[Spoiler] Nature Of The Warframes

[KaineHeresy]

In the wake of U18 I've seen a lot of theories floating around, but a surprising lack of representation for my own take on things.

 

To begin, I take it that the Warframes do have their own semi-conscious personalities. Without a Tenno actually powering them most of them would black out and fall to the floor, although some mange to move on their own. I take the relationship between Tenno and Warframe to be more like the Tenno riding in the back of the Warframe's head, experiencing the world and the Warframe's personality through it, while directing the Warframe with their will.

 

The most pressing case for Warframe autonomy is breaking War. While the Tenno is being strangled by the Stalker, the Warframe slowly forces itself to move and snap War in half. The important detail here is that Hunhow is too shocked by what is happening to stop us. He thinks of the Warframe as a mindless puppet with no will of its own, that only with a Tenno's control can it do anything. And, being a Sentient, I'm sure he would be able to notice the void energies of transference and understand if it were our Tenno remotely powering the Warframe. But that would have made him urgent, not stopped him in his tracks in confusion.

 

Next we have the Rhino Prime entry and the original Chroma. People like to present Rhino's entry as proof that Warframes are unstable monsters without Tenno control. What they gloss over is that the entry also states the Orokin cut and eviscerated Warframes, giving them pain and measuring the response. Basically the Valkyr treatment, and we know how she turned out. If any circumstance would give rise to a Warframe's own will, I am hard-pressed to think of one more certain than "kill the bastards cutting me up and sewing me back together."

 

Chroma, on the other hand, has been wandering the system for who knows how long. We had assumed that he was being controlled by a Sentient due to all the creepy things he would say during the quest. "Empty is the Womb in the Sky" has a very different meaning to me now. Instead of cryptic Sentient creepiness, now it sounds like Chroma is lamenting the loss of its Tenno. It receives no orders, it has no link beyond itself. And so it wanders, perhaps in hopes of re-establishing that link.

 

At the end of the day there is till a lot to speculate on, and we just don't know how aware the Warframes are.

Edited December 7, 2015 by KaineHeresy

[Gale47]

"Empty is the Womb in the Sky" has a very different meaning to me now. Instead of cryptic Sentient creepiness, now it sounds like Chroma is lamenting the loss of its Tenno. It receives no orders, it has no link beyond itself. And so it wanders, perhaps in hopes of re-establishing that link.

I applaud you. I never even thought of that. It all makes sense now.

[Dawn11715]

 

Chroma, on the other hand, has been wandering the system for who know's how long. We had assumed that he was being controlled by a Sentient due to all the creepy things he would say during the quest. "Empty is the Womb in the Sky" has a very different meaning to me now. Instead of cryptic Sentient creepiness, now it sounds like Chroma is lamenting the loss of its Tenno. It receives no orders, it has no link beyond itself. And so it wanders, perhaps in hopes of re-establishing that link.

 

omg your right^^

I realy havent thought about that^^

[Timedawn]

well said, this is what I think as well. 

 

I also believe the stalker himself is a Warframe. A warframe that was forced to kill a civilization by the tenno that was his operator and now wants revenge on all the tenno.

[Gale47]

well said, this is what I think as well. 

 

I also believe the stalker himself is a Warframe. A warframe that was forced to kill a civilization by the tenno that was his operator and now wants revenge on all the tenno.

It was explicitly stated that he didn't do the killing.

[Gruzelda]

Very well said, this is what I believe as well.

[Alex9-3-9]

Although I knew most of this, I had forgotten about Chromas quest. So basically I'm like Mind blown

Edited December 7, 2015 by Terrorist939

[KaineHeresy]

well said, this is what I think as well. 

 

I also believe the stalker himself is a Warframe. A warframe that was forced to kill a civilization by the tenno that was his operator and now wants revenge on all the tenno.

On the matter of the Stalker, his entry has no indication that he took part in the killing. But personally I hold to the theory that he attempted a make-shift transference to gain their power, but got his mind permanently fused to the Warframe.

 

Not much to support it, really, but the Stalker is still pretty up in the air.

Edited December 7, 2015 by KaineHeresy

[Leavith]

Kubrows to you dear OP,

Consider the stalker can use Warframe powers I take it he has a bit of Warframe in him or the technology....To the chance being the sentient makes him question if he is just like one of them.

But from what the lotus said as you earlier stated was that him searching for the power of the Warframes/Tenno is what caused him to do so.

I am not sure if I could be mistaken ,but the stalker itself was a guardian at the day we color the walls of the orokin in empire in their blood ,but in honesty that same empire killed our adopted mom ........GOOD ENOUGHT REASON FOR ME.

Which in turn caused the lotus to hate his weakness and chase for power.

ON OTHER NEWS Alad V got a promotion.......HE IS NOW an OROKIN YAY

I found it funny when the sentient calls Alad V Orokin which just goes to show you how strange things could be.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Leavith

[Timedawn]

It was explicitly stated that he didn't do the killing.

 

He might not have done it himself. If I would force you to hold a knife and then push your arm forward to make you stab a person and he dies.

Who did the killing?

 

It might be the same with stalker and the tenno.

[Leavith]

@Timedawn

No he definitely didn't do the killing, he more likely ran away like a little punk he was which is why he feels despair cause he ran away that's how he survived that day bringing him dread

As for his hate of course is to himself and the tenno.

himself because he was powerless and a coward

the tenno because of what they did.

It states that the Tenno did it.

Stalker was a guardian to what that intel probably what is name stated he probably was some guard for an Orokin official.

All the Tenno turn that day cause we were the twisted few changed by the void

Edited December 7, 2015 by Leavith

[Brachion]

The game does seem to be hinting that Warframes might have minds of their own (especially given Rhino Prime's codex entry).

[Timedawn]

@Timedawn

No he definitely didn't do the killing, he more likely ran away like a little punk he was which is why he feels despair cause he ran away that's how he survived that day bringing him dread

As for his hate of course is to himself and the tenno.

himself because he was powerless and a coward

the tenno because of what they did.

It states that the Tenno did it.

Stalker was a guardian to what that intel probably what is name stated he probably was some guard for an Orokin official.

All the Tenno turn that day cause we were the twisted few changed by the void

 

I suppose that is true, I think Kaine's view on the stalker merging with the frame also seems like a good theory.

Either way something has happened to give him warframe like powers or turn him into a warframe, we just have no clue what happened.

[Gale47]

This basically proves that the Warframes themselves ARE sentient, at least to a certain point. Now the question is - what was that Arcane Machine and what was the deal with the Arcane Boiler?

[Artashir]

On the matter of the Stalker, his entry has no indication that he took part in the killing. But personally I hold to the theory that he attempted a make-shift transference to gain their power, but got his mind permanently fused to the Warframe.

 

Not much to support it, really, but the Stalker is still pretty up in the air.

This is the theory that I ascribe to: if a Tenno under lotus control was running around killing her other children she would probably have cut the link in its case. It makes sense that the Stalker;s Tenno somehow got stuck in their frame.

 

Also, I think what intelligence the frames do have is rudimentry and vestigal by design: the parts of the mind responsible for higher-level thought paired away for the Tenno to fill in. There are instincts present - clearly - as well as an in-built personality that affects the Tenno who wear them, but I very much doubt that a frame absent a Tenno can decide things, only react to external stimuli.

[Leavith]

@Gale47

Surprise you mention that well one theory I have it could be a device that holds the remain of the power of the chroma tenno

I mean I am sure their has at least one zariman child that died causing the death of at least one tenno.

What if in this situation the Tenno that died got put into a machine

Honestly Tenno seen to be power batteries that create energy this energy if the tenno die we don't want to waste it so we put them in a box to keep the cells alive so that they continue to emit energy .

Now if this is true it could also be a form of transference that would keep the energy inside still alive but transferring it to the Warframe allowing the Warframe full control

Of course in honesty of it all the boiler could have actually been the Tenno original body...which I don't want to think about it.Cause I know Warframe are immune to Infestation but now what about Me the operator/tenno.

Which could have been a reason that the Chroma came to the box if I am understanding he had lost his best friend inside his head leaving him alone and then he suddenly feels a surge of energy coming to him he would go to his friends remains to see what was up finding someone their.

Of course is just theory but if this is true probably the box when activated began releasing the energy that feeds the warframe in large amounts.

 

P.S when I mean machine that holds the remain I mean the box at the last mission that is defence the one that makes chroma appear

Edited December 7, 2015 by Leavith

[Artashir]

@ leavith

 

The frames [based on the information we have] are likely infested 'done right'. The infested are headless: the technocyte virus in the infested are uncontrolled and gone feral, following their most basic programed protocols without any higher reasoning [though some of the larger infested may be evolving to that point]. The frames, by contrast, are the same infested flesh with a properly functioning control node that keeps it in check, along with other techno-arcane devices to further enhance the tenno's powers/control over the frame. This is why the infested are incapable of taking over active warframes: they are already fully controled and any 'infecting' material just comes under the same control.

 

Also, since the frames are basically infested, they are probably able to grow and develop if left awake and in the wild long enough [like how droids develop sentience in star wars]. The frames are fundamentally broken creatures, but not inevitably so: they had to be built with the gaps [lack of sapience, higher thought, anime fighting spirit] that the Tenno could then fill, and there is no reason that frames could not grow to fill the gaps themselves. This is probably one of several reasons why the Lotus put all the frames she could on ice with a Tenno conciousness firmly attached to them: it kept them from developing into their own beings that would not be susceptable to Tenno control.

 

[This gives me an idea for a rare enemy/faction/ally: 'Wild' frames that have spent all the time since the old war Tenno-less and have developed into their own individuals: lacking void powers, but still deadly fighters, they could either deeply hate the Tenno for being soul parasites or worship them for being their missing essence, maybe both].

[--Q--uaint]

The infested are headless

The infested are clearly not headless, as my headshot multipliers will attest :3

In all seriousness, though, the head must mean something to the Infested beast. The skull is actually a rather nice piece of fortification, so a "headless" parasite on a "headed" host would actually take less damage from a headshot.

 

[This gives me an idea for a rare enemy/faction/ally: 'Wild' frames that have spent all the time since the old war Tenno-less and have developed into their own individuals: lacking void powers, but still deadly fighters, they could either deeply hate the Tenno for being soul parasites or worship them for being their missing essence, maybe both].

All of my yes. Though it seems the Stalker might potentially fit that description?

[LavenderLaser]

I totally forgot about that bit from Chroma. It would explain why he's gone rogue and been wandering for so long. Also another U18 teaser hidden in plain sight. 

[Omnimorph]

Chroma, on the other hand, has been wandering the system for who knows how long. We had assumed that he was being controlled by a Sentient due to all the creepy things he would say during the quest. "Empty is the Womb in the Sky" has a very different meaning to me now. Instead of cryptic Sentient creepiness, now it sounds like Chroma is lamenting the loss of its Tenno. It receives no orders, it has no link beyond itself. And so it wanders, perhaps in hopes of re-establishing that link.

 

 

That's quite emotional to think of it that way.

 

However, I'm not sure it's really established that Warframes are sentient on their own; I think it's another thing that DE are leaving as somewhat ambiguous. 

 

It's possible that the Warframe pulling out War in TSD was just a last, desperate gasp of remote control from the Tenno (your the player) being strangled by the Stalker. 

 

And if one is linking the Rhino codex with all this, it seems to suggest precisely that some degree of remote control by a Tenno without either the paraphernalia (VR pod with somatic link) or direct touch (as we see in the earlier bit of the quest) is possible.

 

I think the most we can get from the Chroma and Rhino codexes is that Warframes do have some kind of brain-like machinery that can either house a Tenno mind, or can behave independently like a living thing in some rudimentary fashion.

 

I, personally, would like it to be the case that there's some possibility of independence (and that it was the Warframe itself that broke War, out of that rudimentary sentience and some sense of loyalty to its "rider"), but I can't be sure.

 

And I'm now wary of getting into too much headcanon!!! :)))

[LavenderLaser]

It's possible that the Warframe pulling out War in TSD was just a last, desperate gasp of remote control from the Tenno (your the player) being strangled by the Stalker. 

It was pretty clear (not 100% but definitely heavily implied) that without transcendence via somatic link or direct contact, the Tenno can't control or channel void energy into the warframe. As for the Rhino codex, I think it suggests something completely different. Rather than granddaddy Rhino being quickly pacified via transcendence, I think it was Rhino calming down and clearing its head, or perhaps starting to independently develop past its primal instincts. 

[Omnimorph]

It was pretty clear (not 100% but definitely heavily implied) that without transcendence via somatic link or direct contact, the Tenno can't control or channel void energy into the warframe. As for the Rhino codex, I think it suggests something completely different. Rather than granddaddy Rhino being quickly pacified via transcendence, I think it was Rhino calming down and clearing its head, or perhaps starting to independently develop past its primal instincts. 

 

It seems to me more like the scientists are being chased by some sort of proto-warframe (a warframe that's initially without Tenno control),and they're chased into an area near the Zariman kids. 

 

And it's when the warframe gets close to that area that it stops (is stopped by one of the kids presumably, in its dream).

 

So that suggests that some kind of limited remote control of a Warframe by a Tenno is possible in proximity (as well as obviously control by direct touch, as shown in the earlier TSD cinematic).  Both of these would be different from the full "somatic link" type of control, which is transmitted like some kind of wifi signal type of thing.

 

But it does also suggest that there's some kind of basic, rudimentary aliveness and sentience in a Warframe by itself - at least enough to feel pain on their own.  The "golems" are part neurodes/morphics (derived from technocyte/Infested flesh?) part ferrite, plastids, etc.

 

So essentially the Rhino codex is a wash - it somewhat supports both interpretations of our Warframe breaking War.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Omnimorph

[LavenderLaser]

It seems to me more like the scientists are being chased by some sort of proto-warframe (a warframe without Tenno control),and they're chased into an area NEAR THE ZARIMAN KIDS.  So that suggests that some kind of limited remote control is possible in proximity (as well as obviously control by direct touch).  Both of these would be different from the full somatic link type of control.

possibly, but remember that:

 

A. They're in the Void.

 

B. fleshy Rhino doesn't have any sort of shielding or anything

 

C. Little Nyx, Loki, Ash, etc. are all there with some form of access to their powers. Not to mention they're practically radiating void energy which proto-rhino is likely highly susceptible to. If you knew there was a room full of nukes that could go off, would you walk into the room?

 

Also, it's worth noting that Rhino's codex is questionable at best, we've already been told not to take it into account on a devstream.

[Leavith]

Well lets not make the mistake not all the orokins works were in the void

the zariman kids were a ship traveling that went missing

The sys on the sentients we learn a little bit something regarding you spending time to much in a planet which just goes to show that not everything was in the void

The fact being the Orokin didn't hide in the void themselves it was until the very end they tried escaping towards the void

they made trips and send their ships with things.

In the second dream the moon is in the void because the Lotus as they mention she hid them in the Void to protect them

in the ember prime codex we learn that the officer is on mission and gets a scar by the kid.

what those that tell you

 

Mirage if we want simple explanation for her is this

what if mirage is the name of the original warframe containing not a puppet but the actual zariman child

before anything we can suggest mirage in the mission was to outrages for what she can do

after fighting the sentient one on one in the second dream mission those things are not push over it would require something like direct link or to be one with your warframe to access that much excessive power to tear those guys like that.i would say Madurai school anyone anyways Wow for the Madurai been killing sentient with our bear hands since 1990

Edited December 7, 2015 by Leavith

[Omnimorph]

possibly, but remember that:

 

A. They're in the Void.

 

B. fleshy Rhino doesn't have any sort of shielding or anything

 

C. Little Nyx, Loki, Ash, etc. are all there with some form of access to their powers. Not to mention they're practically radiating void energy which proto-rhino is likely highly susceptible to. If you knew there was a room full of nukes that could go off, would you walk into the room?

 

Also, it's worth noting that Rhino's codex is questionable at best, we've already been told not to take it into account on a devstream.

 

I don't think it's the Void, I think it's Lua.  IIRC somewhere in the TSD dialogue (it might be the Margulis bit) someone mentions some success on Lua, that seems to tie into the Rhino codex.

 

Fleshy Rhino is also partly metal (metal claws or something, IIRC).

 

I don't think it's clear that at that stage there are Nyx, or any of the others.  This seems to be the first "proof of concept" incident on Lua, i.e. proof of concept that the Zariman kids can control the Warframe golems while they're dreaming.  It's like the beginnings of the whole thing, but after the kids are rescued, and after Margulis tries to figure out a way to help them.

 

I get the sense that the "proto-Warframe" experimentation is related more to the Golem (J3) experimentation - i.e. it's another attempt to find something to fight the Sentients with.  The Zariman kids are in the same facility, and this is (accidentally-on-purpose) the first time a Tenno actually grabs control of one of these things.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Omnimorph