An Overly Honest Review By A Pro Gamer

[Devaldus]

Hello everyone. Before i answer the unnecessarily dramatic question i've presented above (mostly for click-bait and solely to make you fine gentlemen (and ladies) want to view what the topic was about), i'll start off by saying that i'm a very active Warframe player and also a huge fan of both the game and the community and by no means am i putting the game on blast or whining about it's current state.

What i want to talk about in this post are both the strong and weak points of Warframe as a game from my perspective: what i think makes the game awesome and what it lacks or needs/requires to become a truly great one that's gonna be up there competing with most popular games out there today in a very civil, but honest fashion.

Me being a person that has competed professionally on many occasions in different games (Starcraft, Starcraft 2, WoW, PoE), always ask myself only one basic question before i decide to try a game out or not, and that's: "What does this game offer me?" - and the answer is pretty simple most of the times. When i ask this about WFrame i can freely say that the game offers me hours upon hours of fun, grinding, experimenting and customizing different things to my liking (Which is certainly one of the stronger aspects of the game and what makes it stand out as a very unique experience for it's players), but unfortunately, that's where it ends. And i say it ends, because there's not much to do after you've gotten all the things you've been wanting to get.

 

The most re-occurring issue with Warframe is that it becomes very stagnant: things that are left to acquire become very marginal after you've acquired the base items you've wanted to get from the start and after that it's not appealing anymore to grind for hours and hours, just to get all our items to level 30, and for what? mastery ranks? as an active rpg/mmo player i found it very weird at first that a game such as this (that gives you a very wide array of things to do, so many options, a huge universe to explore, intriguing and memorable characters) would have a problem with keeping players consistently online for a longer amount of time than just a week or two after an update has launched, like many other mmo/rpg-ish games do with very simple and basic additions to their games.

The best example of this would be the situation in almost every clan in the game, which i'm sure most active players would have noticed by now: when people that have been offline for over 150-200+ days always come back online almost instantly once an update is dropped, meaning that they're not consistently playing the game, but they're always keeping one eye open and usually come back all the time for new and better stuff, but after a week or two (if they don't buy all the new things with left-over plat, in which case it'd be less than a day or two) they leave again, putting their warframes to sleep in the cryo chamber until the next big update hits.

So, if we can admit that the game can get extremely stagnant, grindy and boring without any challenge after reaching late game, we can finally stop pointing fingers at the issues and start focusing on what really matters, which is - how to change that and how could DE possibly make the game a better experience.

 

The principles on which most successful games are based on today is very simple, you need 4 key things to keep a player involved and interested without boring them:

1. Competitive Nature & Challenge

I can not even begin to say how important this is to have in an online game to make it at least 2-3 times better, more dramatic and enjoyable. Warframe lacks challenge not only in PvE or endgame maps, but also within the community. The only way a player could prove to me that their build is "better" or "superior" in a certain way is if we just maybe go through a T4 survival mission in a grueling and boring experience for both of us and see who lasts 1-2 waves more. Yes, that's all the challenge/competition you get in Warframe sadly: it's all about who can write the biggest number on top of something they just shot, hit or casted on.

Competition is the key to a successful game, it creates a whole new dimension where players are not just focused on creating builds designed to fit their taste or just to look cool, but are also putting emphasis on creating more hardcore builds that could potentially change the meta and are designed to be more effective than others, or just plain superior in certain aspects of the game.

 

Even though i am strictly a PvP-only player in every game, i can say that Warframe is one of those games that are better off having an emphasis on PvE, because it has so much potential to advance and bloom into something so much better and bigger: There are many ways i can elaborate on how you could possibly make PVE more competitive, while still being able to keep it fun and revolving around teamplay. Even the simplest addition of a mission/map/quest that puts 4 players in one ship against other 4 players in another ship playing survival, seeing who can last longer (with different defense points or hacking spots that could potentially make surviving harder for the enemy team) would create so much hype and interest around it, because it is competitive. People will start finding new ways of beating their opponents or staying alive. People will also start looking for good trustworthy parties they can play and win with.


2. Award & Sacrifice

The second most important thing to make the game better, in my humble opinion, is the addition of rewards through competitive missions. Make a competitive ladder, where people can register their 4v4 teams for example (which they can disband at any moment, so you don't permanently get bad win-loss ratio if you mess up, because that bothers a lot of players in mmo-s and tarnishes their characters they say) and just give them the opportunity to go on a potential winning streak or to become unbeaten. This way you'll have a clear indication that someone is climbing the top of the ladder and therefore you're allowing them, through this system to develop a certain sense of pride and confidence and they will always want to overthrow any other teams trying to take this spot away from them, forcing them to constantly adapt and improve their gameplay and to strategize better and just generally become better players both mechanically and tactically. Also, winning must give a sense of accomplishment-  it has to really matter. The best to do would be to make sure players not only get bonus points for winning, but to know that by winning they've saved themselves the trouble of losing even more of the points they had before.


3. A Sense Of Pride
 

Like i said in #2, Warframe would be at least ten times more amazing if players were given some kind of unique position they can acquire or just a feeling of uniqueness through how they play and the more difficult things they can play through. Currently, every player can get anything they want and most of the endgame players just have the same stuff, no one has that "shiny something" that everyone wants a piece of, but no one can have. If you add this kind of intrigue and drama it will surely get the community riled up and excited to acquire things that make them really stand out from the mass, allowing DE to capitalize on this and get players wanting to defend their positions of pride, that meaning they'll have to be online a lot more often and consistently struggling to keep that position.

 

4. Make It Matter
 

Every team that ends a season on top of the ladder (let's say from 1 big update until the next one), gets some kind of special prize, or even just platinum points for competing well, whatever! as long as you make it matter DE. As long as it'll be something players would be willing to log on consistently and just compete for and play their hearts out and strive to improve their teamplay for! make it matter! I truly believe that Warframe could explode and be one of those "big" games because it has every single resource required to be a completely thrilling and immersive experience for players, not to mention that it looks cool while streamed and provides a huge universe with so many options and potentially awesome things you can do with it.


So, in conclusion my friends: NO, Warframe certainly doesn't suck. It's a great game and the only downside it has is that it just has too much potential to become an amazing game for it to stay in it's current state and not to become one. 
I apologize for the extensive post and also a few English mistakes i might've made writing it down (which i'm sure i would've), i hope to hear your opinions about my opinions or what you guys think would make Warframe even better as a game for you.

Thank you DE & community.
Dev

[HunterHog]

'Pro Gamer' 'Overly honest'

 

Fair as criticism is, that sounds kinda full of yourself, no offense :x

Edited August 17, 2015 by HunterHog

[--MZez--]

i wish everyday was a wensday for hotfixes. Further the game is nice. Enjoying the grind peace

[Murasume]

should have left that "Pro Gamer" title out of there~

Also if would have been nice to have TLDR part too~

I do agree on some of the parts of your argument~

I'm sure many of us have said the same thing you have~

and we all hope that it flies but we have to wait patiently~

Cheers mate and Happy Hunting!~

 

[(PSN)shmittem]

For anyone disagreeing to this is blind or a noob. It is a awesome game but gets really boring and repetitive such as the enemy Ai is so predictable, no real challenge besides repetitive gameplay etc more but I don't write it down as I play this awesome game which I'm actually getting tired of

[-Vane-]

As much as i like this opinion. The "Pro Gamer" term. It's just painful. I won't say that i suck at Warframe. No, i am good at it, no doubt you are good too, but when one refers to himself as a "Pro" he loses respect in my eyes. Just my opinion.

[Devaldus]

I am not referring to myself as "Pro", only the fact that i've competed professionally and have a general idea of what attracts people to play games and makes them want to compete.

I apologize if it seems like i'm boasting, that was certainly not my intention...

[wtrmlnjuc]

2 things:

 

1. Unless you're being paid to play any game at a competitive level, you're not a "pro" gamer.

2. A less baity title would make this seem much less arrogant at first glance.

[-Vane-]

I am not referring to myself as "Pro", only the fact that i've competed professionally and have a general idea of what attracts people to play games and makes them want to compete.

I apologize if it seems like i'm boasting, that was certainly not my intention...

That is certainly allright but the essential term, the "pro gamer" encourages further dividing of the player base and is not very liked.

[Devaldus]

2 things:

 

1. Unless you're being paid to play any game at a competitive level, you're not a "pro" gamer.

2. A less baity title would make this seem much less arrogant at first glance.

I understand your concern. Yes i was paid, but please ignore my unintentional arrogance and if it makes it any better, i'd love to hear your take on this subject :)

[SilentMobius]

All my no... All of it.

Realise this one simple thing.

_You_ like inter-player conflict, pride, league tables, stack ranking, and judging yourself by comparing yourself to others.

But, that is _far_ from a universal desire. I'd go so far as to say that there are plenty of people who think that your attitude is unhealthy and want nothing to do with it or you.

Realise that, let it sink in, as much as the things you say seem obvious and right to you. There are others who view you as the opposite of what they want in a game. Who want to leave behind forced tribalism, side-taking, judging your stuff not by how happy you are but by how much to can take from others or simply how little others have compared to you.

So no, nothing you say there is needed, wanted or a problem. For me, you are the problem.

Edited August 17, 2015 by SilentMobius

[Firetempest]

Almost lost me at the title. Yeah, its a game of shoot stuff. wait for update, shoot stuff.

Yet all these suggestions is just a passive pvp.

Lets turn the community against itself even more.

 

We do just fine doing that with MR that does nothing.

[-Vane-]

All my no... All of it.

Realise this one simple thing.

_You_ like inter-player conflict, pride, league tables, stack ranking, and judging yourself by comparing yourself to others.

But, that is _far_ from a universal desire. I'd go so far as to say that there are plenty of people who think that your attitude is unhealthy and want nothing to do with it or you.

Realise that, let it sink in, as much as the things you say seem obvious and right to you. There are others who view you as the opposite of what they want in a game. Who want to leave behind forced tribalism, side-taking, judging your stuff not by how happy you are but by how much to can take from others or simply how little others have compared to you.

So no, nothing you say there is needed, wanted or a problem. For me, you are the problem.

After reading this, my opinion greatly changed. Are you suggesting that we should have no superiority achievments? The more i think about it, the more repulsive it is. Edited August 17, 2015 by NyancraftG

[Hellfire616]

i wish everyday was a wensday for hotfixes. Further the game is nice. Enjoying the grind peace

 

why is everyone refering to the updates on wednesday as "hotfixes" hotfixes dont have a set date, they are launched when needed, the weekly updates are .. well.. updates 

 

Also OP has some good points, although 2.-4. sounds to much pvp-like and i play this game out of co-op reasons.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Hellfire616

[SilentMobius]

After reading this, my opinion greatly changed. Are you suggesting that we should have no superiority achievments? The more i thonk about it, the more repulsive it is.

No comparisons, no vs. Nothing.

Tenno cooperating against the forces arrayed against them, not wasting time bashing their skulls together like idiots.

There is a whole virtual world constructed for us to pit ourselves against, the last thing we need is to encourage more inter-player conflict. It destroys games.

You don't like that? Well there are a massive array of games that cater to your desire to set up a pecking order and waste others game time. Use them.

Edited August 17, 2015 by SilentMobius

[--MZez--]

why is everyone refering to the updates on wednesday as "hotfixes" hotfixes dont have a set date, they are launched when needed, the weekly updates are .. well.. updates 

 

Also OP has some good points, although 2.-4. sounds to much pvp-like and i play this game out of co-op reasons.

well. Most of the time its wensday if u see the history of updates . . . And if it is not there is a big chance. And how more fixes how better for everyone and the game.

[Sitchrea]

The OP makes great suggestions to the PvP element of the game, but I must ask what the OP might suggest for PvE longevity? DE already has some massive PvE additions designed for game longevity, I wonder how the Community will like them.

[(PSN)iProdigy99]

As many others have said when someone says they are a Pro-gamer they trigger a fire in me that makes me want to give you some choice words on that title. I would have skipped your ideas but a certain comment made me go back and read them (honestly so I could start an argument with them) but I did and after reading, your Ideas are interesting and this could potentially bring a whole new level to warframe and would stress on the term "Good Teams" this could/would open up warframe pairing possibilities that many people wouldn't have seen due to just using frames that rely mostly on "efficiency" (doing something as fast or with little effort) throughout a mission.

[gell]

Ignoring the "pro gamer" distraction, he's right, generally. Not about needing titles and being better than everyone with some sort of trophy, but about the game getting stale fast, and DE not quite having the components to keep it going. I know someone who just started 2 weeks ago and has multiple things at level 30, forma'd multiple times over, and almost all the rare mods. He doesn't really want much else since what he got fit his play style. Soon the game will be dead for him. Then what? Funny thing is that in the time he started and got all that stuff, there has been no tactical alerts, and of course, no solar rails. He joined my clan, so he had access to my dojo and research, which saved him a lot of time I guess.

 

The most difficult thing for DE to do is create more content. It takes time and no matter what, players will finish that content faster than DE can make it. It's a staple problem of MMOs, when they have a big update. And they also tend to have decent solutions.

 

Commonly, it's referred to as "end game" and DE is aware of this. There are a few things in the game that are considered "end game." Also OP, you are probably aware of the solar rails conflicts, which DE made an armistice while focusing on conclave stuff. Those did give clans not only recognition, but also a little control over a part of the game. It's just been frozen while DE works on PvP.

 

Their events are also missing for the past couple months. The competitive stuff rubbed most here the wrong way though, and I'm talking about the PvE. Players didn't like grinding to beat other clans; they just wanted to do the work and get the stuff. Earlier events were more heavily trying to outdo other clans and that was met with unhappy players.

 

I think DE should try to expand the solar rails to include some of the rebalanced pvp (which still needs rebalancing :P), and that competition will allow not only clans to shine, but also individuals who contributed more, or had the best kills, or clutch plays. As long as it doesn't devolve into grind fests, players will welcome it. For people only into PvE, the competition can be with the bots; e.g. the Grineer can remember things you did and recall them more, like an advanced version of the syndicates or stalker coming after you. It's a more acceptable way of scaling the game to you to always give you some bit of challenge or surprise. Easier said than done, but since we can't just have PvP and waving our schlongs to see who is better, it has to go back to why this game is fun in the first place: beating up bots with our overpowered frames and weapons, and feeling like super space ninjas in the face of 1000s of enemies. As long as the game plays up that side of it, players will come back. But if the game just has you repeat the same content over and over, players will leave.

Edited August 17, 2015 by gell

[Syntax3Error]

 

 

I am not referring to myself as "Pro", only the fact that i've competed professionally and have a general idea of what attracts people to play games and makes them want to compete.

I apologize if it seems like i'm boasting, that was certainly not my intention...

 

Competed in what games? warframe isn't an e-sports/competitive game. well, there is a pvp. but the pve aspect in this game is way more better and developed than the pvp aspect. i don't want to sound rude, but even if you won 3 counter-strike world championships it still wouldn't matter.

Edited August 17, 2015 by EranTerran

[Devaldus]

Ignoring the "pro gamer" distraction, he's right, generally. Not about needing titles and being better than everyone with some sort of trophy, but about the game getting stale fast, and DE not quite having the components to keep it going. I know someone who just started 2 weeks ago and has multiple things at level 30, forma'd multiple times over, and almost all the rare mods. He doesn't really want much else since what he got fit his play style. Soon the game will be dead for him. Then what? Funny thing is that in the time he started and got all that stuff, there has been no tactical alerts, and of course, no solar rails. He joined my clan, so he had access to my dojo and research, which saved him a lot of time I guess.

 

The most difficult thing for DE to do is create more content. It takes time and no matter what, players will finish that content faster than DE can make it. It's a staple problem of MMOs, when they have a big update. And they also tend to have decent solutions.

 

Commonly, it's referred to as "end game" and DE is aware of this. There are a few things in the game that are considered "end game." Also OP, you are probably aware of the solar rails conflicts, which DE made an armistice while focusing on conclave stuff. Those did give clans not only recognition, but also a little control over a part of the game. It's just been frozen while DE works on PvP.

 

Their events are also missing for the past couple months. The competitive stuff rubbed most here the wrong way though, and I'm talking about the PvE. Players didn't like grinding to beat other clans; they just wanted to do the work and get the stuff. Earlier events were more heavily trying to outdo other clans and that was met with unhappy players.

 

I think DE should try to expand the solar rails to include some of the rebalanced pvp (which still needs rebalancing :P), and that competition will allow not only clans to shine, but also individuals who contributed more, or had the best kills, or clutch plays. As long as it doesn't devolve into grind fests, players will welcome it. For people only into PvE, the competition can be with the bots; e.g. the Grineer can remember things you did and recall them more, like an advanced version of the syndicates or stalker coming after you. It's a more acceptable way of scaling the game to you to always give you some bit of challenge or surprise. Easier said than done, but since we can't just have PvP and waving our schlongs to see who is better, it has to go back to why this game is fun in the first place: beating up bots with our overpowered frames and weapons, and feeling like super space ninjas in the face of 1000s of enemies. As long as the game plays up that side of it, players will come back. But if the game just has you repeat the same content over and over, players will leave.

I agree. The only way to have a self-sustain endgame that doesn't become stagnant in a few weeks after release, is to have a part of it be controlled by players. If you are able to raise the skill bar and standards infinitely then there will always be constant interest from the community to top whatever you put against them. 

Having this kind of luxury though would require either a very complicated & adaptive AI and very hard missions or player-made content vs player-made content (not necessarily direct PvP) to sustain itself between updates.

[jfhsanseiIII]

One problem I have with these kinds of expectations is the need to be special. Not everyone has gotten to where they want, want hey need, grinder out MR 19. A great number of people are lazily leveling their gear, playing endless t4 survival with the same gear, just getting started, and so on. The number of High MR players who've grinded out all the gear is relatively small when compared to everyone else. DE needs to cater to the needs of as many people as possible. Me personally, I'm MR 20, have almost every item available, all the cosmetics, and alt/arcane helms. I still good off endlessly with builds, and when I get bored I do something else. DE cannot confirm to my every whim and they shouldn't, because I am a very small portion of the community.

[Lost_Cartographer]

After reading this, my opinion greatly changed. Are you suggesting that we should have no superiority achievments? The more i think about it, the more repulsive it is.

See my avatar.

 

Now see a certain topic that falls into the "another day, another thread" category.  My superiority achievment renders others livid that I have what they can't, and those that have what I have hostile towards those that don't for having even dared to mention it.  This also falls under #3 for the OP.  A sense of pride is one thing.  Warframe already has plenty of exclusivity problems.  Pride comes from building up something you've put effort into, not from having something others don't.  The community turns on these people in an instant.  If your reason for playing is to prove you're the best, you're playing the wrong game.

 

Warframe is Diablo in the third person setting.  Mods = gear.  Weapons are just varying forms of primary attack.

 

OP is way off base: some form of competition isn't really healthy for a game, any more than RNG is.  In the end, they're both gimmicks to keep players into pushing forward when they long since would have quit logging in if you took away all the material reasons (new gear, mods, etc) to do so.

 

The real problem to longevity in a game is stagnation and streamlining.  I'm not talking developer streamlining of a game, I mean players breaking a process down to a science, to the point where they can mind numbingly play the game and succeed because they broke down "playing" to the simplest, laziest form they could manage with all the mechanics the developers handed to them.  The over indulgence in power mods and "press #4 to win" is this to a T.  Stagnation is more a developer thing, though players tend to consume content 1000x faster than any developer can actually dish it out.  However, until players streamline the process to perfection, stagnation isn't an immediate issue.

 

Warframe has been streamlined by the players to the point where the only reason the majority of them log in is to get the next prime weapon/frame or mastery rank.  Pretty confident in that being more fact than opinion, and that sickens me.  RNG won't go away as long as people keep complaining about it.  Ironic, eh?

[Devaldus]

Competed in what games? warframe isn't an e-sports/competitive game. well, there is a pvp. but the pve aspect in this game is way more better and developed than the pvp aspect. i don't want to sound rude, but even if you won 3 counter-strike world championships it still wouldn't matter.

It's all clearly stated in the post.

I'm beyond confident that no one can be "pro" in Warframe, nor do i have any ambition to reach "pro"-ness (is that even a term?) in it. WF's a game that focuses mainly on PvE and i both realize and encourage that fact.

[-Vane-]

No comparisons, no vs. Nothing.

Tenno cooperating against the forces arrayed against them, not wasting time bashing their skulls together like idiots.

There is a whole virtual world constructed for us to pit ourselves against, the last thing we need is to encourage more inter-player conflict. It destroys games.

You don't like that? Well there are a massive array of games that cater to your desire to set up a pecking order and waste others game time. Use them.

I was refering to your post. Not the OP. Read carefully.