So You Thought Ea And Microsoft's Business Practice Was Deplorable

[Mabuss]

Now imagine a game where in order to access new contents, you have to pay everytime you access the same content. Imagine the S#&$ storm that would happen if you had to pay everytime you went into a WoW raid, or everytime when you go into a Call of Duty map, or when you play on a new map in League of Legends. Never in the history of gaming, has anyone successfullu pulled off a pay-per-play model.

 

Yes, I am talking about the Void key. Of couse I noticed this when I read the patch note on release date, but I waited untill now to make sure I wasn't getting wrong information and the fact most people were concerned with clan/forma. But now we have the information and people seemed to be pass the clan/forma issue, I think it's time we talk about the void keys. If you have any issues with this post, please finish reading before you reply as I wil probably address your point.

 

Of course everyone knows what the Void keys are, so I don't have to explain them. However, it really suprised me that most people don't seem to have a problem with it (I mean a REAL problem). To me, it should be quite clear that the Void key is probably the most sinister, deplorable, and cash-grabing thing that can happen in a game. You have to practically pay everytime you want to access the new content. It is not even behind a pay-wall, it is behind a pay-treadmill. I mean, to be garenteed to go on a tier 3 tower run, I'd have to pay a equivilant of $5, that would be price of DLC for most games.

 

Honestly, I don't think DE purposely did this. They either didn't realize what they were doing or this was a last minute decision. However this is still beta, so they can still correct their mistake or rethink their business model. But if this sort of thing continues, this game will fail and just become another free-to-play game that tried to hard to suck their customer dry.

 

Now I know some of you guys think I'm wrong and already have a response in mind, so I will try to refute them here. So read before you post so you don't make a fool of yourself.

 

Response #1: But you can get the Void keys for free.

 

Refutation: Sure you can, just as you can win the national lottary. With the drop table made available, we can see just how absurdly hard it is to get them. On average, you'd have to play a few hours to get a tier 1 key, tens of hours for a tiers 2 key and at least 100 hours for a tiers 3 key. And we all know that tier 1 and tier 2 keys are nearly useless due to the fact that DE purposely make the component drops unbalanced (that is another really unethical thing they did but that's for another topic).

 

Response #2: But you don't have to go to the Void.

 

Refutation: No I do't have to, but you can say this about every piece of DLC every made for every game. None of them were necessary, but that doesn't mean that the developer/publisher can price them ridiculously.

 

Response #3: I don't hear you *@##$ing about slots/potatoes/forma/etc.

 

Refutation: Slots actually cost server space and have to be maintained, so I'd happily pay for them. As for potatoes/forma/etc., they are fundamentally different from Voidkeys as their effect stay permanent once you get them. Hence as long as the free players are not permanently less effective than paying players, I have no problem with them. However, once the void keys are used, they are gone, and you can potentially get nothing or you've failed the mission. In the end, the Void keys will become nothing more than a slot machines and people will not appreciate it as genuie piece of game content and I feel sorry for the developers for that.

 

Response #4: Why don't I see many other people making a big deal about this?

 

Refutation: Well, strictly speaking the game is still in beta. Just because the game is open to everyone does not mean this is not beta anymore. The beta-ness of a game depends on its degree of completeness. People who play the beta made the effort to play an unfinished game and are biased towards that game, hence they are able to put up with more S#&$. Just look fail games in the past, people would be defending them in the betas, but as soon as the game is released to the public the game failed hard. The responses you get in beta are not always accurate.

 

Response #5: If you don't like it why don't you just leave.

 

Refutation: Well I could, but I see potential in this game that I haven't really seen in a long time, and I'd like to keep playing this game. Would you rather be self-rightous and play this game for a short time untill people figure out this game is horrible, or get off you high horse and change this mistake before its too late and play this game for a long time?

 

Response #6: Stop being a entitled little brat.

 

Refutation: Its not about I want or what I like. It about the principle.

 

Response #7: Its just the business model, that doesn't mean the game will fail.

 

Response: We have seen time and again that the business decisions of games will influce the design aspect of games. Just look at what happen to Diablo 3 and Simcity. When the business decisions are those that try too hard to monetize, the game will almost certainly fail.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Mabuss

[Reemer]

Implying you HAVE to pay to get void keys.

Edit: Implying void keys are really that rare.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Reemer

[Blatantfool]

 I get keys fairly often. I'm not seeing the trouble here hombre.

[Cinderain]

You think DE is worse than EA and Microsoft? Seriously?

 

Really?

 

Seriously?

 

For real?

 

You're kidding, right?

 

Right?

 

You have to be.

 

I don't even know how someone could come to the conclusion that DE is even close to being like them, but jumping all the way up to being worse?

 

That was a good laugh, thank you.

[Luminati07]

I just....

I won't even dignify this with a response.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Nugget_

[Cinderain]

I just,,,,

I won't even dignify this with a response.

 

Too bad you responded to say that.

[Killist]

I get 3~5 void keys for playing about 2~5 hour. While most are tier 1 and 2, I do get some tier 3 keys and I did not spend hundreds of hours grinding for them. I just play few defense, mobile defense, do some low level runs with my low level friends and I have enough keys to last me a quite a while.

 

Also, drop rate has been changed so that Reaper Prime, Latron Prime and Frost Primes are all quite easy to get.

I do not see problem with this at all. 

If you wanna see some really messed up microtransaction, try anything made by Perfect World Entertainment

[wkfire]

Response #8: Your Response #7's refutation is not a 'Refutation' but a 'Response'

 

Back onto topic, rebutting your first refute, as long as things are free, it means that DE has given us a way out. Spending plats on Void key packs is just a faster way of getting them. It is like farming BPs for frame parts from Bosses. You either choose to farm for it the 'free-way' or use plats to go by the shorter, faster and easier way out. 

 

The rewards you get from voids cannot be found on the market, except for the Formas, therefore it should be harder to access the void. 

 

Back to the point, even if keys are dropped at 0.1% rate, it means that it is still possible to get them without paying plats for it.

Edited June 3, 2013 by wkfire

[cknives]

 I get keys fairly often. I'm not seeing the trouble here hombre.

How many Tier 2 and 3s have you found your self in game? Don't lie now! We know the drop table.

[Venarge]

How many Tier 2 and 3s have you found your self in game? Don't lie now! We know the drop table.

I found 3 T3 exterminates.

 

This thread is a joke. Comparing EA to DE is not even funny. You can get everything by playing. But the problem here is that patience became the rarest super power in the world.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Venarge

[rawrifficus]

Now imagine a game where in order to access new contents, you have to pay everytime.

 

Didn't read past this. They already exist and they're called expansions.

[Arlayn]

I get void keys all the time from defense missions. ANYWHERE from Venus, to where ever... Void keys are a cake walk to get...

[Mabuss]

Response #8: Your Response #7's refutation is not a 'Refutation' but a 'Response'

 

Back onto topic, rebutting your first refute, as long as things are free, it means that DE has given us a way out. Spending plats on Void key packs is just a faster way of getting them. It is like farming BPs for frame parts from Bosses. You either choose to farm for it the 'free-way' or use plats to go by the shorter, faster and easier way out. 

 

The rewards you get from voids cannot be found on the market, except for the Formas, therefore it should be harder to access the void. 

 

Back to the point, even if keys are dropped at 0.1% rate, it means that it is still possible to get them without paying plats for it.

 

Check Response #3

[JHarlequin]

 Not much should be said.  Basically, keys are rare, so what, if you want them, try for them.

 

 You don't have to pay for them.  Realize though that there are other people that will.  Ride along, or did you annoy enough people that no one invites you to go to the void?

 

 As for your possible comments and pre-answers, you get a bit of credit for not using the automatic responses, but you have still exaggerated the situation.

 

 As for your comparison to EA or Microsoft, those companies haven't really done anything wrong anyway.  They are taking really annoying and useless steps to reduce piracy and used game sales, but there is nothing stopping them from doing it.  Much in the same way as one of the arguments, if people didn't want the games, they wouldn't put up with those business practices.  Much in the same way of one of your responses, people see promise in the games and so they still play them.  Consider also that the major differences between the companies and their games are that DE is presenting a mostly free product with some premiums avaialble.  EA and Microsoft provide a product for a large cost, add additional content very rarely and charge for it everytime.  To put a spin on it, if EA and Microsoft weren't gouging pockets, you and many other people wouldn't be here playing the much more affordable DE product of "Warframe",

[Mabuss]

Didn't read past this. They already exist and they're called expansions.

Let me fix that

"Now imagine a game where in order to access new contents, you have to pay everytime you access the same content."

[Blatantfool]

How many Tier 2 and 3s have you found your self in game? Don't lie now! We know the drop table.

 

 2 T3's and 5 T2's. Io - Jupiter is my hunting grounds because of speed and ease.

[cknives]

I found 3 T3 exterminates.

So you found ~3000 runs worth of T3 keys. My god i want your luck. Go buy a lottery ticket.

 

Unless of course you actually did 3000 runs in which case you should probably go outside every once in a while.

[FlanShark]

I found 3 T3 exterminates.

a whole 3!

the OP is being ridiculously melodramatic but his basic point is imho correct. The void is some of the best content DE have yet come up with and its behind a wall of grind or 'micro'transactions. (and don't say "but keys are common!" because T3 ones aren't and GL getting your latron prime etc from t1/2)

Personally though, I imagine this will be fixed when DE-Scott's reviewed the defence reward tiering :)

in other words, OP should read DE's communication posts in the forums up above this one, before embarking on big ranty walls of text~

Edited June 3, 2013 by FlanShark

[Mabuss]

 Not much should be said.  Basically, keys are rare, so what, if you want them, try for them.

 

 You don't have to pay for them.  Realize though that there are other people that will.  Ride along, or did you annoy enough people that no one invites you to go to the void?

 

 As for your possible comments and pre-answers, you get a bit of credit for not using the automatic responses, but you have still exaggerated the situation.

 

 As for your comparison to EA or Microsoft, those companies haven't really done anything wrong anyway.  They are taking really annoying and useless steps to reduce piracy and used game sales, but there is nothing stopping them from doing it.  Much in the same way as one of the arguments, if people didn't want the games, they wouldn't put up with those business practices.  Much in the same way of one of your responses, people see promise in the games and so they still play them.  Consider also that the major differences between the companies and their games are that DE is presenting a mostly free product with some premiums avaialble.  EA and Microsoft provide a product for a large cost, add additional content very rarely and charge for it everytime.  To put a spin on it, if EA and Microsoft weren't gouging pockets, you and many other people wouldn't be here playing the much more affordable DE product of "Warframe",

 

I never said this is wrong, Just as that there is nothing "wrong" if I slap every person i come in contact with, but eventually no one will want to be my friend.

[Endorphinz]

Well like, you still got the whole rest of the game to explore. I thought they were going to be adding new systems and whatnot. The towers are like a little bonus area for you if your luck is good (or you have a few extra dollars to spend).

[machinatedelta]

I honestly think that butthurt players shouldnt be creating such massive threads and quote such a giant knowledge of the game with only 8 posts previous. I know I only have a few but seriously. Go eat an apple product or something.

[MetalGerbil]

join a clan, have ONE dude get a key. 4 people can now get to the void.

make it a thing. thursdays are void runs, save your keys gents. lets get everybody in the happy boat.

sir, your tinfoil hat is on too tight.

im primarily solo and even i saw how that was aimed towards group play.

Edited June 3, 2013 by MetalGerbil

[cknives]

 2 T3's and 5 T2's. Io - Jupiter is my hunting grounds because of speed and ease.

So weird.

 

I have found 15 tier 1 keys.

 

0 tier 2s

0 tier 3s

 

 

My total farming time on xini or higher since u8 is well over 10 hours.

 

My total farming time on IO is well over 15 hours.

 

My misc time every where else i don't even know probably around another 10 hours.

[Arlayn]

a whole 3!

the OP is being ridiculously melodramatic but his basic point is imho correct. The void is some of the best content DE have yet come up with and its behind a wall of grind or 'micro'transactions. (and don't say "but keys are common!" because T3 ones aren't and GL getting your latron prime etc from t1/2)

Personally though, I imagine this will be fixed when DE-Scott's reviewed the defence reward tiering :)

in other words, OP should read DE's communication posts in the forums up above this one, before embarking on big ranty walls of text~

I don't care if its T3 or T1... man I am just going to rock the game... besides T3 is just a pain to play with or without people... why bother... just give me more T1s I will be happy.

[Quetzhal]

I personally feel it's problematic that the endgame is most easily accessible through painfully boring repetition of low-level missions. I mean, this is endgame content we're talking about - we shouldn't really be repeatedly running Io or M Prime to get it. That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Edit: Also it encourages speedrunning of low-level missions. Bad impression on the new folks.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Quetzhal