Autongnosis Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Because 3 things is the least superficial yet the most diversity people's brains can handle. It took me MONTHS to find out New Loka was the Syndicate to roll with.Bad example imho. Syndicates are, because of a nimber of reasons the first being they are very shallow at present, a coalescence of clichées. They are to be honest the only true walking clichées in this game, everything else has at least a bit of flavour added.New Loka is one of the worst in that respect, the eugenetics sect that nehaves like a religion and act like they're the chosen ones to carry out the "purification of the race" (read: purge of everything that isn't "us" or isn't what the "us" decided to be pure) through means that couldn't be less pure (infested ancient eximi wat). That and Red Veil are serious offenders for a walking clichée competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanHydroho Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I don't think WR is or is becoming a cliche. It's definitely inspired from other games, as I believe even the developers admit so. A good game doesn't have to be something original from A to Z, 'cause let's face it, that's kinda hard today, when the gaming industry evolved so much. Most of the games released, commercial or non-commercial, are inspired at least about 60% from games that were before them. What really counts is to learn from the past productions and manage to deliver something new, with a good story line, 'cause there's no need to always reinvent the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Institute-Marksman Posted November 2, 2015 Author Share Posted November 2, 2015 Bad example imho. Syndicates are, because of a nimber of reasons the first being they are very shallow at present, a coalescence of clichées. They are to be honest the only true walking clichées in this game, everything else has at least a bit of flavour added. New Loka is one of the worst in that respect, the eugenetics sect that nehaves like a religion and act like they're the chosen ones to carry out the "purification of the race" (read: purge of everything that isn't "us" or isn't what the "us" decided to be pure) through means that couldn't be less pure (infested ancient eximi wat). That and Red Veil are serious offenders for a walking clichée competition. Kindof agree with you there. They're quite superficial, but at least not cliché at Corpus or Grineer level. What really counts is to learn from the past productions and manage to deliver something new, with a good story line, 'cause there's no need to always reinvent the wheel. What if you could fly, though. That'd be neat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traybong111 Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) That's not the point. Original, in this case, means 'something that hasn't been thought of before'. Easier said than done, especially in a medium like game where players' experiences are arguably more important than any auteurist intent, at least for now. Just because an idea hasn't been done or it's arguably new doesn't mean its addition will always make a better game. Edited November 2, 2015 by traybong111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agentawesome Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 That's not the point. Original, in this case, means 'something that hasn't been thought of before'. As said in the first line, Everything that needs to be said has been said. The amount of ingenuity and genius required to create something which surpasses the minds of the few billions of humans which have existed in the last thousands of years is improbable. We can see ourselves that the gap between scientific and mathematical breakthroughs are few and far between. This ties very closely to the artistic and conceptual thinking of the human mind, as we can see that humans evolve to the need of their curiosity and understanding of the world, for example the use of proper perspective has never been needed in art until the foundations of mathematics and geometry were made. ' Some thing that has never been thought before' is a very large request for regular humans, since throughout a modern human's life time, we only experience things we already exist, or things which we can say, are not original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBeeBrain Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 A famous quote on originality: “Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.” ― Andre Gide This. There is almost nothing in this world that hasn't already been thought of; music sounds alike, movies are similar, games sometimes have similar stories. There's nothing you can do about it, but put your own twists and turns into the story you've created to make it something unique. Storytelling is key. Why do you think the zombie genre is so popular? You'd think it'd be played out after the thousands of movies and games and books we have on that one subject, but somehow it always manages to become relevant. You can give the same basic formula for a plot to 5 different people and you will be given 5 different stories in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatersail Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) You forgot - Aliens vs Predator and yea somebody mentioned star-craft Aliens - flood / infested / zerg Marines - Marines / Grineer / marines Predator - Covenant / Corpus / Protoss I think pretty much all games do this as it gives different play-styles to work with I wonder what the earliest incarnation of this was? Lord of the rings? Orcs Humans Elves ????? Edited November 2, 2015 by Tatersail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paragasu Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I don't know any sci-fi thing that is 100% new and refreshing, well maybe it is because without that cliche aspect of it t will be like a vampire movie without the vampire which as a result will make vampire movies fan rage endlessly XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agentawesome Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 You forgot - Aliens vs Predator and yea somebody mentioned star-craft Aliens - flood / infested / zerg Marines - Marines / Grineer / marines Predator - Covenant / Corpus / Protoss I think pretty much all games do this as it gives different play-styles to work with I wonder what the earliest incarnation of this was? Lord of the rings? Orcs Humans Elves ????? I believe one of the oldest existing pieces of literature was Beowulf by John Green. I believe it does mention things like Orcs and Elves in the book, so if anything could be an original, its that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanHydroho Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Personally I won't mind to see something resembling a pair of lightsabers in the game :)))) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kihana Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) I mean 'any good' scifi game has a militaristic crude faction hellbent on destroying anything that's not themselves. Sentients, as I expect them to come. The Orokin before them (whom I expect to return). Then theres the crazy techno-people who like to spend 'a little too much' time with technology. Corpus, as they are right now. Even the Grineer could be considered to meet this stereotype. And let's not forget about the animalistic zombie-esque faction that's just out there to kill anything. I'm glad you didn't leave out our beloved infested. Edited November 2, 2015 by Kihana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Orokin are not like protheans or forerunners. They are more like Leviathans or precursors that built something to kill themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerishedFraud Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Clearly we play warframe for the rich lore and storyline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PookieNumnums Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 While some of the intellectual aspects may become cliche it's the mechanics I'm worried about. This whole proposed weapons getting stronger with rank fix to mandatory mods is a terrible decision. Dumbing down parkour so that players on controllers or without mouse thumb buttons could 'compete' with those that do in pve setting... Also a terrible decision. The game mechanics are gradually becoming GENERIC What has made warframe stand out is slowly being removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tostov Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 That's because those are the three big fears.Others (The empire), yourself (The greedy) and the Environment (The wild). Well not really, but you can see how well rule of threes works. Orcs, Dwarves, Elves is another trio. It's just a really common trope.Regardless, as you've noted, it's exceptionally common because of the nature of writing anything. Being creative isn't specifically hard, but being original is. Warframe does it mainly via its asthetic, using very organic and flowing shapes against highly ordered shapes. Good fiction is rooted in expectations to allow a viewer to make connections and immerse themselves, before you bombard them with complex ideas. That's why preconceptions exist. As people earlier in the thread have noted though, practically everything has been done. You just weren't there to read it. Like seriously, go ahead, give us an example of a race that isn't overdone at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheeseHasLeafs Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I believe one of the oldest existing pieces of literature was Beowulf by John Green. Uh. Beowulf was written by John Green? That's news to me, if it's the Beowulf I'm thinking of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanHydroho Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Is Vay Hek some sort of a borg queen ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 These are tropes that extend outside of just sci fi, though. alien disease consuming everything - undead tech people - replace tech with magic, elves militarized dudes - typically your humans or dwarves. It's not just cliche' scifi, it's classic storytelling. NOTHING is original anymore, there's no single idea in THE WORLD that is truly unique - all we can do is mix and match other elements together to try and create something new. The military guys are now clones, the tech people are the last descendants of the precursor race, the alien disease consuming everything can ALSO consume robots. We can push for things to be more unique, but some tropes will always remain. Still: Tenno for Posthuman evolution, am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanHydroho Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 These are tropes that extend outside of just sci fi, though. alien disease consuming everything - undead tech people - replace tech with magic, elves militarized dudes - typically your humans or dwarves. It's not just cliche' scifi, it's classic storytelling. NOTHING is original anymore, there's no single idea in THE WORLD that is truly unique - all we can do is mix and match other elements together to try and create something new. The military guys are now clones, the tech people are the last descendants of the precursor race, the alien disease consuming everything can ALSO consume robots. We can push for things to be more unique, but some tropes will always remain. Still: Tenno for Posthuman evolution, am I right? True. But even in how games are made almost everything has been done before. Basically the only thing that improves over the years resumes to them being more and more realistic. These days you can rarely hear about a game that managed a major breakthrough, like it was 15 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Date_Terumune Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 And why is that a problem? you play the game, you enjoy it. To make something original today its imposible, every idea is already taken. It always ends on criticsm but if such person is asked to make a original game-plan, they do get silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSING Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Ok, I see where all of you theory people are going, but when you take a step back and realize that you're comparing the corpus to elves, I see enough of a difference to think that DE is not being uncreative.It's also not just the theory but how it looks like. I have not seen any art style resembling Warframe's, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who was drawn to the game by that.Also, if what you say is true then we've been on this cliche since we started, we're not "becoming" one. It's an interesting discussion, but I agree with the guy who said that you're stripping everything down to a basic concept. Come on, let's be real, there aren't a lot of good basic concepts out there, so of course they overlap. It's not the basic concept, it really is the details behind them. Edited November 2, 2015 by ROSING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babellon Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Most every game on the market today is in some way a 'clone' of multiple other games. Play any one rpg ever and by comparison you've played them all. Play any one shooter and by comparison you've played every shooter. That is the nature of games. what makes each game different is the way in which you experience the world, the story if any, the community in regards to massive multiplayer. I love Far Cry, I think its one of the best shooters i've seen, but I can't parkour in it. I loved star wars galaxies for its piloting, and while Im a fan of star wars I don't enjoy star wars the old republic even though both are star wars games, both have jedi, troopers, agents, and other classes. we will always find similarities in games we play if we play enough of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanHydroho Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 It's also not just the theory but how it looks like. I have not seen any art style resembling Warframe's, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who was drawn to the game by that. +1 for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple_cabbage Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 We're always inspired by something else we've experienced. I think it's basically impossible to create art that resembles none other in our universe At the end of the day, this is a game not a book or film, gameplay would always get the lion's share of any development budget. If you want originality, look there... And de has done an awesome job in this department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeejayPwny Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Clearly we play warframe for the rich lore and storyline. Beyond the ever solidifying gameplay, yes. I do Warframe has the basic building blocks to create a grand story, and already has plenty of mystery and intrigue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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