Suggestion To De - Unforma-Ing And Selectable Mod Ranks

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

DE needs to add a way to UNFORMA. So you can refund spent formas on crap you dont like anymore and use them on new crap thats the flavor of the month. The cost should be credits of course.

 

But no nonsense like Arcane Distillers that waste millions of credits and weeks of waiting to build plus a week of rep grinding, then have to waste more to rebuild the arcanes.

 

DE should also add selectable mod ranks - so if you have a Max R10 Blind Range for example, you can equip it then choose any rank from 0 to 10 on the fly. If you have a rank 3 Heavy Calibur on the other hand, you can select any rank from 0 to 3, since 3 is the highest rank you boosted it to in the mod foundry.

 

This would have no impact on trading, as when the mod is offered it defaults to its highest boosted rank. (A R7 Serration will trade as an R7 Serration, and a R3 Life Strike will trade as an R3 Lifestike... no scamming or tricks)

 

This will benefit all players, as you can without fear max out all mods and still have complete versatility over their effects and drain ranks. Also, youll only need duplicates for sentinels, so most dupes can be traded or sold, further benefiting everyone. No reason to keep 5 different Narrow Mindeds, Blind Rages, etc since a Max one will give you all 10 selectable ranks.

 

TLDR- DE needs to let us remove formas to resuse them, and allow mod ranks to be selectable from 0 to the highest rank achieved - on the fly - eliminating need for dupes and maximizing versatility

[Bizzaro21]

totally agree

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

I feel as though it's crossed many sensible and veteran players minds, Im very surprised nobody has made a topic on it yet! Hopefully this will draw attention to it, as it really benefits everyone and theres not a single negative :)

[Moomabo]

Do it.

[FelisImpurrator]

No one, you say?

[ValkyrTheSoviet]

I would say yes, but that eliminates the entire point of being careful with your resources.

[[DE]Rebecca]

The mod rank selection (sometimes referred to as underclocking) is a good (frankly great) concept but under the hood it is a bit of a nightmare with the way Mod info is stored per account. It is a very, very hard issue to solve, it technically has a solution in game now with copies of mods, and right now I don't see it entering the dev's pile of priorities considering how much full their current plate is.  Maybe one day.

 

Forma applications being a permanent consumable will be staying this way for the foreseeable future, but some interesting suggestions about per loadout are cool (although run us into the info-stored per account problem).

[FelisImpurrator]

 

Thanks for the response, Reb - I've always wondered about the official dev stance on this!

 

Although I do wonder, has the idea of 'permanently unlocking' polarity slots with forma (i.e., letting them cycle through all previously forma'd polarities, or making one forma unlock them all instead of putting one specific polarity on) ever been considered at DE?

[bl4ckhunter]

The mod rank selection (sometimes referred to as underclocking) is a good (frankly great) concept but under the hood it is a bit of a nightmare with the way Mod info is stored per account. It is a very, very hard issue to solve, it technically has a solution in game now with copies of mods, and right now I don't see it entering the dev's pile of priorities considering how much full their current plate is.  Maybe one day.

It is not a solution at all, it's a bandaid to frankly very poor design that should've been addressed when you decided to introduce corrupted mods. Workarounds are not solutions. You should keep that in mind.

 

EDIT: your supposed solution is not even viable in most cases, ranking up rare10 mods like transient fortitude and blind rage takes seroius effort, and the difference between rank 9 and rank 10 can at times break builds, it is not correct to expect players to work over the same mods multiple times just becouse you could not be bothered to address an issue

Edited September 11, 2015 by bl4ckhunter

[Moomabo]

Read: 

It's too hard.

and

We really don't want to.

[FelisImpurrator]

 

 

And the entitlement continues.

 

Read: They want to do it, but there are a thousand other things that A) they want to do just as badly, B) are more important/urgent, and C) are probably less of a nightmare to code.

 

I think DE is well aware that the current system is the mother of all workarounds, and an unholy nightmare for R10 mods, but if it were that easy to fix they would have done it already.

 

As the person who wrote a massive thread on this exact subject, knock it off, you're not helping anyone.

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

The mod rank selection (sometimes referred to as underclocking) is a good (frankly great) concept but under the hood it is a bit of a nightmare with the way Mod info is stored per account. It is a very, very hard issue to solve, it technically has a solution in game now with copies of mods, and right now I don't see it entering the dev's pile of priorities considering how much full their current plate is.  Maybe one day.

 

Forma applications being a permanent consumable will be staying this way for the foreseeable future, but some interesting suggestions about per loadout are cool (although run us into the info-stored per account problem).

 

 

I appreciate your response, though it disappoints me to hear it wont even be considered for rework in the near future. Mod and forma polarity versatility is a great QOL change that most players would benefit from. I wont hold my breath, but I wont give up hope on it!

No one, you say?

 

 

Great catch! 

 

His post is even more detailed than mine is, I like the idea of forma polarity swaps on the fly

Edited September 11, 2015 by (PS4)True_Reclaimer

[ToxicTroublermaker]

The mod rank selection (sometimes referred to as underclocking) is a good (frankly great) concept but under the hood it is a bit of a nightmare with the way Mod info is stored per account. It is a very, very hard issue to solve, it technically has a solution in game now with copies of mods, and right now I don't see it entering the dev's pile of priorities considering how much full their current plate is.  Maybe one day.

 

Forma applications being a permanent consumable will be staying this way for the foreseeable future, but some interesting suggestions about per loadout are cool (although run us into the info-stored per account problem).

A solution to the account problem might beto make it so that, with each rank gained, it saves to the account and can raised or lowered at will with a maximum of the rank you possess.

If theres an issue with other mods saving OVER the one you want just save the highest rank mod to the account and dont save any other mod until they reach ABOVE the highest ones rank. Once at max rank, that mod CANNOT be saved over by any other mod EXCEPT if it is sold, traded etc and thus the mod save will either reset entirely or save the next highest rank mod in your inventory

[AdunSaveMe]

The mod rank selection (sometimes referred to as underclocking) is a good (frankly great) concept but under the hood it is a bit of a nightmare with the way Mod info is stored per account. It is a very, very hard issue to solve, it technically has a solution in game now with copies of mods, and right now I don't see it entering the dev's pile of priorities considering how much full their current plate is.  Maybe one day.

 

Forma applications being a permanent consumable will be staying this way for the foreseeable future, but some interesting suggestions about per loadout are cool (although run us into the info-stored per account problem).

Well, at least now we know why it hasn't been done.

[Moomabo]

And the entitlement continues.

 

Read: They want to do it, but there are a thousand other things that A) they want to do just as badly, B) are more important/urgent, and C) are probably less of a nightmare to code.

 

I think DE is well aware that the current system is the mother of all workarounds, and an unholy nightmare for R10 mods, but if it were that easy to fix they would have done it already.

 

As the person who wrote a massive thread on this exact subject, knock it off, you're not helping anyone.

A) Hold on, the "We really don't want to." is referring to the forma change;  

              "Forma applications being a permanent consumable will be staying this way for the foreseeable future, but some interesting suggestions about per loadout are cool (although run us into the info-stored per account problem)."

is simply a pleasant way to say no.

 

B) It isn't entitlement to have priorities different from those of the dev team. I feel that the core mechanics and progression systems of any game are at least as important if not more important as a foundation than new content. DE obviously doesn't prioritize the same things I do, or they lack the human resources to commit to such a project. I understand that.

 

C) It shouldn't be a nightmare to code. The problem is bandwidth or at least that's what seems to been implied. I would love to get a peek under the hood though. I drool over this game regularly.

D) I'm frustrated because I like this game. I apologize, it's really easy to be offensive here.

 

I have and always will come across as caustic on the forums. I'm blunt it's how I speak, I'm not going to change it but I am willing to apologize for it.

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

A solution to the account problem might beto make it so that, with each rank gained, it saves to the account and can raised or lowered at will with a maximum of the rank you possess.

If theres an issue with other mods saving OVER the one you want just save the highest rank mod to the account and dont save any other mod until they reach ABOVE the highest ones rank. Once at max rank, that mod CANNOT be saved over by any other mod EXCEPT if it is sold, traded etc and thus the mod save will either reset entirely or save the next highest rank mod in your inventory

 

 

Good stuff right here. I wonder if it would work? But without the Devs support to at least attempt to fix the current systems, nothing will ever change sadly.

 

I personally think keeping data for multiple different rank duplicates of each mod - isnt all that different from having a selectable rank option for your single highest mod - but Im no developer so my opinion isnt valid.

[bl4ckhunter]

And the entitlement continues.

 

Read: They want to do it, but there are a thousand other things that A) they want to do just as badly, B) are more important/urgent, and C) are probably less of a nightmare to code.

one thing is to say, "we're working on something else for the near future and we lack the manpower to address the issue becouse it's complex and it will be addressed in the future at some point so be patient" and another is "a fix sounds nice but we do not feel any need to address the issue at hand becouse it's hard and you can work around it so since it's not completely gamebreaking live with it for now, we may or may not address it in the remote future", what we  got told is the latter, it does not feel like they're acknowleging the matter as an issue at all,  it's a problem that needs fixing not a request for some new pretty feature, from the words used in the post it does not seem like this point got across at all. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by bl4ckhunter

[FelisImpurrator]

 

Fair enough. Still, whether it's the source code or the bandwidth... DE already has problems with the latter. I think more than anything else it's the lack of resources to spare - this sounds like an extremely intensive process to commit to for millions of players across three platforms because it's a core system.

 

As for the forma thing - what it sounds like is that they've considered other options, and while interesting, those others may not be technically feasible at this point. Keep in mind that DE is ~200 people.

 

I love the game too, and it is frustrating, but for the time being there's nothing else to do other than to deal with the time/labor restrictions in place.

 

That's only what it reads as if you insist on taking it in the most pessimistic way. I read it as the first version except for the last part - for that, replace with "and we don't know when we'll have the time to commit to addressing it, so for the time being, you'll have to put up with the workaround". If they actually made a verbal commitment to something the forums would hold them to the exact letter and tear them apart if they couldn't deliver, and this has happened for basically all of Warframe's dev history, so a safe answer like this is not precisely surprising.

 

I want this fixed as much as you do, but then again I also wish there were over twice as many people working on Warframe, and that's evidently not something feasible anytime soon...

[ToxicTroublermaker]

Good stuff right here. I wonder if it would work? But without the Devs support to at least attempt to fix the current systems, nothing will ever change sadly.

 

I personally think keeping data for multiple different rank duplicates of each mod - isnt all that different from having a selectable rank option for your single highest mod - but Im no developer so my opinion isnt valid.

Oh no its very different in terms of the amount of coding. Im fairly sure my idea would be less coding than what Reb was talking about

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

Oh no its very different in terms of the amount of coding. Im fairly sure my idea would be less coding than what Reb was talking about

 

 

Yeah I think I get what you mean. Reb claims its too much data to store for EVERY mod. Your solution - store the data for the single highest rank mod, (or just when a mod is fully maxed). Much less data needs to be stored this way. And as for trading like I said, it would default to highest achieved value so that wouldnt be affected. I think this is a very plausible solution!

[FelisImpurrator]

Oh no its very different in terms of the amount of coding. Im fairly sure my idea would be less coding than what Reb was talking about

Ah, indeed - this does look like an interesting solution. Still, it would require an overhaul of the mod code either way, and the changeover alone - well, I can't imagine it would be easy.

 

Especially not with the walls of bugs that remain unfixed. I have seen hell, and it is Warframe bug reports.

[dmkrodan]

The mod rank selection (sometimes referred to as underclocking) is a good (frankly great) concept but under the hood it is a bit of a nightmare with the way Mod info is stored per account. It is a very, very hard issue to solve, it technically has a solution in game now with copies of mods, and right now I don't see it entering the dev's pile of priorities considering how much full their current plate is.  Maybe one day.

 

Forma applications being a permanent consumable will be staying this way for the foreseeable future, but some interesting suggestions about per loadout are cool (although run us into the info-stored per account problem).

what about this idea i posted regarding forma a few months back? Would it be viable at all? https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/492040-make-forma-more-rewarding-and-remove-the-limitations-they-present-at-higher-amounts/#entry5494159

[Homer87]

The mod rank selection (sometimes referred to as underclocking) is a good (frankly great) concept but under the hood it is a bit of a nightmare with the way Mod info is stored per account. It is a very, very hard issue to solve, it technically has a solution in game now with copies of mods, and right now I don't see it entering the dev's pile of priorities considering how much full their current plate is.  Maybe one day.

 

Forma applications being a permanent consumable will be staying this way for the foreseeable future, but some interesting suggestions about per loadout are cool (although run us into the info-stored per account problem).

I don't care about the underclocking for now, but I am concerned about the use of forma. Since there was a multishot change proposed, this will change a lot of my builds around. I'll level with you - at this point, I don't want to use forma on anything until I know for sure what is happening with this. Just the ability to take away forma one one thing and apply it to another would be priceless.

[MantisCore]

The mod rank selection (sometimes referred to as underclocking) is a good (frankly great) concept but under the hood it is a bit of a nightmare with the way Mod info is stored per account. It is a very, very hard issue to solve, it technically has a solution in game now with copies of mods, and right now I don't see it entering the dev's pile of priorities considering how much full their current plate is.  Maybe one day.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but wouldn't this be saved as part of the loadout data rather than the account mod data? I guess I have no idea how your data is structured so it's hard to be constructive.

[S7ORM]

The mod rank selection (sometimes referred to as underclocking) is a good (frankly great) concept but under the hood it is a bit of a nightmare with the way Mod info is stored per account. It is a very, very hard issue to solve, it technically has a solution in game now with copies of mods, and right now I don't see it entering the dev's pile of priorities considering how much full their current plate is.  Maybe one day.

 

Forma applications being a permanent consumable will be staying this way for the foreseeable future, but some interesting suggestions about per loadout are cool (although run us into the info-stored per account problem).

What about ability ranks?

I'd like to be able to use a shorter duration Stomp (by ranking it down) with my long duration Roar build, or a single-use Wormhole so it doesn't get in other players' ways (or be left for enemy use).

Are there any plans to allow players to decrease the ability's level, now that they aren't mods anymore.