Mods And Slots - The Real Problem

[BlackCoMerc]

This may have been said before. In fact I am certain it was. But it bears repeating:

 

The real problem with mods, slots and limited space is Redirection, Vitality and Steel Fiber. Not their cost; not the (ridiculous) cost in Credits and Cores to rank them. Sure that's bad. But that is still just a symptom and I am looking at root causes here. 

 

The real problem with mods and slots and limited space is that Redirection, Vitality and Steel Fiber exist in the first place. 

 

There is no reason why Frames should not reach the maximum potential for Armor, Health and Shields simply achieving rank 30. Imagine how much easier the game would be to balance, if you knew what the maximum for those three attributes would be on every frame. Imagine how much less frustrated players would be, if they no longer needed to give up 2-3 slots per frame to enhance things that already exist, as opposed to creating new play styles. Imagine how much happier everyone would be with this one, simple change.

 

Dont get me wrong. I still think Vigor and Armored Agility should exist. I do. These mods offer multiple bonuses or buff more than one stat. That should require a Mod Slot. But simply maxing Armor, Health and Shields should in no way require mod slots in the first place. The current system forces us to limit play style-specific builds for the sake of buffing things that already exist on the Frame, makes balancing later game content more difficult and in general frustrates more people than it makes happy by a fair margin, I do believe.

 

Bake in Redirection, Steel Fiber and Vitality and let mods change play styles as opposed to just buffing existing parts of a frame.

[Dragazer]

This may have been said before. In fact I am certain it was. But it bears repeating:

 

The real problem with mods, slots and limited space is Redirection, Vitality and Steel Fiber. Not their cost; not the (ridiculous) cost in Credits and Cores to rank them. Sure that's bad. But that is still just a symptom and I am looking at root causes here. 

 

The real problem with mods and slots and limited space is that Redirection, Vitality and Steel Fiber exist in the first place. 

 

There is no reason why Frames should not reach the maximum potential for Armor, Health and Shields simply achieving rank 30. Imagine how much easier the game would be to balance, if you knew what the maximum for those three attributes would be on every frame. Imagine how much less frustrated players would be, if they no longer needed to give up 2-3 slots per frame to enhance things that already exist, as opposed to creating new play styles. Imagine how much happier everyone would be with this one, simple change.

 

Dont get me wrong. I still think Vigor and Armored Agility should exist. I do. These mods offer multiple bonuses or buff more than one stat. That should require a Mod Slot. But simply maxing Armor, Health and Shields should in no way require mod slots in the first place. The current system forces us to limit play style-specific builds for the sake of buffing things that already exist on the Frame, makes balancing later game content more difficult and in general frustrates more people than it makes happy by a fair margin, I do believe.

 

Bake in Redirection, Steel Fiber and Vitality and let mods change play styles as opposed to just buffing existing parts of a frame.

Not really, I know some people who run rage and life strike builds on some of their frames so the shields mean better.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Dragazer

[Kalvorax]

Even if they DONT bake them in, they should be ADDING TO THE RANK 30 Frame and NOT rank 0 (still one of the stupidest things I see so far)

 

afaik Flow (and primed) is the ONLY one that makes true use of rank 30, and even then it only x2 the energy (which most frames are relatively low on, forcing the use of the Power Efficiency mods) (other thing with power is Why dont we start at full power from the start and why some frames start with over 100 power while most start with 50.

Edited July 25, 2015 by xcynderx

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

This may have been said before. In fact I am certain it was. But it bears repeating:

 

The real problem with mods, slots and limited space is Redirection, Vitality and Steel Fiber. Not their cost; not the (ridiculous) cost in Credits and Cores to rank them. Sure that's bad. But that is still just a symptom and I am looking at root causes here. 

 

The real problem with mods and slots and limited space is that Redirection, Vitality and Steel Fiber exist in the first place. 

 

There is no reason why Frames should not reach the maximum potential for Armor, Health and Shields simply achieving rank 30. Imagine how much easier the game would be to balance, if you knew what the maximum for those three attributes would be on every frame. Imagine how much less frustrated players would be, if they no longer needed to give up 2-3 slots per frame to enhance things that already exist, as opposed to creating new play styles. Imagine how much happier everyone would be with this one, simple change.

 

Dont get me wrong. I still think Vigor and Armored Agility should exist. I do. These mods offer multiple bonuses or buff more than one stat. That should require a Mod Slot. But simply maxing Armor, Health and Shields should in no way require mod slots in the first place. The current system forces us to limit play style-specific builds for the sake of buffing things that already exist on the Frame, makes balancing later game content more difficult and in general frustrates more people than it makes happy by a fair margin, I do believe.

 

Bake in Redirection, Steel Fiber and Vitality and let mods change play styles as opposed to just buffing existing parts of a frame.

 

No thank you. I run quite a lot of builds that forsake either of these things. No shields, no health no armor Loki comes to mind. No health, no armor Rhino is another. No health no shields Valkyr. No health no armor health Zephyr. I want more choice, not less.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Hap-muhr

[[DE]Grzegorz]

afaik Flow (and primed) is the ONLY one that makes true use of rank 30, and even then it only x2 the energy (which most frames are relatively low on, forcing the use of the Power Efficiency mods) (other thing with power is Why dont we start at full power from the start and why some frames start with over 100 power while most start with 50.

Flow and Primed Flow are again, based off Rank 0 frame, this way +150% Flow doubles energy reserve of Lv30 frame.

[Drufo]

Like many have said, those mods exist to give player choice.Your proposition removes that bit of build personalitation 

[(PSN)theelix]

I don't understand your point; These three mods are used to make you realize that preparation is key to fighting and coming out on top in the battle, before it starts. It's to allow you to learn that there are some things that should go on some frames, and some things that shouldn't go on them.

 

Henceforth, having these three mods allows you to eventually realize that Redirection SHOULDN'T be on Valkyr, Vitality and Steel Fiber should, even though none of those three are mandatory because base stats can get you through anyway. It's to teach that preparation is key to being successful.

 

The REAL problem with mods and mod slots are mods that are ABSOLUTELY mandatory in order to use things in the game; Serration, Hornet Strike, Pressure point are absolute in this game; you're not going to reach higher level content without it without major difficulty. They should be removed and installed on all weapons, or simply removed and have all the enemies toned down so that it's proportionate to when they existed.

 

I mean, when you play a frame, you can make that choice. You can not put on Vitality, Redirection, or Steel Fiber and get through missions just fine, depending on how you play, with no loss of speed. Running through a game with a Mag without redirection doesn't mean you have to hide behind cover like this is darkSector, but it means you have to be diligent with Shield and Health status and pay attention to how often you use Shield Polarize, and when. Most powers can allow you to reduce your dependency on Vitality, Redirection and Steel Fiber. But with weapons there is no ifs and or buts.

[AdFinitum]

I would like to disagree :

 

My frames either use Vitality or Redirection - almost never both. They are not mandatory at all. On some builds I use neither because we have other means of damage reduction / EHP : for instance Quick Thinking or Shield Transference.

 

Actually the mods you mentioned are some of the few mods that support build diversity.

 

Giving a max rank Warframe max stats will remove this diversity / flexibility. And furthermore it would buff warframes beyond anything possible now.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

This may have been said before. In fact I am certain it was. But it bears repeating:

The real problem with mods, slots and limited space is Redirection, Vitality and Steel Fiber. Not their cost; not the (ridiculous) cost in Credits and Cores to rank them. Sure that's bad. But that is still just a symptom and I am looking at root causes here.

The real problem with mods and slots and limited space is that Redirection, Vitality and Steel Fiber exist in the first place.

There is no reason why Frames should not reach the maximum potential for Armor, Health and Shields simply achieving rank 30. Imagine how much easier the game would be to balance, if you knew what the maximum for those three attributes would be on every frame. Imagine how much less frustrated players would be, if they no longer needed to give up 2-3 slots per frame to enhance things that already exist, as opposed to creating new play styles. Imagine how much happier everyone would be with this one, simple change.

Dont get me wrong. I still think Vigor and Armored Agility should exist. I do. These mods offer multiple bonuses or buff more than one stat. That should require a Mod Slot. But simply maxing Armor, Health and Shields should in no way require mod slots in the first place. The current system forces us to limit play style-specific builds for the sake of buffing things that already exist on the Frame, makes balancing later game content more difficult and in general frustrates more people than it makes happy by a fair margin, I do believe.

Bake in Redirection, Steel Fiber and Vitality and let mods change play styles as opposed to just buffing existing parts of a frame.

Alternative(since as mentioned rage+lifestrike builds kinda work against shields):

*basestats become a bar you can seperately lvl or decrease on frames. Same concept, consumes cores and credits, decreasing only costs credits to up/downgrade the ranks. Less compared to the mods tho since you need to max them seperately

-not that difficult for beginners

-more mod slots

Multiple loadouts would do this concept a favor, just assign them to the mod loadouts later on. The existing maxed mods could be paid out.

[Enchillado]

You know this is a bad suggestion when someone wants to remove well working thing and gives nothing interesting to replace it.

[weezedog]

I would like to disagree :

 

My frames either use Vitality or Redirection - almost never both. They are not mandatory at all. On some builds I use neither because we have other means of damage reduction / EHP : for instance Quick Thinking or Shield Transference.

 

Actually the mods you mentioned are some of the few mods that support build diversity.

 

Giving a max rank Warframe max stats will remove this diversity / flexibility. And furthermore it would buff warframes beyond anything possible now.

Yep they aren't mandatory, and neither is reviving you. When I see people coming in with only 225 shield/health, I let them die if they go down all the time. I don't risk the objective for someone who doesn't come prepared. But if they are a good player and can take care of themselves I'm happy to lend a hand.