Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[Vecsar]

Saryin is powerful and I love the synergy.

 

The overwhelming problem is energy.

 

You should not need to run with a Trinity

You should not be required to have prime mods to be viable.

You should not have to rely on Energy restores.

 

What about this.

 

Right now on frames like Atlas. You get a diminished ability cost when you spam your first ability combo. What about extending that to other combos.

 

On Saryin you can empower Miasma in two ways that I have observed to be effective:

 

Cast Molt, put spores on molt, pop miasma. (favors ranged play)

Cast toxic lash, put spores on enemy, strike them and cast Miasma (favors mele play)

 

But giving these combos the ability to have a diminished cost if cast within a small window would IMO fix the energy problem without a need to mod in such a way as to grind your duration into the dust.

 

I am not an expert by any means. I have tried to mod Saryn many different ways but I always come back to this. The energy cost of the set up is too much. I have never used miasma as a 4 to win nuke. It has always been my get out of jail card when I get in a bad spot.

 

I don't know, just what I am seeing.

[GhostLacuna]

Welcome to every other damage skill in the game.

 

You've been enjoying too much damage with Saryn.  Now that she's been rebalanced, its time to wait for Scott's damage pass.

 

because of enemy armor scaling yes.

 

Please test the difference between level 40 and level 70 enemies.

 

The only ones i seen who have hailed the change and say Saryn deal massive amount of damage has faced enemies sub level 70.

 

FFS aggp and his Miasma its his video "Miasma its this simple" faced around 8 enemies on Ceres.

 

Now i doubt that was a survival mission and as such he faced enemies level 31-47

 

the enemy armor formula is Armor = Base Armor × (1 + ((Current Level − Base Level)^1.75 ÷ 200))

 

And since Miasma is no longer corrosive damage it will next to no damage what so ever to most units over level  70 just from the fact that enemy armor scaling is so extremely broken.

 

A heavy gunner has a minimum level of 8 so at level 30 their armor has already scaled 22 times.

 

by level 70 it has scaled 62 times. A scaling increase of 40 times!

 

Where are the videos of all the champions of the new damage the dependent miasma deals that shows their damage against enemies  at level 70?

 

I sure as hell have not seen them.

 

Are DE going to balance all abilities around the Starchart and none endless missions now?

 

Because i can go 40 min in mercury on  survival and face level 44 exerimus and level 42 normal mobs.

 

that is a mission where the starting level of the enemy is 1.

 

molt lasted around 2 seconds.

 

When i did a survival on Apollodorus and left at the 38 mark due to this being solo and me running out of life support.

 

Never had time to setup Miasma.

 

Spore at least did something.

Edited November 7, 2015 by GhostLacuna

[rawr1254]

What she needs is a way to dmg the molt herself since health of molt when miasma is cast = more dmg for miasma. Also just btw another way to spread toxic+viral is spore>lash on spore. If the enemy has toxic with spore on them then the toxic is also spread with the spores.

[--Sensei--]

I would ask the same question to people like you.

Saryns revivisit is the first step into the right direction to balance this game without infinite enemy scaling.

 

 

 

And what nuke frames do we have now? Saryn was the last nuke frame. You only could count Equinox as nuke frame but her nuke needs time and damage to charge up.

 

 

Oh no there are frames that can kill faster then Saryn? Is this your argument, cause it is a stupid argument. Every frame needs a synergy like Ember and now Saryn. Frames that have 1 or maybe 2 skills that outshine are only used for this skill(s).

 

Ash alone does 9-13k per hit not accounting the bleed tick procs that can total up to 22k.

 

Ash with Excal Radiant finisher augment deals 41k-100k per enemy not even accounting bleed tick procs.

 

Ash with any frame such as Mirage/Rhino/Nova will do better, so really Ash is the strongest nuke frame atm either alone or with party synergy.

[(PSN)twistedodean14]

Sigh, People lets call it for what it is. Saryn is nerfed, the rework is Meh, Tenno will always support everything DE does (even if it makes a frame or weapon less useful and less fun to use). When the rework hits consoles i will buy the new skins but i won't be using Saryn anymore. Also DE will always listen to the nerfers camp so this back and forth is pointless, so just take it as it is. Maybe when people all but stop using the frame DE will do the right thing.

Edited November 7, 2015 by (PS4)twistedodean14

[Vaxillian]

Sigh, People lets call it for what it is. Saryn is nerfed, the rework is Meh, Tenno will always support everything DE does (even if it makes a frame or weapon less useful and less fun to use). When the rework hits consoles i will buy the new skins but i won't be using Saryn anymore. Also DE will always listen to the nerfers camp so this back and forth is pointless, so just take it as it is. Maybe when people all but stop using the frame DE will do the write thing.

 

I don't see how this back in forth is pointless. It's including input as to why she is good or bad when you're the one who is saying your opinion is fact when it is not.

[RyanGo]

I think the difference between your scenario and XTerra (forgot his name) is the grouping.

 

He might have mis-addressed this, but as you said it may be that toxic procs only spread upon spore detonation. But if he ran this test with the enemies clustered together, he was likely detonating the other spores with his primed reach orthos which indeed was spreading more toxins.

 

He used bombards in his test which move around a lot less than heavy gunners.

[RyanGo]

Sigh, People lets call it for what it is. Saryn is nerfed, the rework is Meh, Tenno will always support everything DE does (even if it makes a frame or weapon less useful and less fun to use). 

You haven't actually tried it and maybe it isn't your style of play anyway, but personally I find Saryn's rework to be a lot of fun. Buff or Nerf, to me it was a buff to the fun factor.

 

Why don't you wait to see? It certainly rewards a more active playstyle more than the previous iteration of spore and toxic lash, but again if that's not your cup of tea sorry about it.

Edited November 7, 2015 by RyanGo

[evil_m3nace]

I would ask the same question to people like you.

Saryns revivisit is the first step into the right direction to balance this game without infinite enemy scaling.

 

we have absolutely no proof whatsoever that they will take out infinite scaling. you are talking as if this is a sure fire thing.

[XxCurtennoxX]

Really.. I could do 1h of solo T4 Surv with a rank 0 excalibur

That's a lie if i've ever seen one.

[Empiren]

Sure, other frames are preferrable. But it doesn't mean you can't leave the meta. Saryn is a decent option of you don't want to run with a standard "meta group" all the time. She's fun, so just don't follow the meta all the time.

You mean frost right?

 

Because frost now does everything saryn can do, better.

[(PSN)twistedodean14]

I don't see how this back in forth is pointless. It's including input as to why she is good or bad when you're the one who is saying your opinion is fact when it is not.

Did i say my opinion is fact? no. All i am do stating what i have notice on the forums And DE's changes. 

[XxCurtennoxX]

What she needs is a way to dmg the molt herself since health of molt when miasma is cast = more dmg for miasma. Also just btw another way to spread toxic+viral is spore>lash on spore. If the enemy has toxic with spore on them then the toxic is also spread with the spores.

Pretty sure i mentioned spreading toxin and viral in the OP xD

[-dicht.Amducias-]

That's a lie if i've ever seen one.

Synoid Simulor solos it for you and enemies wont even touch you, already did it without getting damaged

[-dicht.Amducias-]

Back to topic for saryn

Imo they should give miasma a 100% chance corrosive proc on every tic, fits the debuff style, logical since its corrosive damage and should corrode the armor, would be an insane help for her to become a good support in teams and helps her dmg together with viral and her dot from toxin

Edited November 7, 2015 by W4vE

[GhostLacuna]

Those that call the rework a great buff usually play her in melee range against tightly packed mobs or are using setups like conceled explosion on haku prime or gas ignis.

 

In these cases it works.

 

Now do the same in a t3 ext where the enemies are more spread out dont cluster up as much and attack you from range  and multiple angles.

 

Now spore is dramatically less effective and so is toxin lash.

 

I did a solo Test 38 min Apollodorus run  5 min ago. Molt lasted 2 seconds if i where lucky at the end.

 

Cute my little heal station lasted 2 seconds against level 42 trash mobs. AKA they destroyed it in that timeframe. Meaning it did nothing for crowd control nor did it hold aggro long enough to be of use.

 

Also healing from Regenerative Molt ends the instance Molt is destroyed. 

 

How do you intend to heal when you face a real threat? park molt where mobs cant target it?

 

Then you cant us it to spread spore.

 

Sure for this test i had 100% range but my spore chains where broken over and over just by the fact that enemies did not want to play ball and remained spread out enough that it only affected  those catch in the 16 meter radius.

 

I also ran this test with a none AOE weapon and boy did it dramatically weaken spore.

 

Didn't have time to setup Miasma due to Saryns complete lack of CC other then Miasma. I guess i could have gotten one of by ground slamming my orthos prime..

 

But i was busy dodging enemy fire so....

 

So far from all the various test runs i have done. In  various test runs this is what i found.

 

Spore works fine with tightly packed mobs, It gets less and less effective the more enemies stay apart.

 

Molt does not last even half as long as it should if you do anything beyond starchart levels and even then it wont last more then a couple of seconds.

 

Toxin lash still has the problem of being melee range but works well when combined with spore of tightly packed mobs.

 

if you face more spread out enemies its single target drawback starts to show. Not to mention that the forced melee is a Huge drawback on a Frame that lack any good CC option at all.

 

Miasma can deal decent damage against trash mobs and provide a very short stagger and some damage against threat targets.

 

the setup time unless in melee and the energy cost however makes it a very very niche power that see it self outclassed by far by a single cast of spore.

Edited November 7, 2015 by GhostLacuna

[Vaxillian]

People lets call it for what it is. Saryn is nerfed, the rework is Meh

 

 

Did i say my opinion is fact? no. All i am do stating what i have notice on the forums And DE's changes. 

 

You never may have said it was directly but you treated it as such. You haven't even played the frame rework and you're already making judgements about it.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Vaxillian

[(PSN)twistedodean14]

You haven't actually tried it and maybe it isn't your style of play anyway, but personally I find Saryn's rework to be a lot of fun. Buff or Nerf, to me it was a buff to the fun factor.

 

Why don't you wait to see? It certainly rewards a more active playstyle more than the previous iteration of spore and toxic lash, but again if that's not your cup of tea sorry about it.

I get what your saying, but when look at this rework from a build point of view its a nightmare. And i watched plenty of videos on the rework. Making duration a must for miasma is not a good idea because they nerfed it. rework is ok but they shouldn't have nerfed miasma. Before all you needed for miasma was power strength, power range and power efficiency. Now we have to add Power duration in the mix, as in its needed. 

[Vaxillian]

I get what your saying, but when look at this rework from a build point of view its a nightmare. And i watched plenty of videos on the rework. Making duration a must for miasma is not a good idea because they nerfed it. rework is ok but they shouldn't have nerfed miasma. Before all you needed for miasma was power strength, power range and power efficiency. Now we have to add Power duration in the mix, as in its needed. 

 

It's good that they took duration into account, it will increase build diversity whcih a game like Warframe needs desperately. And playing a frame is different than watching someone play it.

 

Miasma was OP and was the only reason people would play Saryn now with the rework it utilizes all other powers giving her a different approach. I've had absolutely no problem modding her anyways. Just put a Molt augment, max Vitality, and a Rage mod and you're good go. Besides, it cuts down on spamming powers which I personally see as a plus.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Vaxillian

[VoidNomade]

snip

 

And on which %range you were running..?

[Cubewano]

Because you need actual evidence to back up a point. I mean you no disrespect but that's just the way things are put together.

 

And not once did I ever mention it making her more fun, you mentioned that it did.

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

 

EDIT:

I see that you meant my original post and in which case that is just a side note and not to be part of why she is better as a whole. Just my opinion.

How do you expect anyone to interpret that if you don't provide it then? Your statement was that she was better because she was more playable (sorry if i misinterpreted this as fun, i see them as going hand in hand for most situations), and that it didn't matter if she was less or more effective in the process, so that's all I can take from it. 

 

And I'm still not seeing how my offering ideas on how to improve Saryn would do anything for this conversation, let alone prove how she is worse. Though I do apologize for jumping the gun on your stance, I just assumed you being impartial on her effectiveness meant you were able to see clearly, and that Saryn is hardly on par with other frames now. 

[rawr1254]

Pretty sure i mentioned spreading toxin and viral in the OP xD

Yea was replying to Vecsar forgot to " his post

[Vaxillian]

Oh I see, my main point is that she is approachable in different ways now that makes her better, not that she is more fun to play. Just a little misunderstanding.

[Pride]

 

Now do the same in a t3 ext where the enemies are more spread out dont cluster up as much and attack you from range  and multiple angles.

145% range alone solves this problem

 

I did a solo Test 38 min Apollodorus run  5 min ago. Molt lasted 2 seconds if i where lucky at the end.

2 seconds is plenty of time to gtfo idk what your problem is

 

Cute my little heal station lasted 2 seconds against level 42 trash mobs. AKA they destroyed it in that timeframe. Meaning it did nothing for crowd control nor did it hold aggro long enough to be of use.

yah but it did spread toxin so that when you use maisma next it will deal double damage so you know ... try doing that next?

 

 

How do you intend to heal when you face a real threat? park molt where mobs cant target it?

well saryn builds always did work well with using rage might i suggest life strike? I use a channeling build weapon with unranked life strike to yield 210% channel damage with 2 energy per swing slap toxic lash on that and go to town

 

 

Sure for this test i had 100% range but my spore chains where broken over and over just by the fact that enemies did not want to play ball and remained spread out enough that it only affected  those catch in the 16 meter radius.

145% range is usually enough dont bother with overextended tho its overkill and takes down your overall dps

anyone else need me to "debunk" their inability to process and come up with solutions themselves? happy to help anyone that isnt comfortable with the new saryn i have gotten in enough play time on her i know all her options

[Synitare]

One of the biggest problems is that there's now no reason to use Miasma at all. It's not worth the energy or the setup time. Even bigger than that, as a melee frame Saryn isn't really worth using at all. She doesn't have the survivability necessary, or anywhere near the damage capacity of other melee frames. She's not even in the same league.