Aoe Or Explosive Damage In Any Part Of The Body Is An Automatic Headshot - Very Old, Very Annoying Bug

[-N7-Leonhart]

So why isn't this ancient bug fixed yet? This is the reason why some weapons like Tonkor get headshot damage on any kind of body or even limb hit, and allows them to do way above what their stats are capable of.

 

Very easy to notice, especially now, with the new crit mods. Lazily aiming at the enemy's toes results in a splendid 6-digit red critical headshot....for the whole group.

Edited February 3, 2016 by -BM-StormVanguard

[Tsoe]

try to get hit by grenade launcher projectil...

 

come back and tell me if it wasnt critical hit

 

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i dont think reducing damages is the way to buff thoose weapons... slower fire rate , less ammo  ,higher Frame speed malus, and slower weapon holstering sound way better

Edited February 3, 2016 by Tsoe

[-N7-Leonhart]

try to get hit by grenade launcher projectil...

 

come back and tell me if it wasnt critical hit

 

Say that to Ogris and Penta.....oh wait, it is.....for the user, that is.

i dont think reducing damages is the way to buff thoose weapons... slower fire rate , less ammo and higher speed malus sound way better

 

It's not like I asked for a nerf. How about fixing the bug only and leaving the stats untouched, it's not too much to ask, right?

Edited February 3, 2016 by -BM-StormVanguard

[YasaiTsume]

People will lynch me for this, but being already so powerful, I think blowing up any part of the body is already critical.

Why should explosives benefit from headshots, that reward careful aiming?

[Tsoe]

 

It's not like I asked for a nerf. How about fixing the bug only and leaving the stats untouched, it's not too much to ask, right?

 

i mean.. i am not sure if it's a bug

 

and as said above.. they are really strong even without critical and critical hit seem logical wherever yu shoot since the explosion hit every parts

 

i really think a nerf on Ammo ,Holster rate , frame speed while carrying weapon and fire rate would balance them

 

Also tonkor should really deal self damages , no point for grenade jump in WF we have parkour 2.0 for that

 

 

 

 

I do understand your view point though

Edited February 3, 2016 by Tsoe

[Kontrollo]

Huh, is this still not fixed? Haven't used those launchers in a while, but reported this as well at some point.

[Tsoe]

Huh, is this still not fixed? Haven't used those launchers in a while, but reported this as well at some point.

 

it was "fixed" and unfixed few patch after so i though they just decided it was legit

 

another thing could be to remoove the critical Chance Just like  penthera..

 

 

while penthera need it and dont have it at all for unknown reasons

 

i agree that launcher could just be fine without

Edited February 3, 2016 by Tsoe

[-N7-Leonhart]

it was "fixed" and unfixed few patch after so i though they just decided it was legit

 

I remember their attempt. The non-crit explosions would no longer be able to headshot while the critical explosions still worked the same. So it was an effective nerf for some weapons like the Penta.

Edited February 3, 2016 by -BM-StormVanguard

[Kontrollo]

Been searching for it and I've found that thread. I think it should be easy to see if it's a bug or not, because looking at that thread again it's clear it was only working against certain types of enemies. I'm not going to test that right now, though. Maybe later.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Been searching for it and I've found that thread. I think it should be easy to see if it's a bug or not, because looking at that thread again it's clear it was only working against certain types of enemies. I'm not going to test that right now, though. Maybe later.

 

Don't know how it worked before or how it works now for the stuff like Penta, but it's pretty noticeable for the Tonkor. The whole group of enemies gets a 4x damage multiplier crit headshot.

Edited February 3, 2016 by -BM-StormVanguard

[Kontrollo]

Don't know how it worked before or how it works now for the stuff like Penta, but it's pretty noticeable for the Tonkor. The whole group of enemies gets a 4x damage multiplier crit headshot.

 

Against MOAs too? If not it's exactly as reported there.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

It actually makes sense as a design feature. If enemy head is inside blast radius explosion is effectively always headshot. It would be more weird if it didn't count as headshot damage. It's not like the head is outside the blast radius.

[YasaiTsume]

It actually makes sense as a design feature. If enemy head is inside blast radius explosion is effectively always headshot. It would be more weird if it didn't count as headshot damage. It's not like the head is outside the blast radius.

Might as well add in critical multipliers for Heart shots and Groin shots too, because Explosions cover those as well.

[Kontrollo]

It actually makes sense as a design feature. If enemy head is inside blast radius explosion is effectively always headshot. It would be more weird if it didn't count as headshot damage. It's not like the head is outside the blast radius.

 

It looks like you've been around for a while as well, so you know there was a time when AoE weapons dealt headshots when the head was the nearest body part to the explosion. So we tried to explode our Penta grenades over their heads. But then they supposedly removed headshots from explosive effects (e.g. Absorb did it as well but can't do it anymore I think), and now that's suddenly OK on certain things?

 

I've read through that bug report again. I guess I calculated the numbers back then and this makes Point Strike a viable mod on a Penta with its lowly 10% critical chance. I'm really sceptical that this is intended. Also, didn't (doesn't?) work on MOAs. Why not if it's legit?

[Tsoe]

It looks like you've been around for a while as well, so you know there was a time when AoE weapons dealt headshots when the head was the nearest body part to the explosion. So we tried to explode our Penta grenades over their heads. But then they supposedly removed headshots from explosive effects (e.g. Absorb did it as well but can't do it anymore I think), and now that's suddenly OK on certain things?

 

I've read through that bug report again. I guess I calculated the numbers back then and this makes Point Strike a viable mod on a Penta with its lowly 10% critical chance. I'm really sceptical that this is intended. Also, didn't (doesn't?) work on MOAs. Why not if it's legit?

cause flesh =/= roboticks?

 

depend does crewman receeive the headshoot multi when the helmet is on?

[BluelitHalo]

Funny thing is that it's this bug that makes the Tonkor a god-tier weapon, due to the extra bonus on critical headshots.

Edited February 3, 2016 by AzureEmulation

[ThePredicament]

It feels like this has been fixed, are you sure you aren't just hitting actual weakpoints, like Ancient limbs, moa butts, etc?

[-N7-Leonhart]

It feels like this has been fixed, are you sure you aren't just hitting actual weakpoints, like Ancient limbs, moa butts, etc?

 

If I had any doubts, I just need to look at a whole group getting head shotted all at the same time with a grenade, and my doubts that it works as intended would vanish.

[Kontrollo]

cause flesh =/= roboticks?

 

depend does crewman receeive the headshoot multi when the helmet is on?

 

Please don't be silly. Also, it's humanoid enemies iirc, would work even against Ancients.

 

Yes they do receive the headshot, but the damage is reduced by 100. I guess that's what's necessary to remove the helmet.

 

Went to the Simulacrum quickly, again with an unmodded Penta (350 Blast). and here are the results. Note that the explosions are all on the ground:

599 damage against Crewman with helmet;  (350 * 2) - 100.

 

 

 

699 damage against Crewman without helmet; 350 * 2.

 

 

 

1398 critical damage against Creman without helmet. 350 * 2 * 2. Doesn't receive the additional x2 multiplier from critical headshots.

 

 

 

349 damage against a MOA, as expected.

 

Didn't do all that many tests so it would be great if someone else could confirm or debunk. It looks like at least the ridiculously high numbers due to the 4x multiplier for critical headshots are gone now. But it still deals more damage to humanoid enemies than expected.

[Kontrollo]

In the bug report thread I mentioned it works against Kubrows as well. This seems to be the case, and they still receive 4x increased damage. Just tested this in the Simulacrum as well, I'm seeing the same numbers as reported back then but it's not entirely conclusive:

 

 

Normal shot deals 190 damage to Kubrow; Critical hit deals 759 damage - 4 times as much.

 

Math:

Kubrows have Flesh with 200 Ferrite armour at level 1.

 

Calculated non-critical non-headshot Blast damage of an unmodded Penta against a level 1 Kubrow:

350 * 0.75 * 300 / (300 + (200 * 1.25)) = 143.

 

Expected result of this calculation would've been 95 if the first number we're seeing in the screenshot is indeed a headshot. Maybe the wiki's information on Kubrow armour is too low, but I'll have to test this as well, later, and with other guns.

 

However, there's no way a critical hit of an unmodded Penta should deal 4x as much damage as a normal hit, that much is certain.

[EvilChaosKnight]

I'm gonna be that guy and ask straight away. Do launcher weapons (minus Tonkor) need yet ANOTHER nerf?

If it's not broken, don't fix it. I already barely see any launchers in pub, even less so effective launcher users.

[Kontrollo]

I'm gonna be that guy and ask straight away. Do launcher weapons (minus Tonkor) need yet ANOTHER nerf?

If it's not broken, don't fix it. I already barely see any launchers in pub, even less so effective launcher users.

 

This is not really about nerfing weapons. It's about fixing a long-standing bug. Issues that affect damage should be fixed asap, otherwise people start depending on them, and start investing time into building, levelling and formaing weapons. Taking that away long after the fact is not a good thing.

 

Ideally, they'd fix it and reevaluate all the weapons and effects that were affected by it.

 

By the way, I checked something else now as well. I mentioned Nyx' Absorb in a previous post, and contrary to what I assumed there it actually is affected, too. It's not that easy to test because the damage drops off radially, but this pic shows it clearly:

 

However, it can't get crits, so you'll never see that 4x critical headshot multiplier with Absorb.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

I think they should remove the headshot multiplier but keep the AoE headshot potential if they intend to nerf this on AoE.

I'd still like to have the headshot available for proc on weapons, but you can remove the extra damage.

Edited February 3, 2016 by (PS4)RenovaKunumaru

[-N7-Leonhart]

I think they should remove the headshot multiplier but keep the AoE headshot potential if they intend to nerf this on AoE.

I'd still like to have the headshot available for proc on weapons, but you can remove the extra damage.

The headshot multiplier absolutely can't be removed, it's crazy to think it will ever happen. It's 2x for non-crit headshots and 4x for crit headshots and works the same for every weapon in the game, even those without critical stats at all (due to Arcane Avenger).

 

What do you propose here is actually letting the bug be and remove one of the core mechanics.....I can't find any logic or reason in that.

Edited February 3, 2016 by -BM-StormVanguard

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

I don't think it's a bug - I think this is a case of the game "working as intended."
I've seen the little tip on the loading screen that says AOE weapons give you headshot bonus to surrounding enemies - unless I'm mistaken.

 

They even hotfixed it to where the AoE damage to surrounding enemies doesn't "count" as a headshot on your final-mission stats.

 

it won't affect me either way. I love the tonkor - whether the headshot damage is there are not doesn't matter. All the things are going to die anyway.