So I Got Tired Of Mesa Complaints

[Tesseract7777]

DE is a Canadian company and the First Amendment only applies to the U.S.

If the mods feel that cracking down on freedom of speech in order to preserve the quality of the forums is necessary then so be it, they arent obligated to follow a rule that applies in one country (or select few whichever it is).

A thread may be a serious comment but if its bashing anyone in particular then it gets locked so a flame war doesnt start. Thats good moderation to me

 

Also I'd add that even in the United States, freedom of speech doesn't apply on the internet. This would be considered a private forum and they have the right to enforce whatever rules they see fit. 

 

There is no guarantee of a right to speak on someone else's message board. They can censor however much they want. 

[Deejudanne]

Mesa is fairly useless in tower 4 survival after 40 minutes >_< when the ancients starts to get about 800.000 hp

[RazrOutlaw]

Everything powerful needs a nerf. And everything weak needs a buff. Because that's active game management right?

Think about game design and mechanics for abit and think of which game is the epitome of good game balance. I can off the top of my head think of tic tac toe and a way more complex version of tic tac toe possibly being Starcraft from 12 years ago. Between the Zerg Terran and Protoss there was no clear favorite in competitions because the devs made sure to nerf/buff units build times till it became a preference based thing.

That is 3 factions of maybe 15 unique units that you need to balance. How about warframe? Do you want every frame to be essentially a box with the only difference being the rifle? Then one day all rifles must deal the same eDps because that is fair.

Let me go on a limb and say that fair is boring and that DE should keep on nerfing coz hey that's what I only see them do

Again, peacemaker isn't that powerful at all, It's meant to be a DPS ability, it can kill everything to a certain amount of level (which I think personally all the dps frames should have a skill that does the same), now, when you get to high level, you'll realize that mesa is only killing the trash mobs, and hardly doing it, so there's the balance, the ability is doing what it's suppossed to do (not to mention that if you don't build for full 175% efficiency the drain is too high on it), If they nerf peacemaker mesa will end up being another solo frame or a tank, and not the variable frame that we have now. People just need to know there are other frame's that can out dps mesa in any mission when you reached certain lvl (or at any level *coughs* Saryn *coughs*), my ash can deal with level 500 mobs as long as there are 4 Corrosive proyections in the group, all this while being invisible for 20 seconds cause I have 2 maxed arcane trickery's on him, but people seem to think this is balanced, or the ability to take the weapon out of every enemy ignoring their level like loki does, the hate for mesa has become a thing ever since she was assigned as the DRACO frame, the solution is to balance those camping interception missions (draco, stephano, etc) not to nerf everything "good" we have. 

Mesa is fairly useless in tower 4 survival after 40 minutes >_< when the ancients starts to get about 800.000 hp

Useless if you build for peacemaker only, I can guarantee that a duration mesa with a little bit of range can stand her ground 1hr solo of T4 survival, last time I went with my friends I ended up being the one with most revives, with just a bit of strength, you can tank everything and if you and your teammates are close to each other enemies will have their guns jammed almost all the time, I'm not saying you aren't better off with a disarm loki, I'm just pointing out she is useful in some way.

Ballistic battery is op when taking on high priority targets,she is a great tanky frame with shatter shield and you'll love shooting gallery if you solo a lot, the room clear of peacemaker is nice too. personally I think mesa if able to solo any tipe of missions except Hijack (unless you have lots of shield restores).

[(XBOX)G R A V O C]

I'm confused as to how this video somehow justifies Peacemaker.

omg are you stupid? This isn't a post about justifying Peacemaker.

This is a post to showcase what Mesa can do WITHOUT Peacemaker.

[Tesseract7777]

I still believe there are two sides to this that need to be taken into account:

 

1) I think the people saying that any skill that slaps the controls out of your hands needs to be changed, and should be, are correct. This also goes for Bladestorm, Miasma, etc. Saryn is being reworked so Miasma probably will be changed before long. And I'm sure they will get to Ash/Banshee eventually. I think Peacemaker does need some change that requires more input from the user, so it doesn't just slap the controls out of your hands long term. 

 

2) The people saying Peacemaker isn't really that strong are also right. While the mechanics do cause some issues with afk farming and such, it really isn't that powerful an ability without a lot of squad members buffing you/debuffing enemies, etc. Peacemaker does not need a nerf, it needs to be buffed. It is not strong enough -- Mesa mains deserve better. 

 

In my opinion, the solution is clear. It needs some tweak so that the player has more control and needs to provide more input from the controls, but it also needs to be buffed to be clearly stronger than it is now. Mesa needs some love, not hate. I think the two sides of the argument have more common ground than they realize. We can make Peacemaker interactive and make it stronger/better than before. 

[Skaleek]

God damn equilibrium was such a good film.

[RazrOutlaw]

I still believe there are two sides to this that need to be taken into account:

 

1) I think the people saying that any skill that slaps the controls out of your hands needs to be changed, and should be, are correct. This also goes for Bladestorm, Miasma, etc. Saryn is being reworked so Miasma probably will be changed before long. And I'm sure they will get to Ash/Banshee eventually. I think Peacemaker does need some change that requires more input from the user, so it doesn't just slap the controls out of your hands long term. 

 

2) The people saying Peacemaker isn't really that strong are also right. While the mechanics do cause some issues with afk farming and such, it really isn't that powerful an ability without a lot of squad members buffing you/debuffing enemies, etc. Peacemaker does not need a nerf, it needs to be buffed. It is not strong enough -- Mesa mains deserve better. 

 

In my opinion, the solution is clear. It needs some tweak so that the player has more control and needs to provide more input from the controls, but it also needs to be buffed to be clearly stronger than it is now. Mesa needs some love, not hate. I think the two sides of the argument have more common ground than they realize. We can make Peacemaker interactive and make it stronger/better than before. 

First off, I think you're completely right, I have to say, I'd miss the old peacemaker, miasma or bladestorm when playing a defense mission if they rework all this abilities, but hey, that's only one game mode, there's plenty more for me to enjoy. 

Moving on to the peacemaker tweaks, everyone is saying it should be changed to something like excal's exalted blade, while I agree with this, there's many things that need to change aswell, if this ever happens peacemaker drain of energy needs to be reduced even more than excalibur exalted blade, why? you may ask, the reasoning behind this is simple, excalibur is able to lifesteal while he is ulting, since there aren't any lifesteal mods for secondary weapons (no, im not taking into account winds of purity since excal EB isn't affected by sindicate or melee special mods) mesa needs to have less drain so she can cast shatter shield and shooting gallery in order to survive, also I think that if this becomes a thing, she needs to be able to 1 shot everything, it wouldn't be any good otherwise, you are better off just using your tonkor and not the frame ability.

[(PSN)TheYetiMan22]

OP, were you actually trying to highlight that Mesa's other three abilities other than Peacemaker are actually really useful (as you were tanking Heavy Gunners no problem) and maybe Peacemaker doesn't really need a nerf but the thread has turned into a nerf Peacemaker thread? 

 

I see it. 

[Nosferagon]

now if only shooting gallery was able to stay on mesa at all times..... only reason i don't use her

[(PSN)whoistimjones]

You're definitely going to need better quality bait.

Nothing i said was bait, you just dont have a better response as to why EB is OP. You say his range makes him OP yet ignore a the negatives of the ability. Not to mention Trinity doesn't even have a range on her 4th, Novas is at least double and has no LoS and goes through walls. Loki is at least even to EB, but you dont want to pay attention to their OP 4ths, probably because they are your mains.

[(PSN)ZeroRilix]

First off, I think you're completely right, I have to say, I'd miss the old peacemaker, miasma or bladestorm when playing a defense mission if they rework all this abilities, but hey, that's only one game mode, there's plenty more for me to enjoy.

Moving on to the peacemaker tweaks, everyone is saying it should be changed to something like excal's exalted blade, while I agree with this, there's many things that need to change aswell, if this ever happens peacemaker drain of energy needs to be reduced even more than excalibur exalted blade, why? you may ask, the reasoning behind this is simple, excalibur is able to lifesteal while he is ulting, since there aren't any lifesteal mods for secondary weapons (no, im not taking into account winds of purity since excal EB isn't affected by sindicate or melee special mods) mesa needs to have less drain so she can cast shatter shield and shooting gallery in order to survive, also I think that if this becomes a thing, she needs to be able to 1 shot everything, it wouldn't be any good otherwise, you are better off just using your tonkor and not the frame ability.

This is exactly the rework mesa needs. I rarely use her after leveling her. I'm tempted to make a duration build, but have a couple questions. How does one make a duration build for her? Do you build it like you would for Invisible Loki? I haven't put any forma into my mesa, BTW.

[(PSN)v3n0m1984]

Change? I don't mind if it's a good rework, but nerf? nope.

[RazrOutlaw]

This is exactly the rework mesa needs. I rarely use her after leveling her. I'm tempted to make a duration build, but have a couple questions. How does one make a duration build for her? Do you build it like you would for Invisible Loki? I haven't put any forma into my mesa, BTW.

You can build her for duration in two different ways

1: FULL duration (narrow minded, primed or normal continuity, constitution), this does affect her second skill, shooting gallery, I personally don't use this build, but it's good if you are playing with a team that has squishy frames or if you aren't confident of their skills (this happens mostly on randoms) it's nice.

2: Nice duration with a little bit of range, for this one you'll need primed or normal continuity, constitution & stretch, this'll give you a nice range on shooting gallery & decent duration on shatter shield (also I don't run with fleeting expertise in this build)

 

In both you'll need intensify on, to cap the damage reduction of shatter shield.

If you solo a lot you'll end up loving her, like I do, having 95% damage reduction while all the enemies guns are jammed is awesome.

[Sibernetika]

from all of this I have noticed people have more of a problem with the AFK farm than they have with Mesa.. or more accurately that Mesa is the goto for farmers... thats like blaming the games or the music as the cause to why someone murdered people.... where exactly do you find these Mesa frames that you complain so much about? the void? why did you invite a farming Mesa to your void game? was it Draco? tell what were you doing at Draco farming T4keys? well you probably stayed for 4 waves and left anyway.. honestly if you are leveling your gear with several, and going to draco tell me you aren't Mr. happy pants when you see a Mesa that will super charge you with XP in those 4 waves so you can go and forma again so quickly.... now tell me where else do you Get a Peacemaker Mesa other than farming spots? if you want to play the game why go to a farming hotspot if you know chances are high that that is what you are going to get?that starmap is rather big and there is other places you can go instead of just those few places.. and if it's a pub game then well whatever.. due to the lack of trust that we have learned to expect from pub games we will always take a frame that can do things solo, Such as a Peacemaker Mesa, an insta-killing Saryn because you can trust those people to stay longer than 1 wave or not die 30 times in just 1 wave.

 

 

 

I can see it now one day people will call for Tonkor nerfs all over the show.. " I was running melee only and someone with a Tokor killed everything in 1 shot before I got there pls nerf"

[kubbi]

I think what OP is trying to say is that Mesa is much more than peacemaker what a lot of people seem to miss or forget.

I think Mesa is fine the way she is.

[(PSN)EvilFlowerChild]

i have no problems with peacemaker as it is but i do hope it gets changed asap because im tired of all these thread and its bias opinions, so yall can finally shut up, but i swear once it gets changed, and i see even ONE thread complaining about the mesa nerf I'll link every single thread where everyone was bashing mesa.

[RazrOutlaw]

I think what OP is trying to say is that Mesa is much more than peacemaker what a lot of people seem to miss or forget.

I think Mesa is fine the way she is.

Yes, you're right, OP was trying to show what mesa is, and not what everybody knows her four (see what I did there?), but then people started complaining about peacemaker like they always do and saying it should be nerfed, that's too overpowered.

Also I agree with you that mesa is fine the way she is, but I think a rework in her ult would be nice to calm all the haters down (although I think reworking the camping farm spots  would be better, cause peacemaker really helps in defense missions)

[(PSN)EvilFlowerChild]

Yes, you're right, OP was trying to show what mesa is, and not what everybody knows her four (see what I did there?), but then people started complaining about peacemaker like they always do and saying it should be nerfed, that's too overpowered.

Also I agree with you that mesa is fine the way she is, but I think a rework in her ult would be nice to calm all the haters down (although I think reworking the camping farm spots would be better, cause peacemaker really helps in defense missions)

Once mesa's ult will be nerfed or changed, they'll find a replacement , 'there'll always be a loot cave', as long as DE doesn't touch ballistic battery, shooting gallery and shatter shield I couldn't care less, i fail to see how a damage dealer frame is too 'OP' because the frame is doing what it's supposed to do, deal damage. But i do hope peacemaker gets a change and not because of any particular reason, but because of these kind of threads. Which is totally not ok, not even in the slightest.

[RazrOutlaw]

i have no problems with peacemaker as it is but i do hope it gets changed asap because im tired of all these thread and its bias opinions, so yall can finally shut up, but i swear once it gets changed, and i see even ONE thread complaining about the mesa nerf I'll link every single thread where everyone was bashing mesa.

When they rework her (if they ever do), be sure to expect the Mesa's regulators 1 shot every enemy in the whole world, mesa's new ability is too op, bring old peacemaker back threads, oh and the nerf saryn cause now she is the new draco go to frame too.

Some people just complain for fun, it's kinda like a sport for them.

[RazrOutlaw]

Once mesa's ult will be nerfed or changed, they'll find a replacement , 'there'll always be a loot cave', as long as DE doesn't touch ballistic battery, shooting gallery and shatter shield I couldn't care less, i fail to see how a damage dealer frame is too 'OP' because the frame is doing what it's supposed to do, deal damage. But i do hope peacemaker gets a change and not because of any particular reason, but because of these kind of threads. Which is totally not ok, not even in the slightest.

We share the same opinion, I think mesa's kit is perfect as it is, all of her abilities are awesome, including peacemaker, like you said, a DPS ability is meant to deal damage, so I for god sake's don't know what people are complaining of, no one seems to complain about frost, a tank/support stile frame being able to kill everything with 1 avalanche, cause let's face it guys, at the level where avalanche starts to drop it's the same level peacemaker drops, I would like to get peacemaker reworked, just to end up with all the hate to my favourite frame, perfect solution to end up with the mesa threads and not reworking peacemaker (so the people that still want to have this ability on defense missions don't get screwed up) it's to modify the distance between towers or points in interception missons, make the maps larger, or add more walls to them, that way you kill peacemaker's AFK farming.

[(PSN)EvilFlowerChild]

We share the same opinion, I think mesa's kit is perfect as it is, all of her abilities are awesome, including peacemaker, like you said, a DPS ability is meant to deal damage, so I for god sake's don't know what people are complaining of, no one seems to complain about frost, a tank/support stile frame being able to kill everything with 1 avalanche, cause let's face it guys, at the level where avalanche starts to drop it's the same level peacemaker drops, I would like to get peacemaker reworked, just to end up with all the hate to my favourite frame, perfect solution to end up with the mesa threads and not reworking peacemaker (so the people that still want to have this ability on defense missions don't get screwed up) it's to modify the distance between towers or points in interception missons, make the maps larger, or add more walls to them, that way you kill peacemaker's AFK farming.

I highly doubt majority of the people complaining about mesa even played her at endgame level, peacemaker barely deals damage when facing enemies level 100+ , I think everyone just like to claim to be an "endgame" player but in reality they just stick to low level planets, where every single ability is OP, including physics bolts.

Edited September 1, 2015 by (PS4)EvilFlowerChild

[RazrOutlaw]

I highly doubt majority of the people complaining about mesa even played her at endgame level, peacemaker barely deals damage when facing enemies level 100+ , I think everyone just like to claim to be an "endgame" player but in reality they just stick to low level planets, where every single ability is OP, including physics bolts.

I think the people that are complaining about it haven't even played her outside of draco.

[_JustSomeone_]

I think the people that are complaining about it haven't even played her outside of draco.

i'm one of those that complain against mesa but only peacemaker .. don't get me wrong i don't hate mesa, i use her with duration 2 and 3 build and she's awesome.

 

I'm sure mostly the problems against this warframe is the laziness its giving to the player base (leeching everywhere..example mesa spamming 4, a frost semi afk just doing snowglobe, others afk mostly or trying to do sometihng with rank 0 weapons)

 

Overpowered? we know she's not

Edited September 1, 2015 by xDesconocidox

[Gen.KiTeer]

Yesterday some guy left our t3 survival group the second he saw my Mesa, calling me a mesa noob. That kind of thing is getting annoying.

It's also note worthy that i was running a duration Mesa for her 2 and 3.

 

I'm all up for changing Mesa's 4 to something more interactive than just holding a button and see everything die around me.

As it is now, it is ruining the reputation of a pretty versatile frame and turning it into a one trick pony.

 

 

 

EDIT:

To those who say Mesa's 4 is weak at higher levels, yes it is, but with it's mechanic it is still way too powerful for lowerlevels. Not damage wise but how it works. You can just keep holding the button and whole rooms die, while the rest of the team doesnt even get a chance to see the enemies.

So on lower levels it is just destroying everything, way too easy and afk promoting and on higher levels it is useless, go figure. It definitely needs a rework to be useful and balanced against any level.

Edited September 1, 2015 by CruelMaiden

[RazrOutlaw]

i'm one of those that complain against mesa but only peacemaker .. don't get me wrong i don't hate mesa, i use her with duration 2 and 3 build and she's awesome.

 

I'm sure mostly the problems against this warframe is the laziness its giving to the player base (leeching everywhere..example mesa spamming 4, a frost semi afk just doing snowglobe, others afk mostly or trying to do sometihng with rank 0 weapons)

 

Overpowered? we know she's not

But those problems don't come from the warframe nor the ability itself, sadly, mesa was assigned by the player base as the farming turret, the AFK farming frame, It could have been anyone else, even saryn fullfills that role better since she is able to get the EV energy and spam miasma, I have to say, as a duration mesa player, I love peacemaker, I think it's really useful on defense missions but that's it. Like I said before, we need more vast maps, with greater distance between the tower at interception (yes, I know this would kill the people that want to solo interception missions) or make the maps like the orokin one, with lots of walls and stairs, so mesa's can't camp on it, also tone down the exp a bit.

Personally I don't mind on peacemaker getting reworked, if this helps ending the hate the communitty has towards us the mesa players so be it, I'd have to admit we will be missing on a really useful skill for defense missions, but hey, at least now I can play mesa and not get hated on, being called a press 4 to win, or a noob.