Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[Athros]

pls complain with some clear arguments and/or feedback kouhai

 

 

All you need is some adjustments. Both on your build and your gameplay. Stop with the rant, and start playing it to accumulate any valid feedback to give to DE abut the current rework so they can improve it.

[CheezThePimp]

I started to use her more after the rework and really dont understand all this nerf thing

[Evanderlism]

Just a quick question to anyone that sees this. People keep saying to use miasma for that specific elemental damage but wouldn't it make more sense to just grab the dual ichor

[Dwolfknight]

Just a quick question to anyone that sees this. People keep saying to use miasma for that specific elemental damage but wouldn't it make more sense to just grab the dual ichor

Wait you are asking for people to think??? how dare you!

[(XBOX)R0T IN]

So why is it ok for people to say they like sayrns rework but its not to say its a bunch of bs... obviosly there are more people that dont like the rework than there are that do..

[taiiat]

now that it works better (still might be some Host/Client issues with Toxic Lash + Spores, but i can't be sure - sometimes i just don't seem to get Energy from Enemies that have Spores on them as a Client) - i have plenty of Energy. i can manufacture Energy in small amounts, and i'm okay with this. lots of Ability casting, but i get Energy back from doing it.

 

previously i'd slotted Rage as it seemed i was probably going to need it. now i definitely don't. no complaints from me about having another Mod Slot to put in something i'd like to have.

 

 

 

still want my Health back.

and the other things i've talked about ofcourse.

Edited November 11, 2015 by taiiat

[Nihuase]

https://youtu.be/iDCD9S1BCA4?t=227

 

It is doesn't mean anything for me - this power range is bad in real fight. If we going to increase range (Overextended) we losing strength, if we increasing srength - minus duration (Transient Fortitude)  or effeciency (Blind Rage), if we going to increase duration (Narrow Minded) boom range lost! Want more effeciency? (Fleeting Expertise) Here u go - minus duration!

 

As u probably know Spore(bad without duration, range and strength) or Molt (bad without strength and range) or Miasma(bad without duration, range,strength) needs all 4 parameters for a good build cause we also need efficiency for 300% combo. SO HOW IT IS HAPPEN?! And what they going to do with that?

[saltrock0000]

Tested a little in Defences and survivals issues im having -

Team mates kill things too quickly for you to run about stacking toxic damage with your melee weapon, and the torid is so nerfed its not worth it.

Energy back seems pretty low

The skill drop after 40+ enemys is ridiculious

general survivability of both saryn and her molt is still bad

lack of CC.

The time it takes for spores to activate on an enemy means you ahve to halt in the killing, wait for them to apear then shoot/mellee, this pause oftern leaves you dead or very low HP

She still feels like a poor mid tier frame now not really forfilling any role in groups. She is nolonger a true DPS as someone spamming tonkor, hek, kulstar, tigris all out damage you easily whilst your trying to "synergise" her skills.

[akira_him]

It is doesn't mean anything for me - this power range is bad in real fight. If we going to increase range (Overextended) we losing strength, if we increasing srength - minus duration (Transient Fortitude)  or effeciency (Blind Rage), if we going to increase duration (Narrow Minded) boom range lost! Want more effeciency? (Fleeting Expertise) Here u go - minus duration!

 

As u probably know Spore(bad without duration, range and strength) or Molt (bad without strength and range) or Miasma(bad without duration, range,strength) needs all 4 parameters for a good build cause we also need efficiency for 300% combo. SO HOW IT IS HAPPEN?! And what they going to do with that?

I cannot find your original post because merged thread, I believe the concern was 2-1-2-4 costed too much energy

that video showed you just need 2-1-4, saved some of the energy

if you just want to pop spores with overextend, 2-1-bullet jump over it, cost even less energy

 

And, there is still no point using miasma and toxic lash

Edited November 11, 2015 by akira_him

[bubbabenali]

Oh god, all this merging... nothing good will come from this.

With now 105 pages of - thanks to time stamped messages - completly random chats it is impossible to get any usefull informations or suggestions out of this.

Please close ther thread with todays patch.

 

Thank you for listening.

 

PS: Horay for the meta!

[AkikoShikata]

I've been playing Saryn very often lately, and my views on her are so. Some of my views, in fact very likely most of them, will be rephrased versions of earlier comments because I can't really be bothered with 106 pages worth of comments. Feel free to disregard this post.

 

Saryn is in the limbo of being somewhere between a caster and a melee frame. Her added tankiness gives her the ability to take a bit more punishment, but is insufficient for going into a heavy gunner's face without taking substantial damage, as such relegating her to mid range combat while darting in and out of melee combat occasionally.

 

Spore is one of the best examples of 1st skills that scale well, with it scaling from early game into late game quite well, though perhaps a little too effective in early game. It seems to be more oriented towards being a caster though, given you have little incentive to really rush in for the melee strike interaction with toxic lash. It should stay the same, though, as it still remains one of the most useful skills in Saryn's current kit.

 

Moult works wonders if you have the regenerative moult augment, essentially making a rage build viable, but it doesn't serve as an effective bullet sponge into late game and the aggro is only drawn for a short period of time due to it's poor damage resistance. Moult needs to be more tanky because unlike other frames with bullet sponge skills, Saryn can and will continue to be the target right after it expires or dies, while Loki has invisibility to follow up Decoy and Mirage's Hall of Mirrors is dependent on duration rather than her clones having health. Perhaps give her some extra durability after casting moult, or a bonus movement speed and parkour maneuvers, while making the moult more tanky as well

 

Making toxic lash castable while moving was a nice touch, but in practice it disable other actions a little too long to serve its purpose effectively enough for me to want to use it, and the toxin damage doesn't scale well into late game. As of now, it pretty much works like the toxin melee mod, except with guranteed proc and the damage block boost which again, doesn't scale well into late game when a point blank corrupted crewman shot or a corrupted nullifier shot is enough to kill you many times over. Perhaps the toxin proc needs to be changed to a gas proc allowing Saryn to better deal with densely packed crowds, which seems to be her whole point now, while still retaining the toxin damage.

 

Miasma is an issue because outright damage abilities never scale particularly well. This was why pre-rework Mesa wasn't a requirement in endless voids past a certain wave count. While the interactions with viral and toxin procs is definitely a boost to her kit, when going into really late game it becomes obsolete. The only reason Miasma even does anything is because of Spore's damage boost and viral proc, resulting in half health enemies taking up to 4x damage. While certainly, not all abilities should scale into late game super well, the 4th skill is usually supposed to be the strongest ability of the kit that can help in the endgame, and Spore far outperforms Miasma in that aspect. As such, perhaps Miasma should be changed into, instead of simply being an arbitrary number based nuke, a percentage health based DOT, perhaps?

 

I do think warframe abilities are currently moving in the right direction particularly with Saryn, because of the interactions between abilities, making abilities build off rather than replace each other, and I'm excited to see how things will progress. Reworked Saryn certainly has her flaws, as do all Warframes, but her new kit isn't outright unplayable.

 

As for that one guy's problem with the inability of her current kit to benefit uniformly from the different stat bonuses and reductions of corrupted mods, this is the fundamental issue with a kit centered around skills that build off each other. You can't trade off something without sacrificing another, but you need all of it to really be effective. Even so, some tradeoffs are better than others, so you just need to be a little more strategic about your builds. After all, the devs are trying to reject the whole "one build fit all" playstyle that is prevalent among many frames currently.

[Nihuase]

I cannot find your original post because merged thread, I believe the concern was 2-1-2-4 costed too much energy

that video showed you just need 2-1-4, saved some of the energy

if you just want to pop spores with overextend, 2-1-bullet jump over it, cost even less energy

 

And, there is still no point using miasma and toxic lash

All playable build thats i got now require about 100 energy for 2-1-4 combo. Same damage in same range with old Saryn required 25 energy. I just can't deal with it.  It is ok to use combo but this energy lose. I can show my builds if u want.

Sorry for my English.

[akira_him]

-snip-

 

As for that one guy's problem with the inability of her current kit to benefit uniformly from the different stat bonuses and reductions of corrupted mods, this is the fundamental issue with a kit centered around skills that build off each other. You can't trade off something without sacrificing another, but you need all of it to really be effective. Even so, some tradeoffs are better than others, so you just need to be a little more strategic about your builds. After all, the devs are trying to reject the whole "one build fit all" playstyle that is prevalent among many frames currently.

unfortunately this rework doesn't achieve that "no more one build fits all", the only ability worth building towards is range spore, you molt will work find automatically with a range build, the bonus of toxic lash is practically pointless and the damage of miasma is irrelevant in high end missions and now she dies fast because loss of the effective HP loss and lack of reliable CC

she has the exact same issue as she did: only 1 ability worth building towards it, in the past it was miasma, now it is spore

 

 

All playable build thats i got now require about 100 energy for 2-1-4 combo. Same damage in same range with old Saryn required 25 energy. I just can't deal with it.  It is ok to use combo but this energy lose. I can show my builds if u want.

Sorry for my English.

I have to be honest to tell you that do not build towards miasma at the moment, it is not worth it wasting 100 energy ends up only tickling enemies

forget power strength, build towards range spore

Edited November 11, 2015 by akira_him

[bubbabenali]

All playable build thats i got now require about 100 energy for 2-1-4 combo. Same damage in same range with old Saryn required 25 energy. I just can't deal with it.  It is ok to use combo but this energy lose. I can show my builds if u want.

Sorry for my English.

Pick a good weapon set with you. For example Spore popping works good with concealed explosives Hikou or an Ignis. For melee take a fast weapon that has stagger capabilities like the Zoren or in the bes case the Ichor.

Most the time you will not even need Miasma then.

[aerosoul1337]

Saryn is formidable with correct builds actually.

This is a T4D and no CP team.

I am using 125% power strength only.

 

Edited November 11, 2015 by aerosoul1337

[DraccoDoom]

Good, it seams they stopped improving here as seen with the last patch, and I can put her in to the freezer. I knew they would not make any big changes and they proven me right, the last attempt to fix the energy problem was just so bad it seamed to be a joke all in the name of "synergy" 

 

So you have a energy problem? ok, cast even more powers and run in melee range and you can make 20 energy of 10 enemies you kill them in melee range, just remember to have 2 powers active at that time and you need to do the killing blow, gee thanks that fix everything, not.

 

At least it ended now and we can check Saryn back in 2 years, and remake here in the name of quick responsiveness or fast play OR whatever be the new and shiny word then,  after the "synergy" phase we have now.

[VoidNomade]

now that it works better (still might be some Host/Client issues with Toxic Lash + Spores, but i can't be sure - sometimes i just don't seem to get Energy from Enemies that have Spores on them as a Client) - i have plenty of Energy. i can manufacture Energy in small amounts, and i'm okay with this. lots of Ability casting, but i get Energy back from doing it.

 

previously i'd slotted Rage as it seemed i was probably going to need it. now i definitely don't. no complaints from me about having another Mod Slot to put in something i'd like to have.

 

 

 

still want my Health back.

and the other things i've talked about ofcourse.

 

Than also mention your %effi please. In my book only a saryn with 75% effi and in invested missions can self sustain herself - somewhat.

Edited November 11, 2015 by VoidNomade

[DelialFallen]

Saryn is really formidable with correct builds actually.

This is a T4D and no CP team.

I am using 125% power strength only.

 

 

Do NOT nerf this.

 

I'm not sure if boasting about the interaction between Concealed Explosives and Spores is a very good idea if you want to keep them unnerfed.

[akira_him]

I'm not sure if boasting about the interaction between Concealed Explosives and Spores is a very good idea if you want to keep them unnerfed.

Nerf ALL AoE weapons!

[GhostLacuna]

So i guess gas hikou prime with concealed explosions for your saryn aerosoul1337

 

[AkikoShikata]

Stop talking about that guy bragging about his damage, the thread is about reworked Saryn's viability in the game

 

unfortunately this rework doesn't achieve that "no more one build fits all", the only ability worth building towards is range spore, you molt will work find automatically with a range build, the bonus of toxic lash is practically pointless and the damage of miasma is irrelevant in high end missions and now she dies fast because loss of the effective HP loss and lack of reliable CC

Which is why I made the suggestions I did, to attempt make her all skills more useful. Feel free to improve on suggestions, or make some of you own. 

[DelialFallen]

Nerf ALL AoE weapons!

 

I... wouldn't be surprised.

[aerosoul1337]

 

So i guess gas hikou prime with concealed explosions for your saryn aerosoul1337

 

 

Nice idea but concealed explosions can not proc.

I was just using corrosive since we had no CP.

Toxic damage comes from Molt which is 400 per instance.

I did use miasma as well if my Molt is there so everyone has viral and toxic status.

[DelialFallen]

I did some testing with a melee build, going for survivability foremost (QT, Rage, Regeneration Aura) using Toxic Lash and Spores almost exclusively, and I must say the damage is very satisfying.  Yet, Saryn herself still feels a bit too squishy to rely on melee much.  I think it's best used as a thing you do when needing to Life Strike (if you have time to cast while needing to regen health quickly).

 

I would suggest an increase of her Health and/or armor values to make the most out of the proposed synergy between Toxic Lash and the other abilities.  As it is, it doesn't reliably fit with the other parts of the toolkit to be used synergestically.  Otherwise, I remain unconvinced it's worth using other than as an amusing aside or to change things up a bit.

 

Perhaps as someone else suggested, Toxic Lash could return some small bit of health on hit and not simply when popping Spores.  Like a minuscule Life Strike, perhaps.  It would certainly make the ability more appealing, but may end up being somewhat too convenient in the end (and too similar in function to Valkyr's Hysteria for that part at least).

 

Edit: typo

Edited November 11, 2015 by DelialFallen

[akira_him]

Stop talking about that guy bragging about his damage, the thread is about reworked Saryn's viability in the game

 

Which is why I made the suggestions I did, to attempt make her all skills more useful. Feel free to improve on suggestions, or make some of you own. 

I actually made some of my own suggestions like making miasma staggers per tick with doubled duration, molt snow globe treatment and "overheat" toxic lash