We Need A Fourth Starter Frame

[CataReverb]

I can't really say that I disagree with you here. I just find that the starting lineup should definitely have at least one female support oriented frame and her shield polarize fits the bill in my opinion. I don't see an issue with her being on the roster but if there were someone (preferably female) who's more well suited for her role I'd be willing to concede to it.

There would be Oberon, but you'd have to switch out volt for him... although Mag could probably stand a straight rework more than most that get all the attention, just because the most vocal thing said about Mag is regarding greedy pull....... still.......

[Heidrek]

Ash. I think he's perfect, newer players don't understand the basics of warframe and ash's offensive skills and survivability will help. Also he's a REAL ninja, which is a role newer players might like. Also banshee is a bit too squishy for most starting players, they'll die way too often. Also many newer players don't have the mods to make banshee shine. Ash you could stick on continuity, armor and health mods, all of which are super easy to find.

[HyokaChan]

Should we change the lineup to Frost/Ember/Saryn/Volt?

[Flibbertigibbety]

I like the idea of 4 frames for 4 players that are just starting off together and each want something different from eachother. I like the idea of having a group that has a variety of utility. Volt's shield is wonderfully defensive, Excal has great DPS and CC, Mag has some good CC and group shield healing (though it needs a major buff at low lvls), and it would be nice to have someone that's a different sort of utility. I think a stealth class (loki) or control class (Nyx) would be a great addition to really fill out the group dynamic.

 

I'd like to see a better healer in a starting group, but I doubt we'd see Oberon or Trinity as a starting class. Chroma has some healing abilities (fire elemental ward technically heals), but I think he's a bit too advanced for newbies.

[MagPrime]

I like the idea of 4 frames for 4 players that are just starting off together and each want something different from eachother. I like the idea of having a group that has a variety of utility. Volt's shield is wonderfully defensive, Excal has great DPS and CC, Mag has some good CC and group shield healing (though it needs a major buff at low lvls), and it would be nice to have someone that's a different sort of utility. I think a stealth class (loki) or control class (Nyx) would be a great addition to really fill out the group dynamic.

 

I'd like to see a better healer in a starting group, but I doubt we'd see Oberon or Trinity as a starting class. Chroma has some healing abilities (fire elemental ward technically heals), but I think he's a bit too advanced for newbies.

I can get behind having Oberon in the starting lineup, the only issue would then be; who does he replace?  (OP's suggestion was to have a 2:2 for the starters, 2 male 2 female.)  Excal is an awesome starter, personally.  If Mag wasn't one of the options, he would have been my pick.  Volt is a good support 'frame but higher rank stuff, eh...  But that's probably more personal bias than anything else.

 

As far as Loki being put back into the starter selection, I don't think that'd be a good idea.  He doesn't have any kind of damage dealing abilities and with Vor's Prize, he'd need that.  Nyx isn't complex but she isn't easy either and I don't think she'd give a positive starting experience.

[Flibbertigibbety]

Keep mag... and Banshee... Just so you can push and pull enemies all over the place. Hilarious.

[Drazhya]

I like the idea of Ash and Oberon as starter frames. An invisible ninja-type seems like something a lot of new players may be looking for, so having a spot for it would be good. For Oberon, a healer would be great for the starter lineup, I think.

Volt is a good starter, but if you want 2:2, then he can be replaced with Nyx, or maybe Banshee.

[Kestral9999]

Keep mag... and Banshee... Just so you can push and pull enemies all over the place. Hilarious.

I'm not going to pretend like that thought hasn't crossed my mind and caused me to snicker.

[Kestral9999]

I'm beginning to think I should revise this thread's directive into a "Starting Lineup Rework" type of thing.

 

1) Excalibur is a must due to the fact that he's DE's posterboy, and definitely serves as the tank within the group now that he's received an armor buff. Due to the fact that he's clearly more tanky than many other frames, I see no reason to consider Rhino in the lineup.

 

2) A lot of players seem to dislike Mag as the starting support role. While I disagree, I can see the validity in their complaints. Her slot as the support female frame is potentially available. The only issue is that other support oriented female frames is that their first abilities are not damage oriented (Trinity, Equinox, Nyx, etc.)

 

3) Volt is well balanced but seems kind of out of place as a starter, to me and several others. Maybe the inclusion of another elemental frame (Ember?) would make him fit in a bit better? If not, Ash and Oberon would definitely fit here.

 

4) I'd like to keep the gender ratio a 2:2 if at all possible. Banshee, Nyx (if her 1 gets reworked), Ember, and Saryn are all decent contenders for the fourth slot.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Kestral9999

[Exmix]

I do actually agree to this but I can't think of which frame would be best suited for it since I can see and positive and a negative to each frame being in there,

[CataReverb]

All frames getting reworks eventually, I think I remember hearing on a Prime Time that Volt is within their next next 5 or so, and Saryn might work bettter when she gets her rework...

Edited September 9, 2015 by Arkinvas

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

I think Oberon would be a great starter frame. He's well rounded and can heal himself and his allies, which is very good for new players.

[CataReverb]

I think Oberon would be a great starter frame. He's well rounded and can heal himself and his allies, which is very good for new players.

Would work better if Oberon moved to a set boss, as his current drop from eximuses doesn't have an equivalent, other than Ash

[Kestral9999]

Would work better if Oberon moved to a set boss, as his current drop from eximuses doesn't have an equivalent, other than Ash

Not to mention that both Oberon and Ash would make decent starter replacements.

[MagPrime]

Not to mention that both Oberon and Ash would make decent starter replacements.

I wonder if there was some way e could mock up the suggested 'frames as starters.

 

Maybe make new accounts and have them taxi'd to the needed boss to get the parts (staying out of xp range but still moving to avoid AFK timer)  Or even have someone gift the Warframes to the new accounts and play through the starchart?

 

Can you gift a Warframe?

[Kestral9999]

I wonder if there was some way e could mock up the suggested 'frames as starters.

 

Maybe make new accounts and have them taxi'd to the needed boss to get the parts (staying out of xp range but still moving to avoid AFK timer)  Or even have someone gift the Warframes to the new accounts and play through the starchart?

 

Can you gift a Warframe?

You sure can. I gifted my friend a Mesa when she was released because he really wanted her, didn't have any plat, and was getting incredibly frustrated trying to find groups to farm Infested Salad for more than one run.

 

On the other hand you can always just use the broken mods you get from the starting quest after selling and rebuilding one of the frames. Though I'd have issues doing that since I've forma'd most of my frames at least once or twice and they all have potatoes. I'd probably use one of my alt accounts on PC to test this, personally.

[MagPrime]

You sure can. I gifted my friend a Mesa when she was released because he really wanted her, didn't have any plat, and was getting incredibly frustrated trying to find groups to farm Infested Salad for more than one run.

 

On the other hand you can always just use the broken mods you get from the starting quest after selling and rebuilding one of the frames. Though I'd have issues doing that since I've forma'd most of my frames at least once or twice and they all have potatoes. I'd probably use one of my alt accounts on PC to test this, personally.

True, you can just use the newb stuff you earned but that doesn't really give a good new player experience, personally, and it doesn't do much to show case the pros and cons of 'frames in the kind of situations a new player faces.

[Ada_Wong_SG]

Mesa as starter frame

It might make beginner's life easier, since there is an ultimate skill for those who cant aim.

but not in the fanciful range of killing anything over a wall at a press of a button. 

Decently powered.

[Martin_Moriarty]

The problem I've seen throughout much of this thread is that we are assessing warframes for new starters from the way we'd use them, rather than attempting to look at them from a new player's perspective (well, apart from that one individual who pointed out that new player's would use mag's shield polarize as a shield heal rather than an anti-corpus nuke).

 

I myself was guilty of this when considering a number of frames.

 

Frost for example is a frame who I think of when I hear the word "defense", and not really at any other time. A new player starting with frost, on the other hand, would have a warframe with decent damage, cc, as well as cover wherever they needed it through snowglobe. Frost would also fill the spot of "tanky starter frame".

 

Saryn would probably also make for a decent starter frame. Venom brings decent group clearing, especially during that time where their weapons, quite frankly, suck. Her molt would allow for an aggro switch, in addition to having an off tank of sorts. I honestly don't know how much use contagion as back when I first got Saryn (she was my third or fourth frame), I didn't really use it much as the melee system back then quite frankly sucked. Miasma between its short range, high energy cost, and the part where it does its damage over four seconds, would probably cause newer players to refrain from using it to much early on.

 

Rhino, if I'm to be perfectly honest, is not a warframe I would want as a starter frame. I feel that too much of our population is already far to reliant on iron skin. If Rhino were to be added as a starter frame new players would be getting that ability less than a half hour in (iron skin is unlocked at level 3).

 

Mag isn't a warframe I want to see removed from the starters. I will warn you, however, that I'm likely quite biased on that front as she was my personal starter. Her pull brings reasonably strong aoe damage making her great for the early defence missions that newer players' weapons won't quite be up to getting them through. Furthermore, her bullet attractor is of great help when dealing with grineer heavies, or bullet sponge bosses (I and my friends relied heavily on bullet attractor for killing Sargas Ruk way back when). Though, admittedly, her shield polarize probably won't see much use early on (or it might, as a shield healer which may very well get squads through stuff they wouldn't be able to otherwise).

 

Banshee is a warframe I'm on the fence about. For experienced players, her kit would make getting through that period where we don't really have any mods bearable. She is a rather unique warframe in that we'd probably use all of her abilities because they were useful, not just to screw around. The problem new players may have with her (apart from not really understanding how to take full advantage of her wonderful kit), is that they might find her abilities lackluster when compared with what their friend's warframes can do. For example: they may try to use sonic boom as a damaging ability, which, while it does technically have damage on it, sneezing in a grineer butcher's face is likely to do more damage than sonic boom (sonic boom does 25 damage unranked, and 50 at max rank - compared to mag's pull which is 100 unranked, and 300 at max rank). 

 

Ash would probably make an excellent addition to the starter frame line-up. Beyond him being the ninja warframe, his abilities are reasonably well rounded for a new player. He has strong single target damage through his shuriken (while its damage when unranked is the same as pull at 100, it goes up to 500 when maxed, in addition to having the guaranteed bleed proc). His smokescreen has a dual function, it's both an escape through its invisibility, as well as a minor cc as it staggers enemies with 10m when cast. He also has decent mobility through his teleport (which also staggers enemies, should you choose to cast it on them), not to mention his "press 4 for a cutscene that kills everything".

 

It is unlikely that Zephyr would make a particularly good starting warframe. Her first two abilities,while fun, aren't particularly effective for killing enemies (before I get attacked by a dozen people who talk about how awesome her abilities are at killing things, I'm coming at this from a) there are better options for new players and b) new players are unlikely to have the experience, or mods necessary to pull that off). There have also been people suggesting adding her to have a tanky starting frame. While Zephyr certain has phenomenal health and shield pools, she suffers from having the lowest armour in the game (tied with Trinity, Banshee, Volt, and Nyx), which results in her having rather low effective hp comparatively speaking. Finally, her floaty feeling is likely to get on new players nerves (yes, there'll be some who like it, but probably not as many as that don't), especially considering they're not likely to know that they can slam attack to get to ground quickly without expending energy.

 

Volt actually seems to be a half-way decent starting frame. His shock gives him a reasonable crowd clearer that dual-functions as a stun through its guaranteed electricity proc. His electric shield provides cover in addition to an increase in damage when he shoots through it, helping to offset the weakness of relatively unmodded weapons. His ult is rather lackluster however, due to its innately low damage, the fact that Volt is stuck in place for its duration, and its reliance on electronic devices for any real damage, which it promptly destroys, preventing effective re-casts.

 

Ember is likely our best option for adding as a fourth starting frame. She brings a rather straight-forward, mid-high damage kit that also has cc. Furthermore, as her kit is heat damage, she does normal, or increased damage to everything but prot-shield, something you only see on corpus bosses, and a few corpus elite troops (corpus techs, sniper crewmen, nullifiers, corpus capture targets, and corpus wardens).

 

I tried quite hard to find an issue with Nyx, as I feel there should be a reason against her being a starter, but, failing to do so, she probably wouldn't make a half bad one. Nyx' stats and skillset definitely aids in teaching the importance of cc. It also helps in identifying which enemies pose the greatest threat as you attempt to decide which enemy is the best to mind control. Did I mention that there's something that's just plain fun about turning your enemies against each other?

 

I think partway I changed over from "how would a new player use this warframe" to "which ones demonstrate attributes best suited to helping a new player through early game".

 

Either way, that's my two cents.

[CataReverb]

Not to mention that both Oberon and Ash would make decent starter replacements.

Hmm, when can manics show up?  I think as early as earth?  I know you can get eximuses on Venus, (or Mercury if you go long enough in an endless...)

 

At any rate, one problem that I didn't think about when talking about Mag, and Rhino, which also pertains to Oberon and Ash is the resources needed to make a frame.  Vor can drop Orokin Cells, Tower 1 can provide control modules if a starting player thinks to look there.  Of these four "early craftable" frames, you'll still need to go pretty far in the game to get the resources.

A tally of it all:

Oberon: Gallium (Mars, still kinda early)

Mag, Ash, Rhino: Salvage (Mars/Jupiter,) Neural Sensors (Jupiter,) Plastids (Saturn)

 

So actually, the first craftable frame is Oberon, not Rhino.  "Early" craftable would have to include not only those four but Valkyr and Ember, as you can get all five of those at the same amount of progression.  

 

I know starchart 3.0 is coming out soonTM, and I hope that along with it comes a few more changes that alter this frame availability dynamic, so you get your choice of four at the start (Excalibur, Volt, Saryn, and either Banshee, Zephyr, or Nyx) and have four more early craftable fully available in the early game area (by mars completion.)

 

I had a concept for altering the way defense worked that would fix this, but I'm too distracted to dig it up at the moment...

[Kestral9999]

-snipped to conserve space-

Hm, good feedback and much appreciated perspective. Thanks for replying.

 

 

-snipped to conserve space-

I'm beginning to feel like it's a bit premature to count hardly anyone out of the roster due to the fact that every frame in this game is subject to drastic change that might make them more viable and accessible from the early phases of the game.

[Flibbertigibbety]

I think Ember is a good starter frame. Volt provides group defense that no other warframe can provide, Mag is good CC and has healing capabilities, Excal is great CC and close combat DPS. Ember would be good ranged DPS and area DPS.

[Dobermann92]

I think Banshee would be perfect for the starter frame. Easy and fun to use.

[traybong111]

I agree both Banshee and Nyx would make great starter frames. While I agree Ember would make a great starter frame too, she's already unlocked fairly early in Saturn so I think frames that the player has to wait a bit longer if not chosen via starter (Banshee through research, Nyx through Phorid) would be more fitting. If I absolutely had to choose one I'd say Nyx because all of her abilities are very intuitive--I feel Banshee requires more experience in a (relatively organized) squad from the player in order to really appreciate her amazing support capabilities. 

[Annoying_killah]

I think the 4th should be either Rhino or Ember.