Extremely Simple, Yet Effective, Spectral Scream/effigy Buff

[Magneu]

I see a lot of people saying that Effigy doesn't do enough damage, and in very high levels dies too fast (and we don't even need to talk about Spectral Scream); what if Vex Armor's Scorn and Fury buff applied to both skills? Would give more incentive to micromanage buffs and substantially buff both skills when used at the same time as Chroma's buffs (synergy between skills in a frame, anyone?). And for anyone curious, I've crunched some numbers on what should be the maximum possible damage of both skills with the Fury buff applied;

 

Spectral Scream would hit 2,822.96 damage a second (568*4.97).

Effigy would hit 5,645.22 damage a second (1136*4.97).

 

Now before you cry "OP! OP!", let me explain;

 

This is not only ignoring efficiency/survivability mods (this would require all three maxed strength mods, and at minimum a maxed Narrow Minded and Constitution and/or (Primed) Continuity to have enough duration to be able to actually reach the 4.97 multiplier ceiling of Vex Armor (every hit of health would convert to 4.97% Fury), even with 175% efficiency, it would also be incredibly power hungry; at max strength and 135% efficiency, it would cost 81.25 energy to buff up,  32.5 energy to deploy Effigy, then 6.5 energy a second to keep it up (spectral Scream would cost the same to sustain, albeit with 3.4 meters of range in the build I slapped together). 

 

In addition, applying not only Scorn, but Chroma's modded armor stats (possible max of +155% armor with mods) to Effigy (I would assume its base armor would be 50% of whatever Chroma's modded armor was), would help its survivability greatly, without making it invincible.

 

And if you still aren't convinced that this is balanced, let's compare to some other popular frame's combos;

 

185% strength Ash, with a 2x combo counter multiplier and 1x Steel Charge; initial hit of 11,840 per hit (2000*1.85*2*1.6), with added bleed damage of 29,008 over seven seconds (per target).

 

185% strength Excalibur, Slash Dash initial hit no multipliers, 5,476  damage (Pressure Point, Blade of Truth, 3x 90% elementals). This is a low hit too, as my Surging Dash gives 9 hits to counter each hit, and Arcane Avenger lets Dash dash crit (unknown multiplier, but I've personally seen a 17k crit after 2-3 dashes on a level 25 Bombard). And we don't even need to talk about Exalted Blade+Radial Blind) (my math on Slash Dash is kinda spotty here though).

 

Any strength Nova Antimatter Drop+Molecular Prime...yeah.

 

Basically, this proposed buff would give Effigy and Spectral Scream a pretty high ceiling for damage, with pretty severe limitations;

1. Have to mod maximum strength to hit the numbers above, while also getting enough duration to use the buffs, while not slaughtering efficiency for Effigy.

2. Any good Chroma build utilizes a high ranked Narrow Minded, which will reduce Spectral Scream to 3.4 meters with no other range mods (so with Fury, a devastating close range attack, or if you mod differently, a field clearing flamethrower).

3. Time required to "charge" Vex Armor to be able to do more damage with both abilities.

4. Management of buffs.

5. Vast energy cost.

6. Veteran player level ranked/rarity mods/fusing costs.

 

EDIT: To bring it all together, with 135% efficiency and max strength, the total cost to get Spectral Scream/Effigy to the above potential DPS would be 146.25 energy to have Spectral Scream up for 10 seconds, plus however long it takes to hit your Scorn/Fury ceiling, and 178.75 energy to have Effigy up for 10 seconds (and about half that time is going to be Effigy being deployed/doing its scream stun). If you think that price is too cheap for a maximum less than 3k and less than 6k DPS for Spectral Scream and Effigy, respectively, then you really need to take a look at practically any other damage dealing frame.

 

TL:DR; Make Spectral Scream/Effigy affected by Vex Armor buffs (and give Spectral Scream more range for Pete's sake!)

Edited July 29, 2015 by Magneu

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 OP

[Jamescell]

No thanks. It would make my current max efficiency and power min duration build less viable than the mainstream builds. I'd just like to see it drain less energy per second. 

Edited July 28, 2015 by Jamescell

[climatiseur]

In fact when Chroma first came out, this is what I thought it is for his 1st and 4th...because it's just so naturally make sense to be.

 

However it was not. ...

[rawr1254]

Yea...have to say NOPE to this buff I mean...now to farm a good amount of credits SO many people will just go in a game with max strength chromas and a trin so it'll just be another Draco incident only with credits being abused...So to explain what'd have to happen is your buff will be applied(Yay) Only now no credits from Effigy. Glad you mentioned your buff? Lol

[RealPandemonium]

Basically, this proposed buff would give Effigy and Spectral Scream a pretty high ceiling for damage, with pretty severe limitations;

1. Have to mod maximum strength to hit the numbers above, while also getting enough duration to use the buffs, while not slaughtering efficiency for Effigy.

2. Any good Chroma build utilizes a high ranked Narrow Minded, which will reduce Spectral Scream to 3.4 meters with no other range mods (so with Fury, a devastating close range attack, or if you mod differently, a field clearing flamethrower).

3. Time required to "charge" Vex Armor to be able to do more damage with both abilities.

4. Management of buffs.

5. Vast energy cost.

7. Veteran player level ranked/rarity mods/fusing costs.

 

TL:DR; Make Spectral Scream/Effigy affected by Vex Armor buffs (and give Spectral Scream more range for Pete's sake!)

1. You can just use 212% strength and keep max efficiency or drop BR and use 185% str with 10% bonus duration.  Your breath abilities will still deal stupid damage with pretty much no trade-off.

2. That's a bit of a generalization.  You can use a half-ranked NM or skip it entirely and still have a working build, albeit one that requires you to stay awake.

3. Takes a couple of seconds exposed to enemy fire in the worst of circumstances.

4. Gotta remember to press 2 and 3, yo!

5. Max efficiency and blue pizzas make this a non-issue.

6. There is no six.

7. "I had to grind to become OP" is not a justification for having OP stuff in the game.

 

I agree with Scorn applying to Effigy but I feel that loading Fury's damage buff onto Chroma's AOE would make it a little too powerful except in post-game content.  

[Magneu]

No thanks. It would make my current max efficiency and power min duration build less viable than the mainstream builds. I'd just like to see it drain less energy per second. 

This change would do literally nothing positive or negative to your build. It would remain just as viable as before; because Arcanes exist, if I don't have a maxed Avenger/Grace, am I underpowered? Nope.

Yea...have to say NOPE to this buff I mean...now to farm a good amount of credits SO many people will just go in a game with max strength chromas and a trin so it'll just be another Draco incident only with credits being abused...So to explain what'd have to happen is your buff will be applied(Yay) Only now no credits from Effigy. Glad you mentioned your buff? Lol

Wow, a whole 25 meters kill, IF the Infested have damaged you enough to give good damage. It's not like there;s a 50 meter auto target, or a 37.5 meter Corrosive nuke, or  58.5 meter Blast nuke and CC...wait.

 

Chroma will give you double credits on kill, I believe, with Effigy. Wow, (with booster), I just got a whole 300 credits from that Charger. A speed Nova and any non LoS nuker will get you through 5 waves of Sechura in just a few minutes. I really don't think making SS/Effigy actually damaging would be as big of a deal as you think. Where did you get the idea I would remove the credit buff? That's honestly more of an easter egg than anything, that only really comes out when double credit weekends happen.

 

1. You can just use 212% strength and keep max efficiency or drop BR and use 185% str with 10% bonus duration.  Your breath abilities will still deal stupid damage with pretty much no trade-off.

2. That's a bit of a generalization.  You can use a half-ranked NM or skip it entirely and still have a working build, albeit one that requires you to stay awake.

3. Takes a couple of seconds exposed to enemy fire in the worst of circumstances.

4. Gotta remember to press 2 and 3, yo!

5. Max efficiency and blue pizzas make this a non-issue.

6. There is no six.

7. "I had to grind to become OP" is not a justification for having OP stuff in the game.

 

I agree with Scorn applying to Effigy but I feel that loading Fury's damage buff onto Chroma's AOE would make it a little too powerful except in post-game content.  

Totally didn't notice I skipped six, derp. But anyway;

1. That would require forsaking survivability/augment mods. In addition, it would require a max Intensify, Streamline, Transient Fortitude, Fleeting Expertise, and I believe a rank two Blind Rage. That leaves you three spots for armor/health/duration. Good luck getting far in Void with that.

2. Have fun with a 30 second buff (in addition, why the hell would you not use a max NM on Chroma? It hurts the range on Elemental Ward (already sucky range) and Spectral Scream (gimmicky, useless ability. Jump kicking an enemy in the face is more effective CC. And if you argue "not everyone has a maxed NM, please both look at my #1 in this post, as well as remembering that my calculated numbers assume three rank 10 rare Corrupted mods, a rank five rare Corrupted mod, and a rank 10 Legendary mod (and to stay alive, I also use two rank 10 common mods).

3. Large amount of time compared to 15-20 hits with melee/Bladestorm (just use fast weapon or a couple Bladestorms in a row) or Blind and Exalted Wave spam.

4. Management of buffs is a pretty unique trait to Chroma, only really shared with Trinity and Mirage, maybe Loki/Ash if you count that. Jumping into the fray with 5 seconds on buffs is a really bad idea.

5. Max efficiency and blue pizzas make EVERYTHING a non-issue.

6. Nothing needs be said.

7. First off, if you think this buff is OP, you need to go play a Bladestorm Ash, Exalted Excalibur, Miasma Sayrn, Peacemaker Mesa, and a multitude of other frames, to even start to say that a base 10 meter range ability, with a maximum damage output of less than 3k DPS after being smacked around is even close to OP (Effigy would have a ceiling of less than 6k DPS, with a locked in 25 meter range; My 185% strength Mesa crits all the time for 4k+ on level 40 Grineer at 50 meters, at a rate of over 10 shots a second...Effigy would NOT be OP). Slash Dash is more powerful by itself. Effigy already does terrible damage as is, with mediocre CC to boot (Rhino/Frost can freeze/slow an entire tile easily as well as buffing damage/protecting an objective 100%. Effigy is too sporiadic.

 

Second, the reason I mention veteran level mods is that my calculated numbers assume you have minimum three rank 10 rare Corrupted mods (with another rank 5 rare Corrupted mod, and for my build a rank 10 Legendary mod; do you even realize how many credits/cores that is?? This is not a case of a newbie picking up a few mods for melee/frame, getting Excalibur, and suddenly killing level 60+ with ease, while remaining mostly invulnerable. This is a case of a severely underpowered ability having a potential do to damage close to some other skills, only if you fulfill the criteria.

 

Effigy's "AOE" lasts for about 3 seconds, also; Stomp is a base eight, Blind is a five second stun and 15 second blind. I would love to hear your justification about how Effigy can lock down an area for the energy cost of a myriad of other skills.

 

Basically, my buffs would make using ALL of Chroma's skills more viable and more fun, instead of being buffed 24/7, popping Effigy when you want to grab energy or run away.

[Magneu]

I honestly don't get why people are against this. To compare;

 

At MAXIMUM strength, Effigy will do 1136 DPS in a 25 meter range (with a 60% chance to proc whatever element you have equipped), sporadically stunning enemies in a 25 meter radius. It will cost 32.5 energy to deploy, and 6.5 energy per second to sustain, with 22,720 health, while also taking 50% of Chroma's armor from him.

 

Spectral Scream will do 568 damage per second in a 14.5 meter range (if you've slotted Stretch), with a 60% status chance, and will cost 6.5 energy a second, while also reducing Chroma to a quarter or so of walk speed, and make him unable to use advanced manuevers.

 

My 185% strength Excalibur can deal constant 6k+ crits against level 95 Gunners at a 40 meter range, at the potential rate of four or so attacks per second, while remaining 100% invulnerable to them from the front (except for status procs, for some reason), and being able to utilize syndicate procs. And if the enemy is within 25 meters and I can blind them, my waves deal up to 44k on a crit (that I've seen), while still having all of the above benefits. Best part?

 

1 energy per second cost.

 

Hell, my Slash Dash starts at around 6.5-7.5k without anything on the combo counter against level 40 Grineer.

 

Please tell me exactly why Chroma shouldn't get this situational, energy intensive buff?

[rawr1254]

For every buff there is usually some sort of fallback somewhere else And with that damage buff its a lot more than you think just at 185 strength my effigy can take out infested pretty fast so i mean this buff'll be like having an alt form of regulators at half the range which is still a huge buff considering his armor etc so...instead let it be an augment that allows vex armor to buff it but depending on how high its buffed itll drain a lot more energy. But now your down a mod slot so gl

[Magneu]

For every buff there is usually some sort of fallback somewhere else And with that damage buff its a lot more than you think just at 185 strength my effigy can take out infested pretty fast so i mean this buff'll be like having an alt form of regulators at half the range which is still a huge buff considering his armor etc so...instead let it be an augment that allows vex armor to buff it but depending on how high its buffed itll drain a lot more energy. But now your down a mod slot so gl

Except Effigy is single target and focused on damage over time, instead of burst damage. It would also require Chroma to be hit a good amount by the Infested to even get that damage. Ad if you think less than 6k DPS at max strength is a lot, IDK what to tell you. Look at my comparisons above to see how even with this buff (assuming you meet all the criteria), Effigy would still fall far, far FAR from other damage based ultimates.

 

This buff doesn't have a major fallback, because the skills are lackluster to begin with.

 

Also, please explain how it's "more than I think". I did the math in my original post. It's not a lot. It would still be one of the weaker damaging skills at max strength after you've built up Fury. Infested also are the weakest (healthwise) faction in the game, with no armor or shielding. Anything can take down Infested quickly.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Magneu

[rawr1254]

Except Effigy is single target and focused on damage over time, instead of burst damage. It would also require Chroma to be hit a good amount by the Infested to even get that damage. Ad if you think less than 6k DPS at max strength is a lot, IDK what to tell you. Look at my comparisons above to see how even with this buff (assuming you meet all the criteria), Effigy would still fall far, far FAR from other damage based ultimates.

 

This buff doesn't have a major fallback, because the skills are lackluster to begin with.

 

Also, please explain how it's "more than I think". I did the math in my original post. It's not a lot. It would still be one of the weaker damaging skills at max strength after you've built up Fury. Infested also are the weakest (healthwise) faction in the game, with no armor or shielding. Anything can take down Infested quickly.

Takes like 3 seconds to max vex from melee hits even from low lv enemies and theyre all melee. Anything can take down Infested quickly. You pretty much just said he doesn't need a buff but w/e

[(XBOX)CeaselessSlim]

+1 OP

was gonna rant on how good ideas Luke this get shot down because of dumb reasoning (builds will be less viable because of the mainstream builds.... :/)

By its best to leave it alone

[Magneu]

Takes like 3 seconds to max vex from melee hits even from low lv enemies and theyre all melee. Anything can take down Infested quickly. You pretty much just said he doesn't need a buff but w/e

Your reasoning is extremely confusing. At max strength, every point of health taken off gives 4.97% to Fury; ergo, it will take 100 health to max out Fury. Assuming that you've maxed Scorn before, you have an armor buff of 994%% AFTER applying mod/Elemental Ward buffs. Yes, that is a 9.94 multiplier that is multiplied after every other buff possible to armor. This gives Chroma easily the highest armor in the game, and if you think a low level enemy is gonna be able to do 100 damage very quickly through that, good luck.

 

Just cause I'm bored, with a standard Steel Fiber build, my maxed Arcane Guardian, and a 155% strength build, my Chroma will hit: 

 

(350*(2.1 (Steel Fiber))+(350*1.6 (Arcane Guardian)+(813.75 (Elemental Ice Ward))*5.425 (Scorn buff)=9541.21 armor

 

This works out to an effective health pool of 24,274.98, not even counting the slow effect on enemies slowing damage output.

 

If you think a level 20 Charger is going to fully charge your Scorn and Fury buffs in three seconds, even solo, without a companion, you're sorely mistaken. I say that anything can kill Infested easily because, well, it's true; they're the weakest (health wise) faction in the game. I really don't understand why you don't want Spectral Scream/Effigy to have the potential to do subpar DPS compared to almost any rifle/any other ability.

 

I think I've established that I have a lot more experience with Chroma than you, and as such am a bit more knowledgable on how effective Spectral Scream and Effigy are in the damage department.

 

Does Chroma as a frame need a buff? No, not particularly; I did a 76 minute survival with a random guy today on Egeria, Ceres, and was standing toe to toe with level 160+Eximus Grineer; I could take rather focused fire for about 8-10 seconds before having to use Life Strike (it was a bit laggy, which probably helped). Did I use Spectral Scream? Once, the whole match, just for kicks and giggles. Did I use Effigy? As a distraction (epic flying dragon=distraction...huh). Does Chroma's  first and fourth ability need something to make them at all competitive with other frame's ultimates?

 

Hell yes.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Magneu

[RealPandemonium]

snip

I figured this would boil down to "everything can already get so OP in this game, this is just a drop in the bucket."

 

I guess it's just too late to keep things toned down since DE doesn't care.  

[Magneu]

I figured this would boil down to "everything can already get so OP in this game, this is just a drop in the bucket."

 

I guess it's just too late to keep things toned down since DE doesn't care.  

If less than 3k with extremely limited range/no mobility and less than 6k as an ultimate skill give rise to worries about being OP, maybe we should all go back to starter gear for everything (and those numbers are best case scenario!).

[Magneu]

To reiterate for anyone who doesn't want to read previous posts; with this buff, best case scenario is around 3k DPS out of Spectral Scream, around 6k DPS out of Effigy, and IDK what the armor calculation for Effigy would work out to be (just got off of work and too tired to do that right now).

 

If those highly situational, limited range number worry, you, then you may want to rethink everything you believe about the Warframe damage system. A Braton can hit those numbers.

 

Edited July 29, 2015 by Magneu

[RealPandemonium]

If less than 3k with extremely limited range/no mobility and less than 6k as an ultimate skill give rise to worries about being OP, maybe we should all go back to starter gear for everything (and those numbers are best case scenario!).

It's less about the gear (or at least it was before the powecreep started to go in hard) and more about how mods make things much stronger than they need to be.  

[FelisImpurrator]

Honestly, the two things I want to see for Spectral Scream are A) Longer range, and B) No movement penalty whatsoever - replaces your weapons, but you can parkour anywhere with it.

 

Why?

 

Because I want to be able to aim glide with Chroma, constantly raining elemental death down on enemies. He is a dragon.

[Magneu]

Honestly, the two things I want to see for Spectral Scream are A) Longer range, and B) No movement penalty whatsoever - replaces your weapons, but you can parkour anywhere with it.

 

Why?

 

Because I want to be able to aim glide with Chroma, constantly raining elemental death down on enemies. He is a dragon.

This. I LIKE THIS. Shuriken has a base 25 meter range, auto target, same as Smite, Fireball....why can't a weaker skill get similar range?

[Kruglov]

Honestly, the two things I want to see for Spectral Scream are A) Longer range, and B) No movement penalty whatsoever - replaces your weapons, but you can parkour anywhere with it.

 

Why?

 

Because I want to be able to aim glide with Chroma, constantly raining elemental death down on enemies. He is a dragon.

 

Pretty much this.

And as nice as the idea of Vex Armor affecting Effigy and Scream is, it doesnt really help the inherent flaws with the abilities.

 

Effigy is still VERY expensive to use and immobile. You have to mod for max efficiency to get real use out of it which eats up space Chroma wants for Strength mods.

 

Spectral Scream still has a tiny range and renders one nearly immobile, providing no benefit outside of a cool screaching sound.

 

Even with Effigy doing that much damage, its still pretty much an angry lawn sprinkler that costs lots of energy to use and only really functions well on interception, defense, and excavation.

[FelisImpurrator]

 

At least with my Spectral changes you could turn yourself into a FLYING angry lawn sprinkler, and that's badass. (Also, best ability description ever)

 

Effigy should be slightly cheaper and have a Portable Effigy augment. And yes, an augment, because for once that's not a bandaid, but a complete functionality change.

 

Elemental Ward really needs nearly double its range. Spectral maybe flat out double. Effigy maybe a little more. For damage I wouldn't mind OP's changes.