SpeckyFloh Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Dear Developer Team, i have a serious Question. Why did you changed the duration on toggle-abilities? Now with the Change, the Duration is like an power Efficiency for toggable abilitys, ok.... Now im wondering, that the fleeting Expertise mod is almost useless for many warframes. Warframes and there Primes Affected: Nyx, Mesa, Valkyr, Ember, Excalibur and Banshee. (May i missed some - i counted only the toggable ultimates) Fleeting Expertise has no effect for toggable Abilities beacuse it gives as much efficiency as it removes the duration. There are much more mods, especially the corupted mods are weaker and they are so difficult to farm (compared to other rare mods) As you can see these Warframes were nerfed extremly. I know you want to Balance and i agree with the most changes, but this one is such a mess for me. Please overthink this change, maybe you can change it a bit so that Efficiency is stronger then duration. (maybe 50-75%?) Thanks for reading and sorry for my bad english ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oranji Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I dont really see a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignOfTheTaurus Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Use duration mods thats all.Devs want us to all frames need Duration,range,strength and efficiency.Every negative % will make an ability worst. so you need to decide. Edited October 2, 2015 by SignOfTheTaurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinKenshin Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I dont really see a nerf. well, it's kinda of a hidden nerf? cos now when you build for certain warframes will, you'd have to count the effect of duration too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyborg-Rox Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Almost useless? Because it has a smaller effect on very few abilities? wat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobWasHere Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Fleeting may cancel itself for toggles, but still reduce cast cost on all other abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00zau Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 + effeciency and - duration in equal amounts still net gains. Nyx, at least, still wants fleeting for shorter Chaos (more stuns), and negligible effect on absorb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinKenshin Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Use duration mods thats all. Devs want us to all frames need Duration,range,strength and efficiency. Every negative % will make an ability worst. so you need to decide. I can see that they're doing so..but where is the build diversity that they claim they want? if every negative power will surely make an ability worse, people will just keep building that warframe (or every warframe) while not using any corrupted mod, or making every power above 100% maybe a few will take that negative power, but it's still a few, and almost everyone will balance off all the powers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiyanjin1 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Nyx is one of the few who this update buffed to the moon actually. I no longer have to give her negative duration to be able to re-cast Chaos and my Nyx is a chaos build. I also have her Arcane helmet so with just Streamline and that I get 45+ eff. She can now make Chaos and mind control go over 30-40 second without worrying about not being able to re-cast and since I don't have to cast it ever 15 seconds the energy cost is mitigated abit. This further adds to her forth with the change. To me Nyx (with the build I have that is) is now top 3 (she always was for me). If you're a Absorb build then things are worst for you. Edit: It also makes Chaos Sphere alittle more usable since you can have more duration (same with the mind control aug) Edited October 2, 2015 by Saiyanjin1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoracraft Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Maybe they could make it so negative duration didn't affect efficiency? It would be like if an ability had a set duration, but you could pick whether you wanted to make it cheap with either efficiency or duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeckyFloh Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 We can close this discussion there is already a "hot" one with over 60 replies read it and you understand what i mean, sorry my english is a bit bad maybe i didnt expressed it like i wanted to. I wanted to say that the corrupted mods are hard to farm and now many of them are rarely useless. But that is only my opinion ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonm Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Fleeting may cancel itself for toggles, but still reduce cast cost on all other abilities. It's not even useless on toggles. The bonus from the eff is greater than what the negative dur takes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horcruxpotter Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Fleeting may cancel itself for toggles, but still reduce cast cost on all other abilities. It doesn't cancel itself. 100% extra duration is equivalent to gaining 50% extra efficiency. A mod that gives you X% efficiency, but takes away the same amount of X% duration cannot cancel itself. Try that for yourself, DE added a new function in the arsenal that allows you to check how are your abilities affected by your mods. Pick any warframe with energy drain abilities like ember, excal, valkyr or any other, put fleeting expertise rank 4, streamline rank 4, and primed continuity rank 9. Your power efficiency will be 175% (That's the efficiency cap), and your energy drain will be at the lowest possible (25% of the base energy drain). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnilX Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Use duration mods thats all. Devs want us to all frames need Duration,range,strength and efficiency. Every negative % will make an ability worst. so you need to decide. that doesn't work already tried 200% duration is 50% decrease on toggle efficiency for example what i did with my Exca P: Vitality > max Primed flow > max Streamline > max Fleeting expertise > max Intensify > max Transient fortitude > R7 it will be better maxed--> the 2 counter each other making it usable Narrow minded > R7 also will be better maxed--> Rage > max results: Power duration : 92% Efficiency : 175% Power range 52% Power str : 170% > with maxed mods will increase to 185% this give almost max efficiency on EB skill numbers in order of skills : 1) 6.24 meters 425 damage 2) 13.8 duration 13 meters 3) 1700 damage 12 javelins 13 meters 4) blind duration 5.52 blind range 2.6 damage 425> will increase maybe 20 points ?when mods get maxed energy per second 0.63 >will increase to 0.62 when the mods get maxed the comparation to the old build was : damage was 560 with mods not maxed had power str 220% but i had max efficiency so the balance just took off dps from the EB that the only thing it did. now you can say your opinion about if it was a balance or a nerf you chose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Snowbluff Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Toggled nerf is bullS#&$. Does positive duration improve efficiency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Nyoka Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Well... i dont think it is really a nerf... Excalibur for example, now i dont need to use on him the fleeting.. only streamline + duration mods.. P.Continuity? sure!... his efficiency will stay the same but i will have a bettler radial blind... it is not a nerf if you know how to use it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnilX Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Well... i dont think it is really a nerf... Excalibur for example, now i dont need to use on him the fleeting.. only streamline + duration mods.. P.Continuity? sure!... his efficiency will stay the same but i will have a bettler radial blind... it is not a nerf if you know how to use it! what is you power str ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Snowbluff Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Well... i dont think it is really a nerf... Excalibur for example, now i dont need to use on him the fleeting.. only streamline + duration mods.. P.Continuity? sure!... his efficiency will stay the same but i will have a bettler radial blind... it is not a nerf if you know how to use it! Yeah, if you can get good duration it's nice. Maybe there's a way to have max power with good duration to counteract blind rage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Nyoka Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) what is you power str ? aa... im not home right now so i cant really tell you that.. but im pretty sure it stays the same... i dont use blind rage on him... :D Yeah, if you can get good duration it's nice. Maybe there's a way to have max power with good duration to counteract blind rage? yeah.. no blind rage... i didnt use it before, wont use it now.. besides.. excall dont really need blind rage... the only thing you need to worry is the mods on your melee.. yesterday(when i last played) i was still able to get 1kk crits easy... and anergy orbs drops like all the time so the efficiency loss with the update was almost imperceptible even with a maxed transient fortitude Edited October 2, 2015 by _Nyoka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Nyoka Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 results: Power duration : 92% Efficiency : 175% Power range 52% Power str : 170% > with maxed mods will increase to 185% Efficiency at 175%? do you really need this?.. for sure? i though the efficiency cap was 75%. (only saw what you wrote now.. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender37 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 We just need more corrupted mods that affect different stats. The number of current combinations could be added to. (+power/ -range) for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignOfTheTaurus Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) that doesn't work already tried 200% duration is 50% decrease on toggle efficiency for example what i did with my Exca P: Vitality > max Primed flow > max Streamline > max Fleeting expertise > max Intensify > max Transient fortitude > R7 it will be better maxed--> the 2 counter each other making it usable Narrow minded > R7 also will be better maxed--> Rage > max results: Power duration : 92% Efficiency : 175% Power range 52% Power str : 170% > with maxed mods will increase to 185% this give almost max efficiency on EB skill numbers in order of skills : 1) 6.24 meters 425 damage 2) 13.8 duration 13 meters 3) 1700 damage 12 javelins 13 meters 4) blind duration 5.52 blind range 2.6 damage 425> will increase maybe 20 points ?when mods get maxed energy per second 0.63 >will increase to 0.62 when the mods get maxed the comparation to the old build was : damage was 560 with mods not maxed had power str 220% but i had max efficiency so the balance just took off dps from the EB that the only thing it did. now you can say your opinion about if it was a balance or a nerf you chose. If you have 100% duration then its the same as before updatw 17.5 it drains the same amount of energy. So I dont see a problem. I have build 115% power strength (helmet arcane bonus) Power Range 145% Power Efficiency 170% Power Duration 133% Steel Charge aura And its draining the same or little less energy as before update 17.5 Still exalted blade OP as fuq, draining 0.63 energy per second. With these possibles duration builds DE should boost energy cost on these abilities from 2.5 to 5 energy. Even with ember now I can just turn 4 and run the whole 30min Survival without turning it off. Even the Valkyr is the worst reason to this OP, because SHE IS IMMORTAL!! With 4team squad to get life supports Valkyr can go to 2Hours survival without turning 4 ability off. Edited October 2, 2015 by SignOfTheTaurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Nyoka Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 We just need more corrupted mods that affect different stats. The number of current combinations could be added to. (+power/ -range) for example. Good idea!! If you have 100% duration then its the same as before updatw 17.5 it drains the same amount of energy. So I dont see a problem. I have build 115% power strength (helmet arcane bonus) Power Range 145% Power Efficiency 170% Power Duration 133% Steel Charge aura And its draining the same or little less energy as before update 17.5 Still exalted blade OP as fuq, draining 0.63 energy per second. With these possibles duration builds DE should boost energy cost on these abilities from 2.5 to 5 energy. Even with ember now I can just turn 4 and run the whole 30min Survival without turning it off. Even the Valkyr is the worst reason to this OP, because SHE IS IMMORTAL!! With 4team squad to get life supports Valkyr can go to 2Hours survival without turning 4 ability off. Keep in mind that the efficiency cap is 75% since the last time i checked... and now the same goes to drain/sec abilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swailwort Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 All of those frames have a 4 that is a toggle.. Have you though about not using the damned 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 You have to build for four stats now? That's almost like chess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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