Valkyr's Hysteria Is Not Overpowered.

[OfficerBeepsky]

Valkyr in her current state is fine. She was practically useless in the party pre-buff, and now that she's finally competitive as an endgame frame, people are screaming for nerfs.

 

Of bloody course she'd be able to last longer in T4S than anyone else, she's invincible, but the damage falloff gets to the point where the only way to kill things is with slide attacks and finishers later on, it's not a question of whether or not she's powerful enough, or overpowered, it's a question of just how far people want to push the game

 

In the niche she sits in? She freaking excels. Which is good design. She's meant to be the berserk fury that brings pain up close and personal in a game designed around ranged combat.

 

People forget that hysteria has a major, major downside.

 

The wiki page describing it is unfortunately, wrong.

 

If Hysteria deactivates with enemies within 10 meters, you take 7.5% of the damage you would have taken outside of hysteria. That's what that counter is, and once that starts getting high because the damage enemies are dealing is starting to scale absurdly high? If you screw up and bump into a nullie? You're dead.

 

That's the balance. If you screw up, you're dead. The T4S video is nothing more than a skilled player pushing the boundaries of the game as far as he can.

 

If anything, the only possible "Nerf" I could see DE making, is having the kill range for hysteria scale inversely with power range.

That way, narrow minded no longer has a double benefit on it. As it stands now, the skill is in a good place in her kit.

 

Edit: And to anyone who wants to claim that the invulnerability should be completely removed, this is a friendly reminder that mesa gets 95% damage reduction from shatter shield, Valkyr needs something tankier than that or else her entire theme is broken.

Edited October 10, 2015 by OfficerBeepsky

[IfritKajiTora]

Excelent excuses.  This frame is too easy to play compared to others, and that is a problem. Immortality for long time is OP no matter what you tell.
Even tryndamer in league of legends have ulti take work only for 3 seconds and after that he need to wait a long cooldown time to use it again.

Edited October 10, 2015 by IfritKajiTora

[OfficerBeepsky]

Excelent excuses.  This frame is too easy to play compared to others, and that is a problem. Immortality for long time is OP no matter what you tell.

Even tryndamer in league of legends have ulti take work only for 3 seconds and after that he need to wait a long cooldown time to use it again.

Did you really just try to compare league of legends to warframe.

 

They're completely different games with completely different playstyles.

 

Okay, yeah, Valkyr's easy to play, I'll give you that much, but for the love of god, in order for him to make that video possible, he had to gimp half his frame's skill kit. Paralysis had no range, making it practically useless because of how hard it is to hit anything with it, when it's arguably one of her best single target nukes in the game, because it opens the enemy you hit up to a melee finisher with hysteria or your melee weapon.

 

Ripline got a massive buff this update, but with no range, and a complete reliance on efficiency, he was stuck unable to use that as well.

 

He specialized like /crazy/ and pushed a gamemode further than anyone else.

 

Does that make the frame overpowered? No.

Any frame can make it far given the right build and good enough luck with spawns and drops.

 

Oh no, he gets a few extra prime parts per key for staying a bit longer in an endless mission.

 

Warframe's endgame consists of looking at the tools you have available to you, and seeing just how far you can push now that you have all the maxed everything ever. Once you're at the point where gameplay that's seen in that video is feasible, you've already beaten the game.

 

Don't scream at DE to ruin everyone elses experience because of one player being more skilled and better equipped than you are.

 

Your goal, as a player, should be to get on that level.

Not to force people who want to minmax to be brought down to yours.

Edited October 10, 2015 by OfficerBeepsky

[Ghost333]

Excelent excuses.  This frame is too easy to play compared to others, and that is a problem. Immortality for long time is OP no matter what you tell.

Even tryndamer in league of legends have ulti take work only for 3 seconds and after that he need to wait a long cooldown time to use it again.

Is that what we are comparing WF to now?

A PvE game to a MOBA?

 

And Immortality being OP? Excuse me, how far have you gone in a T4S or T4D? Did you do the third stage of the recent tactical alert? Have you ever been shot by literally ANYTHING on Ceres? Have you gone through Pluto with starter gear, barely modded? When you start taking insta-kill damage from a f**king GRINEER LANCER, Immortality is anything BUT overpowered. It becomes a freaking requirement to survive.

 

In short, I hope you get swarmed by level 40 seekers and ballistae in every mission you go on.

And I hope the missions start on fire.

[Stratego89]

Nothing should be able to go completely invincible forever. Hysteria IS OP and needs changes still. But it is now in a good place for people who do not like to abuse that mechanic of it, and use it as an emergency button or something to deal with one ancient quickly to save the group, or revive, etc.

 

-Sincerely, an avid Valkyr user.

[OfficerBeepsky]

Nothing should be able to go completely invincible forever. Hysteria IS OP and needs changes still. But it is now in a good place for people who do not like to abuse that mechanic of it, and use it as an emergency button or something to deal with one ancient quickly to save the group, or revive, etc.

 

-Sincerely, an avid Valkyr user.

What if they replaced the invincibility with damage resistance equivalent to mesa's shatter shield? If mesa can get 95% damage reduction, Valk should too, yeah?

 

I mean it's not like she's supposed to be the tankiest frame in the game or anything.

Edited October 10, 2015 by OfficerBeepsky

[Senketsu_]

She is totally overpowered. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Simply that its a fact.

[Marthrym]

Excelent excuses.  This frame is too easy to play compared to others, and that is a problem. Immortality for long time is OP no matter what you tell.

Even tryndamer in league of legends have ulti take work only for 3 seconds and after that he need to wait a long cooldown time to use it again.

That's the most nonsensical comparison you could make. LEAGUE OF LEGENDS? Man... Seriously, do you even Warframe? Comparing it to LoL of all games? *sigh*

 

 

Nothing should be able to go completely invincible forever. Hysteria IS OP and needs changes still. But it is now in a good place for people who do not like to abuse that mechanic of it, and use it as an emergency button or something to deal with one ancient quickly to save the group, or revive, etc.

 

-Sincerely, an avid Valkyr user.

 I have difficulty believeing the last sentence yof that post, to be honest...

 

 

 

There are enough downsides and counters to Hysteria to balance it, and as time passes they get more and more numerous. The one thing that makes it worth pressing 4 is the damage mitigation. Without it, Hysteria is WORTHLESS. A Warcry build blows it out of the water any day. Let's say we remove that damage mitigation. What do we have left? A pathetic excuse for an ult. A melee subpar in every way to regular melee. Damage, mobility, range... It sucks majorly. And even if it didn't, it would simply overlap with Warcry builds. I doubt any of the whiners know what balance means.

 

Instead of whining that Hysteria is "overpowered" (people need to stop using this term so liberally, seriously) and just asking for the devs to just break it, why not propose something worth the trade-off? Thus far I haven't seen anything in these forums that comes close to being a good solution. One that wouldn't be completely redundant with Warcry builds.

 

 

EDIT : It's also strange that people conveniently ignore Chroma and Trinity. They both easily achieve 99% reduction, while still being to fully use their weapons. I've seen tham at work in very high level content, and honestly if Hysteria is overpowered, then we should create a new word for these 2. Hell they can buff the whole team in the process! Just saying, food for thought...

Edited October 10, 2015 by Marthrym

[OfficerBeepsky]

She is totally overpowered. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Simply that its a fact.

Her kit revolves around her ult.

 

1.) Brings enemies closer to you, or brings you closer to enemies

2.) Speeds up Melee, and buffs Armor.

3.) Stuns enemies, opening them to melee finishers

4.) Absurdly high melee damage, at the downside of needing to get in close, completely disables access to ranged combat. Invincible for the duration, with life steal granted in order to use it to regenerate health. Main benefit? Invulnerability.

 

 

So naturally, her ult is going to be the best thing she has, since her entire concept, revolves around using that ult effectively.

 

She's a lot more powerful now than she was before. But what she was before, was very, very, bad.

[Transmorphic_Wyvern]

Personally, I dont mod valkyr for power range

Edited October 10, 2015 by Transmorphic_Wyvern

[OfficerBeepsky]

Another opinion thread : I think DE needs to open a "Opinions" subforum under General Discussion to cater to these sort of posts.

Claiming hysteria is overpowered is also an opinion.

 

Trinity can make the entire party invincible, and have them never run out of energy too.

Chroma can make himself invincible, while also giving himself like, 500% extra damage to all his weapons.

[OfficerBeepsky]

That's the most nonsensical comparison you could make. LEAGUE OF LEGENDS? Man... Seriously, do you even Warframe? Comparing it to LoL of all games? *sigh*

 

 

 I have difficulty believeing the last sentence yof that post, to be honest...

 

 

 

There are enough downsides and counters to Hysteria to balance it, and as time passes they get more and more numerous. The one thing that makes it worth pressing 4 is the damage mitigation. Without it, Hysteria is WORTHLESS. A Warcry build blows it out of the water any day. Let's say we remove that damage mitigation. What do we have left? A pathetic excuse for an ult. A melee subpar in every way to regular melee. Damage, mobility, range... It sucks majorly. And even if it didn't, it would simply overlap with Warcry builds. I doubt any of the whiners know what balance means.

 

Instead of whining that Hysteria is "overpowered" (people need to stop using this term so liberally, seriously) and just asking for the devs to just break it, why not propose something worth the trade-off? Thus far I haven't seen anything in these forums that comes close to being a good solution. One that wouldn't be completely redundant with Warcry builds.

 

 

EDIT : It's also strange that people conveniently ignore Chroma and Trinity. They both easily achieve 99% reduction, while still being to fully use their weapons. I've seen tham at work in very high level content, and honestly if Hysteria is overpowered, then we should create a new word for these 2. Hell they can buff the whole team in the process! Just saying, food for thought...

 

As much as I hate shooting my own thread in the foot. Warcry isn't on par with Hysteria anymore, Hysteria copies weapon mods, including berserker and primed reach.

 

While true that warcry can create a lot of damage mitigation through armor gained, hysteria directly outclasses every melee weapon in the game, which is honestly the way it should have been in the first place.

 

Used together, they're much more powerful than either used alone, but building her to the point where both can excel is an an incredibly tedious process.

My Valkyr has 7 forma on her because I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what my own personal comfy zone was for her loadout and screwed up a few times.

Edited October 10, 2015 by OfficerBeepsky

[Stratego89]

What if they replaced the invincibility with damage resistance equivalent to mesa's shatter shield? If mesa can get 95% damage reduction, Valk should too, yeah?

 

I mean it's not like she's supposed to be the tankiest frame in the game or anything.

No. "if mesa can get"- NO. Mesa should NOT get. Mesa should NOT have that skill. That skill is even more OP than hysteria is- since it lets you keep your guns.

 

I smell sarcasm- valkyr ISNT supposed to be the tankiest frame in the game. She is not a tank. She's a BERSERKER. People TREAT her like a tank because her hysteria makes her immortal. This is why it needs to change.

[OfficerBeepsky]

No. "if mesa can get"- NO. Mesa should NOT get. Mesa should NOT have that skill. That skill is even more OP than hysteria is- since it lets you keep your guns.

 

I smell sarcasm- valkyr ISNT supposed to be the tankiest frame in the game. She is not a tank. She's a BERSERKER. People TREAT her like a tank because her hysteria makes her immortal. This is why it needs to change.

Her 2 literally boosts the armor of her and her entire team.

 

How does that not, a tank frame, make.

[Stratego89]

 I have difficulty believeing the last sentence yof that post, to be honest...

 

 

There are enough downsides and counters to Hysteria to balance it, and as time passes they get more and more numerous. The one thing that makes it worth pressing 4 is the damage mitigation. Without it, Hysteria is WORTHLESS. A Warcry build blows it out of the water any day. Let's say we remove that damage mitigation. What do we have left? A pathetic excuse for an ult. A melee subpar in every way to regular melee. Damage, mobility, range... It sucks majorly. And even if it didn't, it would simply overlap with Warcry builds. I doubt any of the whiners know what balance means.

 

Instead of whining that Hysteria is "overpowered" (people need to stop using this term so liberally, seriously) and just asking for the devs to just break it, why not propose something worth the trade-off? Thus far I haven't seen anything in these forums that comes close to being a good solution. One that wouldn't be completely redundant with Warcry builds.

 

 

EDIT : It's also strange that people conveniently ignore Chroma and Trinity. They both easily achieve 99% reduction, while still being to fully use their weapons. I've seen tham at work in very high level content, and honestly if Hysteria is overpowered, then we should create a new word for these 2. Hell they can buff the whole team in the process! Just saying, food for thought...

Well too bad, because that last sentence is without a doubt true.

 

This is wrong in so many ways. Firstly- hysteria's damage is through the roof. Secondly it has INNATE LIFESTEAL. Moving on- "a melee subpar in every way to normal melee. Damage, mobility, range...". Again- the damage is insane. Also- this is WHY I JUST SUGGESTED that it give you a movement speed buff when you use hysteria as one of the changes- and yet you brushed me off and immediately afterwards said her movement in hysteria is an issue. As for range- her hysteria takes mods into account now. With primed reach the range is GREAT. If you have an issue with the range, mod for it. That's what mods are for.

 

People don't want DE to break it- they want DE to FIX it. "Why not propose something worth the trade off"- I JUST DID. You REPLIED to my comment in this SAME response- and again are brushing me off. You need to get off your high horse and actually read what people are saying instead of reading half-heartedly through it and pretending like you actually read it properly before making comments like this.

 

Chroma and Trinity have a trade off. They have to take serious damage- suicidal amounts- to achieve that damage reduction. Chroma is a brawler/fighter/tank combo. Trinity is a healer/magetank. Valkyr is a BERSERKER. Berserkers don't TANK damage- they take a lot of damage while stealing it back by fighting nonstop. They are an instrument of chaos and destruction- not a giant healthbar.

[Stratego89]

Her 2 literally boosts the armor of her and her entire team.

 

How does that not, a tank frame, make.

Unless you already have a TON of armor- that buff barely matters. She's not a tank, she's a berserker. Warcry buffs her armor to a point that lets her take a lot of damage as she runs in with melee (which is why it buffs the melee speed as well). Even with full armored agility + steel fiber + power warcry, late game enemies are going to RIP HER TO SHREDS if she stays too still and doesn't keep killing them fast enough. She doesn't have shields. Tank have lots of shields and armor in combination to prevent damage/absorb damage in the first place. She doesn't prevent damage to her health entirely in the first place, she only lowers it enough to make it bearable and allow her to get through each conflict without dying.

[IfritKajiTora]

Guys chill out. What ever you say, she is OverPowered, say what ever you want, but she is OP. Immortality need to go.

[TheBrsrkr]

The opening paragraph of this thread demonstrates that the OP has no intention of discussing this matter. Statements that cannot be discussed are opinions.

K.

[TheBrsrkr]

Trinity granting the party infnite energy, refilling/overcharging shields and turning them nigh invincible while also letting them keep their guns: Ok.

Valkyr making herself invincible, limiting herself to melee and risking death upon detactivation of ability: Not ok.

I don't follow the logic of some people.

No one says it's okay, but I dare you to go make a "nerf Trinity" thread. No, seriously. Make one. I did. It didn't last long.

[RealPandemonium]

If Hysteria deactivates with enemies within 10 meters, you take 7.5% of the damage you would have taken outside of hysteria. That's what that counter is, and once that starts getting high because the damage enemies are dealing is starting to scale absurdly high? If you screw up and bump into a nullie? You're dead.

So, bullet jump to safety and then just toggle on and off whenever it gets too high.  That's hardly a limitation, given the millions of damage you can put out with those claws and complete damage immunity.  

[Crewell]

Seeing as nulifier shields knock you out of Hysteria, there isn't really an issue at higher levels/time in survival. There probably is an issue with her energy drain rate though. I've seen my energy go up instead of down with Hysteria active, and I wasn't picking up energy orbs either. I think if they double the energy drain rate, that would balance the power a lot.

[DelialFallen]

No. "if mesa can get"- NO. Mesa should NOT get. Mesa should NOT have that skill. That skill is even more OP than hysteria is- since it lets you keep your guns.

 

I smell sarcasm- valkyr ISNT supposed to be the tankiest frame in the game. She is not a tank. She's a BERSERKER. People TREAT her like a tank because her hysteria makes her immortal. This is why it needs to change.

 

I'm not sure how or why a berserker cannot be a tank of why Valkyr isn't supposed to be the tankiest frame in the game or just what the arguments you've given are or where they've come from.

 

If you disagree with something, state why and how, don't just pull nonsense from nothing as if it proves a point please.

Edited October 10, 2015 by DelialFallen

[DelialFallen]

Valkyr in her current state is fine. She was practically useless in the party pre-buff, and now that she's finally competitive as an endgame frame, people are screaming for nerfs.

 

-snip-

 

That way, narrow minded no longer has a double benefit on it. As it stands now, the skill is in a good place in her kit.

 

Edit: And to anyone who wants to claim that the invulnerability should be completely removed, this is a friendly reminder that mesa gets 95% damage reduction from shatter shield, Valkyr needs something tankier than that or else her entire theme is broken.

 

Invincibility is a very strong power to have, some may argue it is the strongest power of all.  Therefore, I suggest you change your title to reflect the idea that the Valkyr warframe is arguably not overpowered, considering her current state rather than having a topic pointing at Hysteria only to go on detailing your views regarding the frame.

 

Now then.  I'm not convinced there isn't a place for invulnerability in the game, or that it needs to be changed in favor of damage reduction.  As it stands, it does not appear to break gameplay, void difficulty, or render other powers and abilities moot.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Staying invincible for 15+ minutes straight is OP no matter how you look at it. When compared to Trinity it's not very accurate, because Trinity needs a pretty dedicated build with some high level mods, and preferably some self damaging weapon on hand to do it right. It's also very easy to screw up once and die. You also need to recast it every 20-30 seconds. It's also not a complete invulnerability, so later on you still getting hurt quite a bit. With new Valkyr you just activate it once and run around invincible for 15+ minutes with crazy damage.

 

I have two suggestions on how to fix it:

 

1) Remove invincibility and give Valkyr 90% damage reduction (on top of her armor) affected by Strength (caps at 99% like Trinity's Blessing). Leave everything else the same, although maybe remove the damage on deactivation thing.

 

2) Valkyr recieves damage normally, but her health can't go below 5. When you're at 5 health energy drain increases. This way you will still be able to run around invincible, but you'll have to watch out for damage and use it more strategically, since you'll run out of energy much faster if you just tank mindlessly. Also you'll have to pick the right moment to end Hysteria, so you don't end up in the middle of a crowd with 5 HP.

Edited October 10, 2015 by (PS4)Gaelic-_-Flame

[Ronyn]

 

If Hysteria deactivates with enemies within 10 meters, you take 7.5% of the damage you would have taken outside of hysteria. That's what that counter is, and once that starts getting high because the damage enemies are dealing is starting to scale absurdly high? If you screw up

 

That's the balance. If you screw up, you're dead. 

If she can actually take significant damage from this....sure. As long as there is an inherent penalty for making a mistake that can result in damage taken it is not true invulnerability. It's more like delayed/deferred damage in that case.

But that is a big if so far. 

There are times where I played her really poorly on purpose to see if I could get a decent chunk of damage reflected back on me. Half the time I can't seem to run out of energy and the other half of the time I don't seem to take any real damage back.

Is it bugged or something?

 

Also-

 

Trinity can make the entire party invincible, and have them never run out of energy too.

Chroma can make himself invincible, while also giving himself like, 500% extra damage to all his weapons.

The words invincible and invulnerable are not synonyms. Neither Chroma nor Trinity can make themselves invulnerable. 

We can go ahead and discuss whether they are too strong or just strong enough..etc.

But do not confuse the words here.

 

 

a friendly reminder that mesa gets 95% damage reduction from shatter shield, Valkyr needs something tankier than that or else her entire theme is broken.

Mesa has 95 percent reduction from projectiles, It offers no protection from melee, nearby aoe or damaging clouds.

Even if valkyr just had 95 damage reduction against every source it would mean she is tankier than Mesa.

 

I mean it's not like she's supposed to be the tankiest frame in the game or anything.

We don't know that Valkyr is supposed to be the tankiest frame in the game.

maybe, maybe not... it's never stated by DE.

 

Her kit revolves around her ult.-- So naturally, her ult is going to be the best thing she has, since her entire concept, revolves around using that ult effectively.

Doesn't mean her ult has to include literal invulnerability. It would still do most of what it does now with something like high dr.

Only the margin for error and penalty for mistakes would be more evident.

 

 

She's not a tank, she's a berserker. 

She can be both. Berzerkers are sometimes made to be tanks in fiction, sometimes not.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Ronyn