Excalibur Rework : Press "e" To Win

[Pro3Display]

Actually, this is a good point.

or make them smaller and force excal to aim with them so he would be like everyone's dream mesa - needed to be aimed for skill play

 

jk

Edited July 2, 2015 by Pro3Display

[Faulcun]

Oh and just another thing I'd like to point out, concerning the parrying. It doesn't stop procs with E. Blade either. So you can easily die just from bleeding, don't go retard and think you're golden just by standing back to a wall with enemies facing you, check you status often, just in case, would be silly to go down because of that.^^'

Apparently it's perfectly logic to someone at DE that stopping a projectile from hitting you still will make you somehow bleed. DE's logic at work! Will never cease to surprise me... and not the good kind of surprise. Space magic!

 

Do people actually do this?

[TheBrsrkr]

Come on guys, we all love the new Excal, but 40m waves that punch through cover, doors and walls that are boosted by the combo counter that will most certainly go up on EVERY SLASH is a tad bit OP.

[Dragazer]

Come on guys, we all love the new Excal, but 40m waves that punch through cover, doors and walls that are boosted by the combo counter that will most certainly go up on EVERY SLASH is a tad bit OP.

Except I doubt you would be able to easily hit enemies moving at 40m with the slow projectile speed. Although waves are boosted by the combo counter, they do not contribute to it, so you are still required to get up close to deal the most damage. Not only that but wave damage is more slanted towards slash so enemy armour becomes a big issue at higher levels, making finishers much more viable to deal dmg instead at that point.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Dragazer

[RahuHordika]

- Excal should be forced to leave his ability to deal with Nullifiers -- requiring more diverse play.

Allowing Excal to deal with nullifiers using EB is diverse play, it is actually possible for him to go melee only and deal with the little bags of cheap without having to unnecesarily risk his &#! to the one-shotting CCing buddies those have inisde the bubble.

And it's not like the wave punches through the bubble, you actually need to wear it down, all projective abilities can wear down nullifier bubbles.

[--Q--XFA]

I have to agree and disagree.. (too lazy to explain xD)...

 

but i am most likely against to nerfing him because people will then again whine and ask for a rework... 

 

EDIT: Also he's now perfect warframe beginners because they can catch up and not hold back the team when playing with pros in mission runs.

Edited July 2, 2015 by BIENZ

[TheBrsrkr]

@Dragazer:

But you're not always aiming at things 40m away, right? Enemies are usually 30m away at most when people engage them. Everything within the range just got cut through, cover or not. It is slash based, but the sheer power of the waves paired with the amount of waves you can throw in a short amount of time makes that somewhat redundant. Its not ZOMG TOO OP PLS NERF NAOW, but it does need to be toned down, and it's best done now rather than 6 months later where people will gripe even harder.

[FitzSimmons]

Don't nerf excal, he's awesome now.

true, he is main character should be cool and great

[Jinryusai]

@Dragazer:

But you're not always aiming at things 40m away, right? Enemies are usually 30m away at most when people engage them. Everything within the range just got cut through, cover or not. It is slash based, but the sheer power of the waves paired with the amount of waves you can throw in a short amount of time makes that somewhat redundant. Its not ZOMG TOO OP PLS NERF NAOW, but it does need to be toned down, and it's best done now rather than 6 months later where people will gripe even harder.

How is this different from beam weapons especally with punchthrough and especially a flamethrower especially with Mirage.

 

With Mirage and the right weapon especially with punchthrough I can decimate far more enemies then exalted Blade. EB pales in comparison to Hall of Mirrors.

 

Exalted Blade pales in comparison to Miasma, 4 powers that kill. It's only a ranged melee weapon with punchthrough mods that shoots energy waves. no big deal.

 

Look at it as a rifle which actually kills faster.

[Jinryusai]

Come on guys, we all love the new Excal, but 40m waves that punch through cover, doors and walls that are boosted by the combo counter that will most certainly go up on EVERY SLASH is a tad bit OP.

Waves that kill slower than a rifle especially with Mirage...Not really.

[Jinryusai]

- Syndicate PROCS should not happen.

Compared to a rifle especially with Miarge holding it, it need syndicate procs to keep up with conventional weapons and powers...

[Trickst3rGawd]

Lock pls

[Pro3Display]

Lock pls

this

[S7ORM]

Compared to a rifle especially with Miarge holding it, it need syndicate procs to keep up with conventional weapons and powers...

It really doesn't.

You block all bullets from the front and do massive amounts of damage in a long line forwards. You don't need radial damage as well.

[FitzSimmons]

I have to agree and disagree.. (too lazy to explain xD)...

 

but i am most likely against to nerfing him because people will then again whine and ask for a rework... 

 

EDIT: Also he's now perfect warframe beginners because they can catch up and not hold back the team when playing with pros in mission runs.

truee

[Kruglov]

Lock pls

 

It'd be nice if threads had a rating system.

Good threads with good balance or content suggestions can get 5 stars.

Threads that are basically "this warframe did more damage than my lato on jupiter, pls nerf" threads can get 0's and go to the bin they belong in.

[ShawnV2]

Lock pls

 

^This

[tzaeru]

I think the people who claim that Exca isn't OP are the people to whom Warframe consists solely of doing past 40 minutes in T4 Survival. For every other mission type, Excalibur is ridiculously overpowered and requires no rare mods or special player skills to be used to an extremely effective degree. I know this, because I suck, have almost no Vault or Nightmare mods and have still been using Exca to farm myself Keys and Cells and so on in and around Ceres with very low risk and very high damage dealt -percentages. Only times I've died have been to a rolling bomb hopping over me or managing to turn my back in the wrong time to a Bombarder.

 

The notation that it wasn't overpowered to run level 40 missions with close-to invulnerability and continously spam high-damage energy waves everywhere that go through enemies, doors, walls and so on is just absurd. The argument that "Sure it's powerful but the damage falls off after an hour in Tower survivals!" is just wholly pointless since majority of players, majority of time, don't sit in T4 survival for hours at an end. Comparing to the best of primary weapon set-ups is also pointless since they are anyway extrafluous until those late Survivals, but still, what EB does and they don't is go through walls (in most missions, you can anticipate where the largest enemy pack is and kill them all before they even open the door to you), go through as many enemies as there is in line, require no reloads and let you sit in cover while 'E'ing through a wall/obstacle.

 

My suggestion is to remove the no clip and have the player not be able to pick up energy orbs while the ability is on. That would remove the ability to fire at an incoming defense/mobile defense/etc horde through walls, sitting safely behind an obstacle while firing the waves and having the ability on for the duration of the whole mission.. .. Actually, I fully agree with all problem points presented in the opening post. These wouldn't even represent a major nerf.

Edited July 2, 2015 by tzaeru

[cx-dave]

Then don't use him on low level missions or use his ultimate sparingly. He's a top tier frame now, suitable for combating high level enemies. People also don't use a machete to cut their steak at the dinner table. It's OP for that purpose. Does this mean we should outlaw it then?

 

Experience players need their tools as well. If you don't like that, perhaps we should put an MR18+ lock on all high damage frames and call it a day.

 

It's not as if we don't have other options. Alternatively, we can use CC methods and make all low level games miserable for players who don't have the gears for it as well.  

 

Also, with Excalibur my main source for energy isn't orbs. He gets it from the way I set him up. Will you nerf that too?

 

All these people who can't control their own game-play or want to control how others play, constantly come up with new ideas and complain here...every time DE gives in it just goes from bad to worse. 

 

I think the people who claim that Exca isn't OP are the people to whom Warframe consists solely of doing past 40 minutes in T4 Survival. For every other mission type, Excalibur is ridiculously overpowered and requires no rare mods or special player skills to be used to an extremely effective degree. I know this, because I suck, have almost no Vault or Nightmare mods and have still been using Exca to farm myself Keys and Cells and so on in and around Ceres with very low risk and very high damage dealt -percentages. Only times I've died have been to a rolling bomb hopping over me or managing to turn my back in the wrong time to a Bombarder.

 

The notation that it wasn't overpowered to run level 40 missions with close-to invulnerability and continously spam high-damage energy waves everywhere that go through enemies, doors, walls and so on is just absurd. The argument that "Sure it's powerful but the damage falls off after an hour in Tower survivals!" is just wholly pointless since majority of players, majority of time, don't sit in T4 survival for hours at an end.

 

My suggestion is to remove the no clip and have the player not be able to pick up energy orbs while the ability is on.

[StonedMakak]

I think the people who claim that Exca isn't OP are the people to whom Warframe consists solely of doing past 40 minutes in T4 Survival. For every other mission type, Excalibur is ridiculously overpowered and requires no rare mods or special player skills to be used to an extremely effective degree. I know this, because I suck, have almost no Vault or Nightmare mods and have still been using Exca to farm myself Keys and Cells and so on in and around Ceres with very low risk and very high damage dealt -percentages. Only times I've died have been to a rolling bomb hopping over me or managing to turn my back in the wrong time to a Bombarder.

 

The notation that it wasn't overpowered to run level 40 missions with close-to invulnerability and continously spam high-damage energy waves everywhere that go through enemies, doors, walls and so on is just absurd. The argument that "Sure it's powerful but the damage falls off after an hour in Tower survivals!" is just wholly pointless since majority of players, majority of time, don't sit in T4 survival for hours at an end. Comparing to the best of primary weapon set-ups is also pointless since they are anyway extrafluous until those late Survivals, but still, what EB does and they don't is go through walls (in most missions, you can anticipate where the largest enemy pack is and kill them all before they even open the door to you), go through as many enemies as there is in line, require no reloads and let you sit in cover while 'E'ing through a wall/obstacle.

 

My suggestion is to remove the no clip and have the player not be able to pick up energy orbs while the ability is on. That would remove the ability to fire at an incoming defense/mobile defense/etc horde through walls, sitting safely behind an obstacle while firing the waves and having the ability on for the duration of the whole mission.

 

EB without total punch through would really heavily on SD and RB, to gain optimal positioning and CC so you don't get shredded, as you can no longer hide behind a wall and kill enemies from range. While I can sympathize with the removal/tweaking of how punch through works, disabling orb pickups in conjunction with that, would force people to run max efficiency or not use EB at all. And I see nothing wrong in staying in the Ult for long periods of time, even more so if punch through was to be removed.  

Edited July 2, 2015 by tisdfogg

[-Kryptyk-]

Lock pls

thank you >.>

[Brynslustafir]

"Uh-oh, excal is actually fun now. DE pls ruin him."

 

That's what I got out of it. 

[tzaeru]

Then don't use him on low level missions or use his ultimate sparingly. He's a top tier frame now, suitable for combating high level enemies. People also don't use a machete to cut their steak at the dinner table. It's OP for that purpose. Does this mean we should outlaw it then?

 

Well, firstly, machete would be terribly inefficient as the tool of choice for cutting a dinner steak and continuing to eating the piece. So it's not "overpowered" for that purpose. Secondly, most dinner groups would frown at you bringing a machete to the table and trying to eat with it, even if it wasn't exactly illegal to do so.

 

Thirdly, Warframe's a team-game last I checked. Even if I choose to not run Excalibur, others would run him and change how I enjoy the game. Obviously this goes both ways; i.e. my desires shouldn't override the options of others, but only to a degree. There's a line there, and it is drawn on water, but current EB is on the opposite shore..

 

 

Experience players need their tools as well. If you don't like that, perhaps we should put an MR18+ lock on all high damage frames and call it a day.

 

Experienced players need to be able to walk through high level missions with absolutely no risk and very high damage dealt -ratios, that force the rest of the team to just walk after them, gathering loot?

 

Okay-dokay.

 

EB without total punch through would really heavily on SD and RB, to gain optimal positioning and CC so you don't get shredded, as you can no longer hide behind a wall and kill enemies from range. While I can sympathize with the removal/tweaking of how punch through works, disabling orb pickups in conjunction with that, would force people to run max efficiency or not use EB at all. And I see nothing wrong in staying in the Ult for long periods of time, even more so if punch through was to be removed.  

You wouldn't be shredded before very, very high level enemies from infinite missions even without shooting the waves through cover.

I don't exactly see why you wouldn't use EB even without being able to pick up orbs. It would just mean that you need to dispatch a big group of enemies in one-go, then drop off EB, pick up the energy orbs, and put EB back up for the next group. You aren't exactly losing energy this way, you're just being forced to drop the invulnerability for a while, meaning that you need to rely a bit more on team mates and positioning yourself well. Even without maximized efficiency, you can expect EB to last roughly a minute with full energy.

 

"Uh-oh, excal is actually fun now. DE pls ruin him."

 

That's what I got out of it. 

So you didn't read much into it then? Because it's more like.. "Excal makes the game less fun. DE plz fix him.", which is pretty much the opposite from your version. ^^

[Dragazer]

Well, firstly, machete would be terribly inefficient as the tool of choice for cutting a dinner steak and continuing to eating the piece. So it's not "overpowered" for that purpose. Secondly, most dinner groups would frown at you bringing a machete to the table and trying to eat with it, even if it wasn't exactly illegal to do so.

 

Thirdly, Warframe's a team-game last I checked. Even if I choose to not run Excalibur, others would run him and change how I enjoy the game. Obviously this goes both ways; i.e. my desires shouldn't override the options of others, but only to a degree. There's a line there, and it is drawn on water, but current EB is on the opposite shore..

 

 

 

Experienced players need to be able to walk through high level missions with absolutely no risk and very high damage dealt -ratios, that force the rest of the team to just walk after them, gathering loot?

 

Okay-dokay.

 

You wouldn't be shredded before very, very high level enemies from infinite missions even without shooting the waves through cover.

I don't exactly see why you wouldn't use EB even without being able to pick up orbs. It would just mean that you need to dispatch a big group of enemies in one-go, then drop off EB, pick up the energy orbs, and put EB back up for the next group. You aren't exactly losing energy this way, you're just being forced to drop the invulnerability for a while, meaning that you need to rely a bit more on team mates and positioning yourself well. Even without maximized efficiency, you can expect EB to last roughly a minute with full energy.

 

So you didn't read much into it then? Because it's more like.. "Excal makes the game less fun. DE plz fix him.", which is pretty much the opposite from your version. ^^

EB in no way makes you immortal, like you stated before you died from the bombards and rollers. Excalibur's main weakness is cc and AOE such as the bombards, rollers you mention, napalms, Eximuses, ancients with their hooks and knockdown attacks, Grineer heavies in general with their knockdown blast. All of those I mentioned go through the parry. So don't be making lies up saying that there's absolutely no risk to it. Exalted blade is very easy to out-damage as well. Hitscan bullets and majority of the projectile weapons will out-speed and out-damage EB waves  

Edited July 2, 2015 by Dragazer

[tzaeru]

So don't be making lies up saying that there's absolutely no risk to it.

 

Yea, that was a hyperbole, for which I can apologize and I've thus far preferred to use "low risk", which is indeed more accurate.

 

Any "high risk" wouldn't happen until infinite missions or raids though.

 

Hitscan bullets and majority of the projectile weapons will out-speed and out-damage EB waves  

To consistently out-damage and out-speed EB, hitscan and projectile weapons need proper set-ups and passable aiming skills though. In my experience thus far from a few dozen games, EB (not always mine, often a teammate's as Excas are pretty common a sight at the moment) has only come second in total damage dealt in Ceres missions when a Saryn was Miasma'ing every room. Every single other time, Exca has had the top damage. So obviously things are different in practice from theory.