[Kubrow] Chesa Breed Isn't That Useful.

[Cpt.Kibbles]

I really love the idea of a carrier kubrow, but in reality, how the chesa is now kinda...sucks. Warframe is all about momentum and flying all over the place. A kubrow that retreives one item at a time doesn't really work for that style of game.


I will say this though, my heart melts every time my Chesa brings back an energy orb or resource in it's mouth. It's just too damn cute

[F-Minus]

I'm also pretty disappointed at how this Chesa turned out, the Retrieve mod/skill is really completely useless, not only does he pick items one by one at the usual laggy intervals, he doesn't even bring them to you, but close to the spot you were standing when his AI kicked in to start picking up loot. 

 

One way to fix that is to make him only pick up loot as priority when you equip him with this mod, and ignore combat as much as possible, then he can stockpile the things in one spot, bringing them in one by one. Or you could just let them automatically be collected when he picks them up. 

 

So far it's really pretty useless; Neutralize is actually to an extent useful, but still the AI of Kubrows is not really up there, and so far SAHASA with Dig is the only Kubrow I find even remotely useful and actually use quite often. But as said, as an reliable offensive support they are just too dumb, and take way to long to take stuff down and for the AI to kick in that they need to do what they need to do. 

 

I think the whole Kubrow thing needs a real overhaul, make them smarther, path better, and be actually doing what they are supposed to do most of the time. Seriously what good is a retriever who brings you one item per 30 seconds and drops it out of your loot range or even 500m away, because you already moved. 

 

I bet that the Carrier brings in more loot in 5 minutes as this Kubrow in a whole day of playing. 

[(PSN)CaptainPaxo]

An idea I had was to make so the chesa would give you more of whatever it is that its collecting. For example instead of retrieving 1 orokin cell it would retrieve 2 or 3. This would give it a distinct advantage over the carrier and maybe help bring kubrows out of obscurity. Of course along with the AI improvements suggested in this post

[Jinryusai]

[EinheriarJudith]

Yeah, this kubrow might not be *quite* so bad if it had priorities like disarming heavy gunners over other enemies or picking up the loot you need in the moment like bringing you all the energy orbs when you are heavily draining energy, but it doesn't, and even if it did, that wouldn't be nearly as useful as carrier that just instantly sucks up everything in a massive radius around you, so this dog definitely needs an upgrade.

yes i vote change the disarm mod to Disarm Heavy Unit and while i dont mind the "picking up of one item at a time" what i dont like is that it drops it near me instead of bringing it directly to me you still have to walk over the items to collect it. i also would like to see Maul get some tweaks like detects enemy within range depending on rank because the kubrows need to seek out targets to attack and i feel they dont do that well.

[Lord_Qrainex]

i don't see why people argue about the Chesa Kubrow being too OP if it were like Carrier and just suck up things...

Carrier is by far the most used "companion" in Warframe and no one seems to say anything about nearly every other "companion" being irrelevant...

i don't see the problem of Chesa being slightly better than Carrier...

with sentinel you don't need to take care of it all the time, it can die twice and even if it completely dies it just comes back normally after the mission while the Kubrow suffers after effects if it completely dies...

the Carrier would still have its own advantages and disadvantages.

[(PSN)Mazda_07_]

wow that's how you get things done right there lol I love DE!

[Jinryusai]

[Wakeoflove]

Where exactly did they admit anything/stated they plan to improve it? Somewhere else on twitter or somewhere else on the forums or what?

[cobra302]

When is DE anticipating that the reworking / fixing of the Chesa Kubrow functionality will be finished? DE Steve mentioned it is intended to be comparable to carrier yet at the moment it is not. The solution seems rather straight forward that I feel most players would really appreciate.

 

- Copy/Paste code which causes the players warframe to have a small area drop pickup so that where the Kubrow traverses it also automatically picks up drops along its immediate area the same as the player. Have those pickups immediately put into the players inventory the same as if the player picked them up or if carrier picked them up. Similar to how Mirage clones function. Since other kubrows can somehow restore shields, make the player invisible, and are linked directly to the player's health, shields, and armor surely no one would consider linking pickups to be unreasonable.

 

- Delete the unnecessary and unreliable code (retrieve/fetch) which makes the Kubrow come back the the player and drop the items near them. Often times the location where the items are dropped are outside of the players pickup area. Additionally, when the player is moving, which is most of the time, the Kubrow is dropping the items behind you. Since you are moving away those items never get picked up.

 

- If it is insisted to keep the fetch coding, then at least prioritize the items retrieved or allow the player to instruct the Kubrow on what the priority is. At the moment, the Kubrow may ignore a rare mod or resource and instead bring credits or a common mod.

 

- Keep the container breaking function.

 

- Allow the Kubrow to pick up many more items along its route, quickly and efficiently, rather than just one item. The 17.0.4 patch notes indicate this change was made but it is either still broken or so minor that to the player it seems that the Kubrow only picks up one item

[WynterMute]

I have found the kooo-bro's far to annoying to manage so far myself. Even if you ignore the cost in credits to keep the dang things from disolving into goo, mine has always seemed to cause me far more hassle than he solved. Occasionally he will take down a guy i didnt notice behind a crate, but for the majority he tends to run off to other rooms and forces me to backtrack and revive him over and over. It is like....well I imagine it is like running a difficult mission with me =P

I do find it ironic however that I got lambasted as "lazy" when I made a post stating all sentinels should have vacuum innately so I dont get stuck using just the one (cause im lazy). 

 

I see no reason to abandon my minion for a doggy at this point. And think of all the money I save!

[xveganrox]

I still think they need to give Carrier a new ability and make vacuum a mod that fits on all sentinels and Kubrow. That would give everyone so many more options. Right now Carrier is pretty much the most efficient companion for all stages of play because farming is crucial and that probably isn't going to change any time soon. Vacuum is such a huge QOL improvement that it shouldn't be tied to any one load out.

Even if Chesas had vacuum it would just lock us into three choices instead of two. The problem isn't with Chesas being underpowered, it's with vacuum being a centralising element of the meta. Giving it to all companions would fix that. I WANT to use Kubrows and even Shade and Dethcube sometimes (sorry Wyrm and the rest). They're cool. I don't want to miss 30%+ of drops, and I don't want to hold my squad back because I'm running around collecting everything. Adding vacuum to everything is the only solution that would fix that for me, and I imagine a lot of other people are in the same situation.

Edited August 7, 2015 by xveganrox

[TitanEX]

Glad to see DE is taking another look at the Chesa it truly needs a rework/buff.

[VKhaun]

I've been watching the hotfix notes and tweets about it and I've put a forma on my own Chesa and taken it back to 30 again.

 

DE I am disappoint. :(

 

The fetch animations are adorable and I'll be keeping him on ice just in case this breed ever becomes Carrier-like, but what we've got now is just not the "Kubrow for Carrier people" that I was expecting when a loot Kubrow was announced. Carrier is currently 97% used among companions on my account and it's going to stay that way if fetch is as good as it gets. Even if you perfected the fetching with fetching multiple, fetching smart, fetching fast... It's not going to be enough. I'd still be paranoid and keeping one eye out making sure he grabbed important stuff before moving on, or picking stuff up myself to make sure I got it.

 

I suggest you have him do a Carrier style Vacuum at the moment he picks up one thing, instantly picking up everything else. That way he just brings you that one thing to keep the cute factor, but you still get reliable carrierlyness.

[IggySnow]

Personally I like the idea of having it automatically add the energy, health, and amo it runs on top of to your warframe.

 

NOT having a vacuum to it as that just seems silly. At least with the carrier it looks somewhat vacuumish.

 

Imo that would be great because as a kubrow it can go way further to pick up items (iv seen mine go 20-30 meters to pic up an item, compared to the carriers 12?) but It wouldn't just drag everything near you towards you like the carrier does. That would mean its not only different from the carrier, but also better than it which is justified by the upkeep cost and maintenance of kubrows.

 

And then because I love the adorable animation of it picking stuff up and dropping it near you, maybe it could pick up resources and mods and blueprints in its mouth as its running along collecting items and the number of those items it can carry in its mouth is increased by the mod rank, then when it reaches its maximum number of items just mentioned, it will stop going for items, bring those rarer items to you, and continue on again getting more items.

[----Fenrir----]

Currently it really is useless. I just does not pick up enough stuff to be a viable alternative to Carrier. It even fails and keeping you supplied with basic needs like energy and ammo.

 

Really there is no point whatsoever in using a Chesa Kubrow. Those who don't care and just want a loot collector will stick with Carrier and those that really want a Kubrow are much better off using a Sahasa Kubrow which is much more useful and can easily keep the player supplied with ammo and energy with his digging.

Edited August 8, 2015 by ----Fenrir----

[EinheriarJudith]

Currently it really is useless. I just does not pick up enough stuff to be a viable alternative to Carrier. It even fails and keeping you supplied with basic needs like energy and ammo.

 

Really there is no point whatsoever in using a Chesa Kubrow. Those who don't care and just want a loot collector will stick with Carrier and those that really want a Kubrow are much better off using a Sahasa Kubrow which is much more useful and can easily keep the player supplied with ammo and energy with his digging.

so much could have been done but instead so little was done. i was actually hoping i could get more into the kubrows with this new one but i find myself still sticking to sentinels. im not saying all the kubrows are bad there are just so many things that need improvement.

 

for being pretty much attack dogs they dont attack often and definitely not as much as sentinels. slight improvements like adding Detect ranges to Maul to match how sentinels seek out enemies. removing the ability mods and making them passive so they can lvl as the kubrow lvls(i believe this should also happen to sentinels) and for chesa the picking up mouth fulls doesnt bother me as much as it dropping it near me does. if it picks up items im expecting it to deliver it directly to me not near me if im moving around alot how is the kubrow supposed to keep up? it definitely does not deliver on that particular purpose. as for disarming they need to change it to specifically disarm heavy units i mean the sunika tackles VIP targets why not have the chesa only disarm heavy units.

[rawr1254]

The big problem with Chesa is that the pickup skill is active and not passive like what Ive seen with Carrier. The pickup ability should be on at all times and have a somewhat of a pull effect in a 5m radius around the kubrow so it can run around attacking while still picking stuff up and when said battle is over and no enemy is in a certain radius(15m?) it'll bring the items back to master.

 

I say pickup pull radius while it's running around because with the AI as it is my kubrow seems to be just porting/running around here and there without much control as to where.

 

Biggest problem compared the carrier is my kubrow will get stuck under stairs/bridges a lot.

[Wakeoflove]

I still think they need to give Carrier a new ability and make vacuum a mod that fits on all sentinels and Kubrow. That would give everyone so many more options. Right now Carrier is pretty much the most efficient companion for all stages of play because farming is crucial and that probably isn't going to change any time soon. Vacuum is such a huge QOL improvement that it shouldn't be tied to any one load out.

Even if Chesas had vacuum it would just lock us into three choices instead of two. The problem isn't with Chesas being underpowered, it's with vacuum being a centralising element of the meta. Giving it to all companions would fix that. I WANT to use Kubrows and even Shade and Dethcube sometimes (sorry Wyrm and the rest). They're cool. I don't want to miss 30%+ of drops, and I don't want to hold my squad back because I'm running around collecting everything. Adding vacuum to everything is the only solution that would fix that for me, and I imagine a lot of other people are in the same situation.

To that end, they should just make the vacuum effect a native loot collection function of the warframe or give us some sort of backpack/fannypack/whatever that vacuums up loot so that vacuum isn't even something to consider. If the devs are trying to get away from "non-options" then vacuum is kind of the "not really optional" if you don't want to suffer through looting by foot.

so much could have been done but instead so little was done. i was actually hoping i could get more into the kubrows with this new one but i find myself still sticking to sentinels. im not saying all the kubrows are bad there are just so many things that need improvement.

 

for being pretty much attack dogs they dont attack often and definitely not as much as sentinels. slight improvements like adding Detect ranges to Maul to match how sentinels seek out enemies. removing the ability mods and making them passive so they can lvl as the kubrow lvls(i believe this should also happen to sentinels) and for chesa the picking up mouth fulls doesnt bother me as much as it dropping it near me does. if it picks up items im expecting it to deliver it directly to me not near me if im moving around alot how is the kubrow supposed to keep up? it definitely does not deliver on that particular purpose. as for disarming they need to change it to specifically disarm heavy units i mean the sunika tackles VIP targets why not have the chesa only disarm heavy units.

That or they gave one dog nekros's terrify, they could have given this essentially loki's radial disarm, but yes, prioritizing heavy units would be a vast improvement.

[Wakeoflove]

The big problem with Chesa is that the pickup skill is active and not passive like what Ive seen with Carrier. The pickup ability should be on at all times and have a somewhat of a pull effect in a 5m radius around the kubrow so it can run around attacking while still picking stuff up and when said battle is over and no enemy is in a certain radius(15m?) it'll bring the items back to master.

 

I say pickup pull radius while it's running around because with the AI as it is my kubrow seems to be just porting/running around here and there without much control as to where.

 

Biggest problem compared the carrier is my kubrow will get stuck under stairs/bridges a lot.

Pathing problems are HUGE for kubrow, if you're up on top of any surface, a pillar, a box, whatever, they won't bring the loot to you. As to the adorable animation some people have brought up... I find I'm usually far too busy in combat to notice this fetching thing, and I think they could have gone even MORE adorable and futuristic, genetically engineered/cyborg dog by making it magnetize all the loot to it's fur and then it comes and shakes it all off near you, that'd be hilarious and adorable.... though still probably not that practical. Unless this was something it did over a huge range when next to master, i.e. when the kubrow comes within x meters of master, it howls and then essentially greedy pulls everything onto it over a large radius and then shakes it off onto the ground and goes about it's business. They could make it so at the end of this animation all the loot gets automatically placed in inventory even if it fell outside of the warframe's native collection radius to avert the annoyances having to then manually pick it up would cause, especially if it happened while you were already on the move and didn't notice.

 

Although that wouldn't counter the issues of pathing cause then the kubrow wouldn't do it at all when you're not near it... so perhaps it is guaranteed to do it when you are in a certain range of it or it does so much more frequently when you are near, but will periodically do it on its own say after so many seconds or immediately after looting a crate. So if within x meters of master it could loot every 15 seconds, outside of that range every 30? (examples, that might be far too infrequent to work.) and guaranteed loot pull after looting crates. Although I suppose it depends on how generous of a radius the devs gave it, that could be part of the trade off too, carrier is constantly looting within a smaller radius but the kubrow periodically loots a MASSIVE radius.

 

Or the kubrow could have a loot detection radius and when it detects x amount of loot in range, it aoe pulls and deposits into inventory, this might make it more reliable than if it were based on cool down timers.

 

They could also use this "magnetic kubrow" to justify giving this kubrow AOE disarm, it could work in a very small radius as pulling the weapon out of an enemy's hands would likely be more difficult than other loot, so it rushes into a group, pulls all the guns in a small area then proceeds to maul them.

[EinheriarJudith]

Pathing problems are HUGE for kubrow, if you're up on top of any surface, a pillar, a box, whatever, they won't bring the loot to you. As to the adorable animation some people have brought up... I find I'm usually far too busy in combat to notice this fetching thing, and I think they could have gone even MORE adorable and futuristic, genetically engineered/cyborg dog by making it magnetize all the loot to it's fur and then it comes and shakes it all off near you, that'd be hilarious and adorable.... though still probably not that practical. Unless this was something it did over a huge range when next to master, i.e. when the kubrow comes within x meters of master, it howls and then essentially greedy pulls everything onto it over a large radius and then shakes it off onto the ground and goes about it's business. They could make it so at the end of this animation all the loot gets automatically placed in inventory even if it fell outside of the warframe's native collection radius to avert the annoyances having to then manually pick it up would cause, especially if it happened while you were already on the move and didn't notice.

 

Although that wouldn't counter the issues of pathing cause then the kubrow wouldn't do it at all when you're not near it... so perhaps it is guaranteed to do it when you are in a certain range of it or it does so much more frequently when you are near, but will periodically do it on its own say after so many seconds or immediately after looting a crate. So if within x meters of master it could loot every 15 seconds, outside of that range every 30? (examples, that might be far too infrequent to work.) and guaranteed loot pull after looting crates. Although I suppose it depends on how generous of a radius the devs gave it, that could be part of the trade off too, carrier is constantly looting within a smaller radius but the kubrow periodically loots a MASSIVE radius.

 

Or the kubrow could have a loot detection radius and when it detects x amount of loot in range, it aoe pulls and deposits into inventory, this might make it more reliable than if it were based on cool down timers.

 

They could also use this "magnetic kubrow" to justify giving this kubrow AOE disarm, it could work in a very small radius as pulling the weapon out of an enemy's hands would likely be more difficult than other loot, so it rushes into a group, pulls all the guns in a small area then proceeds to maul them.

magnetic kubrow best thing ive ever heard. +1

[Sci_Ant]

magnetic kubrow best thing ive ever heard. +1

 

Seriously, if they gave it a chance to disarm enemies in a certain radius while it runs around collecting loot and allow it to do that independent of your position, it would be great!

Edited August 19, 2015 by Sci_Ant

[cobra302]

There is another thread about the Chesa kubrow which also has a lot of discussion and great ideas. It has over 10,000 views and appears to be the un-official main Chesa kubrow thread.

 

https://forums.warfr...-hype-destroyed