Exalted Blade Makes Excalibur A Living Fluctus And Deafeats The Ability Purpose

[Drufo]

Come on guys, I never asked DE to nerf him because he's OP, I just observed that his 4th ability is not so melee-focused and asked for opinions.

I'm happy when someone said theirs, but to everyone telling "you want to nerf him! But I want to kill lv 100 enemies!!!" : you look very childish

[Slaviar]

Come on guys, I never asked DE to nerf him because he's OP, I just observed that his 4th ability is not so melee-focused and asked for opinions.

I'm happy when someone said theirs, but to everyone telling "you want to nerf him! But I want to kill lv 100 enemies!!!" : you look very childish

Because what you propose is straight nerf. If Excalibur runs in group of not even lvl 100 but 60 enemies he's down. I say it from my own experience.

[BrazilianJoe]

I whole heardetly disagree with tying waves to combos. 

 

Combos are a failed mechanic because they are too inaccessible all that E,E,E,E timed drumming never works really well because enemies usually die soooner. Because your melee is too good, or your kubrow/sentinel/teammates just finish them off. 

 

There should be a more acessible way to branch in combos. to make they worth learning at all, and consciously going for them. But that will only come on Combos/Stances 2.0.

 

As for Exalted Blade, I would either:

 

1) give waves faloff to 50% damage after the 10th meter; OR

2) divide damage by 2 after each enemy is hit; OR

3) Change it to a charged mechanic (like Glaive) and increase damage to compensate.

 

The first two options wouldn't help against spamming and we would still see barrages of waves.

 

The third would reduce the amount of waves flying, but if the damage increase is not significant, there will be a huge outcry.

[TheBrsrkr]

If they were not, then why are Loki, Frost, Nova, Nyx, or any other cc frame highly regarded to be some of the best frames in the game. The answer is because they can go beyond level 100+ enemies. Even raids have level 80+ enemies. The game might not be balanced around it but the community is. Most people use level 60 and beyond and the point of end game and some even use level 80 and beyond. That is the benchmark and you might not use level 100 as a balance point but other people do.

Also this is a great way to do it because the waves don't do enough damage by themselves but they have assisting elements e.g. radial blind, combo meter, double damage with the blade.

Excalibur can copter faster than his waves. Enemies can easily dodge his waves. Yeah they are pretty slow and the waves are exactly big enough to cover a large area especially at longer ranges. So you can spam your waves like crazy only for the enemies to move then you have to spam more waves in the new direction.

CC frames are better because power strength does not scale. However, the solution to this is not adding MORE power strength. Not only did you not solve the problem (damage falling off), you balance that move for that level, and ONLY that level. If it gets balanced for lvl 100 enemies, what happens to level 1-70? They get completely and utterly steamrolled, and you get the rewards from up to that point without making any effort or being challenged whatsoever. A balancing mark cannot be subjective, because nothing else in the game is. Rewards, enemies and keys also have to be balanced around it.

The waves being slow are a moot point because of just how many waves you can send downrange. 50k damage is not a small amount. A 40m wave, especially with infinite punch through, is absolutely ridiculous. A melee-centric frame has no business having that much range with massive power for <5 energy a second. It takes away from the theme AND is ridiculously overpowered.

[Buzkyl]

 

Good luck killing anything >100 lvl when you need to get close and personal. Beside, remove energy waves and all you have will be Valkyr without invicibility.

 

 

Why are you balancing things even above level 100 in the first place? When you're ignoring the majority of the game which is faar below that point.

[(PSN)abb12355]

Your lucky you even have the rework for Excalibur

[RealPandemonium]

I really wonder why people demand nerfs to things that make their lives easier

If the game is too easy then it just becomes pointless power fantasy masturbation.  I would prefer this game to be fun and engaging.

[Slaviar]

Why are you balancing things even above level 100 in the first place? When you're ignoring the majority of the game which is faar below that point.

100 is an example. These mobs can be lvl 60 as well- if you run in the group of them you're down.

Excalibur player who simply spams E without paying attention to his surroundings will be down quickly. Excalibur is finally in right place, he's both strong pleasant to play and require skill to use properly. And while energy waves may not suit swordsman theme too well if they are removed or limited Exaclibur will transform into inferior Valkyr. Plain and simple. He'll be again in back row, never to be used again. EB isn't his sole ability but is only one which make him stand out from the crowd.

 

I am tired of all this "Excal op plox nerf". I'd really like to learn what is so op about him. Waves? You have to aim and they go only at that direction. And they have travel time which makes them weak at long range. Low energy cost? So what? There is no greedy Mag anymore and he's not affected by restores when EB's active. Not to mention it's extremely easy to run out of energy. He's not invulnerable when EB's active- block doesn't count, every frame will be able to do it with parkour 2.0, beside block doesn't work when he's attacking or is hit from behind. Damage? Weapons are able to reach comparable or higher. Punchthrough? Let us discuss Miasma. Range? Back to travel time. Shrinks nullifier's bubble? Guess what? Weapons can do this better.

[S7ORM]

If they were not, then why are Loki, Frost, Nova, Nyx, or any other cc frame highly regarded to be some of the best frames in the game. The answer is because they can go beyond level 100+ enemies. Even raids have level 80+ enemies. The game might not be balanced around it but the community is. Most people use level 60 and beyond and the point of end game and some even use level 80 and beyond. That is the benchmark and you might not use level 100 as a balance point but other people do.

Also this is a great way to do it because the waves don't do enough damage by themselves but they have assisting elements e.g. radial blind, combo meter, double damage with the blade.

Excalibur can copter faster than his waves. Enemies can easily dodge his waves. Yeah they are pretty slow and the waves are exactly big enough to cover a large area especially at longer ranges. So you can spam your waves like crazy only for the enemies to move then you have to spam more waves in the new direction.

CC frames are regarded as the best frames because they benefit the team without respect for enemy level. THe fact that they're just as useful above the damage dropoff threshold of pure-damage abilities is entirely coincidental to that fact. They ARE balanced for the lower level content. It just so happens that they don't rely on enemies for their effectiveness.

I'm all for abilties that increase damage on enemies or from allies being strong, because they require teamwork or synergy to use and that's something I'd like to see promoted more often. However, I'd like to see the game without those abilities balanced to a reasonable (starchart) level.

Enemies literally cannot dodge the waves because their AI doesn't react to the waves except by dying.

The below quotes exemplify what I'm saying.

 

CC frames are better because power strength does not scale. However, the solution to this is not adding MORE power strength. Not only did you not solve the problem (damage falling off), you balance that move for that level, and ONLY that level. If it gets balanced for lvl 100 enemies, what happens to level 1-70? They get completely and utterly steamrolled, and you get the rewards from up to that point without making any effort or being challenged whatsoever. A balancing mark cannot be subjective, because nothing else in the game is. Rewards, enemies and keys also have to be balanced around it.

If the game is too easy then it just becomes pointless power fantasy masturbation.  I would prefer this game to be fun and engaging.

RealPandemonium's comment is quite enjoyable to read.

Edited July 13, 2015 by S7ORM

[LordOfScrugging]

my take on multiple points is this:

 

working waves into combos: this will discourage people from doing two things. 1) going into EB (well for longer games since getting up close can often lead to death). 2) crit builds. sure EB might not be as fast as a tipedo or dual ichors. but it can get to the point where you cannot pull off any combos and just end up mashing e.

 

making it so that it can only shoot waves while channeling: this will kill some of the fun since every hit will drain energy. see a small cluster of about 8 enemies? there goes a giant chunk of your energy in no time flat.

 

shortening the range: although it's slightly better than outright removing waves, your reaction time does get a bit slower when you're up close. 3 bombards shooting at you and you are in the face of one killing it. since you are close, you cannot see you have missiles locked on. (would be nice if DE implements a sort of lock on detection so you aren't being stealth bombed by a bombard across the map) 

 

i think it's really fun to just hack away at enemies from afar. i find it fun because we are supposed to be these insane mercs with outstanding powers that can take on armies single-handedly. not sure why some players want to gimp themselves of the powers. sure you could argue "powercreep" but lore wise, we are freaking powerful as hell. if you wanted to play something less outlandish, why not play a different game? just my 2 cents.

[GuyOnCrack]

CC frames are better because power strength does not scale. However, the solution to this is not adding MORE power strength. Not only did you not solve the problem (damage falling off), you balance that move for that level, and ONLY that level. If it gets balanced for lvl 100 enemies, what happens to level 1-70? They get completely and utterly steamrolled, and you get the rewards from up to that point without making any effort or being challenged whatsoever. A balancing mark cannot be subjective, because nothing else in the game is. Rewards, enemies and keys also have to be balanced around it.

The waves being slow are a moot point because of just how many waves you can send downrange. 50k damage is not a small amount. A 40m wave, especially with infinite punch through, is absolutely ridiculous. A melee-centric frame has no business having that much range with massive power for <5 energy a second. It takes away from the theme AND is ridiculously overpowered.

That assuming people have all the mods to make Excalibur able to go to 100+ enemies. Most weapons are able to able to steamroll level 1 to 80 and carry to 100. Why not nerf them? I mean having an alternative to the best weapons in the game, unacceptable. Even though you are required to get up close to actually do damage later.

Have you not heard me say that the waves do barely any damage in late game? Where are you getting 50K from? I barely hit 15k with crits on level 15 enemies. The waves can and have been dodged. One of the same problems that the supra has, which is travel time. But on Exalted Blade, it's a balancing feature.

[TheBrsrkr]

I am tired of all this "Excal op plox nerf". I'd really like to learn what is so op about him. Waves? You have to aim and they go only at that direction. And they have travel time which makes them weak at long range. Low energy cost? So what? There is no greedy Mag anymore and he's not affected by restores when EB's active. Not to mention it's extremely easy to run out of energy. He's not invulnerable when EB's active- block doesn't count, every frame will be able to do it with parkour 2.0, beside block doesn't work when he's attacking or is hit from behind. Damage? Weapons are able to reach comparable or higher. Punchthrough? Let us discuss Miasma. Range? Back to travel time. Shrinks nullifier's bubble? Guess what? Weapons can do this better.

In order:

"Pointing" and "aiming" are not the same thing. You aim a bow or gun at specific parts of the enemy. It's kind of hard yo explain. Pointing in athe general direction of an enemy and spamming E isn't exactly what you would call aiming. The travel time is meaningless for 2 reasons; it's not really that slow, and the sheer number of waves you can simply throw downrange render this a moot point. Infinite punch through doesn't help either.

Streamline alone takes the energy cost down to about 3 per second, which means 1 orb can keep it going for about 9 seconds. That plus Energy Siphon makes it basically infinite, and it is simply too powerful for that level of efficiency. Walking around will get you the same amount of orbs as a Gmag, and you can basically keep that thing up forever. If an ability is designed to be always in, it should not be as powerful as or more powerful than a toggle ability.

"He's not invincible" is no kind of argument at all. What does that mean? I can die, so it's balanced? If so, AkSoma Prime with homing instakill bullets should be released because I CAN STILL DIE.

Yes, guns can reach the same effectiveness than EB. However, guns have limiting factors (however small) than can (but not always) justify this damage. EB has no such restrictions. Infinite punch through doesn't help either.

Speaking of infinite punch through, what about Miasma? What does Miasma have to do with Exalted Blade? Even if there was something, are you suggesting that we should leave a broken ability alone because it's not as broken as another? Because that's just dumb.

It doesn't matter again, because of the aforementioned statements, and the fact that most combat takes place from the 20-40m range.

Shrinking the nullifier bubble I would have no problem with if it wasn't so ridiculous everywhere else.

[GuyOnCrack]

CC frames are regarded as the best frames because they benefit the team without respect for enemy level. THe fact that they're just as useful above the damage dropoff threshold of pure-damage abilities is entirely coincidental to that fact. They ARE balanced for the lower level content. It just so happens that they don't rely on enemies for their effectiveness.

I'm all for abilties that increase damage on enemies or from allies being strong, because they require teamwork or synergy to use and that's something I'd like to see promoted more often. However, I'd like to see the game without those abilities balanced to a reasonable (starchart) level.

Enemies literally cannot dodge the waves because their AI doesn't react to the waves except by dying.

The below quotes exemplify what I'm saying.

 

RealPandemonium's comment is quite enjoyable to read.

CC frames are grossly underpowered when it comes to lower level and overpowered when it comes to late game. No one complains because they don't do damage so the team has reasonable time to kill the enemies even though the skill is being spammed. But not everyone plays with a team. I personally play solo and most of the community does too. And Excalibur works on a team, AS THE DPS. If you want to talk about team synergy, maybe there is a need for a DPS character?

Also have you actually played Excalibur extensively? Have you? No lying now. Because I know if you have played Excalibur a lot, you would have a lot of moments where you would aim a wave only for the enemy to move to another position. And with the travel time on the waves, you would have to adjust to the new position a few seconds after the first wave past the enemy.

[Complicasiian]

Number 3 makes perfect sense. 

[TheBrsrkr]

That assuming people have all the mods to make Excalibur able to go to 100+ enemies. Most weapons are able to able to steamroll level 1 to 80 and carry to 100. Why not nerf them? I mean having an alternative to the best weapons in the game, unacceptable. Even though you are required to get up close to actually do damage later.

Have you not heard me say that the waves do barely any damage in late game? Where are you getting 50K from? I barely hit 15k with crits on level 15 enemies. The waves can and have been dodged. One of the same problems that the supra has, which is travel time. But on Exalted Blade, it's a balancing feature.

The Supra is known as one of the worst guns in Warframe partly because if the travel time. Is that the only reason though? Maybe it has to do with the 4 second reload time, lack of damage and crit, with a piss poor damage ratio and high fire rate. #BuffTheSupra2015

Back on topic, I'm not saying you CAN'T take weapons and Warframes past 60 or so, I'm saying that you can't balance the game around a point where 2 rotations are already gone. That's 8 rewards for doing nothing. The entire scale of enemies and Warframe and rewards will have to be changed to suit. Why are you talking about mods anyway? Everyone knows that you need good mods to have OP Exalted blade. That still dorsnt make it balanced. The problem isn't about new or old players, is it? It's about the ability. Yes the waves can be dodged, but that just means you either have to get closer or actually aim the thing sometimes. And again, throwing 4 waves or so downrange solves this problem too.

I get 50k, you get 15k, the enemy gets how Mich health?

[GuyOnCrack]

In order:

"Pointing" and "aiming" are not the same thing. You aim a bow or gun at specific parts of the enemy. It's kind of hard yo explain. Pointing in athe general direction of an enemy and spamming E isn't exactly what you would call aiming. The travel time is meaningless for 2 reasons; it's not really that slow, and the sheer number of waves you can simply throw downrange render this a moot point. Infinite punch through doesn't help either.

Streamline alone takes the energy cost down to about 3 per second, which means 1 orb can keep it going for about 9 seconds. That plus Energy Siphon makes it basically infinite, and it is simply too powerful for that level of efficiency. Walking around will get you the same amount of orbs as a Gmag, and you can basically keep that thing up forever. If an ability is designed to be always in, it should not be as powerful as or more powerful than a toggle ability.

"He's not invincible" is no kind of argument at all. What does that mean? I can die, so it's balanced? If so, AkSoma Prime with homing instakill bullets should be released because I CAN STILL DIE.

Yes, guns can reach the same effectiveness than EB. However, guns have limiting factors (however small) than can (but not always) justify this damage. EB has no such restrictions. Infinite punch through doesn't help either.

Speaking of infinite punch through, what about Miasma? What does Miasma have to do with Exalted Blade? Even if there was something, are you suggesting that we should leave a broken ability alone because it's not as broken as another? Because that's just dumb.

It doesn't matter again, because of the aforementioned statements, and the fact that most combat takes place from the 20-40m range.

Shrinking the nullifier bubble I would have no problem with if it wasn't so ridiculous everywhere else.

So are shotguns are aiming or pointing? So I aim behind me and hit the enemy in front of me, right? I mean those waves can just cover so much area, right? And the waves coming out aren't affected by attack speed so the amount is finite relative to my attack speed.

 

Also I can tell you haven't played Excalibur because Energy Siphon isn't active when you have Exalted Blade up. Or the fact that you need to use your other skills to actively keep up your damage, which I keep saying isn't effective with only the waves.

[GuyOnCrack]

The Supra is known as one of the worst guns in Warframe partly because if the travel time. Is that the only reason though? Maybe it has to do with the 4 second reload time, lack of damage and crit, with a piss poor damage ratio and high fire rate. #BuffTheSupra2015

Back on topic, I'm not saying you CAN'T take weapons and Warframes past 60 or so, I'm saying that you can't balance the game around a point where 2 rotations are already gone. That's 8 rewards for doing nothing. The entire scale of enemies and Warframe and rewards will have to be changed to suit. Why are you talking about mods anyway? Everyone knows that you need good mods to have OP Exalted blade. That still dorsnt make it balanced. The problem isn't about new or old players, is it? It's about the ability. Yes the waves can be dodged, but that just means you either have to get closer or actually aim the thing sometimes. And again, throwing 4 waves or so downrange solves this problem too.

I get 50k, you get 15k, the enemy gets how Mich health?

There are other factors but say hypothetically, we gave the Soma the same travel time, would it still be great?

 

So nerf all the weapons. Why should the Soma be able to go past 60? That's 8 rewards for doing nothing. I mean my Soma Prime can shred the ever living S#&$ out of sub 60 enemies, that means it's overpowered as S#&$.

Also what my point is that, most people won't have mods to take Excalibur over level 60, LIKE WEAPONS. Weapons literally S#&$ on sub 60 enemies with good mods, exactly the same with Excalibur.

Try taking an unmodded Excalibur into a level 60+ situation. He won't last long. People with the right mods can S#&$ on the sub 60 enemies because got the mods and level them up, just like with weapons. And of course they aren't doing nothing, those waves need to be aimed, they don't have an auto target that automatically kills enemies.

Of course, you say something like, "The sheer amount of waves make it pointless to even try to play, just like doing nothing," even though the width of the wave doesn't increase or the amount of waves will never exceed a certain amount due to attack speed and if you want to actually spam you have to sacrifice more mod space instead of getting damage or utility. But hey, I don't want to strawman you, so just say what you want.

Also 15k on low levels, barely 100 on higher levels, how much armor does the enemy have?

Edited July 14, 2015 by GuyOnCrack

[Slaviar]

In order:

"Pointing" and "aiming" are not the same thing. You aim a bow or gun at specific parts of the enemy. It's kind of hard yo explain. Pointing in athe general direction of an enemy and spamming E isn't exactly what you would call aiming. The travel time is meaningless for 2 reasons; it's not really that slow, and the sheer number of waves you can simply throw downrange render this a moot point. Infinite punch through doesn't help either.

Streamline alone takes the energy cost down to about 3 per second, which means 1 orb can keep it going for about 9 seconds. That plus Energy Siphon makes it basically infinite, and it is simply too powerful for that level of efficiency. Walking around will get you the same amount of orbs as a Gmag, and you can basically keep that thing up forever. If an ability is designed to be always in, it should not be as powerful as or more powerful than a toggle ability.

"He's not invincible" is no kind of argument at all. What does that mean? I can die, so it's balanced? If so, AkSoma Prime with homing instakill bullets should be released because I CAN STILL DIE.

Yes, guns can reach the same effectiveness than EB. However, guns have limiting factors (however small) than can (but not always) justify this damage. EB has no such restrictions. Infinite punch through doesn't help either.

Speaking of infinite punch through, what about Miasma? What does Miasma have to do with Exalted Blade? Even if there was something, are you suggesting that we should leave a broken ability alone because it's not as broken as another? Because that's just dumb.

It doesn't matter again, because of the aforementioned statements, and the fact that most combat takes place from the 20-40m range.

Shrinking the nullifier bubble I would have no problem with if it wasn't so ridiculous everywhere else.

1) Travel time is meaningful because unless you're 10-15 m away from enemies who aren't running at you in straight line they won't be there when wave passes.

 

2)You could at least bother to learn Excalibur isn't affected by Energy Siphon when EB's active. For energy orbs you need them there and if enemies drop them or not is RNG. Beside, every energy leech eximus drains you faster and channeling can rip your energy away in no time. Please, don't tell "channeling useless". It is useful, Life Strike for example.

 

3)"He's not invincible" is important. You have to be aware of your surrounding instead of spinning like crazy and spamming E. If you do it chances are you'll be down quickly when this Bombard you didn't noticed fires at you. EB isn't Peacemaker, it's not aimbot with fixed range. Not to mention Excalibur constatnly moves forward when attacking so it's easy to leave your safe place.

 

4)Miasma is radial ability which hits EVERYTHING within its range which isn't protected by Nullifier. EB's punchtrough is nothing compared to it.

[Naftal]

1)only some moves from some combos create energy waves.

This way you can't spam waves and you have to do specific moves to use them, thus promoting the use of different combos.

I want this so much. Every damn attack creating a wave defeats the purpose of a melee frame. It also removes any skill needed to use the ability.

 

Different combos could create different waves. Some could do multiple smaller waves, some could do one wide high damage wave etc.

[TheBrsrkr]

The Soma, being a crit based damage weapon, has several limiting factors. Low ammo efficiency (not as low as it should be), it's damage depends on RNG, medium recoil and a 3 second reload time. All of these featured can be mitigated, but not bypassed by skilled play.For all its dakka, the Soma has to be aimed at weak points to truly maximize damage. Limited punch through also applies here. Exalted blade has none of these limitations. If the Soma had travel time, it would still be a good weapon, maybe even better since some people account for it in their regular shots all the time.

The Soma Prime alone can take you to 40 or even 60, but it requires skill to do so. Enemies don't just join a conga line in an open space for you to kill them all. That doesn't matter with EB though. Walls? Floors? Cover? Pshh.

It doesn't matter who does and doesn't have the mods, what matters is that it's OP when you DO have the mods. It doesn't matter who can and can't break the system if the system is broken. It's a pointless argument.

The Soma Prime alone can take you to 40 or even 60, but it requires skill to do so. Enemies don't just join a conga line in an open space for you to kill them all.

The wave is actually at a good size, and the attack speed isn't that slow either. You can get a pretty good amount of waves out in a pretty short amount of time. This shows that EB can actually be a pretty awesome ability. The only thing wrong with it is that it's TOO good.

Take an unmodded ANYTHING to lvl 60 enemies and it will suck. That doesn't apply to EB alone, you know. If you want to spam EB just keep hitting E. You don't absolutely need Fury or anything like that. Sure, it's better with it than without, but more damage is more damage, and it doesn't make much of a difference in the end.

[Tsoe]

 

TL;DR :read underlined parts

 

Hi everyone! I'm writing this because, after some time to recover from the Excal 2.0 hype (XD) I noticed something wrong with his 4th ability...

When I play with other Excaliburs all I hear is "swoosh-swoosh-swoosh"... this is the sound of the spam. And when I turn to see the origin of this sound, I see this Excal cutting the air, killing hordes of enemies dozens of meters away from him. Obviously I see no one caring for the awesome but unnecessary combos. Not talking about Slash Dash (which has lower range than the waves and still is highly unrelyable) And I have to admit that I, too, ended playing him this way.

But this is not melee combat. This is gun fighting.

The energy wave thing totally ruins the concept of the ability and the warframe itself. The blade is nothing more that a Fluctus with a cool sword skin.

 

About this, I thought  some solutions:

1)only some moves from some combos create energy waves.

This way you can't spam waves and you have to do specific moves to use them, thus promoting the use of different combos.

2)introduce a charge attack that creates a wave, while every other attack don't.

You could still spam, but it would be slow and not that effective. The wave could cost a bit of energy to discourage the abuse (I'd prefer, but it could not be necessary )

3)only when channeling you create waves, but that comes with more energy consumption, so that you could still spam, but you're more limited and need to think when you can do it

And that's it, tell me what you think ;)

 

Big up for charge atk  but with higher Statut chance to make it utility

 

also fall off damages to make up for the infinite punch trough

 

 

 

i love using EB combo but its not rewarding lol

 

 

only when fighting over lvl +70 at close range

Edited July 14, 2015 by Tsoe

[TheBrsrkr]

1) Travel time is meaningful because unless you're 10-15 m away from enemies who aren't running at you in straight line they won't be there when wave passes.

2)You could at least bother to learn Excalibur isn't affected by Energy Siphon when EB's active. For energy orbs you need them there and if enemies drop them or not is RNG. Beside, every energy leech eximus drains you faster and channeling can rip your energy away in no time. Please, don't tell "channeling useless". It is useful, Life Strike for example.

3)"He's not invincible" is important. You have to be aware of your surrounding instead of spinning like crazy and spamming E. If you do it chances are you'll be down quickly when this Bombard you didn't noticed fires at you. EB isn't Peacemaker, it's not aimbot with fixed range. Not to mention Excalibur constatnly moves forward when attacking so it's easy to leave your safe place.

4)Miasma is radial ability which hits EVERYTHING within its range which isn't protected by Nullifier. EB's punchtrough is nothing compared to it.

1) Travel time WOULD be important if you couldn't send 3 or 4 more waves in the same direction or after, with the same damage, at little cost.

2) RNG must smile a lot these days, because orbs drop pretty often if I remember. I was wrong about energy siphon, but I also didn't count Fleeting Expertise. I'll have to get actual values, but it still seems to me that EB is way too efficient for its relative power. Parasitic Eximi affect everyone equally, so I don't see your point. Channeling is not mandatory. If you want to use extra energy, go right ahead. Don't say its balanced because you were given a choice though.

3) he's not invincible........ So? Not many are. See:AkSoma Prime. Everyone has to be aware of their surroundings except Mesa and arguably Saryn. So EB should be broken because they're broken? That's stupid.

4) Miasma is also not a channeled ability. Or sword based. Or wave based. Or has autoparry. Or gives a stun on slide attack. So what? Abilities should be changed on their own merits and shortcomings. Not because one is better than the other.

[Slaviar]

1) Travel time WOULD be important if you couldn't send 3 or 4 more waves in the same direction or after, with the same damage, at little cost.

2) RNG must smile a lot these days, because orbs drop pretty often if I remember. I was wrong about energy siphon, but I also didn't count Fleeting Expertise. I'll have to get actual values, but it still seems to me that EB is way too efficient for its relative power. Parasitic Eximi affect everyone equally, so I don't see your point. Channeling is not mandatory. If you want to use extra energy, go right ahead. Don't say its balanced because you were given a choice though.

3) he's not invincible........ So? Not many are. See:AkSoma Prime. Everyone has to be aware of their surroundings except Mesa and arguably Saryn. So EB should be broken because they're broken? That's stupid.

4) Miasma is also not a channeled ability. Or sword based. Or wave based. Or has autoparry. Or gives a stun on slide attack. So what? Abilities should be changed on their own merits and shortcomings. Not because one is better than the other.

1) Yes, let's attack few enemies half a map away. You'll have to send wave after wave to be sure someone is hit. You could spend this time doing something useful.

2) Ok, so let's look at effect of modding him for str+eff. Max strange? Very poor efficiency. Max eff? RB ends almost before animation is finished. Modding for str+eff will get you killed AS SOON as you're surrounded. And not by lvl 100 enemies. 50 should be enough.

3) It shouldn't be broken... and it isn't broken.

4) And Miasma can be spammed much more than EB. Saryn can get more kills quicker than Excalibur.

 

I've played 60 mins of T3S with Excalibur. And I can tell you one thing- he's far from being op. Stop being careful and you're going down. Spam E mindlessly and you're down. Out of curiosity, how much you've played him since rework?

[izzatuw]

1) Yes, let's attack few enemies half a map away. You'll have to send wave after wave to be sure someone is hit. You could spend this time doing something useful.

2) Ok, so let's look at effect of modding him for str+eff. Max strange? Very poor efficiency. Max eff? RB ends almost before animation is finished. Modding for str+eff will get you killed AS SOON as you're surrounded. And not by lvl 100 enemies. 50 should be enough.

3) It shouldn't be broken... and it isn't broken.

4) And Miasma can be spammed much more than EB. Saryn can get more kills quicker than Excalibur.

I've played 60 mins of T3S with Excalibur. And I can tell you one thing- he's far from being op. Stop being careful and you're going down. Spam E mindlessly and you're down. Out of curiosity, how much you've played him since rework?

1) You can rush to those enemies head on and deflect their bullets and energy slash away. With Saryn you have to get some cover than find the ideal position to do so.

2) My blind lasts 2-4 seconds with max fleeting and R6 Transient with no +duration mods. I've been testing him for T4S lately and he's far more than capable of surviving with EB alone, especially with Life Strike.

4) True Saryn can get more kills but she has to properly activate them, her kills could be a 15/20 enemies in a room to a meager 5/20 in the room and that's 25 energy with max eff. Unlike Excal with max eff he has more than enough time to slash 20/20 enemies with the same amount of energy so Excal does do it slightly slower but he also does it much more efficiently.

[GuyOnCrack]

The Soma, being a crit based damage weapon, has several limiting factors. Low ammo efficiency (not as low as it should be), it's damage depends on RNG, medium recoil and a 3 second reload time. All of these featured can be mitigated, but not bypassed by skilled play.For all its dakka, the Soma has to be aimed at weak points to truly maximize damage. Limited punch through also applies here. Exalted blade has none of these limitations. If the Soma had travel time, it would still be a good weapon, maybe even better since some people account for it in their regular shots all the time.

The Soma Prime alone can take you to 40 or even 60, but it requires skill to do so. Enemies don't just join a conga line in an open space for you to kill them all. That doesn't matter with EB though. Walls? Floors? Cover? Pshh.

It doesn't matter who does and doesn't have the mods, what matters is that it's OP when you DO have the mods. It doesn't matter who can and can't break the system if the system is broken. It's a pointless argument.

The Soma Prime alone can take you to 40 or even 60, but it requires skill to do so. Enemies don't just join a conga line in an open space for you to kill them all.

The wave is actually at a good size, and the attack speed isn't that slow either. You can get a pretty good amount of waves out in a pretty short amount of time. This shows that EB can actually be a pretty awesome ability. The only thing wrong with it is that it's TOO good.

Take an unmodded ANYTHING to lvl 60 enemies and it will suck. That doesn't apply to EB alone, you know. If you want to spam EB just keep hitting E. You don't absolutely need Fury or anything like that. Sure, it's better with it than without, but more damage is more damage, and it doesn't make much of a difference in the end.

But you haven't answered the question at all, would the Soma be a top tier weapon if it had the same travel time as EB?

 

"Enemies don't just join a conga line in an open space for you to kill them all."

So this is a problem for a HIT Scan weapon but on a ability that has travel time, nope that's not an issue.

 

The waves are decent size up close but it's crazy to think that you can hit something at 40m accurately. The attack speed is decent, nothing like the Tipedo but it still a limiting factor and sheer dps is incredible small far away because of the travel time. Yes you could stand back far away and spam your waves until like level 80 but why would you? It's slow and easier to just get up close to F*** up enemies.

 

And you're not understanding my point of mods. My point is that the reason EB can murder low level enemies is because you can mod it for higher damage to slaughter low level enemies. Like any other weapon.