Why Not Design Your Game Around The Way You Actually Want It Played For Once. (No Tl;dr)

[KoinDuo]

gl getting DE to change the entire game model and making less of a profit from the lessened farming going on :p

[Ydeirt]

I'm but a simple man, i see an awesome idea, i upvote.
I agreed with OP, would like to see DE implements even just a tiny bit of it time by time.
I too myself hate 4 spamming entire game, even excalibur love to spam the S#&$ out of his 4 this days which is kinda ruining gameplay + that annoying sound.
It just feels like those nice guns and blades design goes to waste.
 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

The OP told the story of what he wants the gameplay to be like.

I'm.... not sure what that has to do with that I said.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Who cares. They are more effective at killing, so they made it more likely that you would get that part you have never been able to get.

 

That said.  It would be nice if enemies started out at a higher level and scaled slower. (I wish T4 enemies started at and stayed at level 50.)

[climatiseur]

I actually think different types of enemies should also have different types of abilities resistance.

 

Eg. Manics - resistance to psychic effects

Bombard kind of heavy units- resistance to Knock down effects

Drahk master and Drahk, Drones: Can sense invisible targets and has attack priority on those targets

Shield lancer: Shield can block most kind of range abilities

Most close combat units: Resistance to Stun effects

robotics: resistance to radiation and psychic effects

 

etc etc. And their resistance get stronger with levels.

 

I think that's one of the major problems of enemies varieties : They have various attack means, but lack different defense means. Given that our abilities are so strong, I think it is not too much to give each type of enemy 1 to 2 ability resistance. So the combat will be more cooperative and tactical.

 

I must say I didn't read the whole post. However I skimmed through and believe I share most of your thoughts.

[SiiNN321]

I do love Nova Prime and her number 4 ablilty. I mod it for speed and use the ability whenever I feel them getting dull. Then do it for every moment after that. I promise you that as long as you are playing with capable people, this will add a new fun scope to warframe

[Liminal]

I agree with the op on the fact that the game pushes you towards doing the same thing over and over, which gets repeititve and boring and means you end up looking for the most time-efficient way to get it over with. What's the most efficient thing? Usually spamming 4 and/or rushing like mad.

 

To me, the core gameplay has turned into an afterthought and the only way to reach my goals is by enduring boredom and hoping I get what I'm after before I burn out.

 

Seriously, avoiding burn-out is the biggest challenge in warframe.

[ThePresident777]

0)  The title says (No Tl;dr).  The OP has been edited to add a TL;DR.

 

 

1)  The title say "Why Not Design Your Game Around The Way You Actually Want It Played For Once" while the OP complains about having to slaughter hordes of enemy for loot when the fact of the matter is that DE stated publicly more than 2 years ago that the Core of Warframe is 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army:

Warframe: Developer Q&A , Answer to Question 4:

The core is the 4 guys against a massive army.  And, generally speaking, they are devastating. The core is not something like in Gears of War where the one on one is something a bit more balanced.  One Space Ninja against a whole ship of Grineer is the idea.  But, that needs to be balanced by boss battles, and by like desperate scenarios.  But, generally speaking, the whole idea of it, even an old ninja (right?) is that the untrained militia get devastated by a single one.

 

 

2)  If one wanted to make a case for combos that work with 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army, it wasn't helped by complaining about 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army.

 

 

3) The reason why the first 30 minutes of Survival is boring is because DE nerfed the spawner.  It doesn't resupply the map with enemy when they  are destroyed, like it used to.  So, the faster the enemy die, the more down time there is now where as the spawner used to respawn enemy as fast as they died, if not faster.  And when the squad is in more than one room, the spawn code just shuts down.  It wasn't like that before at all.  Survival used to be a fun and fast paced mission.  Now it's another pod sitting wave based mission like defense except it's not so obvious.  And people think that Tenno are OP because of it when it's not the Tenno that are out of whack, it's the nerfed spawn code that DE broke last year without anyone asking them to.

 

 

4)  That warframe trailer (that is so commonly used on these forums to claim how the game is meant or aught to be played) ironically shows the enemy incapable of using cover and mindlessly trying to pile on the Tenno while the Tenno seem to be lathered in bullet repellant and don't know anything about cover either.  The only thing resembling a combo move there is Rhino Stomp followed by Slash Dash, something possible in Warframe since before the trailer.

[vaugahn]

1)  The title say "Why Not Design Your Game Around The Way You Actually Want It Played For Once" while the OP complains about having to slaughter hordes of enemy for loot when the fact of the matter is that DE stated publicly more than 2 years ago that the Core of Warframe is 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army:

 

What did they mean by this then?

 

We understand that Mag and Draco have become synonymous with easy grinding, and while we will never object to players finding optimized ways of earning experience and items this current meta is counter-intuitive to how we believe Warframe should be enjoyed. For now, our team has formally announced:

 

It's almost like that quote you love pasting around doesn't mean at all what you think it means. 

[Feallike]

Uhm sorry but we can't really reduce RNG or we would get every drop in a single day. :) Thanks to the inbalance of weapons and movement speed if the DE reduced RNG we would have everything in the rotation in hours. 

 

You have to take into account farmers like Draco who exploit ways to farm a single enemy a thousand times over. You can't just give a enemy a high drop rate on a good item and think it will be hard to get. 

 

Until the DE balances weapon damage, and our ability to finish missions fast we can't have anything but the system we have now or we would be able to finish the game and all its content in under a week.

 

Not saying I don' t agree with what your saying, I would love almost everything you said.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Feallike

[ThePresident777]

https://warframe.com/news/devstream-55-overview:

 

Greedy Pull

We understand that Mag and Draco have become synonymous with easy grinding, and while we will never object to players finding optimized ways of earning experience and items this current meta is counter-intuitive to how we believe Warframe should be enjoyed. For now, our team has formally announced:

• Mag's Greedy Pull will be seeing a change in the near future.
• We want to keep functionality but minimize any potential abuse.
• Adding cooldowns are not a solution, we want something that works without limiting playstyles through cooldowns.

 

It means something that has nothing to do with the OP.  They're going to nerf Greedy Pull.

 

They'll probably kill Draco too for good measure.  But, DE is the one who gave Draco the best affinity in all of Ceres, in the entire star chart even, instead of making all Ceres nodes equally good for affinity.  They'll find another node to make into the go to place.  Then wait 6 months to nerf that.  Then make another node into the go to place.  Then wait 6 months to nerf that. Then ........  DE always creates The One True Node some where in the Star Chart, always a small pod baby sitting map.  Then, takes a stand against their creation, then quietly opens another one, rinse and repeat.  The Star Chart is riddled with the silent wreckage: cyath, viver, kappa, cambria, ........

 

The irony of it all is that DE could have made it all very eventful, an opportunity for Lore, like the destruction of the Relays.  Instead they decided to unceremoniously nerf to the cries of the vocal minority ("be brave DE be brave", they say).  That's what passes for evolution around here.  That is Warframe's Lore:  create high powered content, nerf, create high powered content, nerf, ................. without end.  The majority who enjoy the high powered content are always having it ripped out of their hands because a vocal minority said so and DE creates more high powered content despite what the vocal minority said they wanted.  It's a rotten way to do business.

Edited July 2, 2015 by ThePresident777

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Drahk master and Drahk, Drones: Can sense invisible targets and has attack priority on those targets

No, it complete counters the reason to use the invisibility powers in the first place.  There should never be a hard counter to specific 10-o powers.  It should always be indirect, such as nullifier bubbles or AoE attacks targeted at where they heard the invisible character firing from.

[vaugahn]

It means something that has nothing to do with the OP.  They're going to nerf Greedy Pull.

 

Read very close:

 

"this current meta is counter-intuitive to how we believe Warframe should be enjoyed". 

 

You post in defense of the current meta, using a quote as what you claim is proof that wiping hordes of enemies with the touch of a button is how the game is supposed to be. That quote directly discredits that notion.

 

Your quote does not mean what you think it means.

[ThePresident777]

Warframe: Developer Q&A , Answer to Question 4 means exactly what it says:  4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army is the core of Warframe.  Draco is something else entirely.  Draco is pod sitting in a tiny map.  The same game play DE has been defending for nearly two years now by moving it around the Star chart, giving it the best rewards, and creating more pod sitting Tenno content all the time (Mesa, Frost, etc.), while nerfing Survival and everything else Space Ninja.  DE never allows true competition between play styles, etc.  It never gives equal rewards to both Space Ninja and Space Camper, letting the payers decide for themselves individually which they prefer to do, Space Camp of Space Ninja.  It always tilts the playing field in favor of Space Camper.

Edited July 2, 2015 by ThePresident777

[MalaVolpe]

I agree with OP.

[Eyeless]

0)  The title says (No Tl;dr).  The OP has been edited to add a TL;DR.

 

What else is going to get people ready for a long read?  You're seriously going to pick a fight about that? That seems to be all you're here to do.

 

 

1)  The title say "Why Not Design Your Game Around The Way You Actually Want It Played For Once" while the OP complains about having to slaughter hordes of enemy for loot when the fact of the matter is that DE stated publicly more than 2 years ago that the Core of Warframe is 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army:

 

You're either going out of your way to misinterpret things so you can argue or you really lack reading comprehension. I didn not complain about the need to kill hordes. I replied to you directly when you said my guff was something completely different that it was the fact that bringing in someone who just blindly nukes everything with 4 spam keeps me from having anything to do in the same tile.

 

That gets boring.  Get it? 

 

I then went on to address what my actual issue with the game was. Yet you seem to conveniently skip over everything I reply to you with so you can ignorantly state I have an issue with something I never had an issue with.  

 

2)  If one wanted to make a case for combos that work with 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army, it wasn't helped by complaining about 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army.

 

Again not comprehending the point of my OP

 

3) The reason why the first 30 minutes of Survival is boring is because DE nerfed the spawner.  It doesn't resupply the map with enemy when they  are destroyed, like it used to.  So, the faster the enemy die, the more down time there is now where as the spawner used to respawn enemy as fast as they died, if not faster.  And when the squad is in more than one room, the spawn code just shuts down.  It wasn't like that before at all.  Survival used to be a fun and fast paced mission.  Now it's another pod sitting wave based mission like defense except it's not so obvious.  And people think that Tenno are OP because of it when it's not the Tenno that are out of whack, it's the nerfed spawn code that DE broke last year without anyone asking them to.

 

It's boring because of what other people think is boring, it's boring for different reasons depending on who you talk to. 

 

A lot of people's gripes with it seems to be that it's a total cake walk for the first 20 minutes and the enemies take even less effort to take down than say, in a T4 exterminate. 

 

I can agree with you that the spawn rate at start up is pretty abysmal.

 

4)  That warframe trailer (that is so commonly used on these forums to claim how the game is meant or aught to be played) ironically shows the enemy incapable of using cover and mindlessly trying to pile on the Tenno while the Tenno seem to be lathered in bullet repellant and don't know anything about cover either.  The only thing resembling a combo move there is Rhino Stomp followed by Slash Dash, something possible in Warframe since before the trailer.

 

You don't really understand the real point of that trailer do you? It was showing a clear emphasis on using the TEAM to take down a more powerful enemy with all the strengths the squad had to offer whilst surrounded by hordes of trash mobs. 

 

The reason I used it as an example versus later game trailers is because when that trailer was released the idea was still pure. This game had potential to not evolve into a game hinging on temporary shallow half baked content we keep getting. 

 

It encapsulated the spirit of the game. 

 

That trailer was based on a dream in progress. The current trailers made are made around the content we have now, which has varying mileage depending on patience and attrition. My own opinion here, I'm not saying this is the way it is. 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2015 by Hastur609

[climatiseur]

No, it complete counters the reason to use the invisibility powers in the first place.  There should never be a hard counter to specific 10-o powers.  It should always be indirect, such as nullifier bubbles or AoE attacks targeted at where they heard the invisible character firing from.

Maybe no target priority then, although I still think that would make them a greater threats and facilitates cooperation and tactical response. Anyway, just some ideas for brainstorming. 

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

Then speak more on that rather than getting needlessly hung up over a thread title. Tell me what you agree / disagree with and why, I'd be happy to reply and discuss it with you, perhaps get new ideas from our discussion. 

 

You're right, I do want a heavier emphasis on teamplay and mechanics that encourage it, it is subjective and it is my opinion. Yet here we have people getting offended as if I've hit their mother. Not you, but a couple. 

 

The positive support is nice, but I'd welcome any disagreements you'd have to offer as well, so long as it's outside of "I bet you're just mad" or "The OP -assumes- this about us!"  Couldn't be further from the truth, but I know some of the things I attack in this thread are a definite problem for many players, and while clearly not everyone's going to agree (Not everyone is going to nor do they need to) it's something I wanted to address with my own ideas.  I'm not going to shove them down anyone's throat.

Unfortunetaly, I kind of did. Again, aside from the objective stuff:

The big issue is that you're making progression mean less. In other words, you're introducing too much skill and teamwork. Let me explain.

1) Every progression based game, usually RPGs, has some form of artificial difficulty to counter the progression of the player. In Warframe, this is ripping control from players, 1SKilling them, etc because we have things like Mesa, Mag, Trinity, Frost, etc.

Now obviously, the solution is to lower progression's effect in the game (like what Dark Souls did/does), but:

2) Limiting progression's effect will make all that time played, the grinding, etc meaningless. If someone has spent hours farming for fleeting, they expect his/her Mesa/Gmag/etc to function well, to function AS INTENDED, be it CC; defense, or support. You're essentially asking thousands of players to give up hundreds or even thousands of hours of playtime. Can you really do that? We both know that those bosses/mini-bosses would get royally destroyed by a current CC frame. Rebalancing would happen, on a VERY large scale.

Those are my concerns.

[Eyeless]

Unfortunetaly, I kind of did. Again, aside from the objective stuff:

The big issue is that you're making progression mean less. In other words, you're introducing too much skill and teamwork. Let me explain.

1) Every progression based game, usually RPGs, has some form of artificial difficulty to counter the progression of the player. In Warframe, this is ripping control from players, 1SKilling them, etc because we have things like Mesa, Mag, Trinity, Frost, etc.

Now obviously, the solution is to lower progression's effect in the game (like what Dark Souls did/does), but:

2) Limiting progression's effect will make all that time played, the grinding, etc meaningless. If someone has spent hours farming for fleeting, they expect his/her Mesa/Gmag/etc to function well, to function AS INTENDED, be it CC; defense, or support. You're essentially asking thousands of players to give up hundreds or even thousands of hours of playtime. Can you really do that? We both know that those bosses/mini-bosses would get royally destroyed by a current CC frame. Rebalancing would happen, on a VERY large scale.

Those are my concerns.

 

 

I answer your question with one of my own:

 

Why is it progression keeping you playing when it should be engaging mechanics and deep gameplay?

 

Why do Quake Players and TF2 players keep playing the same game for so long? Granted this isn't a twitch / high skill ceiling FPS, but the point is there's plenty of games where the progression isn't what defines you, it's your experience. Experience through skill and the fun had on certain maps with certain friends, learning the game and enjoying having a solid grasp on its mechanics, mechanics that are interesting because of the depth , not because you hit level 30 on the 100th weapon that does just the same thing as some other. 

 

Gameplay should entice you because it's fun, that's the reward. Granted that doesn't do it for certain people. Some people only feel rewarded once they unlock the next tier of shiny, but you know what keeps most players playing? A solid combat system with an engaging world and system built around it, so it never feels like a chore, it feels challenging and even better once you get good at it. 

 

 

Every game will get boring eventually, but without deeper and skillful mechanics what is there to do between the droughts of updated content? What keeps fighting the samey pushover enemies interesting after a while once you've done it all and tested all your favorite frames? What makes the engagement satisfying long-term with nothing to truly test that gear against beyond cheaply scaled enemies and unavoidable damage?  

 

What I'm trying to say is that it should be the quality of the content presented that keeps you hooked, not the quantity or the unlocks. Unlocks ought to be a sweet bonus that only serves to enrich the experience further, and ya know what? I feel like we could have both if DE buckled down and kept making half baked systems that only served to lengthen grind and subdue progress for the sake of playtime extension.

 

TL;DR: Fun gameplay mechanics should be what draws you in and makes you want to sink countless hours into a game, not the promises of goodies that go stale a week from now. 

 

 

 

 I don't feel getting your playerbase to do T4 content because it's the only place to maybe get Blueprint X is a good approach, I feel players should want to take on higher level content because it tests their skill and gives them more to learn.

 

This is my own opinion as always, and the reason I play most of the games I do, but Warframe has become more of a game I just play and chat with friends for, for a bit.

We don't enjoy doing Vault runs, we don't enjoy leveling equipment (it's tedium) we play because the combat is mildly interesting and it all looks cool when ya do it.  

 

 

Before you misread me AGAIN ThePresident777 my complaint is not about lack of enemies, power spam, or that I need to level my gear. 

 

It's that there's nothing engaging to do before or after. The entire experience hinges on us grinding for things from the start. From a fresh perspective it's all par for the course, but what about after you've done your time grinding for your gear? What more is there to keep you engaged?  I see the underlying mechanics shallow and in need of some love, I want there to be things that enhance and give more depth to the gameplay to add to the joy of killing countless nameless enemies.

 

I am not trying to take that away, and you'd see that if you read my Original Post in it's entirety rather than coming here with the sole intent of arguing with me and putting words in my mouth to try and pants me in front of the forum viewers. It isn't working.

 

 

Some frosting on the dang cake so to say. 

Edited July 2, 2015 by Hastur609

[Bricks]

Well, I'm sold.

DE, please take notes. 

This is some damn good stuff...

[StonedMakak]

I answer your question with one of my own:

Why is it progression keeping you playing when it should be engaging mechanics and deep gameplay?

Why do Quake Players and TF2 players keep playing the same game for so long? Granted this isn't a twitch / high skill ceiling FPS, but the point is there's plenty of games where the progression isn't what defines you, it's your experience. Experience through skill and the fun had on certain maps with certain friends, learning the game and enjoying having a solid grasp on its mechanics, mechanics that are interesting because of the depth , not because you hit level 30 on the 100th weapon that does just the same thing as some other.

Gameplay should entice you because it's fun, that's the reward. Granted that doesn't do it for certain people. Some people only feel rewarded once they unlock the next tier of shiny, but you know what keeps most players playing? A solid combat system with an engaging world and system built around it, so it never feels like a chore, it feels challenging and even better once you get good at it.

Every game will get boring eventually, but without deeper and skillful mechanics what is there to do between the droughts of updated content? What keeps fighting the samey pushover enemies? What makes the engagement satisfying long-term with nothing to truly test that gear against beyond cheaply scaled enemies?

What I'm trying to say is that it should be the quality of the content presented that keeps you hooked, not the quantity or the unlocks. Unlocks ought to be a sweet bonus that only serves to enrich the experience further, and ya know what? I feel like we could have both if DE buckled down and kept making half baked systems that only served to lengthen grind and subdue progress for the sake of playtime extension.

TL;DR: Fun gameplay mechanics should be what draws you in and makes you want to sink countless hours into a game, not the promises of goodies that go stale a week from now.

I don't feel getting your playerbase to do T4 content because it's the only place to maybe get Blueprint X is a good approach, I feel players should want to take on higher level content because it tests their skill and gives them more to learn.

This is my own opinion as always, and the reason I play most of the games I do, but Warframe has become more of a game I just play and chat with friends for, for a bit.

We don't enjoy doing Vault runs, we don't enjoy leveling equipment (it's tedium) we play because the combat is mildly interesting and it all looks cool when ya do it.

Before you misread me AGAIN ThePresident777 my complaint is not about lack of enemies, power spam, or that I need to level my gear.

It's that there's nothing engaging to do before or after. The entire experience hinges on us grinding for things from the start. From a fresh perspective it's all par for the course, but what about after you've done your time grinding for your gear? What more is there to keep you engaged? I see the underlying mechanics shallow and in need of some love, I want there to be things that enhance and give more depth to the gameplay to add to the joy of killing countless nameless enemies.

I am not trying to take that away, and you'd see that if you read my Original Post in it's entirety rather than coming here with the sole intent of arguing with me and putting words in my mouth to try and pants me in front of the forum viewers. It isn't working.

Some frosting on the dang cake so to say.

Very well said.

But I'm afraid, and I hope I'm wrong, it will fall on deaf ears. What I've come to realize lately, is that quite significant (whether the majority or the minority doesn't matter) part of the playerbase is playing a completely different game than you or I. A gambling simulator where you go to T4 press a button and every 5 minutes you get a random reward. To those people anything you say about interesting gameplay mechanics is incomprehensible and irrelevant because it does not increase their percentage chance at getting what they want from a specific loot table.

And I don't blame DE entirely for the "half baked system that lengthen the grind" because you need that addictive element in a F2P. But they overdid it and got their players a bit more addicted than they wanted to, I think. I mean look at parkour 2.0 - potential chance for a good movement system that adds some true verticality to the combat along with new ways to explore the map and the biggest concern? It removes coptering, which results in missions being maybe a minute longer than they are now. That is, before players adjust, and learn to use the new system. What it can bring to the table is not important, the important part is that they will spend 10 more seconds getting to extraction, "hurting" their overall grind time. And so DE cannot just give gamblers a middle finger, they are paying customers after all, but at the same time, they want their life project to be more than gambling simulator. Quite a conundrum.

Edited July 2, 2015 by tisdfogg

[(PSN)Draconis1981]

readit no really read the whole thing and who would have thought? reward players for playing the way they want it played................ na

[FelisImpurrator]

2)  If one wanted to make a case for combos that work with 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army, it wasn't helped by complaining about 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army.

What part of "two frames drop in, one of them nukes everyone before the other half of the squad even sees a single spawn" is 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army? That sounds more like One Tenno Devastates Massive Army While Everyone Else Watches With Popcorn. And occasionally feeds the One Tenno some more glowing blue energy popcorn balls so that Tenno can keep launching more nukes than the backstory of Fallout had.

 

*quoted just to ping the OP*

Hey, I remember you. Hello again.

 

Man, you really need a legit outline for this stuff. Great ideas, but even with better spacing it's a monster to actually read - had to skim it, too sleepy. But I like the gist of what I'm seeing right now. So I'm just going to have to ask you to clarify some stuff.

 

You mentioned trying to cater to solo players as well? So - am I right when I say your proposed system works like this: "One Tenno using all of their weapons/abilities tactically to beat a tough enemy gives the same proportion of rewards as four Tenno working together to take down more of those enemies"? Because if I can choose to solo a squad of sub-bosses to avoid, say, dealing with lag, and yet level/gain items at a comparable pace to those who play in full squads constantly with fast internet, I am all for this as a "mainly solo with some squad play" player.

 

Also - would this mean totally reworking "cheese counter bandaid" enemies like Ancients and Nullifiers to not just be cheap meat walls, and maybe reworking 'trash mob' scaling so every bloody enemy on a T4 no longer facetanks harder than the toughest boss in the game past a certain arbitrary length of time? That is - the minibosses would scale, but the regular enemies wouldn't go too far out of their level range and become equally badass? (But of course, they shouldn't be totally effortless; they should always have an appropriate level of challenge for the content.) That's the sort of scaling I would like. We can't have these guys if the regular goons also continue scale infinitely and become unholy hordes of "oneshot them or they oneshot you" monsters like they do now.

 

This reminds me of some other games. Like Borderlands with its "Badass" units, that spawn with much higher stats but are relatively rare enemies for their level and don't generally swarm you 40 at a time. Or Diablo-style ARPGs like Marvel Heroes, where layering DOT/debuffs/CC/straight up DPS is generally the way to go for higher-level content, and there's more of an ability rotation beyond "4 4 4 4 4 energy pancake 4 4 4 4 4 4 4". And games like Zelda or Okami that have puzzle bosses/enemies where you have to figure out attack patterns dynamically. Take the Darknut in Twilight Princess - a giant, heavy-armored knight enemy that's basically a miniboss, where you have to use all your sword techniques dynamically to beat it - or a lot of the enemies in Skyward Sword that require specific slashing angles and timing, or a variety of your side tools, to defeat.

[ThePresident777]

I realized, as many of you readers have that 4 spam isn't the problem, it's what the game is designed around. 

 

It isn't about the gunplay and melee, or using powers to synergize with it. 

 

 

 

It's about this: Farming. 

 

Yeah we have fun guns and cool frame powers to use, but what's the point when doing all that within a reasonable session of playtime for a healthy human being isn't nearly as effective as doubling up on the latest wombo-combo strategy so you can kill the same uninteresting enemies with their cheap and samey cheese mechanics for better rewards? 

 

 

That is the way DE wants it played and they said it on February 8th 2013 on youtube, before the March 21 2013 Trailer on youtube:

Warframe: Developer Q&A , Answer to Question 4:

The core is the 4 guys against a massive army.  And, generally speaking, they are devastating. The core is not something like in Gears of War where the one on one is something a bit more balanced.  One Space Ninja against a whole ship of Grineer is the idea.  But, that needs to be balanced by boss battles, and by like desperate scenarios.  But, generally speaking, the whole idea of it, even an old ninja (right?) is that the untrained militia get devastated by a single one.

 

The Core of Warframe is supposed to be 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army.  Warframe is supposed to have Massive Armies and 4 Tenno are supposed to Devastate them, i.e. "doubling up on the latest wombo-combo strategy so you can kill", so that 4 Tenno can kill a lot of enemy, i.e. Devastate Massive Army.

 

It's a contradiction to say that Warframe is about "doubling up on the latest wombo-combo strategy so you can kill" then imply that DE has not made the game as they actually wanted it played because of "doubling up on the latest wombo-combo strategy so you can kill".  If Warframe does not play as DE actually wanted it played, it's because of other reasons, not because 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army.

 

I remember the old spawn code when enemy spawned so fast that even when everything in a 50 meter radius was nuked, there was danger coming right back in an instant.  The nerfed spawn code destroyed the enemy Massive Army.  What we have now are stragglers ala Dark Souls, not a Massive Army. 

 

If Tenno are sitting around waiting for something to do it's because there is no Massive Army anymore.  The spawner now slowly spits out stragglers, instead of a Massive Army.  The Tenno then proceed to Devastate the stragglers, as they are supposed to with "doubling up on the latest wombo-combo strategy so you can kill".   But, then they sit around waiting for the slow spawner to get back in the game.  DE broke the game by nerfing the spawner, not because of "doubling up on the latest wombo-combo strategy so you can kill".  That is what is supposed to be done ("doubling up on the latest wombo-combo strategy so you can kill") against Massive Army.  And that was supposed to be just The Core of Warframe ...

 

And, again, if the OP is about adding mini-bosses (elites, bad asses, big honchos cabrone, alpha meanies, call them whatever you like) to the Massive Army, it's obscured by claiming that Warframe is about "doubling up on the latest wombo-combo strategy so you can kill" then impling that DE has not made the game as they actually wanted it played because of "doubling up on the latest wombo-combo strategy so you can kill".

Edited July 2, 2015 by ThePresident777

[FelisImpurrator]

*snip*

Still less "4 Tenno Devastate Massive Army" and more "1 Tenno with a mobile energy pack devastates massive army while two other guys watch or scrape extra loot off the corpses".