New Stalker Is Awful

[ShakeyMac]

I see all these people talking about how you have to "git gud" and how easy it is to fight SS now.

 

Let me ask all of you a question....what would you change in my case?  This is my moon mission/anti-SS loadout;

 

Tonkor, set up for blast/toxin.

Lex Prime, set up for Puncture/viral or Puncture/Corrosive (depends on melee setup).

Dragon Nikana or Jet Kittag, setup for either Slash{Impact}/Rad/Viral, or Slash{Impact}/Corrosive/Electric.

 

All of them are hard hitting weapons.  I'll open up with Tonkor on SS (or a Sentient) and after 3-4 shots the blast/toxin combo isn't working.  This will take off, at most, half life.  So I swap to the Lex, and I'll get maybe another 1/4 or 1/3 life off my target before the resistance kicks in.  At this point, SS or a Sentient will be at about  20% or so, and I'll go (carefully) into melee.  Whether it's DN or JK, I'll get a Sentient down to maybe 5% before they're now immune to my melee, so I'll generally swap back to the Lex and chip them down from there (which takes about as much time as the first 90% of their life did).  Eventually, the Sentient will die, but it takes a good bit.  Using Tonkor or my melee, despite the different damage types, doesn't change anything, as the Sentient will still be resistant.

 

SS is worse, because he regens shields, which gain the benefit of his damage resistance.  Dodging his attacks is easy.  Landing shots on him is easy.  Actually doing damage, despite having fairly well-modded gear (rank 7 and 8 Serration/Hornet Strike, max 104% crit rate for Tonkor, max Barrel Diffusion on Lex, max Pressure Point/Spoiled strike on melee with max or near-max elemental mods) becomes impossible.

 

So I don't think it's an issue of "git gud."  I think it's an issue of some mechanic in the arsenal of SS (and by extension, the Sentient) that is not working correctly.  Building up resistance to damage types is fine, and presents a new challenge that shakes up the meta of how people typically approach a mission.  But that resistance needs to either have a time limit to it (i.e. resistance to a damage type slowly decays over a period of time until it eventually hits 0) or else when one resistance is gained then another needs to be lowered.  Alternatively, another option I heard was to make it so only elemental stuff gets high resistances built up.  Physical damage types would gain minor resistance (no more than 50% reduction), but would still be the preferred means of dealing with adaptive armors.  This is congruent with what's stated about the Sentient, how they turn high-tech weapons against their users, and the Orokin had to resort to "zero-tech" stuff like percussion rifles.

 

But hey, maybe I'm wrong.  So tell me, with my setup, what am I doing wrong?  What could I do better?  I'm landing shots, avoiding damage, playing smart, setting up my loadout correctly....what else is there to do?

Edited December 16, 2015 by ShakeyMac

[ThePredicament]

If it's required to have a full set of specific equipment (hard hitting, no quick autos), requiring "diverse" builds in missions that don't need it (read:neutering gear), then it's bad design, simple as that. You can mental gymnast your way into some S#&$ty rationale but the fact is, the adaptation aspect of the Stalker (and less scope, Sentients) is fundamentally flawed or just bugged.

[Inarticulate]

-snip-

 

Huh. I'm thinking you might be switching weapons a bit too early. I can normally get a Sentient or the Shadow Stalker down to 10-20% health with a single hard-hitting weapon.

 

With Ivara, Artemis Bow (+Radiation) will take the Stalker to around 10% health (you have under half a second to fire it after he becomes vulnerable and before he casts Dispel), making him easily finishable with my Sonicor (+Corrosive, +Blast).

 

If I start with my Sonicor (+Corrosive, +Blast), I can normally get him down to 10-20% and finish him off with one or two shots from my Latron Prime (+Radiation or +Magnetic).

 

Even if I start with my Ignis (+whatever elements are good aganst the resident faction), I have no trouble getting him down to 40-50% before my attacks become ineffective and I'm forced to switch to my Sonicor.

[TimFlint]

You obviously aren't the type of person to play games like Dark Souls and if you do I am disappointing that you can't get past this gripe.

 

Really, Dark Souls? That game was masterfully balanced, every enemy in the right place, every boss fight beatable with any weapon or class. Learn your weapon, learn the enemy attacks and you could (theoretically) go through the game without getting hit even with a bogstandard +0 longsword and no pants (Except maybe the 4 kings fight).

The whole game was a memory and skill check, all based on you being able to quickly identify enemy attacks and being able to time your attacks correctly.

 

Stalker though? He doesn't require skill.

Can you hit a regular human-sized target and evade his fake-prism? Congrats, you got all the skill you need. Preparation? He's random so you can't prepare unless you're always prepared. Have the right gear (read: high burst weapon) on you when he spawns? GG, wipe the floor with him. That's not good design. Oh, you brought an Ignis and are leveling your secondary? Yeah... sorry, you wont beat him. If the game throws a "challenge" at you that you simply cannot beat that's not good design.

 

As for your other "arguments":

2. Then don't get marked by stalker if you can't handle him spawning.

 

Right. Just never unlock any new planets so you could actually acquire the mods required to stand a chance against him. I'm sure that was intended that way.

 

3. He spawns so rarely and inconsistently that to call it unfair is rubbish. If a enemy has a 1%  chance to spawn, that isn't a high enough chance to warrent him being easy and fair. He is by lore standards suppose to be unfair.

Any challenge a game presents SHOULD be beatable. Noone's talking about making the Stalker easy, in fact I'd argue that if you bring a Hek or Tigris with you on every mission he already IS way too easy. Wait till he stands up, apply shotgun to the face, done.

But on the point of it doesn't matter if it's unfair: would you be ok with just randomly failing 1 in 100 missions? I mean, that chance is so low, it'd be rubbish to call that unfair, right? Wrong. The game should reward players for playing well, not randomly penalize them for having brought anything but a shotgun.

 

Stalker should be a challenge, not a pushover if you brought the right gear and not a damn near impossible hurdle if you didn't.

[Ocaz]

Just thought I'd update on this because stalker was updated.

 

The essence of this thread: "Shadow Stalker makes me have to adapt and I don't wike it!"

This doesnt help and you are reported for this

 

Fight him with only an unranked rubicor and come back to me on that.

 

I know how to fight sentients, you prick. You have to use different damage types, because they adapt and become immune to your weapons after a certain amount of damage/hits/etc. The problem is that if you don't have an optimal loadout, they'll adapt to everything you have and you'll be reduced to dumping ammo at 1% damage until you kill them. However, if you're going to be fighting sentients, you can be expected to have the right gear.

 

I don't think you should be expected to carry full 'endgame' sentient killing gear with you everywhere, every mission, just in case the shadow stalker decides to show up.

 

As it is, the fight with the Shadow Stalker is not a challenge. It is a gear check. Dodging his attacks is easy. Shooting him a bunch is easy. The only problem is that if you aren't carrying the right gear you'll run out of ammo before you can kill him. The fight should not be a gear check. If the stalker (and sentients for that matter) lost their resistances over time, or when they gained resistance to a new weapon, then you could gear juggle to make fighting them possible with more variety of kits.

I enjoy this gear check post very much so! that is the term i was looking for and yeah, he showed up for me just now and all i had was my Mios and Loki. Focus farming to be specific. There was no point in fighting him whatsoever so i didnt. But he still ruins the mission anyway. Completely alerting every enemy in the area because my invisibility lasted 5 seconds because of him. I had a great chain going didnt miss a beat until he shows up. I wouldnt mind if i could kill him for revenge but nope. Only 1 weapon? Ur screwed. Not even fair whatsoever. Because i wanted to go pure melee theres nothing i can do? excuse my play style but having less weaponry gives more focus points.

 

Honestly hes tiring me out. He seems to show up at least 3 times per day for me now and its only when im farming focus which is a total of 7-10 missions. Its annoying to have to abort because some overpowered enemy shows up and derails it without any consequence to him. theres no range on his dispel he gets u wherever u are. 2 feet in front or 16 rooms away. he was fine before because everything stopped when he showed up. Now i just try to roll the entire room before the 3 flickers happen. Not a very intuitive or cunning boss.

[matto]

I can confirm now that he comes to me when soloing (and fully equiped) the void around once in 5 missions.

[Demon.King]

I realized how stupid the new stalker mechanic is when during the quest I could not kill him and after 5 minutes just assumed he was unkillable for plot convenience. Only to later discover he was killable, but only If you magically knew about the new mechanic before completing the quest.

 

Have killed him quite a few times in groups since, but never met him solo yet, but I know he'll be unkillable unless I gimp my setup for a miniboss that has a 1.5% chance of spawning...

[LordLokai]

As i stated in my thread... new stalker is a push over IF you have end game items, gear, mods, and are fully forma'd and ready for end game. If you  AREN'T one of those people he's literally impossible to beat after X seconds. Also gotta make sure your weapon isn't dealing multible damage types such as lex deals slash and impact...so using the lex vs stalker will net him BOTH immunity to impact slash and perice because it does all 3 types.

 

The mechanic isn't well thought through YES he's now challenging for end game folks to some degree BUT rest of the population who are still trying to reach that point suddenly cant win, NOT because they lack skill to do so, but because he cant be hurt. Giving him ability to become immune to every damage type you have at once is the problem, it needs a timer or something so that we can wait it out and then damage him normally again...as of right now if you don't deal X damage in X shots he becomes immortal or nigh immortal.

 

Edit:

 

Really this whole debate is split between two sides

 

The Haves: Those who HAVE the damage to kill him quickly in a few hits

 

The Have Nots: those who don't and can't kill him because they lack the pew pew...

 

Essentially... requiring X DPS to kill a boss is pretty poor design for a random boss everyone has to fight... basically created a foe that the vast majority of players wont stand a chance against or will have to unload 1000000000000000 bullets to down on there own, even in a group if all 4 players are using same damage types... there weapons become useless during one fight, me and my clan mates fought him...and could not kill him because he became immune to everything we had... we eventually just ran off because was no point to trying to kill a boss has 99% damage reduction, can dispell buiffs and is immune to powers....

 

ya know who the stalker reminds me of? that kid you use to play with that kept saying he was " immune " to everything for " lawl " reasons...  when you were in grade school and use to play outside at recess.... he use to be kind of fun to fight now i just let him kill me or run away because no point in fighting until i have all those elemental mods...

Edited December 19, 2015 by LordLokai

[Ocaz]

I can confirm now that he comes to me when soloing (and fully equipped*) the void around once in 5 missions.

This is quite strange behavior indeed for him as some players report going days without him yet being marked. But him showing up isn't really my point. You indeed cannot stop him from assailing if that's why you bring this up. But, I mostly am referring to his battle tactics and how much of a wall they seem to be to win against.

[Ocaz]

ya know who the stalker reminds me of? that kid you use to play with that kept saying he was " immune " to everything for " lawl " reasons...  when you were in grade school and use to play outside at recess.... he use to be kind of fun to fight now i just let him kill me or run away because no point in fighting until i have all those elemental mods...

I have often compared the stalker to a spoiled rich kid in my times playing the game. He seems to me to be an enemy that always has things handed to him to make him harder to generate buzz on these forums. DE just gives and gives to this archaic clad assassin to make him somewhat relevant. He's received so many buffs to keep making him nothing more than a complete nuisance. Honestly, anyone could have filled the stalker's shoes in the second dream quest. But as i stated before....

 

P.S. There is a bundle in the market literally called "Hunhow's Gift"

Edited December 19, 2015 by Ocaz

[Amorax]

Are people seriously comparing the Stalker to the Dark Souls series? Dark Souls is a masterpiece of a game where they actually thought about how to make the game a challenge. If you learn how to use your weapon and the move-sets of the enemies and bosses you can go through the whole game with any weapon. Some faster than others, but it's possible. That has to do with skill and knowledge.

 

Warframe's 'challenges' are non existent. Bosses with invulnerability stages? That's not challenging, that's just a poor way of extending the fight. Giving them damage reductions? That's not a challenge either, it's again, only extending the fight. Same with the Sorties, they're just giving you silly requirements to make the game 'harder'. All they've done so far is just make the missions take longer, not more difficult. This game is only about having the right gear, not about actually being good at anything. This game is filled with bullet sponges and nothing more.

 

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but please don't compare it to Dark Souls as if Warframe takes 'skill'. Warframe will never get close to that, and probably wasn't intended to ever be.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Amorax

[-N7-Leonhart]

I realized how stupid the new stalker mechanic is when during the quest I could not kill him and after 5 minutes just assumed he was unkillable for plot convenience. Only to later discover he was killable, but only If you magically knew about the new mechanic before completing the quest.

 

Have killed him quite a few times in groups since, but never met him solo yet, but I know he'll be unkillable unless I gimp my setup for a miniboss that has a 1.5% chance of spawning...

 

Funny, I killed him in the quest no problem.

[-N7-Leonhart]

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but please don't compare it to Dark Souls as if Warframe takes 'skill'. Warframe will never get close to that, and probably wasn't intended to ever be.

 

It should be obvious it wasn't meant to be like Dark Souls. Most games aren't meant to be like that. This game is only hard if you want it to be. In Dark Souls you never have the liberty to select the difficulty.

[Demon.King]

Funny, I killed him in the quest no problem.

 

Full formad gear, all maxed mods, all primed mods. One problem, running full corrosive + heat setup. Soma prime and Vaykor Marelok full mag didn't even bring down his shield.

 

Sure it's easy to kill him, only if you knew beforehand of the new mechanic and prepared for it.

[rawr1254]

Only thing I dont like about the new stalker is 90% of the time its Heavy impact 9% of the time dread and then .01%s for every other BP. I have yet to see anything other than Dread BP since his change.

[(PSN)Alphonso-Alonso]

Are people seriously comparing the Stalker to the Dark Souls series? Dark Souls is a masterpiece of a game where they actually thought about how to make the game a challenge. If you learn how to use your weapon and the move-sets of the enemies and bosses you can go through the whole game with any weapon. Some faster than others, but it's possible. That has to do with skill and knowledge.

 

Warframe's 'challenges' are non existent. Bosses with invulnerability stages? That's not challenging, that's just a poor way of extending the fight. Giving them damage reductions? That's not a challenge either, it's again, only extending the fight. Same with the Sorties, they're just giving you silly requirements to make the game 'harder'. All they've done so far is just make the missions take longer, not more difficult. This game is only about having the right gear, not about actually being good at anything. This game is filled with bullet sponges and nothing more.

 

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but please don't compare it to Dark Souls as if Warframe takes 'skill'. Warframe will never get close to that, and probably wasn't intended to ever be.

 

 

Okay cool someone mentioned Dark Souls, this is exactly where I was going with this. You see, Dark Souls is all about memorization of enemy types and setting and playing the meta of the game against itself. So long as you have the capacity to commit something to memory- you can be good at dark souls. Stalker is only hard until you know how to beat him and then you do the same thing over and over again to beat him- except in this case it takes a little more care of the player because you face him so rarely and unexpectedly that you have lesser chances to practice him or 'git gude' as the pros say.

Now, the really bad thing not helping anyone right now is all of the tryhard elite players who take any genuine inquiry regarding help as an opportunity to brag about how 'gude' they 'gawt' at the game. Worse yet it's typically the most obvious form of advice one can expect and is usually delivered in the most destructive way possible to make everyone feel bad about themselves. Perhaps that's lost on me but that doesn't seem very informative or socially nourishing the slightest. I mean, I know what annoyance and anger at this game can be- but come on people just want help.

Now, I get how to beat Shadow Stalker and I will probably optimize my loadout to do it once just for fun, but yeah, responses like the quote above are the reason why I don't particularly like to min-max/optimize/pro/common sense/git gude at a game. Because if I'm constantly in a state of "OMGUMSOPROUGUYZDONTEVENKNOWBRO" then by that very, very, VERRRRRRRRRRRY high criteria I can basically mow down everything in one punch JUST TO FIGHT ONE GUY WHO MAY OR MAY NOT SHOW UP AT ANY PARTICULAR TIME. And yes, that would make the game boring, take away the 'challenge' of it, and also make me irate at people just asking for help on forums. I did the exact same thing in Skyrim just to fight Legendary Ancient Dragons- yes I could kill them with ease but I could also kill the bandits without even trying, not all that fun so I gimped myself in further playthroughs and just avoided the legendary ancient dragons instead. 

 

TL;DR  totally get how this is a fun aspect and fits well into the lore. The Shadow Stalker is a force to be reckoned with and after all this time of hearing about Sentients I would be disappointed if they did in fact turn out to be pushovers. Additionally, Dark Souls is built on competence achieved through memorization and optimization, but if I'm just screwing around, grinding for focus or- and I know I sound like a pleb noob right now to some folks in here- playing a game just to have fun, I really don't want to break out the hulkbuster armor everywhere I go. Sorties are fine for that, I'm enjoying them and have run every single set since the u18 launch, but if I'm just leveling up a new frame or weapon on Saturn then, indeed, I'm most likely just going to abandon the mission or just take a kill from Shadow when he pops up. 

I'm not saying he should be nerfed or even adjusted, I'm just being honest. There's enough room in our universe for people who don't want to reach Saitama Status. 

[(PSN)Alphonso-Alonso]

LAST THING: Forgot to mention, the new revive system totally makes this more tolerable in my opinion at least. So long as this revive system is here to stay I'd say that affords the Dev's license to amp up difficulty. 

[MartinVole]

Only thing I dont like about the new stalker is 90% of the time its Heavy impact 9% of the time dread and then .01%s for every other BP. I have yet to see anything other than Dread BP since his change.

 

This here is my only real problem. He's the only hunter with a weird mook table.