - despite the fact that the Guides are poorly advertised and new players don't actually know what they are. But right now it's extremely pointless, and is a flawed solution for players to get help.

That being said, maybe the program will actually advance into something worth the time and effort of guides, and maybe should be given 10 minute chat timeouts to silently eliminate toxicity without starting a riot everywhere they type.

You mean this one?

"Q: Do they have a special connection to the Dev team?

A: Similarly to our Community Moderators on the Forums, Guides forward bug reports and any player-related issues to the Community Team. They do not participate in discussions with the Developers regarding content, updates, and/or general changes to the game. The only exception are suggestions of improvements for the program which are only discussed between the Guides and the Community Team."

Player-related issues do and would include issues regarding abusive and toxic behaviors in chats. With very little moderation support, I'm sure our Juniors on XB1 are trying the best they can to assist the chats in being a friendly place to discuss, learn, recruit, and trade.

Should the Guides be constantly berated for trying to enforce standard rulings, and provide a friendly chat environment, then the blame for the berating lies with those who are doing the berating. As an example, bullying someone with the excuse "Well they asked for it" has never flown in any sort of civilized place I've seen, and it doesn't here.

If our Guides are intentionally provoking users, and driving the chats into toxicity, maliciously, then there is every right to contact Support at support.warframe.com to report these Guides, as outlined in this FAQ. The "Advertising and Community" section and the category "Guides of the Lotus".

I see, "It's extremely pointless", "flawed", but I see no reason as to why either of these things are true. Yes, it's true that the Guides are currently poorly advertised, which I assume is the reason these Guides on XB1 advertise themselves. And yes, it is also true newer players have little way to learn of these Guides, which is, again, the reason I assume they advertise themselves.

But "pointless" and "flawed" are very strong attack words with very little explanation, reasoning, and suggestions. Without those, this conclusion seems more out of personal opinion rather than thoughtful analysis.

If you have feedback on the system, and how it can improve, I'd love to see it. This program is still in its infacy, and communication, structure, etiquette, and enactment is all being fine-tuned and tested.

Chat moderation powers are disabled for Junior Guides, I assume, as a preventative measure to dissuade the abuse of a power such as that. As we observe their behaviors, attitudes, and overall activity, promotions to these positions can be better considered and trusted.

ComMods were already trusted with these powers on the forums and had been granted immediate access as Senior Guides, while the select few "Test" Junior Guides remained as Juniors until DE thought it appropriate and correct to promote these Guides to Seniors.

This same sort of system will be used for our current Junior Guides.

Regarding a 10 minute chat suspension, chat moderators have the ability to kick, or suspend for 1 hour, 1 day, or 1 week, while DE can assign these times themselves at their leisure. In my experience, a kick isn't a proper timeout, and hour bans are too harsh for many minor offences.

I'd enjoy a 5 minute suspension, and perhaps other scaling times, though these sorts of things are not of the highest priority especially with U17 and the console builds being so close.

[(PSN)Sreza]

Devoid is right, chat on ps4 is basically the Wild West unless 1 of our 2 mods spends all their time policing them, which I imagine quickly leads to no fun at all since they can't actually play the game for however much time they can even devote to being on warframe on a given day. We need more guides, and giving them access to a short term suspension while leaving long bans in senior hands sounds like a good balance between trusting powers onto someone and preventing abuse.

[Sibernetika]

eh I missed it on the PC EU region when a Dev like Skree was keeping an eye on us you could get the turn off, of went to far, and knew you would be tempting your luck if you crossed it, but with theses "guides" you haven't even seen the sign board  to the "went to far turn off" before you get whacked with the suspension hammer...

[(PSN)Quo_Tee]

I know a new junior guide is added once a month for consoles, but how often do you think there will be a new senior guide?

 

I only ask because trolls like to pop out of the walls a lot when Guides are there; while Junior Guides can/surely do report them and make sure that they'll get what's coming to them eventually...that still leaves the troll(s) there in the meantime, doing their thing and disrupting the chat.

 

It's through no fault of theirs, but the current senior guides on PS4 are on less often than their junior counterparts (please don't take this as saying they're not doing enough, because that's not at all what I'm saying; you do great work, Devoid and Crackle!) and at the same time, they can't be online all the time either. It's just sometimes their kick/ban powers are sorely needed when they happen to not be around. Them trolls be persistent, man.

This is one of my main reasons for why there should be more senior guides, I can't tell you how many times I've entered a relay and people were being offensive to others and the junior guides were standing there because they were powerless and couldn't kick the trolls but only could report them

[(PSN)Quo_Tee]

I'd enjoy a 5 minute suspension, and perhaps other scaling times, though these sorts of things are not of the highest priority especially with U17 and the console builds being so close.

Honestly I'm surprised that there isn't even a 5 minute suspension in the first place

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

You mean this one?

"Q: Do they have a special connection to the Dev team?

A: Similarly to our Community Moderators on the Forums, Guides forward bug reports and any player-related issues to the Community Team. They do not participate in discussions with the Developers regarding content, updates, and/or general changes to the game. The only exception are suggestions of improvements for the program which are only discussed between the Guides and the Community Team."

Player-related issues do and would include issues regarding abusive and toxic behaviors in chats. With very little moderation support, I'm sure our Juniors on XB1 are trying the best they can to assist the chats in being a friendly place to discuss, learn, recruit, and trade.

Should the Guides be constantly berated for trying to enforce standard rulings, and provide a friendly chat environment, then the blame for the berating lies with those who are doing the berating. As an example, bullying someone with the excuse "Well they asked for it" has never flown in any sort of civilized place I've seen, and it doesn't here.

If our Guides are intentionally provoking users, and driving the chats into toxicity, maliciously, then there is every right to contact Support at support.warframe.com to report these Guides, as outlined in this FAQ. The "Advertising and Community" section and the category "Guides of the Lotus".

I see, "It's extremely pointless", "flawed", but I see no reason as to why either of these things are true. Yes, it's true that the Guides are currently poorly advertised, which I assume is the reason these Guides on XB1 advertise themselves. And yes, it is also true newer players have little way to learn of these Guides, which is, again, the reason I assume they advertise themselves.

But "pointless" and "flawed" are very strong attack words with very little explanation, reasoning, and suggestions. Without those, this conclusion seems more out of personal opinion rather than thoughtful analysis.

If you have feedback on the system, and how it can improve, I'd love to see it. This program is still in its infacy, and communication, structure, etiquette, and enactment is all being fine-tuned and tested.

Chat moderation powers are disabled for Junior Guides, I assume, as a preventative measure to dissuade the abuse of a power such as that. As we observe their behaviors, attitudes, and overall activity, promotions to these positions can be better considered and trusted.

ComMods were already trusted with these powers on the forums and had been granted immediate access as Senior Guides, while the select few "Test" Junior Guides remained as Juniors until DE thought it appropriate and correct to promote these Guides to Seniors.

This same sort of system will be used for our current Junior Guides.

Regarding a 10 minute chat suspension, chat moderators have the ability to kick, or suspend for 1 hour, 1 day, or 1 week, while DE can assign these times themselves at their leisure. In my experience, a kick isn't a proper timeout, and hour bans are too harsh for many minor offences.

I'd enjoy a 5 minute suspension, and perhaps other scaling times, though these sorts of things are not of the highest priority especially with U17 and the console builds being so close.

In my opinion it is pretty pointless, there's alway help right on the forums and on consoles, typing takes a year. So it would be easier to go to the forums.

Like I said, permitting minor timeouts to deal with toxicity would be nice, and maybe the addition of in-game GoTL information and purple text will solve some of my complaints.

Right now GoTL are just a target and an easy one.

[(PSN)Ze_LoBoToMiZeUr]

I agree with the fact we could have something for deal with trolls ans flamers, unfortunately "a great power necessarily implies great responsibility" and therefore this power is given to seniors only, cause they are trustable, juniors like me must prove theirself for get this title and prove they can handle a chat without excesses and keep calm.

[magusat999]

warning points qualification too strict :P 

 

anyway, lets hope this doesnt re-ignite Larunda spam

What I was thinking - especially because Warning Points never expire, so if someone made some mistakes two years ago they continue to be judged and limited by those old errors due to the never expiring Warning Point system - no matter how much they may have changed since then.

[(XBOX)SwagScapegoat]

I know a new junior guide is added once a month for consoles, but how often do you think there will be a new senior guide?

 

I only ask because trolls like to pop out of the walls a lot when Guides are there; while Junior Guides can/surely do report them and make sure that they'll get what's coming to them eventually...that still leaves the troll(s) there in the meantime, doing their thing and disrupting the chat.

 

It's through no fault of theirs, but the current senior guides on PS4 are on less often than their junior counterparts (please don't take this as saying they're not doing enough, because that's not at all what I'm saying; you do great work, Devoid and Crackle!) and at the same time, they can't be online all the time either. It's just sometimes their kick/ban powers are sorely needed when they happen to not be around. Them trolls be persistent, man.

I am fairly new so I wanted to get some time under my belt before commenting.

 

I make it to the relay a couple times a day and have been trolled about 35% of the time, helpful 25% of the time and ignored the remaining 40%. Honestly, being trolled does not bother me all that much.  Being a father of three teenagers.....I am trolled 24/7 365.25 lol.

 

I just ignore the trolls most of the time but every once in a while use a deflecting comment......like "I can't help you with that".

 

I have been asked a question only on about 25% of my visits.  I ask that the person PM me so that they are not afraid of the trolls interjecting.

 

Honestly,  It would be nice to get rid of the trolls but I think our focus should be more on how we can help more players.  The goal has to be to get and keep people interested in the game.  I am more concerned about the 40% of the time I am ignored.

 

Many of these newer players aren't even used to the Chat interface with which they have to use to ask a question.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

What I was thinking - especially because Warning Points never expire, so if someone made some mistakes two years ago they continue to be judged and limited by those old errors due to the never expiring Warning Point system - no matter how much they may have changed since then.

Please see the OP again:

"- You are active on the official Warframe Forums and have no more than 1 warning points on your profile (30-Day temporary warning points will not count if they have expired). *Note: This is not a necessary requirement, but a solid reputation definitely helps!"

This isn't a strict and necessary requirement, but it is definitely considered.

Of course, you may also discuss your warnings with the forum staff.

[Rexian]

Ima go hang out in Larunda, if it lets me connect today. The 3 times i went there to help so far (EU), no guide of the lotus was present. I'll throw my hat in the ring and just do it, adressed or not :-)

 

You could come see me during the afternoon/evening, I'm normally in the relay inbetween 14:00-02:00 (UTC+1) if I'm at the PC whole day.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Rexian

[magusat999]

On another subject - I think the requirement that the Guides be experienced and show knowledge of Warframe should be much stricter. They SHOULD know an extensive amount about Warframe, and this knowledge should be tested not just by observing them on the forums, but by a test of some sort after they have been chosen as candidates (not saying this isn't happening, just my 3 cents in case it isn't). They should also learn how to communicate in a CS friendly manner, and how to answer question - even when they do not know the answer.

 

I had a grape text answer a question about Conclave - which was not specifically posted to him in the first place "I don't know 'cause I don't play that...". Makes me wonder why was he chosen if he hasn't even tried all aspects of the game. All guides and moderators who present themselves as advisers should know EVERYTHING about Warframe (not tricks glitches and easter eggs, but the plain vanilla info about the game and rules).

[(XBOX)LordPuck]

On another subject - I think the requirement that the Guides be experienced and show knowledge of Warframe should be much stricter. They SHOULD know an extensive amount about Warframe, and this knowledge should be tested not just by observing them on the forums, but by a test of some sort after they have been chosen as candidates (not saying this isn't happening, just my 3 cents in case it isn't). They should also learn how to communicate in a CS friendly manner, and how to answer question - even when they do not know the answer.

 

I had a grape text answer a question about Conclave - which was not specifically posted to him in the first place "I don't know 'cause I don't play that...". Makes me wonder why was he chosen if he hasn't even tried all aspects of the game. All guides and moderators who present themselves as advisers should know EVERYTHING about Warframe (not tricks glitches and easter eggs, but the plain vanilla info about the game and rules).

Just out of curiousities sake, what Rank would you expect a player to be from Conclave? I personally dont play Conclave either, on Xbox1. Nothing against DE, but Im tired of years pvp player balance arguements. Thats why I rarely post in the PvP feedback section.

Would this disqualify me to be promoted, based on what you say?

[Rexian]

On another subject - I think the requirement that the Guides be experienced and show knowledge of Warframe should be much stricter. They SHOULD know an extensive amount about Warframe, and this knowledge should be tested not just by observing them on the forums, but by a test of some sort after they have been chosen as candidates (not saying this isn't happening, just my 3 cents in case it isn't). They should also learn how to communicate in a CS friendly manner, and how to answer question - even when they do not know the answer.

 

I had a grape text answer a question about Conclave - which was not specifically posted to him in the first place "I don't know 'cause I don't play that...". Makes me wonder why was he chosen if he hasn't even tried all aspects of the game. All guides and moderators who present themselves as advisers should know EVERYTHING about Warframe (not tricks glitches and easter eggs, but the plain vanilla info about the game and rules).

With every updated the game changes, that being said there's things that you won't keep track of that easily when everything starts to pile up. Everything from the Kohm being changed in its way of fire to if certain Conclave mods are usable outside of conclave.

As much as Guides are experienced, knowing every little detail is going to simply be impossible, doesn't matter how dedicated you are to the program and learning about the game. You'll run into a question sooner or later where you go "Hm..." for a while.

 

I can personally say I've learnt more about the game (Minor details like how something effects something else) and how certain thing works as well as about the community since I started helping people actively than my entire time spent playing it. You're one person having your experience of the game and there's quite the load of people who've had theirs. There'll be those who makes you go "Wow... You're really thinking outside of the box".

I simply believe your demand is a bit too much. But about the rules and guidelines Guides should know without hesitation to me at least.

 

I've played conclave and I sometimes go on it, but I'm not maxed out in the syndicate meaning I don't have all the mods. would that disqualify me from being a Guide because I'm missing 0,5% content of the game, meaning I cannot answer all questions about them without looking it up?

Edited July 29, 2015 by Rexian

[Aigloblam]

Personally, I wonder why I wasn't contacted about this. I have over 2500 hours in mission (Not steam, actual game play hours, 89d 15hr listed on my account, +370 i had before the stat reset waaaaay back in like, U7) and 4303 in Steam. The vast majority of that time out of mission time was hanging around in relays or region chat, Helping people to the best of my ability. I'm also leader of a Storm Clan and a 15 clan Alliance who's main purpose is now and has always been to help people. I've spoken with several moderators, and members of DE Staff, and a whole long list of other stuff. I keep seeing a really low (to most vets) in-game time talked about, and I'm just curious why neither me, nor some of my friends (at least 15 of which are MR19s, also with 2k+ hours in-game, and Council Members, More than a couple are Moderators) haven't been given so much as an offer. It would just make sense to have some of the real old-school players in the Guides, so that they not only have a grasp of current game play, but a working knowledge of how the game has evolved in the past, Where it came from. I'm on a Minimum of 5 hours a day, every day. I have nothing left to do in the game, so Helping People is what I do, and what I will continue to do for a very long time to come, Guide or not. Please don't take this as bragging, or anything like it. I'm just genuinely curious as to the criteria that DE is looking for, If we don't fit the bill.

Edit: Spoken with Staff and Moderators about random other things, Never about the Guides. It would be in very poor taste indeed to beg for a spot.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Aigloblam