Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[Abenoki]

I havent really used her much user, but she's def lost some damage but gained a more involved and variety Play style. She's no longer just a nuke and my favorite ability of hers, Spores, is better than it use to be.

[djternan]

I can agree to this, related to the OP. However, instead of 5 energy per hit, have it increase the chance of an energy orb dropping from an enemy instead.

 

I thought about that but then it requires you to kill that enemy right away.  You want to have energy to use Miasma to get that kill or to use Molt so I'd prefer to just gain energy for spores popped.

[jwya]

So the concept is similar to how world on fire changed from fixed duration to toggle? Coz it sounds good but when u consider the high current energy expenditure on different grounds, toggle would suck you dry quickly without leaving some emergency energy to cast a molt/ life strike etc. Unless energy usage gets buffed :>

[Rankii]

"My first line of advice before we begin: Stop focusing on Miasma. It's taken a small hit to efficiency but it wasn't necessary before, and it (certainly) isn't necessary now."

You could have said the same thing about venom and contagion before the nerf. Also I like how their justification with the removal of coptering was that it limited players to certain weapons to be effective, but now this rework limits saryn players to certain weapons.

BRAVO, DE.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Rankii

[djternan]

Molt may leave some bits of itself on saryn which boost her armor/health/takes damage like rhino's armor/...

 

the porbleme I'm facing is agaisnt lvl 60+ corpus/grineer I'm shot down Before I come up close. Once I'm close, the fight is fair.

 

molt helps but at level 70+ it's uneffective

 

I don't really like the idea of Molt being an armor ability instead of a decoy ability.  I thought that if molt had an invulnerability period and/or scaled with armor and health mods along with the Quick Thinking type of effect mentioned in the OP that Molt could be used to significantly increase survivability while still keeping it as a decoy ability.

[RHuckebein]

 

A 2 second Venom didn't really allow for effective spore distribution and didn't have guaranteed procs, either.  Using spore, I was able to reliably spread Viral status to the entirety of Draco, from end to end, with one cast of Spore that cost me 6.25 energy.  A 2 second Venom could not have done that remotely reliably. 

 

Out of curiosity, what mechanism were you using to spread Viral procs with a 2 second Venom?

 

I didn't spread viral with a two-second venom, I never went to 12.5% duration.  I only have one fleeting expertise so I kept it at 4 pips, and at 23% duration old venom was closer to 4 seconds.  And since I was normally using saryn in the void I'd put continuity on to get 53% duration which was closer to 8 seconds, which was more than enough time to sweep my pyrana across a group of void enemies and have them all viral'd and kept miasma damage high enough to clear chaff for a while.  If I was really worried about duration I'd use primed continuity to get 12 second venom, which was more time than Spore has now, even, since modding into duration is still bad.

 

I didn't bother with venom in draco, I just jumped around one-shotting all of the non-eximus units and most of the eximus with miasma.  Saryn wasn't even that great in Draco by the end though, I'd just use Equinox instead since she nuked basically the entire map at once.

Edited November 6, 2015 by RHuckebein

[DSMatticus]

Can confirm this basically explodes entire waves in a few shots. Any explosion weapon works but the sonicor definitely feels the best. :P Torid and Ignis are a lot of fun too and all three seem to be pretty damn effective when it comes to spreading spores on a big scale.

If you are destroying entire waves with spores and a few shots from the sonicor, then you are not doing anything difficult. The spore damage is abysmal; this strategy "works" (insofar as it works at all) by popping hundreds of spores (at least, on paper - the practical rate seems to be much slower) per second. If you can't pull that off, then you're not really doing appreciable damage through spore-chaining. If you can pull that off, you're probably still not doing as much damage as just shooting things in the face with a shotgun. It's hikou P + concealed explosives or bust, really. Spraying wildly with ignis works okay if they're clustered enough, but it's all about the fire rate, and the sonicor doesn't have it.

[-MuiJlism-]

I was able to kill level 45s in the Sim without modding her with easy and only used her powers, I'm calling it a buff.

[Petersheikah]

Lolno.  Spore is reliable and easy to spread (except with some weapons; remember to report bugs!) Molt has new synergy with Miasma and Spore, Toxic Lash offers a significant damage increase and an added defensive bonus in melee mode, and Miasma can be boosted with a single cast of Spore and some Ignis spam.  I won't deny that Ignis makes Miasma much more efficient, but a dedicated melee user can use Toxic Lash to be almost as effective, with any melee weapon.  Thrown melee is especially effective, and a sentinel modded for Toxin/Gas procs (Gas/Electric Vulklok, anyone?) can also help set up maxcase Miasmas.  

 

Let's see, this are Saryn's abilities used without Miasma:

-Spore is easy to spread, but the damage is insignificant. It's just used to boost Miasma's damage.

 

-Toxic Lash is a melee ability, but they reduced Saryn's health. It's harder to get close to the enemy at higher levels.

 

-Molt would be even good if it didn't die before we can even cast Spore. The augment is the only useful thing of the ability. It's utility is basically to set up procs to boost Miasma's damage. 

 

See what I mean when I say that all her skills are made just to increase Miasma's damage? It's not like she has 4 abilities, it almost looks like she has one, but she needs to spend lots of energy to use it.

[Varzy]

Miasma should proc corrosion on the first tick, meaning the remaining ticks deal more damage.

 

It should also get a buff to it's range, and linger in the area for the initial duration to affect any more enemies that approach the area (like MPrime lingers). Potentially, it could work like MPrime - starting at 15 meters and expanding during the duration to 20ish, giving you a little extra time to proc new enemies.

 

Molt should definitely get the Snow Globe 4-second damage absorb treatment.

 

And I like the idea of Toxic Lash giving some energy or a chance to drop an energy orb when you pop the spore.

[SanguineSavant]

Her efficiency is definitely a factor. I'm pretty mobile so I've not encountered too much stress in terms of survivability, especially with the use of regenerative molt but if it helps players who have a different approach, sure why not (I should also mention I use Mogamu's build except I trade out Quick Thinking in place of Streamline because well...638 energy, I got energy siphon, so yeah).

You know I was actually considering what was getting people so ate up about Saryn and honestly I think it was the following: At first I was confused, I was petrified I didn't understand why there was a lack of skill chainers by my side - and couldn't help but wonder if possibly it's that her ultimate doesn't come across as an ultimate. It's more like a sort of AoE flat finisher and in some regard I can understand why some folks might feel like having an ultimate that doesn't make you feel...I don't know...'RRRAGGGHHH' is sort of diminishing. Obviously the numbers and practice tell a different story but I can see why some might feel like they want more bang from their buck for chaining it in. Then again, take the concept of poison as being the subtle killer - maybe it's more thematic and works this way.

[Dobermann92]

Reduce energy cost on her abilities. Revert HP nerf. Improve her armor. Double her ability range. Problem solve. Optional thing would be to make Miasma have a 100% corrosive proc on cast, it would be non-stackable of course (-25% enemy armor) casting another Miasma on the same target would reset proc duration and deal another stun and DoT.

^This

I agree with you, +1

[Varzy]

Miasma should proc corrosion on the first tick, meaning the remaining ticks deal more damage. Furthur ticks could also have a low chance to proc corrosion again, making Miasma a powerful armor stripping ability at high levels.

 

It should also get a buff to its range, and linger in the area for the initial duration to affect any more enemies that approach the area (like MPrime lingers). Potentially, it could work like MPrime - starting at 15 meters and expanding during the duration to 20ish, giving you a little extra time to proc new enemies.

 

Molt should definitely get the Snow Globe 4-second damage absorb treatment.

 

Toxic Lash should be a team buff! I also like the idea of Toxic Lash giving some energy or an increased chance to drop a health or energy orb when you pop the spore/kill a spored enemy with TL. This would make her an excellent team player.

[Machayna]

I didn't play Saryn much before.  I guess I can see why people who were used to old miasma were up in arms.  I didn't really play her much before because my personal taste is that I don't like room clearing nukes.  That being said I am loving this new rework except for one thing.  Energy drain.  Tactical potato just put out a video mentioning the same thing.  DKDiamantes mentions it in his video as well.  In those endless missions where you're having to use your skills a fair bit and especially as the level of the enemy starts creeping up you end up needing to use miasma more. At earlier levels using spore plus toxic lash is plenty to kill most everything that comes at you.  So you basically keep that rolling as you go.  Or you can use the molt  + spores if you don't want to melee.  To get the full damage out of her when the enemies get higher though you need to combo your skills and get your statuses spread.  I'm fine with that but any way you look at it you're using 2-3 skills to do that and those things need to keep being reapplied as the groups of enemies get bigger and the enemies get tougher.

 

Long story short I think the rework is good but something needs to be done about her efficiency.  That's just an opinion but it's one I've been hearing more of and I agree.  Lowering the cost of her skills would help, maybe give her faster energy regen passive, maybe give her more energy back per orb picked up.....something.  Or come out with a mod like fleeting expertise that effects a different stat on the negative side that isn't duration.  If it's a mod fix then it can't be something that's in Baro Kiteers rotation.  This has to be something that can be attained more than once a year.  I've been playing for months now and I have yet to see primed flow or continuity sold by him.

 

Anyway.  Great rework and I think it will be better with some mitigation for efficiency so that you don't have to take such a huge hit to duration.  Skin looks great.  Thanks for all the hard work.

[Rankii]

"It's just press 4 to win", said the player on mercury.

Meanwhile Excalibur and Valkyr laugh; they press 4 AND E, so nobody is the wiser. Poor nekros doesn't even get a press4, he presses 3 and still needs other players to actually do the hard work for him.

[Cleesus]

I want to clarify that the "Reb said everyone uses regen molt,and thats why they decided to nerf her stats around the optional augument mod" statement is false.

 

A lot of people seemed to have either misunderstood her saying she uses Regen Molt or simply made up that claim. I checked in with her and other DE employees just to make sure and they have all said that statement is false.

 

Please do not spread or create rumors to rile up the community, thank you!

[Arghastar]

So the concept is similar to how world on fire changed from fixed duration to toggle? Coz it sounds good but when u consider the high current energy expenditure on different grounds, toggle would suck you dry quickly without leaving some emergency energy to cast a molt/ life strike etc. Unless energy usage gets buffed :>

actually, Saryn have Molt's augment + Rage. 

[Easymac]

I believe the rework is in the right direction. Before, her only used skills were Miasma to nuke/stun, and molt to heal/decoy.

I like how the rework makes all her abilities viable. There's just a few problems.

She's far less tanky (thanks to the health buff nerf) and in order to utilize her melee, you need to get close. The small armor buff isn't enough to mitigate the damage she use to beable to tank. Further more, her regenerative molt isn't as useful now, since the duration increases the time it takes to heal.

That being said.

 

Spores: I think its perfect as is. Does moderate damage. Instant proc of viral. Spreads other status effects to enemies when spores explode. And the best part about the rework, it spreads upon death.

I think this is a great skill now, and no need to change at all.

 

Molt: I feel she lost a lot of her survivability, and since Saryn was "supposedly"  a "tankier frame" yet has no tank capability anymore, a slight change to molt. Mesa is a squishy frame, but she has Shatter shield, that reduces, and reflects incoming damage. I'm not saying, change Molt into shatter shield, Im suggesting...

Since Molt is "shedding" her skin, why not have it dual cast. 

1st cast: Prepares the skin to be shed, effectively giving her a "layer" of skin around her body, reducing incoming damage by XX%, or absorbing damage by XX%. 

2nd cast: will "shed" the skin, and it will act like a decoy (like it is now) and last for the duration of the skill.

The duration is the same, and if it were to explode while on you, it's properties still stay the same (still does damage, or explodes upon being destroyed) Also. Double the explosion radius(you'll see why)

 

Toxic Lash: It's also fine as is-ish. Why strictly melee? Why not add that toxin damage to primary and sedondary? I don't really care too much, the increase in damage, damage reduction, and duration has also made this skill fairly good.

 

Miasma Overgrown: Saryn is a plant based frame. Most people become confused and think she's a disease based frame. I believe her ult should release vines with thorns that spread through the ground (same radius as miasma). When vines touch enemies, they stun enemies for X seconds, snare them for x seconds (double the time of stun) and pop spores, and makes molt explode. Also does 100% Extra damage for toxin and viral procs. After the ability is casted, the vines erode but leave behind their thorns (for x seconds) that slow, and inflict toxin proc on enemies. (similar to tar moa)

 

 

This brings back her tankiness, keeps the skill synergy alive, and reminds people she's a plant frame, not a disease frame.

 

Current miasma stuns for 3 seconds, so the vines would stun for 3 seconds, and keep them snared another 3 seconds. he thorns would have the same effect as the Tar Moa, but in the form of a plant, rather then goo.


TL;DR : Keep spore as is, have molt give her the ability to get close range, keep toxic lash as is, change miasma to be plant based attack.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Easymac

[czdj117]

I didn't play Saryn much before.  I guess I can see why people who were used to old miasma were up in arms.  I didn't really play her much before because my personal taste is that I don't like room clearing nukes.  That being said I am loving this new rework except for one thing.  Energy drain.  Tactical potato just put out a video mentioning the same thing.  DKDiamantes mentions it in his video as well.  In those endless missions where you're having to use your skills a fair bit and especially as the level of the enemy starts creeping up you end up needing to use miasma more. At earlier levels using spore plus toxic lash is plenty to kill most everything that comes at you.  So you basically keep that rolling as you go.  Or you can use the molt  + spores if you don't want to melee.  To get the full damage out of her when the enemies get higher though you need to combo your skills and get your statuses spread.  I'm fine with that but any way you look at it you're using 2-3 skills to do that and those things need to keep being reapplied as the groups of enemies get bigger and the enemies get tougher.

 

Long story short I think the rework is good but something needs to be done about her efficiency.  That's just an opinion but it's one I've been hearing more of and I agree.  Lowering the cost of her skills would help, maybe give her faster energy regen passive, maybe give her more energy back per orb picked up.....something.  Or come out with a mod like fleeting expertise that effects a different stat on the negative side that isn't duration.  If it's a mod fix then it can't be something that's in Baro Kiteers rotation.  This has to be something that can be attained more than once a year.  I've been playing for months now and I have yet to see primed flow or continuity sold by him.

 

Anyway.  Great rework and I think it will be better with some mitigation for efficiency so that you don't have to take such a huge hit to duration.  Skin looks great.  Thanks for all the hard work.

 

???

[Rankii]

I want to clarify that the "Reb said everyone uses regen molt,and thats why they decided to nerf her stats around the optional augument mod" statement is false.

 

A lot of people seemed to have either misunderstood her saying she uses Regen Molt or simply made up that claim. I checked in with her and other DE employees just to make sure and they have all said that statement is false.

 

Please do not spread or create rumors to rile up the community, thank you!

Well saryn players need to do some sort of spreading, since damage isn't an option anymore.

[Keltik0ne]

She's pretty much the same, it takes slightly longer to set up the damage but she does a bit more damage to compensate.

 

Not really as good as others, but at least she's not Mag.

[Cleesus]

Well saryn players need to do some sort of spreading, since damage isn't an option anymore.

Well spread joy, not rumors :D

[czdj117]

Saryn is now well out of the game

[Sonicbullitt]

Couldn't just use the mega thread for this?

I intend for people to see this, not get buried under a bunch of posts

 

Oh synergy is there alright.

Her Molt is now 100% more useful than just a free heal and door stopper. It actually does decent damage together with Spore, even when I did not trigger Miasma on them. 

Toxic Lash still remains lack lustre as a self buff ability compared to others, but I used it with a high attack speed weapon (Surprise surprise Dual Zoren, which everyone is complaining about the skin for) and got some really weird kick when I'm just shredding Bombards with a Zoren. 

 

All she needs is some QoL, and she will be the most fun frame (for some) that DE ever released for awhile. Aside from Atlas. Ragdolling is hella fun.

 

 

PS:  "While I like the rework I also don't like it"    Posts need to stop period

 

Her synergy is there yes, but she depends on it too heavily, her synergy should be a bonus not a reliance. But yes I too think toxic lash is still too niche of a skill to be useful, now if we could use it with guns too that might change things. I like the synergy with spore and molt that was a welcome change but besides these two her other kind of two suck. Over all though I agree with you, if she got a bit more tweaks, especially to energy cost she could be so much better, right now though she is kind of lacklustre.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Sonicbullitt

[Rankii]

Well spread joy, not rumors :D

Saryn is dead, and along with her joy of effective venomancy.

 

To be a bit clearer about the reason for overall bitter receival of this rework, is because it killed ALL of my builds. My low-duration build was hit the hardest since miasma is now dependant (not synergistic, someone please buy DE a dictionary) on two other skills and all four modding stats.

 

But my Melee build was hurt too, since It's harder to wade into melee when my health took a hit.

 

And my "Gingerbread Man" (AKA "run around and spam molt with torid) build was hit by the health change and change to molt.

 

my sayrn is a paperweight.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Rankii