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What Are The Core Problems In Warframe ?


Henji
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The biggest problem is lack luster gameplay especially on higher levels of enemies.

 

Before level 40-50 you kill everything before it can even damage you, however, once the enemies get lots of health and damage all gameplay derails in to ability spam as enemies will kill you in matter of seconds.

 

There is just no way to avoid damage. There is no cover systems. Strafing and dodging does not matter as most enemies have hit scan weapons and ridiculous aim.

 

The worst part is that ability spam gameplay seems fine for developer and raid mission consists fully from it.

 

This ^^.  Law of Retribution needs major reworking along with nerfing the CC frames. Second level needs a complete redesign.

 

I'd add that the game is too easy once you potatoed your Boltor Prime.  There's no challenge any more.  No challenge means we have to get our thrills from playing Volt and coptering around at the speed of light.  There was a cool thread once about rewarding things like headshots and wall run kills.

 

You already mentioned weapon power disparity. Nerfing Boltor Prime ~10% and Soma Prime ~5% would be a good start.  Melee needs a fat buff.

 

Camping in survival.  Fix here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/494645-how-to-stop-camping-whilst-allowing-last-stands/#entry5529842

Nerf Draco farming.  Am sick of it filling my Recruitment chat.

 

 

I'd note that RNG and grindwalls are largely unavoidable.  Grindwalls because you guys play way too much for DE to provide enough content and RNG because it's better than being guaranteed earning 5% of an Ash Prime Systems...

Edited by Fifield
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First: this topic is not around a conspirancy its a fact, anyone who gives two dimes to this game knows the game suffers in the issues (or some of em) that I pointed out.

Second: I don't have a clue what you meant by salt...i prefer flamming if thats what you meant.

It's not the conspiracy, but what drew people to that conclusion.  Read through the thread before making comments about it.

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It's not the conspiracy, but what drew people to that conclusion.  Read through the thread before making comments about it.

I read it just before posting this topic and its frustration induced wich is never a good way to start a topic, I can tell for expirience, I do share some of his concerns, hell this topic can pretty much be considered as a reply to it but I don't want this topic to be considered as such, I aim to figure out and narrow the true core problems that are affecting players in Warframe not just my own.

If you or anyone else have any problems to the game that you may consider as a core problem I only ask that you guys post here, its the best, if not only, way to show the developers what should be a priority for em in the future. 

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Warframe needs work sure and feedback helps but when i see the general feedback and i see feedback in the other categories i see a toxic mess so im gonna have to go with " the biggest core problem with Warframe is its community" now I'm not saying its all bad but majority of it is nonsense people want this change or want this change or abuse this or that and when DE tries to implement some of the changes people cry. everyone knew corpus faction was a joke so they made nullifiers and people came into feedback to complain about it but it was a much needed unit for corpus now you have to take them seriously. people hated excal DE buffed it then added Mechanics then people complained so they completely reworked it now you have people complain about it being too op. its a very disgusting trend to see. you cannot please everyone and people need to understand how far Warframe has truely come from what it was 2 years ago.

I can't deny the truth in this. 

DE can't realy please evryone and I for one am happy for the buff excalibur got it was very needed and I do feel people are overreacting about nulifiers and bombards (its just a challange people need to overcome realy).

I know it looks quite OP now but given time DE will work on the other frames to keep em en par with excalibur and if memory doesn't fail me I did heard that Frost would be revisited at some time in the future as well.

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Warframe's core design problem is that it has too strong of an RPG methodology ham fisted into a shooter.  Borderlands made it work, but it had an end.  Warframe has no intended end beyond "collect everything," yet it also is being built like it utilizes a horizontal progression model.  Even if just for kicks, how many people here actually regularly visit Phobos, Earth, Europa, or Jupiter?  How about when just focused on progressing?  Worse, new weapons are constantly graded against the flavor of the month weaponry.  If they fall short, "mastery fodder."  If they actually get players another 5 minutes into a TIV survival, it's the new go to weapon.

 

The modding system is awesome, but the RPG system forces players to increase damage output through thoughtless mods like Serration and Split Chamber.  Staple mods that no weapon is worse off for having.  If all enemy encounters were designed around the idea of the Karak having 27 damage per shot, the Braton 18, etc, damage increasing mods could be done away with or at least severely culled down to far smaller numbers, like +20% extra damage tops on a max Serration.  +20% on a Karak is 32.4 damage.  If the typical Lancer has 150 effective health, that shaves off a round of life.  From 6 to 5 rounds.  At best, after a bunch of mods, a player might knock that number down to 3 rounds, but then they also have to contend with enemies that were intended to take 20+ Karak rounds as well.  Now, when you consider damage penalties and bonuses based on elements,   DE would have more actual control over enemy durability.  When enemies reliably take a range of rounds to kill, other mods like speed trigger and fast hands start looking more and more beneficial to just flat out trying to reduce all enemies to one-shot-kills via absurd damage gains.  I can guarantee that extra 90% firing rate will far outperform +20% more damage, but it'll cost the player.

Man I wish DE would Remake the modding system altogether. 

I found it inefficient and unecessarly confusing, my idea would be to get all mods and implement em in different sections of weapons and frame (torso, legs, handle, blade) and add slots so you could add a certain ammount of those reworked mods to improve your character and gear 

It would fix the mess of the mods list since they would be ordered in specific sections and it would determinate what each section role would be as if a real upgrade to your warframe not just a card with pretty colors and images. 

For sake of a better example take the enhacements we earn in the raid (trial), its pretty much like it but with the moding we already have plus orderly distributed.

Edited by Henji
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IMO:

 

- Broken scaling (for enemy damage and durability and for our own mods).

- Ridiculously unbalanced weapons (both up and op).

- Binary "progress" (you either get that thing or you don't, the latter usually giving you exactly zero progress to other areas).

- No indication of progress (apart from syndicates), which is impossible with gambling mechanics.

- Removal of player control is too common (and there's often no way to counter it).

Edited by The_Doc
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Not enough people invest in the game. DE has gained investment through a partnership and has gained funds from that deal, but who know when that money came in or will. Other than that the less than 200 person team must finance the game on crowd funding. This is why it must spend so much time on content that has grinds involved in hopes of triggering impulse buys.

If all the people who play WF invested at least ~$50 into the game it would be a smashing success(Not that is isn't successful).

Big enough chunks of money could free the studio to hire more, if it wanted to. To overlap other projects to keep staff busy when finished with tasks. Finish and lock features and systems, so that bugs would become somewhat less freaquent. Etc etc etc.

For obvious reasons this is not likely to happen. So, the biggest problem with Warframe is the perception that it is a finished and polished game that should be held to the standard of game like Destiny that had 5 years development before release and $500 million budget from major production company.

Warframe is a third person action shooter with rpg and MMO aspects. Using an engine equivalent to AAA games. With less than 200 dev's working on it round the clock. And it's free to play. This is not unprecedented, but is rare.

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Not enough people invest in the game. DE has gained investment through a partnership and has gained funds from that deal, but who know when that money came in or will. Other than that the less than 200 person team must finance the game on crowd funding. This is why it must spend so much time on content that has grinds involved in hopes of triggering impulse buys.

If all the people who play WF invested at least ~$50 into the game it would be a smashing success(Not that is isn't successful).

Big enough chunks of money could free the studio to hire more, if it wanted to. To overlap other projects to keep staff busy when finished with tasks. Finish and lock features and systems, so that bugs would become somewhat less freaquent. Etc etc etc.

For obvious reasons this is not likely to happen. So, the biggest problem with Warframe is the perception that it is a finished and polished game that should be held to the standard of game like Destiny that had 5 years development before release and $500 million budget from major production company.

Warframe is a third person action shooter with rpg and MMO aspects. Using an engine equivalent to AAA games. With less than 200 dev's working on it round the clock. And it's free to play. This is not unprecedented, but is rare.

I couldn't agree more with your point, I for one invest in the game whenever I can and i rarely use the trade for any reason if only when Im realy unlucky with the item im looking for.

I think having the conciense that you making a investiment to this project and helping improve it faster is important dispite what the industry actions may  create a prejudice regarding such actions.

As you said Warframe is one of a kind and I can only say on its defense that, in my expirience with so many other MMOs and online games, Warframe is one of a kind with quite honest development team that take some of their time off just to express their ideas and works in the game and not hiding behind the curtains making us wonder if our money is being well managed.

Transparity is very important and DE had my approval so far. 

EDIT: I oversaw the 200 people dev, thats indeed a unlikely number and as Davoodoo mentioned a more accurate number for the team would be around 50 plus.

Edited by Henji
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Other than that the less than 200 person team must finance the game on crowd funding. 

200 ppl dev team is huge, wow had around 100 for few expansions, it increased by about 40% when ppl who worked on titan were transfered there. Looking at amount of content added i would say that warframe dev team is around 50 guys.

 

Then you forget that de doesnt develop warframe only, they are working on sword coast legends and probably got some project which isnt announced, which further enforces my belief in 50 ppl dev team.

Edited by Davoodoo
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It's probably redundant to mention one of the big ones as it's being fixed in the next few weeks: lack of high end content.

It's T4S, T4D, Raid (Nightmare), Conclave and wherever you happen to level stuff.

 

I really think the game will improve significantly after U17.  They've intimated that they're looking at lack of challenge too in Star Map 3.0.

Edited by Fifield
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I read it just before posting this topic and its frustration induced wich is never a good way to start a topic, I can tell for expirience, I do share some of his concerns, hell this topic can pretty much be considered as a reply to it but I don't want this topic to be considered as such, I aim to figure out and narrow the true core problems that are affecting players in Warframe not just my own.

If you or anyone else have any problems to the game that you may consider as a core problem I only ask that you guys post here, its the best, if not only, way to show the developers what should be a priority for em in the future. 

actually, everyone already posted them in that thread, including myself.  These forums have a lot of people posting the same exact thing, so it saves extra trouble to just link it.

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200 ppl dev team is huge, wow had around 100 for few expansions, it increased by about 40% when ppl who worked on titan were transfered there. Looking at amount of content added i would say that warframe dev team is around 50 guys.

Then you forget that de doesnt develop warframe only, they are working on sword coast legends and probably got some project which isnt announced, which further enforces my belief in 50 ppl dev team.

Not equivalent. Wow engine is not as complicated as or as advanced as the Evolution engine, roughly equivalent to Unreal ~3.75-4.

Your other points stand, though. However, Ubisoft uses a big powerful engine and requires thousands of employees. Gets its games developed in a 2-3 year period. Millions in production up front. Bungie also has a small army and half a billion for there five horse development of Destiny. I don't think wow is a good example.

Edited by (PS4)MoRockaPDX
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Not equivalent. Wow engine is not as complicated as or as advanced as the Evolution engine, roughly equivalent to Unreal ~3.75-4.

Your other points stand, though. However, Ubisoft uses a big powerful engine and requires thousands of employees. Gets its games developed in a 2-3 year period. Millions in production up front. Bungie also has a small army and half a billion for there five horse development of Destiny. I don't think wow is a good example.

Tbh i can bet that neither you or i worked on either evolution engine or wow engine. Thing is 1 was developed 11 years ago when such old engine was pretty advanced piece of technology and no engine is so easy to use that you can just cut development team in half and produce twice as much content.

 

Tbh destiny and its 500 man team is from what i know 1st time such a big team was put to work on a game and developing game itself is much harder and time consuming than developing additional content for it.

As for ubisoft and its development teams, company claims having 400 to 600 dev teams, their employees however report lower than 300 man teams. All working on open world titles which require tons of texutres and models.

To prove my point, ubisoft itself put info that AC cost them 10millions to make(including marketing costs), how the hell would you keep 400 man team and cost so low.

Edited by Davoodoo
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The wow engine is an isometric platform. It is an order magnitude less complicated than making full 3d envirments. Not saying it is an easy thing, but but easier.

Those other studios are still several times larger and have budgets ahead of time from publishers. They also can reasonably project, or forecast certian sales based on marketing exposure and vender deals. This changes the kind of plans a Dev can make on building a game.

DE's situation is closer to that of a crowd funded early access to a AAA game. Not a game you pay up front for, and should reasonably expect to be finished and polished.

Everyone has there own standards and threshold for free to play and grinds. For the value and risk proposition of investing in a game in open development. If Warframe doesn't meet your standard, but it doesn't change the fact that Warframe is in open development, and that do to the nature of its business model, parts of the game will feel this way for a long time to come.

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I think the biggest core problem in Warframe is that it's becoming less interesting to play since DE keeps adding fake difficulty to the game. Nullifiers, Corrupted Ancients, Mutalist Infested... they're all just examples of the same thing: limitations.

 

Nullifiers give you two options, high rate of fire or melee slash. How does that make my game more fun to play?

 

Corrupted ancients force me to focus on them alone since they make everything practically invulnerable around them.

 

The mutalists drown you in status ailments at all times, making your options very limited. Either use a status mitigating Warframe or spam enough AoEs to avoid getting hit with status ailments.

 

DE needs to stop trying to decide how players are to play the game. The reason many of us are here is because Warframe used to offer diversity in tackling different problems. Now it seems we're getting that freedom taken away from us, one update at a time. I'm quite honestly very concerned about Parkour 2.0 as well since that also seems like another limitation rather than an option. Sure, it looks fancy, but it also looks VERY slow.

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I think the biggest core problem in Warframe is that it's becoming less interesting to play since DE keeps adding fake difficulty to the game.

 

That's what's making it more interesting for anyone who been playing a while and isn't a noob.  I can actually pretend it's challenging now, even if it isn't really.

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actually, everyone already posted them in that thread, including myself. These forums have a lot of people posting the same exact thing, so it saves extra trouble to just link it.

I wouldn't expect anything else considering the posts are similar but as also considering that one was locked Its only just to create another and make sure this one isn't locked by the same reason as its predecessor. Edited by Henji
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That's what's making it more interesting for anyone who been playing a while and isn't a noob.  I can actually pretend it's challenging now, even if it isn't really.

 

I've got 1500 hours in the game myself. I don't know how you can even pretend it's a challenge when it's just a simple question of which meta to abuse. I'd like to do other things than adhere to those silly metas, but if I do that, then it becomes so tedious that I just get frustrated and stop playing.

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I've got 1500 hours in the game myself. I don't know how you can even pretend it's a challenge when it's just a simple question of which meta to abuse. I'd like to do other things than adhere to those silly metas, but if I do that, then it becomes so tedious that I just get frustrated and stop playing.

Can you give some examples of what are those ''meta'' ? 

My guess its  mod builds, if so how they affect the game expirience ?

Edited by Henji
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I've got 1500 hours in the game myself. I don't know how you can even pretend it's a challenge when it's just a simple question of which meta to abuse. I'd like to do other things than adhere to those silly metas, but if I do that, then it becomes so tedious that I just get frustrated and stop playing.

 

You probably should stop playing.    You sound like you hate the game.

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The core problem of Warframe is that it is still in development. There are so many things the dev's plates, both new content and old content that has to be updated (pbr, rebalance).

Warframe is predominantly a PvE game with as many updates and tweaks as LoL. Not numerically but in terms of frequency. A lot of time people make unfair observations because they forget or dismiss just how incomplete the game is. The campaign was put on hold because of yet another star chart remake that will reduce the number of nodes. Not just for players mind you, but developers too. Imagine making the campaign with all those nodes, a staggering task. Furthermore the campaign will most likely be open ended. Anyway, that's just quest /story, we have a revamp of parkour, a lot of older frames getting revamped while new ones are being worked on.

My point is, a lot of work to do, and we want it now, but it's going to take years. I'm glad we don't have to wait those years to actually play this awesome game :).

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Honestly, the way I see it, the core game problem isn't the game and it isn't even in the game. It's in the Dev team. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the Devs - they're all wonderful people and they're definitely more friendly than any other team I've seen in the industry - that almost goes without saying.

The flaw I that I'm never really sure what their intent is, so I can't always give them feedback on how to make their game better. They nerfed EGate but didn't say why - are we not supposed to camp? Do they not want us to have good mods? Is it just that they don't like camping? I just don't know what they wanted to accomplish or what they want in this game

The only solution I see for this aspect would be to include the intent in the Devstreams or the build notes. Such as "We made these changed to nerf EGate - our intent is xxxxxxx.

That's not necessarily the core game problems, but it's the thing that makes it hard for me to identify or try to solve those.

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