Can Someone Please Explain/defend The Prime Vault?

[WolfTitan]

What DE should do is to vault more items but massively shorten the duration between each opening of the prime vault. This also ensures that prices don't skyrocket as much after the vault closes.

I feel that there is still too much stuff in the void drop tables. DE should move some of them into the Derelict and into A and B rounds.

[BornWithTeeth]

Mang, if horrible monster ninjas are not your thing then you may not have a great experience ahead of you. That said, how do you feel about Loki Prime?

[Corvyr]

Mang, if horrible monster ninjas are not your thing then you may not have a great experience ahead of you. That said, how do you feel about Loki Prime?

 

Yeah, I realize I'm probably not the target as far as aesthetics are concerned, but I figured if I at least liked one then I would be fine.  I liked a few of them until I saw them in game, unfortunately.

 

I'd have to see Loki Prime in game.  The picture looks like it adds fat thigh armor, which I think is what ruins most of the frames for me.  They look all look like pears.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Short answer, no it's all quite disgusting and undefendable. Founders pack being pc exclusive is just a tip of a huge dung pile. Up to you whether to devote any time or money to this game.

[onieyez]

End game is having so many formas that you wish you could craft more than 1 at a time

 

but nope, they just keep stacking up and you will never get them all crafted... unless you stop farming

 

most of the time this game is just wait 3 days for that frame to be crafted

wait for formas

farm up that weapon to 30 and trash it

syndicate xp, focus xp

maybe a raid if someone is hosting

and ofcourse resource farming-

 

--------------

 

the vaulted thing... how hard would've it have been to add interception 1-2-3?

oh well too hard, just vault old frames

Edited January 19, 2016 by onieyez

[Kai_Shiba]

Short answer, no it's all quite disgusting and undefendable. Founders pack being pc exclusive is just a tip of a huge dung pile.

 

Edited January 19, 2016 by KJRenz

[mooser6]

If the aesthetics of 90% of the warframes in the game are causing you this much distress, you should probably just go find another game. There are thousands of players who don't worry about it, even though some of us find certain frame designs a bit silly. It's ok if Warframe is not for you, but your complaint comes off very troll ish.

 

 

edited to add...

 

Also, if a few items being currently unobtainable is upsetting, you might off yourself once you face the wrath of RNGesus in trying to get things that are obtainable to drop. Better quit while you're ahead.

Edited January 19, 2016 by mooser6

[BornWithTeeth]

Yeah, I realize I'm probably not the target as far as aesthetics are concerned, but I figured if I at least liked one then I would be fine.  I liked a few of them until I saw them in game, unfortunately.

 

I'd have to see Loki Prime in game.  The picture looks like it adds fat thigh armor, which I think is what ruins most of the frames for me.  They look all look like pears.

 

 

Ok, let's see.

 

How do you feel about.....

 

 

Mag, normal?

 

Nova/Nova Prime?

 

Nezha?

 

Valkyr?

 

Nyx/Nyx Prime?

 

Rhino/Rhino Prime?

 

Ash/Ash Prime?

 

 

Those are all Warframes with quite clean lines and very humanoid bodies.

[(XBOX)Skode]

Alas the Prime tease... there is scant real negatives to say using Ember instead of Ember Prime but people would have the newer players believe different. All normal variants are available - id seek those out instead. I too will never get Excal Prime but i dont even care - its the same powers whatever version you have, fun level is same regardless.

 

Take Ivara - universal praise shes had... will an Ivara prime REALLY make her obsolete? Some seem to believe so (likely so they can flog you the parts in trade haha)

[(XBOX)Astray TurnRed]

Excalibur Prime will never return. It was only available back when Warframe was starting out back in it's early days. Called the Founders pack. Which was about $50 to $250. It was already stated by the Developers that it will never return ever again.

 

Prime vaults however have a chance. There are times when it opens and you will be able to get the parts. A few months ago, Frost prime returned for a few weeks but he has been vaulted again.

 

If you want.

 

Rhino prime, Ankryos prime and Boltor prime are on the next list to be Vaulted when the new prime access comes out, though it will be announced when it will, so stay tuned.

 

Don't worry, Vaulted things have a chance to come back.

[Kai_Shiba]

 

 

 

No need to re-qoute me

[(XBOX)Astray TurnRed]

No need to re-qoute me

Just did.

[Rydian]

I highly doubt you could find an item in any major modern MMO that new players are unable to obtain that gives even a small statistical advantage to the current endgame.

Then rise up to the challenge and name some you've played that don't. :P

 

Even if you could, I would say that is equally as poor of a choice.

It's not always a conscious design decision from the start, sometimes things are made unobtainable accidentally and overlooked due to not having better stats than existing items (if things are outclassed players are much less likely to complain), or things are temporarily removed due to oversaturation, or sometimes things are deemed OP and removed but then the game stops major maintenance due to age (D2), etc.

 

Don't prime warframes also come with extra/different polarities?  Does that not affect the potential loadouts you can get?

Most do, Ember Prime doesn't, but even then nobody brings it up because Forma allows you to add/change polarities.  I have some gear that I've literally added 6 new polarities to.

 

Warframe is not some competitive game with tiered characters.  The actual differences between prime and non-prime frames are minor, especially in the endgame where tactics and frame abilities matter more than defensive stats.

[321agemo]

Well i guess I'll start by saying welcome to warframe.

First off, excalibur prime:

Excalibur Prime, along with Skana Prime and Lato Prime, are founder exclusive. Think of it as a kickstarter as you will. DE have stated many time these items will never return ingame or purchasable. In a rather crude way of putting it, help us get this game off the ground and we will give u this special exclusive item.

Game gets the funding, founders get their shiny stuff, free players enjoy a bucket load of content.

Once the initial funding was established, founders program was no longer needed.

In regards to prime vault:

There are 7 farmable prime warframes, and alot of prime weapons that fill up the drop table of the void. There are also cores and formas that are available as well meaning an even larger drop table.

While i agree that void items could be distributed better and even consider moving some of the more common prime parts to be in derelict, at some point in time we would just be delaying the inevitable.

There are 22 (someone check that number for me) warframes at the moment, all of which are eligible to be primed, along with at least one other item along with them. Now imagine if nothing got removed and we had to farm for that specific frame. The undertaking grind would be huge.

Some people then suggested adding an additional tier of void e.g. T5sur, and put new items in there. The problem with this is instead of void drop table dilution, you get void key dilution.

Raise your hand if anyone actually tried farming frost prime and found the grind was quite heavy. Now imagine adding all the vaulted warframe back inside and then doubling the number of items in each rotation. You can see where im going with this.

[Corvyr]

Then rise up to the challenge and name some you've played that don't. :P

 

WoW, SWTOR, ESO, FFXIV.  I've played many more but I'm not as familiar with their current states to say for certain that they don't have any such items, though I would still wager that they don't.  Most people are in agreement that anything non-cosmetic should not be locked away and modern MMO design seems to follow that belief.  I can't imagine any popular MMO implementing some "grandfathered" non-cosmetic benefit and not having their forums explode.

 

Excalibur Prime, along with Skana Prime and Lato Prime, are founder exclusive. Think of it as a kickstarter as you will. DE have stated many time these items will never return ingame or purchasable. In a rather crude way of putting it, help us get this game off the ground and we will give u this special exclusive item.

 

I get it, but as I just said to the person above, most developers are extremely cautious about giving statistically better exclusive items as backer rewards.  Again, most people react very negatively to these types of backer rewards.  I've backed four or five games at this point and none of them have had such rewards.

 

I really don't mean to sound like I'm just coming in here and attacking the game.  Someone accused me of trolling earlier...that's not the case.  I feel like I'm being put on the defensive so I need to keep explaining myself, which I guess keep coming off as attacks...

 

Trust me when I say that no one wants me to find an online game that I enjoy more than I do.

[Ashnal]

 

As a new player of about three days, it just appears like this is an unnecessary inconvenience to me.  The only non-prime warframe that I like is Excalibur, and I'll never be able to get the prime version of that.  The only prime warframes I like are locked away for an indeterminate amount of time.

 

This has seriously killed my enthusiasm for playing this game.  I was looking forward to putting in some time to earn things in this game, but now I'm finding out there are things that I cannot earn - no matter how much time and effort I put into getting them - for what appear to be arbitrary reasons.

 

I really hope I am missing something and my current interpretation is inaccurate, because these last few days of playing have been pretty fun.  With so many goals being blocked by invisible walls, however, I don't think it will remain as fun for very long.

 

You can earn them if you put the effort into it though.

 

Simply farm the void for rare and desired prime parts. Then sell them in trade chat for platinum. Then use that platinum to buy the prime frames you desire from another player that still has the parts. For example, I still have Frost P, Ember P, and Rhino P sets in my inventory waiting to be sold to someone who wants to buy them.

[Kaisty]

DE prime vault = Disney's Vault. They do it so they can swap out the primes in vault runs while keeping the drop tables the same. Also, it provides a minor boost in trading for prime parts because we don't have an actual time table for when they are brought back out.

 

If DE really didn't care for the whole drop table dilution and just wanted it done, they always have the option of just making every void run give you ducats that you can exchange with some credits for the parts of prime weapons so you can build it at your leisure. But at the same time that would kill the prime part trading, and yet it would be another grind wall that would slow down the progression of folks just doing the meta of "Rhino Prime + Bolter Prime" combo.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

I get it, but as I just said to the person above, most developers are extremely cautious about giving statistically better exclusive items as backer rewards.  Again, most people react very negatively to these types of backer rewards.  I've backed four or five games at this point and none of them have had such rewards.

 

I really don't mean to sound like I'm just coming in here and attacking the game.  Someone accused me of trolling earlier...that's not the case.  I feel like I'm being put on the defensive so I need to keep explaining myself, which I guess keep coming off as attacks...

 

Trust me when I say that no one wants me to find an online game that I enjoy more than I do.

This is very likely why this sort of thing isn't seen very often past the Founder's program. 

To be frank, I imagine the Founder's program has a love/hate relationship with the developers. Of course, it supplied the game with the funds to allow it to thrive as it is today, but the controversy and issues surrounding this decision (that they will not go back on their word about, as that would be an even worse decision) is probably why we can obtain Prime gear, why the exclusive content released since then has only been cosmetic.

[321agemo]

I get it, but as I just said to the person above, most developers are extremely cautious about giving statistically better exclusive items as backer rewards. Again, most people react very negatively to these types of backer rewards. I've backed four or five games at this point and none of them have had such rewards.

I really don't mean to sound like I'm just coming in here and attacking the game. Someone accused me of trolling earlier...that's not the case. I feel like I'm being put on the defensive so I need to keep explaining myself, which I guess keep coming off as attacks...

Trust me when I say that no one wants me to find an online game that I enjoy more than I do.

Hmm... I see your point. To be honest though, the initial release of excalibur prime and its weapons weren't actually statistically better. It was just closer to a reskin.

I have even heard some founders say they wouldn't have minded that they had just released them as a skin for the base frame and weapon. You can still see this original intention in both mag and frost primed counterpart. Both vanilla and prime had sames stats, where the difference only was that prime version had a special quirk with death orbs.

But i guess with the evolution of the game, the meaning of prime items got abit different and hence why we're getting slight stats different and probably why excal p got a buff during excal rework.

However the stats different is still only marginal and really doesnt effect much.

Edited January 19, 2016 by 321agemo

[Rydian]

WoW, SWTOR, ESO, FFXIV.  I've played many more but I'm not as familiar with their current states to say for certain that they don't have any such items, though I would still wager that they don't.  Most people are in agreement that anything non-cosmetic should not be locked away and modern MMO design seems to follow that belief.  I can't imagine any popular MMO implementing some "grandfathered" non-cosmetic benefit and not having their forums explode.

- World of Warcraft

http://www.wowhead.com/item=33494/amani-divining-staff

http://www.wowhead.com/item=33976/brewfest-ram

http://www.wowhead.com/item=41133/unhatched-mr-chilly

 

- Star Wars: The Old Republic

http://tor-decorating.com/category/standardized/source/unobtainable/

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=677639

 

- Elder Scrolls Online

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/152449/rare-unobtainable-discontinued-items-lets-make-a-list-also-a-question-for-zenimax

[size=1](Not sure how up to date that list is, but it shows that stuff does pop in and out at least.)[/size]

 

- Final Fantasy 14

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/245gl3/are_there_many_unobtainable_armor_pieces/

 

If I had ever played any of those games I'd probably have better examples, but a quick google search showed that all of them do have unobtainable items, for one reason or another.

 

 

I can't imagine any popular MMO implementing some "grandfathered" non-cosmetic benefit and not having their forums explode.

Well, people tend to get over the fact that the world doesn't revolve around them.

Games don't start existing the moment a specific player picks it up, and things change.

[Corvyr]

None of those are statistically relevant to max level characters.

[(XBOX)SKWRLY]

My first aesthetic impressions of the warframes were much the same as you. I thought "God, that's freakin' ugly!" But after playing with them for a while the really started to grow on me. I thought Vaughan was the ugliest thing I ever saw, then I decked him out with some eximus colors and his alt skin, and now he's just one of my many frames of royalty. Honestly I think after discovering how these warframes are used and enjoying them you develop a certain respect and appreciation for their individual look. Like trinities lobster butt. You can't miss it!

Edited January 19, 2016 by (XB1)B SKWRLY

[Rydian]

None of those are statistically relevant to max level characters.

And just 25 extra base armor is not relevant to endgame WF.

 

Given that you didn't know about the Forma system, I honestly suggest you get more experience with the game.  Stats are moddable, Warframe does not have overall tiers of frames, and different things matter in different situations.  I don't have Excalibur Prime, and while I may not like it, I'm not going to complain because it wouldn't make any difference in my in-game performance (and it's not coming back anyways, end of story).

 

Lots of players come into the game, ask about frame tiers, get told "There's no tiers", think "people are full of it" or "they just don't know", then they get more experience with the game and realize "Oh people are right, different frames for different situations".  I'd take a non-prime Frost for defense over an Excalibur Prime any day of the week, for example.

 

Does Frost Prime have better stats than normal Frost?

- Yeah he has a bit more base shields.

 

Does that matter?

- No, I want Frost for his defensive globe, freezing abilities, group slowdown, etc.

 

And if you want to talk endgame, in Warframe endgame most enemies can kill you in two seconds, if not a single shot depending on the enemy.  Most endgame things are based around control, avoidance, deflection, etc.  Examples?

 

From 11% Iron Skin and full health/shields to dead in 7 frames.

 

 

A bit more DR wouldn't help there.

 

 

EDIT: Besides that's a copout anyways, you were saying those games don't have unobtainables but they do. :P

Edited January 19, 2016 by Rydian

[Corvyr]

I made sure to specify from the start that I was talking about items that provide better stats because I know that there are plenty of unobtainable cosmetic items in games.

 

I don't think this discussion can go anywhere.  I'm not attacking your game.  I'm not saying it's bad.  I'm not saying you're wrong for liking it.  I'm just personally disappointed to have learned some of these things.  I haven't been able to find an online game that I can stick with and this one looked like it tic'd all of my boxes for a while there.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Corvyr

[kitsu]

 

As a new player of about three days, it just appears like this is an unnecessary inconvenience to me.  The only non-prime warframe that I like is Excalibur, and I'll never be able to get the prime version of that.  The only prime warframes I like are locked away for an indeterminate amount of time.

 

This has seriously killed my enthusiasm for playing this game.  I was looking forward to putting in some time to earn things in this game, but now I'm finding out there are things that I cannot earn - no matter how much time and effort I put into getting them - for what appear to be arbitrary reasons.

 

I really hope I am missing something and my current interpretation is inaccurate, because these last few days of playing have been pretty fun.  With so many goals being blocked by invisible walls, however, I don't think it will remain as fun for very long.

 

I do hope you get a chance to read this as I have looked through most of this thread.

 

Fat looking and odd shaped warframes are due to people using the 4:3 (standard) aspect ratio which makes all and any warframe look wider, thinner or overall really ugly and alien.

For some reason warframe can not aspect standard right and instead squishes widescreen 16:9 into 4:3 so alot of screen images online are done in 4:3 which... uglifies everything....

 

LASTLY has anyone told you about our lord and savior umbra excaliber? The better, availabe to all and soon to be released version of excaliber? Did I mention it is availabe for everyone, and it is gonna come out soon?