New Sentient Enemies Need To Be Reworked

[Scylax]

It's easier to kill the majority of the bosses in Warframe than it is to kill just one Sentient miniboss. Sentients are seriously out of touch with the rest of the game. Yes, yes -- switch damage types since they adapt, except that doesn't work. More on this later.

 

Problem number one: It's impossible to avoid detection in missions where you're defending an objective

 

Sentients send scouts out, and if you get detected, that's your fault -- at least that's the idea. On missions where you're defending an objective though (defense, mobile defense, hijack, etc) it's impossible to hide from them. If you leave the area, the objective gets destroyed. If you stay to defend the objective, the scouts find you, and the Sentient fighters spawn.

 

 

Problem number two: How they adapt to damage is not clear enough

 

I was attacking one of the fighters with the Boltace (melee weapon). I have a modded value of 448.8 corrosive damage on it, and the values for impact, puncture, and slash damage are 18.7, 269.3, and 29.9 respectively. It "adapted" to my Boltace, so I switched to the Soma P. (low-rank and only slightly modded -- forgive me) which had 2.4, 9.6, and 12.0 damage for impact, puncture, and slash (no elemental damage). The shots from the Soma P. were doing 0-1 damage even though I hadn't attacked the Sentient fighter with it before. The adaptation obviously isn't based on which weapon you're using, so what's it based on?

 

Elemental damage? I had been using Corrosive damage on the fighter before, and then switched to no elemental damage and wasn't damaging the Sentient at all. On this thread other players were saying they used a plethora of elements on it but weren't doing damage to it. It's obviously not based on element. I wouldn't think it'd be based on impact, puncture, or slash either because the Boltace has a low slash damage but high puncture damage while the Soma P. has a high (in relativity to how much puncture/impact damage it does) base slash damage, and did no damage to the Sentient.

 

DE needs to make it very clear how they adapt and how players can get around this. Neglecting to provide this information makes them invincible god-mode tanks that are impossible to kill.

 

 

Problem number three: They are ridiculously hard to kill and are way too dangerous

 

Yes, they should not be pushovers, but these Sentients are more of a bother than any other boss in the game, and they're not even bosses -- they're just minibosses. When they spawned in a mobile defense mission I was doing, it took all but 15 seconds for one of them to destroy the terminal I was defending. That's a single unit. It's impossible to kill them quickly enough to protect the terminal. How fast they can destroy the terminal is unreasonable. That's just how much damage they dish out though -- their durability is probably even worse. Normally I wield the Opticor and Boltace when I go on missions, and these two weapons pack some serious firepower. I can one-shot heavy bombard units probably up to level 60 with a fully charged shot from the Opticor (205 impact, 1,742 puncture, 102 slash, and 3,690 of a dual element of my choosing), and I can slide attack through a line of level 60 enemies and kill all of them in one sweep. A level 30 Sentient fighter? Nope -- 3 straight minutes of me attacking only that one fighter, switching between the Opticor and Boltace as I go. This is absolutely absurd. They are completely unbalanced. Sure, I enjoy difficult enemies, but I don't enjoy god-mode death machines. A couple people have been nice enough to upload videos of how to kill them to YouTube, but even in those it takes more than one minute just to kill one of them. One minute for a single enemy is way too long, especially when it takes such an insane amount of ammo to kill them, even in those YouTube videos.

 

 

The detection system for the scouts needs to be reworked so I can remain undetected in defense-esque missions without leaving the objective to be destroyed, or just removed entirely from defense, mobile defense, etc missions. How we can effectively destroy them needs to be made clearer -- very clear. The amount of ammo and time required to kill just one of their soldiers needs to be lessened, because right now it's at an unreasonable amount. I was super excited by the end of the second dream quest, but now I can't even complete a single defense-esque mission where Sentients show up. I kind of just rushed past them in the quest, but now they're just getting unbearable, and based on the commentary from the thread I linked earlier, it seems I'm not the only one who feels this way. Please rework Sentients so they fit into the game better.

 

Edit: "But they're supposed to be strong!!11!1!!1!"

And why are they strong? Because their units are death machines? Or is it because the living Sentients have an infinite army of disposable robots at the tip of their fingers? In the Tombs of the Sentient trailer, a huge amount of them came out to fight the Tenno -- they can be made difficult through a variety of methods, but the current one obviously doesn't fit into the game. Claiming "oh they shouldn't be changed because the lore says they're powerful!" is nothing but ignorance when there are infinitely more ways this can be accomplished without breaking the game.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Scylax

[CelticMoss]

Uh duh they're the strongest race in the game ofc they will be stronger then most of the bosses.

[SunsetChaos]

I don't get how Sentients are ever a threat when all you need is a Nyx, their mortal enemy.

Mind Freak, Pacifying Bolts, Chaos Sphere, Absorb...

[blasron]

1 and 2 are truth but number 3 i must disagree they are not "hard" to kill but not easy either.

 

The main thing about them is that the change their defence (puncture, impact, slash and the elemental domage) so if you keep you build build around them for the moon's mission you will be able to reckt them.

 

Another thing too they seem to be unable to adapt to the frame power.

[T-REXFury]

thers something you can use its called wall latch, they are easy targets doing it this way.

[InoxMaximus]

They are ridiculously hard to kill and are way too dangerous !

 

YESSSS!!! I NEED MOREE !

Edited December 6, 2015 by InoxMaximus

[GSDAkatsuki]

Lol had to fight the 2 scanner pairs spawning their 2 Battle guys each while we were doing the Eye Mini boss puzzle, and then Stalker also spawned in cuz he's a prick. LOL. Hypest bosses fight ever.

Edited December 6, 2015 by GSDAkatsuki

[CelticMoss]

Also sentients are made to feel this hard

They should feel like a impossible battle

The last war even said while we were winning alot of tenno died pushing them back.

Edited December 6, 2015 by SarahApple

[Krion112]

Fighting the Sentient fighters comes down to the word: tedious. It's fun to dodge their attacks, but they take way too much work to kill. They are literally bullet sponges, and last I checked nobody liked bullet sponges. I can switch between three weapons, each carrying different elemental damage types, and it takes like one second for them to adapt and then I'm fighting an enemy that has about 1/4 or 1/2 of its health left, dealing 2 to 3 damage a hit.

 

This is not difficulty, this is tedium. I don't care if I can't one shot them, but this is quite simply not fun to fight.

[LordBeeBrain]

I don't get how Sentients are ever a threat when all you need is a Nyx, their mortal enemy.

Mind Freak, Pacifying Bolts, Chaos Sphere, Absorb...

 

Uh-huh. Just wait until they get the power-resist thing that Bursas have. 

[mantasas17x]

Dude thats the point of sentients!!!! They are the biggest threat to Op, to lotus! I totaly disagree with you expect on point 2, the dmg part is unclear for me aswell, but what i love most of them is that they are different , it is no matter what weapon you bring they will be hard to kill ( Took my opticor first few hits were WOW and then ..... ) If you dont like em avoid their missions!

[Scylax]

I don't get how Sentients are ever a threat when all you need is a Nyx, their mortal enemy.

Mind Freak, Pacifying Bolts, Chaos Sphere, Absorb...

I'm not going to go re-build Nyx, level it up to rank 30, and use it just for moon missions so I can cope with the Sentients, and you shouldn't be asking people to do that either. Frames are a choice of play style -- weapons and mods (for both your weapons and frame) are what you adapt for enemies. They are a completely broken game aspect if you have to and can only use one individual frame to beat them.

 

Uh duh they're the strongest race in the game ofc they will be stronger then most of the bosses.

And why are they strong? Because their units are death machines? Or is it because the living Sentients have an infinite army of disposable robots at the tip of their fingers? In the Tombs of the Sentient trailer, a huge amount of them came out to fight the Tenno -- they can be made difficult through a variety of methods, but the current one obviously doesn't fit into the game. Claiming "oh they shouldn't be changed because the lore says they're powerful!" is nothing but ignorance when there are infinitely more ways this can be accomplished without breaking the game.

 

 

1 and 2 are truth but number 3 i must disagree they are not "hard" to kill but not easy either.

 

The main thing about them is that the change their defence (puncture, impact, slash and the elemental domage) so if you keep you build build around them for the moon's mission you will be able to reckt them.

 

Another thing too they seem to be unable to adapt to the frame power.

One minute to kill them even if you adapt. It only takes 15 seconds for them to destroy the terminal. Asking us to defend the terminal when it's literally impossible to kill them before they destroy the terminal is asking the impossible.

[CelticMoss]

I'm not going to go re-build Nyx, level it up to rank 30, and use it just for moon missions so I can cope with the Sentients, and you shouldn't be asking people to do that either. Frames are a choice of play style -- weapons and mods (for both your weapons and frame) are what you adapt for enemies. They are a completely broken game aspect if you have to and can only use one individual frame to beat them.

 

And why are they strong? Because their units are death machines? Or is it because the living Sentients have an infinite army of disposable robots at the tip of their fingers? In the Tombs of the Sentient trailer, a huge amount of them came out to fight the Tenno -- they can be made difficult through a variety of methods, but the current one obviously doesn't fit into the game. Claiming "oh they shouldn't be changed because the lore says they're powerful!" is nothing but ignorance when there are infinitely more ways this can be accomplished without breaking the game.

 

 

One minute to kill them even if you adapt. It only takes 15 seconds for them to destroy the terminal. Asking us to defend the terminal when it's literally impossible to kill them before they destroy the terminal is asking the impossible made weaker

If they're made weaker they will just be a new stalker alot of cool abilitys but doesn't get a chance to use them cause they will die in one shot.

Edited December 6, 2015 by SarahApple

[Oranji]

Sounds like a personal problem to me.
Do me a favor.
Attack that sentient with your Soma with Corrosive. Once it adapts to it shoot it with your secondary with another element like Viral or better yet use a Synoid Gammacor (Magnetic + Viral) or a Mara Detron (Radiation + Viral).
Then you'd be like... Ohhhh... so they are that easy to kill.

Problem is you posted a complain/rant/frustration thread before even trying. Next time pls do more pewpew and less QQ.

 

 

Video that you can kill one in under 30 seconds or I'm not the only one doing less pewpew and more QQ.

My first ever youtube video.

Using a Corrosive Dread and a Synoid with Viral + Magnetic

I believe that's 13 seconds as soon as I start firing.

https://youtu.be/MTh3dRJQ3LQ

Edited December 9, 2015 by Oranji

[Scylax]

Sounds like a personal problem to me.

Do me a favor.

Attack that sentient with your Soma with Corrosive. Once it adapts to it shoot it with your secondary with another element like Viral or better yet use a Synoid Gammacor (Magnetic + Viral) or a Mara Detron (Radiation + Viral).

Then you'd be like... Ohhhh... so they are that easy to kill.

Problem is you posted a complain/rant/frustration thread before even trying. Next time pls do more pewpew and less QQ.

Video that you can kill one in under 30 seconds or I'm not the only one doing less pewpew and more QQ.

 

 

If they're made weaker they will just be a new stalker alot of cool abilitys but doesn't get a chance to use them cause they will die in one shot.

As I mentioned... there are a variety of ways for them to be made difficult without making them invincible death machines. Maybe this isn't apparent to you since all you have for reference is either the bullet sponges or 1-shot-laughables that DE has to offer, but I'm proud to tell you that there are many more ways to design enemies than that. Instead of spawning 2 death machines, spawn 30 of reasonably dangerous and durable Sentient robots. Or, introduce the two in a much more engaging way where they're not just bullet sponges. Make me use my SPOILER: real body in coordination with my frame to take them down by entangling them in some trap and have them not destroy the terminal I'm defending in 15 seconds so I actually have a chance to enjoy the properly designed Sentient fight.

[(NSW)Aila]

To the people saying they should be dangerous:

 

Here's the problem with that notion.

 

Hi! My name is Ivara, and I can't be killed by Sentients. Two spawned at the very start of the mission and I STILL had enough energy to keep Prowl on the whole time. Earlier Shadow Stalker showed up and I just shot cloak arrows at the ground so he couldn't see me.

 

They are NOT dangerous. They are TEDIOUS or LETHAL, depending on your abilities, and neither is a fun fight.

 

Note: Shadow Stalker adapted to all of my weapons. Corrosive, viral, heat, and physical (sentinel, melee, secondary, primary, respectively). By the end of it I just dropped the cloak and let him kill me because I couldn't do more than 2 damage a shot to his shields.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Oetpay

[Scylax]

Apparently Sentient scout drones spawn every single time you start the countdown for a terminal on mobile defense. Three times in one mission? So not cool.

 

Edit: Looks like they don't spawn on subsequent terminals after they catch you and you defeat the two fighter Sentients. They'll only keep spawning if you hide and they don't detect you.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Scylax

[SaucyTuckermax]

For those saying they are 'hard' to kill have not tried the following:

 

use a nyx. conculysts and battlyst ARE effected by mind control. Use mind control on 1 (since 2 usually spawn at once) then let them fight it out until mind controls duration runs out. At this point, both will usually be around half health unless you have the mind control augment on, which in that case one will be almost dead and the other (the one you mind controlled) should be around half health.

 

Step 2: You have a well modded excalibur with exalted blade build on your squad and he finishes both of them off in just a few swings.

 

Been dropping them like flies with this excal, nyx combo....

 

[Jaimas]

They're very clearly bugged.

 

If you don't kill them with the opening salvo, they're nigh-on unkillable for some frames. God help you if you have a passive damaging effect like Chroma or the like; they'll trigger their "I'm invincible to everything" mode that much faster if you do. I've used nothing but elemental-damage weapons (as in: No physical damage at all) - Lanka, Nukor, and Serro - all modded to do different damage types (Corrosive, Viral/Radiation, Magnetic). The thing still became invincible in short order and I wasn't able to do more than double-digit damage with pretty much anything I did.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Jaimas

[ndantony]

I don't get how Sentients are ever a threat when all you need is a Nyx, their mortal enemy.

Mind Freak, Pacifying Bolts, Chaos Sphere, Absorb...

It's a bug. They should be able to resist them just like Bursa.

[(NSW)Aila]

For those saying they are 'hard' to kill have not tried the following:

 

use a nyx. conculysts and battlyst ARE effected by mind control. Use mind control on 1 (since 2 usually spawn at once) then let them fight it out until mind controls duration runs out. At this point, both will usually be around half health unless you have the mind control augment on, which in that case one will be almost dead and the other (the one you mind controlled) should be around half health.

 

Step 2: You have a well modded excalibur with exalted blade build on your squad and he finishes both of them off in just a few swings.

 

Been dropping them like flies with this excal, nyx combo....

Actually I just didn't consider "stop using all but two frames that you might not even have, and also if we pretend Shadow Stalker doesn't exist" to be a "solution" worth discussing.

[akira_him]

use rhino

stomp can stop their laser attacks

or just run under it when it use the spinning laser attack

it cannot attack anything directly under it

[Echowing]

I agree that they have an incredible amount of HP and damage.  I use Excalibur with 300/660 Shields/HP, and a single Battalyst can kill me in 4-5 normal shots.  In addition, I've had several times that a Sentient fighter adapted to all my damage, making it physically impossible to deal any damage (this is with a Tigris and a radiation/viral Atomos, so I had a plenty mixed arsenal).  This is on top of the fact that they have a massive amount of health compared to any other unit short of bosses.  I love the adapting damage mechanic, but they do an incredible amount of damage, they have tons of HP, and their adaptation mechanic is VERY unclear.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Echowing

[ThePredicament]

Faced Shadow Stalker the THIRD time since he's been upgraded and I've come to the conclusion that there are three things fundamentally wrong with the sentient system.

 

First, it pigeonholes you into having a rainbow equipment build, it's fine for facing off against Sentinels because you know what nodes they're in, just like preparing for every other faction BUT the Shadow Stalker shows up in random missions. You either PURPOSELY neuter your equipment so you can stack the damage types against him or you go in and you spend ten to twenty minutes doing chip damage. It isn't fun, it isn't challenging, it's just cheap.

 

Secondly, not only does that mean you have to vary your builds to get a chance for a REAL actual fight, you have to gamble it all away while leveling weapons that either don't have enough slot points to even begin to vary builds OR need to be built to vary for him. With the vanilla Stalker, you can equip any weapon, including underleveled stuff, OR one powerful/maxed insurance weapon and still have a good fight, now, you really can't. The fight itself is good, high tension, good challenge until he has less than a third of health left, then it just becomes @(*()$ TEDIOUS.

 

Third, not every frame has an attack skill to "vary" attack types, this greatly hurts the chances for frames with all utility based skills both in solo and while being singled out in coop games.

 

It would be a great mechanic if it worked but it doesn't, there are plenty of ways to have players use varied builds with varied equipment but this is FORCED and it's not good. No adaptation to IPS, bam easy, that's a third to a fifth of damage. SWITCH adaptation when using different equipment for a certain amount of damage, once adapted to a certain set of elements (ex:IPS+Corrosive+Blast), normalize the rest (Magnetic+Gas/Rad+Viral).

[CY13ERPUNK]

ok

 

read OP

 

disagree completely, IMHO sentients are basically 'perfect' and in a good spot challenge-wise, they really make the mobile defense mission on the moon tense/suspenseful [something that many missions lack due to predictable/monotonous enemy hordes]

 

so ya, -1 OP

 

plz DE, dont knee-jerk nerf these brilliant new villains just becuz a portion of the playerbase wants an easy-mode

 

FWIW this is just another example of how the game really does need a more dynamic difficulty setting, or at least a way for players/tenno to be able to play on any tileset at a lower/lvl/weaker with proportionally reduced rewards and vice versa, to have more challenging content and either a bit better rewards or just the baseline

 

we constantly see that for many players, there is never enough of a challenge, and i personally dont want to spend 40-60 minutes in 'endless' missions just to get to enemies that dont die in one-shot, but on the flipside, there are other players who for whatever reason, have maxed gear but still get clobbered due to not being able to deal with the ingame enemies/mechanics ; and while we could just tell them to 'git gud' its a game, let them play a reduced version with reduced rewards, there seems no harm in it, as long as it doesnt water down the game for everyone unilaterally