Pls Just Remove Stagger And Knockdown From Pvp

[sLashx189]

cmon what other pvp game have u seen with stagger and knockdown that is "balanced", for god sakes the stupid mod that gives u immunity to knockdown and stagger is broken and doesnt even work, pls just pls, REMOVE IT, knockBACK  would be good but i say neigh to knockdowns

[----Dante----]

all CC from powers should be removed.

[Dzecar]

git gud

[sLashx189]

git gud

i would like to see a rhino go against a loki with max mobility spamming a jat kittag and sonicor :/

[Shin]

Nah. No need. Just fix the mods. Knockdowns and staggers are fine. Its the players who should be doing more than standing infront of the CC frames or slams. Game is all about mobility, use it.

[sLashx189]

Nah. No need. Just fix the mods. Knockdowns and staggers are fine. Its the players who should be doing more than standing infront of the CC frames or slams. Game is all about mobility, use it.

you will probably be dead by the first knockdown by a skilled player tbh

[Lordricker]

i find kitag users to be really punishable, even the good players still miss and have recovery time which makes easy targets

[Naftal]

Only problem I have with stagger/knockdowns is with random lag since most of these are aoe stuff.

 

I know I dodged it but apparently not and got punished for it.

 

But this won't be fixed with anything else than dedicated servers.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Naftal

[Shin]

you will probably be dead by the first knockdown by a skilled player tbh

I dont usually get knocked down since i dont stay on ground more than one second if im not trying to kill someone with my melee weapon. Also it doesnt take skill to kill someone with a knockdown. Its called punishing. Plus if they miss their chance, they die them moment you get up.

[JeyciKon]

my solution is easy: damage reduction for 1 sec if stunned/knocked down or other CC

Edited December 28, 2015 by JeyciKon

[Nighttide77]

>_> there are plenty of other games with mechanics that open players up for free hits...even stun-locks. Mortal Kombat's Sub Zero and Scorpion, anyone? How about Super Smash Bros with grabs and such?

The difference is that those other games at least have some telegraphing and/or counter-play that allows a stunned player to somehow get out of the situation faster. Warframe doesn't have those mechanics, yet, but desperately needs them.

[Kai_Shiba]

>_> there are plenty of other games with mechanics that open players up for free hits...even stun-locks. Mortal Kombat's Sub Zero and Scorpion, anyone? How about Super Smash Bros with grabs and such?

The difference is that those other games at least have some telegraphing and/or counter-play that allows a stunned player to somehow get out of the situation faster. Warframe doesn't have those mechanics, yet, but desperately needs them.

Dark souls too

[Nighttide77]

my solution is easy: damage reduction for 1 sec if stunned/knocked down or other CC

^ I've been advocating for that sort of thing for a while, too.

I mean, against some players it's very hard to knock down or stagger, and some might say they should be rewarded for the effort put into getting someone knocked down. At the same time, no other successful game ever seems to so easily reward a frag on a stunned player without some extra effort.

[Pythadragon]

I think that a big issue here is that there is not enough gradient between

- Normal

- Slow

- Stagger/knockdown

 

Stagger/knockdown both temporarily take away full player autonomy. You can neither move, shoot, nor use abilities while staggerdowned. This is incredibly powerful for such a prevalent status that so many things inflict upon players.

 

Why not convert some of the stagger/knockdowns into slows (of varying degrees of effect) instead?

 

Slow as a pvp mechanic can be explored in a few different ways:

- Duration

- Slow movement percentage

- Slow melee attack percentage

- Slow gun percentage

- Slow castspeed percentage

 

Or convert some of the staggerdowns into more 'unique' status effects.

 

For example, why not replace some staggers with fist weapons with 'temporary disarm' instead? Or ammo steal/energy drain/ect.

 

Just food for thought.

 

TLDR:

Stagger/knockdown is overused and removes too much player autonomy (too powerful). There are many more interesting status effects that are built into the game that can be substituted instead.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Pythadragon

[Naqel]

CC on melee/powers is an important part of their functionality, and should not be removed.

What should happen, is restricting that effect to scenarios in which the target might be inclined to turn and run: their shields are depleted.

 

Shields should act, both in PvP and PvE, as a layer of protection that immunizes the player to all of the most harsh/frustrating effects of enemy attacks.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Naqel

[Nighttide77]

A temporary disarm would be amazing.

That and maybe an Energy Leech on melee hit effect.

[Marrt]

Staggers and knockdowns are powerful because they can be easily avoided.

/case

Skill-avoidance is a different problem

Edited December 29, 2015 by Marrt

[sLashx189]

>_> there are plenty of other games with mechanics that open players up for free hits...even stun-locks. Mortal Kombat's Sub Zero and Scorpion, anyone? How about Super Smash Bros with grabs and such?

The difference is that those other games at least have some telegraphing and/or counter-play that allows a stunned player to somehow get out of the situation faster. Warframe doesn't have those mechanics, yet, but desperately needs them.

well atleast they have some way to counter it, all we have is a stupid broken mod xD

[Marrt]

well atleast they have some way to counter it, all we have is a stupid broken mod xD

Nehza s first prevents knockdown. Atlas cannot be knocked down, roll prevents kbockdown, some weapons prevent knockdown while swinging...

There, some ways.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Marrt

[Azarakidragon]

I like reading through these until someone reminds me that the only reason I hate knockdown and stagger is because they can happen while I'm 10 meters above the enemy due to p2p, and that all my problems can be solved with dedicated servers. I'd really like to play the game in that kind of setting, and then I'll actually make my opinion on knockdown and stagger since lag usually just removes the counterplay.

[Nighttide77]

I like reading through these until someone reminds me that the only reason I hate knockdown and stagger is because they can happen while I'm 10 meters above the enemy due to p2p, and that all my problems can be solved with dedicated servers. I'd really like to play the game in that kind of setting, and then I'll actually make my opinion on knockdown and stagger since lag usually just removes the counterplay.

One might say the majority of PvP's issues and frustrations could be resolved with dedicated servers, heh.

[rockscl]

One might say the majority of PvP's issues and frustrations could be resolved with dedicated servers, heh.

 

and since there isnt even recognition about the issue from the Devs we can only hope for balance under high latency as a parameter

[SevenLetterKWord]

 

cmon what other pvp game have u seen with stagger and knockdown that is "balanced", for god sakes the stupid mod that gives u immunity to knockdown and stagger is broken and doesnt even work, pls just pls, REMOVE IT, knockBACK  would be good but i say neigh to knockdowns

 

Oh boy, another chance to have this conversation.

 

Removing content is never the best option. Advocating for removal is a sign of personal bias, and serves only to weaken your own credibility.

 

Anyone who says that a certain item should be removed from Conclave... automatically forfeits all credibility in my eyes.

If it's broken, it can be fixed. Removing things we don't like or can't deal with is a cop-out move.

 

 

And what's this about "knockBACK"? What kind of sense does that make?

Staggers and knockdowns are dealt primarily by melee weapons... why would a melee user want to knock his/her target out of melee range?

 

i would like to see a rhino go against a loki with max mobility spamming a jat kittag and sonicor :/

You realize that Rhino has an easy go-to skill which makes him immune to staggers and knockdowns, right?

Plus, a Loki with max mobility spamming Jat Kittag is going to be ridiculously easy to kill, provided you can dodge just one slam.

And the Sonicor is just laughable. You cannot be seriously intimidated by the Sonicor.

 

you will probably be dead by the first knockdown by a skilled player tbh

And if you're a skilled player, you won't let that first knockdown happen.

 

You seem to have assumed that the game starts with you in knockdown.

Exercise a little situational awareness, and you'll notice that knockdowns are not that difficult to avoid.

 

my solution is easy: damage reduction for 1 sec if stunned/knocked down or other CC

Your "easy solution" is also unsatisfactory for skilled gameplay.

 

I cannot agree with passive damage reduction. That's simply unskillful.

"Oh, I received a powerful hit, but it's okay. I'll just become immune for my entire vulnerable period..."

 

It seems like a good time to introduce the idea of breakfalls, which were asked for long ago in PvE.

(Teching, if you've played SSB.)

It provides a way to respond defensively to knockdowns after you've been hit by them, by allowing you to control your momentum, provided that you were able to react and provide some input in time.

It would take more effort to implement than simple damage reduction, but would be infinitely more interesting, infinitely more skillful, and would also benefit the base game.

 

 

 

and since there isnt even recognition about the issue from the Devs we can only hope for balance under high latency as a parameter

"balance under high latency"?

Latency is going to affect everything. You can't balance "under high latency", unless you want to turn Warframe into some turn-based game.

[rockscl]

"balance under high latency"?

Latency is going to affect everything. You can't balance "under high latency", unless you want to turn Warframe into some turn-based game.

 

it is balanced under high latency, thats why a lot of things are borderline reliable, because the other guy notices hes getting shot 200 ms late