Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[Latiac]

After using Saryn for a while with the new reowrk I can say one thing.

 

It's fun for sure. I like the spore mechanic but the Miasma change basically killed her for me (INB4 WAH PRESS 4 TO WIN). Miasma should stay how it was and have the buff apply to all the other abilities, We can have the negative duration builds for those who want to 'Nuke all the lower tier trash mobs' and those who build for duration and synergy.

 

As of now Saryn hasn't got anything special. it's like a nerf, she doesn't have the stats to get in close to higher levelled enemies (Which if you have seent he latest devstream we know are coming)to pop the spores with Contagion and her abilities energy cost is too damn high.

The skin looks nice i'll say that, but as far as i'm concerned about saryn, she's good right now for things like Mercury and Venus. But I wouldn't consider taking her anywhere else as there are frames that do what she used to do better.

 

I don't understand why these 'reworks' are like this, The community will adapt to the next best thing, Saryn as a nuker is gone. We'll just move on to another frame to clear the trash mobs, and another when that gets nerfed.

 

What would I do to fix Saryn?

 

Revert Miasma back, Miasma was the only thing keeping the old Saryn slightly viable, and it's becoming a chore to use with the new version, and a massive energy drain to combo.

 

Keep Spore and it's Miasma multipliers for anyone who wishes to use Synergy, we get the best of both worlds here, those who don't want Synergy and want to melt trash mobs can. And those who want to use Synergy can aswell. for that extra DPS.

 

Al the other abilities are fine.

 

Increase Saryns speed. Saryn is too slow currently.

Increase Saryns Health pool and/or armour.

Increase her energy pool.

 

I'm not sure why i'm even writing this, the Saryn 'Rework' is here and it is probably too late to even do a thing about it.

 

And yes, I have had time using BOTH Saryns, So I can give a fair judgement of my opinion on it.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Latiac

[viamont]

My main frame and heres my little update on stuff:

 

------------Stats-------------

 

HP: revert back to pre rework (150 base)

Armor: Increase to 225

 

----------powers------------

 

Spores: for the most part i love it, you can spread spores all around SO easily its tremendously gratifying to se all those little numbers all around with viral procs, on that regard its working perfectly as intented. To consolidate the debuff meta DE wants her to fullfill i tought she needs to fully comit to this, so heres are a few ideas that could work for spores:

 

A) Each spore adds a cumulative +5% slow efect (afected by power strength)

 

B) Spores also add a puncture proc (afected by power strength)

 

The first change would give her a MUST needed CC adition, this would increase her presence on the battle field

The second option would further increase her debuff theme, not only making enemys half as resistant BUT also making them deal less damage to her teammates, this would be further noticed on high level content (meaning she would add a team debuff that helps them survive longer)

 

Molt: For the most part molt works great in general, still it TRULLY needs to have an increased survibability.

 

A) Give it the snow globe treatment, gaining 1/2/3/4 invincibility seconds upon casting while also absorbing damage initially to boost healt/shields, this will make it high level content usefull. Afterwards the molt could keep a % of the damage recieved to boost miasma, then with the new damage boost it further (just like it does now).

 

B) Upon dead the molt staggers all enemys on range suffering from a spore (giving it a slightly extra CC component) then after the little stagger slow down enemys on range.

 

Toxic lash: The only change it trully need its to change the parry damage reduction to always active, thats about it, this will further increase her survibability keeeping the melee theme and make her overall better.

 

As a personal extra i belive toxic lash should get the syndicate mod permanently added but instead of a still aura of toxic damage make it a tinny aura ( 2/3/4/5 meters) this will further increase her DoT kit while helping her spread her poisonous love all around.

 

Miasma: With the potentiall adition of the slow or puncture proc increase her damage with another 100% bonus, people who keep those procs all around are rewarded and still makes the skill work with all other powers, furthermore miasma needs to add a +1 second of stun per enemy proc (toxic/viral/puncture) giving her a reliable CC component while still keeping the DoT

[zendian]

My saryn become the most used warframe ,and the weapon is dragon nikana

 

I try many build so here is my point about lash in survival mission with one of my clen

 

 

the most survivable build is not to use any skill mod to build your warframe

because spores viral proc do the nice job ,it weird point you use a warframe build and it just has a little connet with her skill

 

it not viral proc is op ,I didnt have enough energy to use it often  

 

it because the enemy die very soon when use spores or melee on low lv

so you dont need to use any skill mod about lash

 

The high lv enemy about T3S 45min+ your skill also didnt work on it,and you only have viral proc 

so you dont need to use any skill mod ,either 

 

It very strange 

The spore is useful, but not powerful to do the final damage

If you use 4 build to do more damage,you dont have any chance to use melee because you are not hard like Valkyr or the high damage like excalibur on melee combo

 

so the lash became a skill which almost didnt effect the fight

if DE dont want to change saryn other data

 

I guess it must increase from 30 to 120% , or  toxin damage change part or all to finisher attack,  just example

because high LV enemy have both high HP and armor , I even not sure 120% normal toxin damage will work well

 

if DE want to do more

Maybe it could became like reflex guard and the toxin damage with reflection like normal attack will be fun  (finisher is may be batter :) ) 

 

Lash need ...huge damage Buff  i guess, it must increase

but if it have more function  ,it may need increase some damage 

[Rankii]

To keep this short.

Saryn needs more energy. MUCH more energy. You know Volt Prime? That much. For a frame that NEEDS to cast most of her abilities to even be considered remotely effective, not giving her an optimum energy pool is dumb in every possible way.

 

Armor or health needs a boost. With toxic lash being the only energy recovery method for her that doesn't require an external mod, it means saryn will be wading in to a hail of bullets more often than not. This is not good at all. She needs more survivablility and not everyone will have access to the rage/regen combo.

 

Spore needs more damage or some sort of utility. You might say viral proc is enough, I say half health doesn't hinder enemies you haven't shot yet and they're still able to shoot you. Even somethign like lowering speed, which frost can do with his 1 as well as outright STOP enemies, is reasonable. But overall boost the damage. Because spore tickles anything beyond pluto. Which is where most people play anyways when forming parties (draco is piss easy so I won't be counting it.)

 

Molt needs everything. Health (and not duration), as well as a range increase. When it pops, usually only melee-range enemies are effected and they're usually the weaklings, and die anyways. Or, baring range, a snowglobe sort of invuln phase that everyone and their mother has been mentioning.

 

Just get rid of toxic lash: saryn isn't a melee frame and it's laughable to put her on the frontlines as-is. Since there's as good a chance of that as exalted blade getting nerfed, instead make toxic lash into a skill that isn't exclusive to melee weapons. Honestly I've been using my torid instead because I'm sure as hell not going to get close enough to hit someone for a measely 2-6 energy. The risk isn't worth it for the "reward"

 

Miasma needs a damage boost or utility. Now before the salt mines start up I just want to toss in that I've been testing this in the same T3 exterminatiion missions I always test junk out and it's just not good. Not with the ideal conditions of poison and toxin and everything with spores. If someone's had better luck I'd be more than happy to see the screencaps because I don't feel like I'm doing anything more than tickling the rear ends of enemies and that onecorruptedgrineerwiththegorgonIcan'trememberthename is having a chuckle while I pose and make an easy target for him...her...whatever. If not damage, then a utility of the corrosive proc it used to have, or SOMETHING. Maybe also spreading spores, since that's apparently the thing now, or area denial. Because as a pure damage skill it's Silly, Hindering, Inferior, and just plain Terrible.

 

That's my two cents on it. Again. That isn't very short.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Rankii

[Rankii]

Also her premium skin's flower and skirt should be auxillary items; the skin looks much better without them.

[Synitare]

To keep this short.

Saryn needs more energy. MUCH more energy. You know Volt Prime? That much. For a frame that NEEDS to cast most of her abilities to even be considered remotely effective, not giving her an optimum energy pool is dumb in every possible way.

 

I'm hoping that her prime version gets a significant energy pool increase, similar to Volt. Right now 225 energy is exactly enough to cast each of her abilities once at the default 100% efficiency, which is...not really acceptable on a frame that now requires the use of all abilities in tandem.

[RealPandemonium]

For the record I almost never run out of energy on Saryn, and I don't use Flow (just max efficiency.)  If you have an Ignis it's jokes, but even just Toxic lash is enough (if you don't wanna bring a Toxin/Gas status weapon.)  

[Machayna]

For the record I almost never run out of energy on Saryn, and I don't use Flow (just max efficiency.)  If you have an Ignis it's jokes, but even just Toxic lash is enough (if you don't wanna bring a Toxin/Gas status weapon.)  

Are you just talking about if just using spores?  I agree with this if you are just using spores and not trying to keep her skill combos going for higher damage.  It's when I have to start using molt more to survive and miasma for that extra damage that I start to run into issues.  

[RealPandemonium]

Are you just talking about if just using spores?  I agree with this if you are just using spores and not trying to keep her skill combos going for higher damage.  It's when I have to start using molt more to survive and miasma for that extra damage that I start to run into issues.  

Well, Miasma costs as much as it used to, and 1 spore is all you need to keep both status effects on all nearby enemies (or even distant/all enemies when you use a max range build.)  Molt also costs as much as it did, so there's no change there either.  

Edited November 19, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Machayna]

Well, Miasma costs as much as it used to, and 1 spore is all you need to keep both status effects on all nearby enemies (or even distant/all enemies when you use a max range build.)  Molt also costs as much as it did, so there's no change there either.  

Right but there have also been changes to her survivability which ends up with needing to use molt more frequently (at least this is the way I have seen it....I may just need more practice at parkour) and they also gave molt a secondary function which makes it part of the combo which means it is cast more often.  So yes....the cost remained the same.....but the extra casting of it adds up.  Again I agree with you on spore.  It's very efficient so if that's all you need to do then you're golden.  Miasma cost didn't change.  Correct.  However the combo to get miasma to do max damage has increased.  So before if you needed two bursts of miasma to take down a group the cost would be 200 (I think it's 100 per cast if I remember right) and that's that.  Less with whatever efficiency.  If miasma post rework still takes two bursts to take down the same group then you have to add the cost of spore and toxic lash, or spore and molt, or just spore (if running toxic status weapon) into the equation twice because you need to repeat the process each time for the full effect of miasma each time.  Again this is just my understanding based on using her + videos and such so if I'm wrong please let me know.  Ultimately the cost of miasma then HAS increased due to the use of the skills needed to get it to max damage.  

 

So again....I don't have any issues with her so long as I can just use spore most of the time and even running toxic lash it's not too bad.  It's when I get into the higher end enemies that energy burn really hits where you are popping molt to stay alive and hitting miasma more even if it's just for that stun to give you a sec to move.

[RealPandemonium]

Right but there have also been changes to her survivability which ends up with needing to use molt more frequently (at least this is the way I have seen it....I may just need more practice at parkour) and they also gave molt a secondary function which makes it part of the combo which means it is cast more often.  So yes....the cost remained the same.....but the extra casting of it adds up.  Again I agree with you on spore.  It's very efficient so if that's all you need to do then you're golden.  Miasma cost didn't change.  Correct.  However the combo to get miasma to do max damage has increased.  So before if you needed two bursts of miasma to take down a group the cost would be 200 (I think it's 100 per cast if I remember right) and that's that.  Less with whatever efficiency.  If miasma post rework still takes two bursts to take down the same group then you have to add the cost of spore and toxic lash, or spore and molt, or just spore (if running toxic status weapon) into the equation twice because you need to repeat the process each time for the full effect of miasma each time.  Again this is just my understanding based on using her + videos and such so if I'm wrong please let me know.  Ultimately the cost of miasma then HAS increased due to the use of the skills needed to get it to max damage.  

 

So again....I don't have any issues with her so long as I can just use spore most of the time and even running toxic lash it's not too bad.  It's when I get into the higher end enemies that energy burn really hits where you are popping molt to stay alive and hitting miasma more even if it's just for that stun to give you a sec to move.

If you have a Toxin/Gas status weapon then you only need to cast Spore once to inflict both statuses on a whole group.  Also, because Spore guarantees Viral procs on everything and is actually usable alongside Miasma, Miasma is effectively dealing 86% more damage than it was before (at base duration; more or less duration changes the damage proportionally.)

 

If you use a max range build everything on the map will probably share spores, which means you only need to cast molt or Toxic Lash infrequently (in the best case, almost never) since Spore will constantly spread and refresh a single Toxin proc almost indefinitely.

 

Saryn's EHP nerf wasn't tremendous and she benefits more from healing now due to the increased armor.  

 

To summarize: in the best case, Miasma's cost went up very slightly.  In the worst case, it went up by 75%, but that's only if you molt+spore every time you press 4. 

 

While not everyone may agree with "required weapons," bringing a Toxin/Gas status weapon (Gas Ignis is the standout, but Acrid and many other options work just as well) allows you to get more damage out of Miasma for virtually no extra cost.  If you don't have a Toxin status weapon, Toxic Lash is an energy-efficient alternative, and Molt can be used when you're feeling lazy or during emergencies when you need to get a big Miasma out without the time to prepare it.

[Rankii]

I would really like to see your saryn setups for comparison's sake.

[xLordKogax]

Saryn Revisited

 

With this update comes a lot of exciting changes to Saryn’s abilities, giving her more synergy between each power and putting more emphasis on her ability to debuff enemies with Viral and Toxin procs.  As always we will continue to monitor Saryn after the launch of this rework.

Please post your feedback in our megathread here:

 

• Spore Revisions
  • Saryn’s Venom Ability has been renamed to Spore.
  • Guaranteed Viral proc on explosion of spores.
  • If current host has a toxin Proc (i.e from Contagion or any other source), it will transfer that proc too.
  • Damage ticks will be done every second, duration will affect how long the debuff is up.
  • Increase base damage of the ability.
• Molt Revisions
  • Spore can be cast on Molt, infects units which attack Molt.
  • Miasma cast in range of Molt will feed into Molt, creating more damage on explosion.
  • All Spores on Molt Clones will detonate and spread on the clone’s death.
• Toxic Lash Revisions
  • Saryn’s Contagion Ability has been renamed to Toxic Lash.
  • Slightly increased the damage and duration of Toxic Lash.
  • Guaranteed Toxin proc on melee hit.
  • Detonates a Venom spore if the target has one.
  • Damage output scales based on a percent of total damage of melee weapon with Mods, not base.
  • While Toxic Lash is active, there is a bonus damage reduction while blocking. This damage reduction is capped at 90%.
• Miasma Revisions
  • Damage ticks will be done every second, Duration will affect how long the debuff is up.
  • 100% more damage if target is affected by a Viral proc (Venom guarantees a Viral proc when exploded).
  • 100% more damage if target is affected by a Toxin proc (Contagion guarantees a Toxin proc on impact).
  • Enemies hit by Miasma when under the effects of Miasma will have the duration timer reset.
  • Increase base damage overall.
• General Revisions
  • Saryn now has a passive 25% increased Status effect duration.
  • Updated some visual FX on Saryn’s abilities.
  • Saryn can now cast Spore and Toxic Lash while moving.
  • Saryn’s base Armor is now 175.
  • Saryn’s base Health is now 125.
  • Saryn’s maximum Energy is now 150.

Next Steps:

The first round of tweaks are coming to Saryn in the next hotfix pending testing. 

1) Instead of just disappearing on enemy death, Saryn’s Spores will now detonate at a reduced spread distance if the target dies. You may have found yourself in the scenario where you Spore'd an enemy, didn't pop the spores, killed said enemy, only to see his Spores die with him instead of infecting nearby enemies.

2) Toxic Lash can now proc multiple times.

As always - things are subject to change. Keep an eye out for 17.10.1 in which the first round of tweaks will appear.

 

While everyone sugar coats $hit for DE Im gonna say I dont like the Saryn rework or the Mesa rework.

 

I love and Respect DE for this game but after Excalibur and Frost I question what the Heck are yall doing? Hire Me please Yall need some serious Help with these reworks, I will assist Free of Charge cuz I love this game.

 

Take my offer serious cuz Time is Money and I dont work for Free but aslong as You guys make good reworks instead of this game crumbling to the ground, I would offer My assistance

 

Note: The Excalibur and Frost rework imo are Flawless and I love the way they function, along with Valkyr, Nyx, and Embers WoF were fixed beautifully, but whats the deal with the others? Why are you destroying great Warframes Completely to the Ground? Why are You making us Love these Frames to later Hate them for how bad they now are? Im sorry Im just a concerned player that wont hold his tongue for Nobody.

 

Isnt that what the Forums are for? To speak our minds not to like what DE throws at us like some Puppets. 

[Latiac]

While everyone sugar coats $hit for DE Im gonna say I dont like the Saryn rework or the Mesa rework.

 

I love and Respect DE for this game but after Excalibur and Frost I question what the Heck are yall doing? Hire Me please Yall need some serious Help with these reworks, I will assist Free of Charge cuz I love this game.

 

Take my offer serious cuz Time is Money and I dont work for Free but aslong as You guys make good reworks instead of this game crumbling to the ground, I would offer My assistance

 

Note: The Excalibur and Frost rework imo are Flawless and I love the way they function, along with Valkyr, Nyx, and Embers WoF were fixed beautifully, but whats the deal with the others? Why are you destroying great Warframes Completely to the Ground? Why are You making us Love these Frames to later Hate them for how bad they now are? Im sorry Im just a concerned player that wont hold his tongue for Nobody.

 

Isnt that what the Forums are for? To speak our minds not to like what DE throws at us like some Puppets. 

 

I agree, I love the frames designs, but Mesa and Saryn aren't getting dusted off anytime soon. the reworks were awful IMO.

It would have been nice to know of the Mesa nerf in advance and what was going to happen so we could have spoke our mind about it as a community. but it was sprung upon us and only kept a secret by the design council.

 

I'll resay what Warframe is, We are the Tenno, we can take out entire ships of enemies with ease, for days even with unlimited reinforcements. WHy are they taking this power away from us?

 

As much as I respect DE for being awesome, Mesa and Saryn was a step in the wrong direction and they most likely won't consider changing them back, we're stuck with two frames that nobody will use for long.

When was the last time you've seen a Mesa in a lobby, or a Saryn on a serious run?

[(PSN)kira4715]

I agree, I love the frames designs, but Mesa and Saryn aren't getting dusted off anytime soon. the reworks were awful IMO.

It would have been nice to know of the Mesa nerf in advance and what was going to happen so we could have spoke our mind about it as a community. but it was sprung upon us and only kept a secret by the design council.

 

I'll resay what Warframe is, We are the Tenno, we can take out entire ships of enemies with ease, for days even with unlimited reinforcements. WHy are they taking this power away from us?

 

As much as I respect DE for being awesome, Mesa and Saryn was a step in the wrong direction and they most likely won't consider changing them back, we're stuck with two frames that nobody will use for long.

When was the last time you've seen a Mesa in a lobby, or a Saryn on a serious run?

Sadly saryn is getting ember treatment but Hey just think if we beg and grovel for 6 months we might get a well thought out rework 

[Rankii]

While everyone sugar coats $hit for DE Im gonna say I dont like the Saryn rework or the Mesa rework.

 

I love and Respect DE for this game but after Excalibur and Frost I question what the Heck are yall doing? Hire Me please Yall need some serious Help with these reworks, I will assist Free of Charge cuz I love this game.

 

Take my offer serious cuz Time is Money and I dont work for Free but aslong as You guys make good reworks instead of this game crumbling to the ground, I would offer My assistance

 

Note: The Excalibur and Frost rework imo are Flawless and I love the way they function, along with Valkyr, Nyx, and Embers WoF were fixed beautifully, but whats the deal with the others? Why are you destroying great Warframes Completely to the Ground? Why are You making us Love these Frames to later Hate them for how bad they now are? Im sorry Im just a concerned player that wont hold his tongue for Nobody.

 

Isnt that what the Forums are for? To speak our minds not to like what DE throws at us like some Puppets. 

This. The point of the feedback is for feedback but when it feels like anything that doesn't start and end with "Thanks DE" is thrown to the wayside it paints the whole thing in a bad color. One particularly brown with corn-yellow splotches if you get my intent.

 

And especially considering how well they did on Excal (their posterboy frame, of cousre) and frost I'm really surprised and disappointed that Saryn got the shortest possible end of the stick. And those couple of quick "fixes" felt like the 100+ pages of feedback weren't even looked at. I don't like the idea of having to beg to get them to make a frame useable when it didn't need a rework anywhere nearly as bad as frames like Oberon or Limbo. Even nekros got more of a logical set of tweaks than this half-done thing.

[xLordKogax]

This. The point of the feedback is for feedback but when it feels like anything that doesn't start and end with "Thanks DE" is thrown to the wayside it paints the whole thing in a bad color. One particularly brown with corn-yellow splotches if you get my intent.

 

And especially considering how well they did on Excal (their posterboy frame, of cousre) and frost I'm really surprised and disappointed that Saryn got the shortest possible end of the stick. And those couple of quick "fixes" felt like the 100+ pages of feedback weren't even looked at. I don't like the idea of having to beg to get them to make a frame useable when it didn't need a rework anywhere nearly as bad as frames like Oberon or Limbo. Even nekros got more of a logical set of tweaks than this half-done thing.

 

Yes, Instead of making Progress DE is going back and ruining these good Frames. 

 

Dont forget Mesa Saryn is more Viable then Mesas Peacemaker. Im sorry it ends too quick and is Terrible.

It was slightly OP only in Draco and Lower levels but Run the Old Mesa in a T4Survival she will starting dropping like a Fly around 15 Minutes and up

[Rankii]

Yes, Instead of making Progress DE is going back and ruining these good Frames. 

 

Dont forget Mesa Saryn is more Viable then Mesas Peacemaker. Im sorry it ends too quick and is Terrible.

It was slightly OP only in Draco and Lower levels but Run the Old Mesa in a T4Survival she will starting dropping like a Fly around 15 Minutes and up

Also this; people taking things into draco and using that as a measurment of how good it is. Draco is practically nothing but grind fodder. The fact that you can bring a fresh frame and/or weapon there without much problem (if you're smart about it, at least) should be more than enough of a hint that it's not all that challenging. It's actually where I go to test joke builds like Nekros with Soul Punch spam. That doesn't work, by the way; you just end up punching things through the floor eventually and messing up your run.

 

I've been shoving saryn builds in the face of some LV70-80 stuff in the relays with various levels of "oh god this was a horrible idea" or spending a minute to kill off anything beyond a grunt without using my weapon eventually. It's junk and really, REALLY needs another stab at it, instead of putting band-aids on top of a gaping wound. At LEAST make regen molt part of molt, since it's pretty much required at this point along with vitality and rage. That leaves players with 5 slots to work with, and that's not much of anything at all when you actually get down to it.

 

You'd probably stick on a mid-range TF, NM & OE, and maxed FE to try to get some efficiency, then continuity, or stretch. But then you look at the numbers and get disappointed again. And that's assuming you haven't already forma'd saryn a few times because you never expected a rework to run exactly counter to the most common build.

[Krak_Nihilus]

I have just one thing to say: please add aim assist to spores, something like frost has with his 1. It's hard to aim it now.

[DiosGX]

 

Notice how my roar Rhino does the same damage multiplication trick Saryn does (technically it's +90% instead of +100%, but close enough) and doesn't need to worry about popping spores or spreading procs and only has to worry about getting his buff back up once every 40-50 seconds as opposed to every new wave of enemies?

Except Stomp cannot be recast and if even a single enemy left alive, which seems likely given your large power range, then you can't Stomp again.

 

Saryn does not have this issue. Your failure to assess both your own preferred frame as well as Saryn makes your point moot.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

mmmmm is that enough energy i feel like saryn is going to need more energy than any other frame now im ok with that of course but i feel like she is going to need A LOT of energy

She needs at least 150 energy and id say 200 with her prime frame.

Edited November 20, 2015 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[akira_him]

Except Stomp cannot be recast and if even a single enemy left alive, which seems likely given your large power range, then you can't Stomp again.

Saryn does not have this issue. Your failure to assess both your own preferred frame as well as Saryn makes your point moot.

rhino is going to have recastable stomp in his rework in possibly next patch, which has already been showed in devstream

[(PSN)Lone_Spartan_116]

Got to say from the vids on youtube that saryn has got better with the rework :). i was worried at first but they made spores alot better and toxic lash looks more enticing to use now

 

only thing it needs now is give her health back ;)

[(PSN)Lone_Spartan_116]

Also love the look of her skin i want it now XD

[Vardog]

Got to say from the vids on youtube that saryn has got better with the rework :). i was worried at first but they made spores alot better and toxic lash looks more enticing to use now

 

only thing it needs now is give her health back ;)

 

She's not better, she's exactly at the same spot she was before her rework, only now instead of spamming 4 you spam 1.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Vardog