Melee Warframe + Abilities + Melee

[EinheriarJudith]

I see alot of talk surrounding melee warframes and melee in warframe in general. what melee warframes do we have exactly? Valkyr, Excalibur, Wu Kong, Atlas, Ash ill even mention Loki. What ive seen is that some of these melee warframes have some similarities. atlas #1 power is like an advanced slash dash which is Excalibur #1 power, Wu Kong ult is a weaker version of Excalibur ult which is also weaker than Valkyr ult but what is similar is Valkyr, Excalibur, and Wu Kong, have the same go into melee mode ult.

 

My issue isn't with the fact that there are similarities, In my opinion the melee system in this game is garbage. ive played MANY action games whose melee is better even though those games are older. when you make a melee warframe if the melee mechanics are terrible those warframes melee components are terrible. why is Valkr using fist weapon stance and not sparing? why does Excalibur shoot discs out of his blade taking away from any real melee combat he could possibly do? why is Wu Kong's ult not using a better staff stance(i know his staff can change shape and size but what it does now is awful).

 

Combo controls are a mess. what do i mean by they are a mess? you use e for secondary melee and primary melee and that is bad. when in melee mode LMB and RMB should be melee combo buttons. block should be removed and automated like seen with Excalibur so that more functions can be added like say light slash and heavy slash (holding Heavy Slash enables use of charge attacks like throws and what not) which could be bound to LMB and RMB and change ALL the combos. ee pause eee (what the hell is this?) melee speed needs to be normalized and static so that melee combos can be used even in hi speed fights (when they start dog piling you ee pause eee is not going to cut it sorry). Aerial combos well... lets just say are practically non existent. all the flying mobs i feel in melee mode e should be used for the secondary weapon like a pistol or kunai or whatever you have for a secondary which will allow you to stay in melee mode and not have to continuously jump to try to hit flying mobs. 

 

Fix your melee mechanics and the melee warframes will get better. that's all I've got to say about that.

Edited February 9, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[Naftal]

My issue is that some of these frames ruin the idea of melee. Like hysteria that removes the threat of damage and EB that turns your melee into a gun...

[EinheriarJudith]

My issue is that some of these frames ruin the idea of melee. Like hysteria that removes the threat of damage and EB that turns your melee into a gun...

im with you there these 2 things are completely unnecessary.

[swizzybeatzjamz]

Yeah I feel the samw. I would like the combos to have more purpose than looking different. Hysteria turns you immortal which is boring. And excal ismg really a swords man. He is a ranged character with a gun blade sword

[(PSN)xKAIOWAx]

Ash s amazing for melee , and chroma, ember, rhino, nezha, even banshee can be used as melee frame too

[EinheriarJudith]

Ash s amazing for melee , and chroma, ember, rhino, nezha, even banshee can be used as melee frame too

the purpose of silence is to enable finishes for your self and team mates but it is priority target reduction meaning while it is active enemies pay less attention to you and more to your other squad memeber which allows you to shoot weak points without really being shot at banshee is far from a melee frame. ash takes part in the aspects of melee that actually work(finishers) but outside that melee is bad and need serious improvement. rhino chroma are buffers but if we had a better melee system they could outstandingly shine. ember is not a melee frame like not at all everything about her is area nuke all her powers are AOE and she has low armor. nezha though i dont have him yet pending 2 days in the foundry is better used running and gunning there is nothing melee about that.

Edited February 9, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[Xaero]

Stop asking for waves removal. This aspect reminds me of Shadow Warrior.

 

[EinheriarJudith]

Stop asking for waves removal. This aspect reminds me of Shadow Warrior.

 

eww the waves need to go sorry they... need... to... go...

[Dawn11715]

eww the waves need to go sorry they... need... to... go...

well....

How about no...

There is no reason for all of the meele frames to take the same approach on this idea.

Without the waves eb would be a weak hyseria and without the immortality, hysteria would be a weak e.b.

Remove them both, and guess what: both frames will have the same abilitys. (also the waves are awesome and need a charge attack, that creates an earth shaking superwave)

 

Now dont get me wrong: I dont say these abilitys are perfect. the waves of e.b. are too spammy and being invulnerable really IS boring, but that can be dealt with without destroying the basic idea behind this abilitys:

Hysteria could get a cooldown or have the invulnerability be time limited or removed with a high but flat damage reduction.

exalted blade could be changed to something like ironskin, meaning it wouldnt cost energy as time passes, but with each wave you emit.

That way players wouldnt just spam them, and rather try to use them in an efficient way.

[EinheriarJudith]

well....

How about no...

There is no reason for all of the meele frames to take the same approach on this idea.

Without the waves eb would be a weak hyseria and without the immortality, hysteria would be a weak e.b.

Remove them both, and guess what: both frames will have the same abilitys. (also the waves are awesome and need a charge attack, that creates an earth shaking superwave)

 

Now dont get me wrong: I dont say these abilitys are perfect. the waves of e.b. are too spammy and being invulnerable really IS boring, but that can be dealt with without destroying the basic idea behind this abilitys:

Hysteria could get a cooldown or have the invulnerability be time limited or removed with a high but flat damage reduction.

exalted blade could be changed to something like ironskin, meaning it wouldnt cost energy as time passes, but with each wave you emit.

That way players wouldnt just spam them, and rather try to use them in an efficient way.

hysteria, exalted blade and primal fury are all the same in that they are all ults and all put you in melee mode regardless of weapon in hand valkyr has the HIGHEST armor value of the melee warframes (honestly with life strike shes damn near invincible). since exalted blade and hysteria both go off the mods of the melee weapon they will always be evenly matched the only difference in power is ranged Vs Melee. a blade that shoots out beams might as well be a gun. now if exalted blade had a charge attack where it could be thrown like a boomerang that would be acceptable but shooting discs we have a gun that can already do that called Fluctus which was out before they reworked him so... lazy design maybe. 

[EinheriarJudith]

to add to removing invincibility from hysteria they could make hysteria augment her other abilities like adding regen to warcry on top of it adding armor and melee speed, making rip line shoot multiple lines in 360 pulling in enemies, and making paralysis strip armor on top of its stun.

[Naftal]

to add to removing invincibility from hysteria they could make hysteria augment her other abilities like adding regen to warcry on top of it adding armor and melee speed, making rip line shoot multiple lines in 360 pulling in enemies, and making paralysis strip armor on top of its stun.

Maybe remove invulnerability and give increased sprint speed and bullet jump stats while it's activated.

[EinheriarJudith]

Maybe remove invulnerability and give increased sprint speed and bullet jump stats while it's activated.

i always wondered why she doesnt move to fast in the first place she has feral behavior. why nova and mirage move faster than she does blows my mind. the same with wukong why does he move so slowly for being who he is lol

[Dawn11715]

 it could be thrown like a boomerang that would be acceptable but shooting discs we have a gun that can already do that called Fluctus which was out before they reworked him so... lazy design maybe. 

 

well that throwing thing would ALSO be stolen from like,... mhm...if i think of it...

about any starwars game ever....

 

I really hate that sort of argument, because in the world we live in today you can be sure that any good Idea had been there before in some way.

warframe has far over one hundred abilitys and even more weapons in it, its obvious why some stuff is similar to one another.

 

Beside that: excalibur, from the description, is meant to be a "well rounded" warframe, so an ultimate that is both ranged and melee doesnt suit him that bad.

 

If you want classic melee Ash is there for you: no invincibility, no waves, just how you seem to want it.

Or you could... well just use normal melee weapons instead of ability's...

 

EDIT:

 

 

to add to removing invincibility from hysteria they could make hysteria augment her other abilities like adding regen to warcry on top of it adding armor and melee speed, making rip line shoot multiple lines in 360 pulling in enemies, and making paralysis strip armor on top of its stun.

 

Maybe remove invulnerability and give increased sprint speed and bullet jump stats while it's activated.

 

 

that both sounds nice.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Dawn11715

[EinheriarJudith]

well that throwing thing would ALSO be stolen from like,... mhm...if i think of it...

about any starwars game ever....

 

I really hate that sort of argument, because in the world we live in today you can be sure that any good Idea had been there before in some way.

warframe has far over one hundred abilitys and even more weapons in it, its obvious why some stuff is similar to one another.

 

Beside that: excalibur, from the description, is meant to be a "well rounded" warframe, so an ultimate that is both ranged and melee doesnt suit him that bad.

 

If you want classic melee Ash is there for you: no invincibility, no waves, just how you seem to want it.

Or you could... well just use normal melee weapons instead of ability's...

you've misunderstood. by me saying he can throw his blade gives it that well rounded ranged melee feel. ash is good at one thing and I've said in my previous post in this thread and that is Finishers no one can out do ash in finishers. Bladestorm is one big area finisher. teleport opens for finishers. normal melee is bad which is what i said in the OP everything is explained as thoroughly as possible. please also do not assume to think you know what style im looking for when im trying to express the feelings people are having along with my feelings on the subject. i know what you mean by using assets from other different games thats one thing but using the same assets in the same game is seen as lazy. i made a post in the weapons section about the paracyst to have a different secondary fire because rip line belongs to valkyr.

Edited February 9, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[(PSN)DBR87]

I like Exalted Blades. It's a really cool Ultimate that actually FEELS like an Ultimate. However, I would personally reduce the range of the blade waves. 40 meters is pretty excessive. 10 meters would be fine. Also keep in mind the waves travel at 15 meters per second.

 

If we are being honest, Warframe is more a shooter then a hack and slash. I honestly don't know many games that made third person shooting mechanics as equally adept as combat mechanics. Sleeping Dogs is the only game I can think of off the top of my head that had a deep melee system along with okay shooting mechanics.

 

Melee can definitely be improved.

 

I always wondered why Hysteria made you damage immune. I mean, it already comes with innate Life Strike. You'd think they would just giver her 90% damage resistance or just a scale-able armor boost. But there is the stored damage part; if you don't kill everything around you and Hysteria drops for some reason you can get one shotted...though realistically if you do think your energy is about to run out you can just run away.

[EinheriarJudith]

I like Exalted Blades. It's a really cool Ultimate that actually FEELS like an Ultimate. However, I would personally reduce the range of the blade waves. 40 meters is pretty excessive. 10 meters would be fine. Also keep in mind the waves travel at 15 meters per second.

 

If we are being honest, Warframe is more a shooter then a hack and slash. I honestly don't know many games that made third person shooting mechanics as equally adept as combat mechanics. Sleeping Dogs is the only game I can think of off the top of my head that had a deep melee system along with okay shooting mechanics.

 

Melee can definitely be improved.

 

I always wondered why Hysteria made you damage immune. I mean, it already comes with innate Life Strike. You'd think they would just giver her 90% damage resistance or just a scale-able armor boost. But there is the stored damage part; if you don't kill everything around you and Hysteria drops for some reason you can get one shotted...though realistically if you do think your energy is about to run out you can just run away.

i could give you a few examples. Devil may cry series(both shooter and melee), Elder scrolls skyrim etc(both shooter and melee) Fallout series (both shooter and melee). demons/dark souls (both shooter and melee). Melee is one part of your arsenal it has a combo system and you can use it when and if you run out of ammo because well no bullets no pew pew. some of the recent frames and reworks are leaning to have more melee options best thing for them to to is improve the system because what we have now is a shadow of what it could be.

Edited February 10, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I think I have seen enough of these threads so I'm gonna just post a single post here which I will reuse for future:

 

I don't see any problems with Exalted Blade.

 

Nothing is stopping anyone from going full closed up melee.

 

In non-melee only (eg. pistol only, sniper only, etc) and energy reduction sorties, I find it is very well balanced and challenging.

 

I don't see the need for any changes at all and I have seen how threads like this have ruined perfectly good frames in the past, trying to "perfect" them based on trying to force other players into playing the way the poster wants.

 

Excalibur was ruined in the past. First with Slash Dash, then Radial Javelin, then Radial Blind, then Exalted Blade nerfs. Now, people are still asking for more and I'm sick of it.

 

Sorry, but I absolutely and completely disagree with both the removal of the waves in EB and the removal of invulnerability in Hysteria.

 

Removing either of these will render these 2 frames useless. Excalibur is too weak in terms of HP, Shield and Armor to go charging head long towards a bunch of gun-wielding grineers or corpus moas and the same can be said for Valkyr even if she at least still has innate life steal to go with it.

 

All I can say is these frames are balanced as far as my experience in sorties and the game goes.

 

I do not agree with most of the posts here about trying to change them and this is my personal opinion.

 

I believe there are many more frames and weapons that are in need of balancing that, assuming if I were to somehow agree that they need to be changed, should definitely be given higher priority than to do any more unneeded changes to these well (though perhaps not perfectly) balanced frames.

 

TLDR: In my opinion, any changes to Excalibur and Valkyr are redundant and a complete waste of resources and time. It is inefficiency in its truest form to try and balance them in a coop game simply due to opinions by thread posters on how the frames should be played by others when there is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from playing it that way (Excal: Just go ahead and go close up to melee or just use the melee weapon instead of Exalted Blade. Valkyr: Don't use Hysteria. Both: Use another frame; there are so many to choose from. If you don't like the way these 2 feel for you, try something else. If you can't be bothered to buy or farm for other frames then that is your own issue not the frame or the game or the developers)

 

 

I honestly find no problem with his slash dash ability or chaining it for that matter. As far as everyone being too nervous to say anything, there have been many and I do mean MANY posts on nerfing excalibur since his rework. I myself even suggested giving him a combo that allows his waves to come out rather than it being a constant thing, but the community did not have a favorable response.

 

I personally love excalibur as he is and wouldnt change a thing, and how others want to use him have absolutely no effect on whether or not I want to see him used. I only posted my suggestion because of how many people complained while I was in mission with them. The one thing people need to remember is... this isnt just your game. It is a game for the community and the thing with community play is everyone is diverse in their own play style.

 

You see people spamming EB? So what? Let them do what suits them and you continue to do what suits you. Worried about kill count? Dont be, it doesnt mean anything. Worried about experience? Not a problem, experience is shared and from what I understand within a very wide range of whoever is getting it.

 

 

Not in my opinion or the creators of this game which clearly invented this ability. Do people not like anime anymore? Samurais slash waves in lots of animes and games alike, it is your opinion but I stand firm that Exalted Blade is aesthetically Beautiful and Great mechanically. I dont want Excal to be weak and used to spam Radial Javelin again. He feels like a Super Space Samurai and I love it, let the Noobies feel OP man this is PvE not PvP and this game is an endless tiresome grind that most new players really dont wanna spend all that time to get were most of us are now.

 

Lets rewind back to when we were all Noobies, remember how weak you were as that Noobie Frame with your Skana/Bo? I hated it hacking away doing No damage, but My passion for Warframe got me to were I am today. New Players need something awesome and Exalted Blade is that Torch to show them the way in the Dark.

 

Remember Sorties and Events arent easy and Exalted Blade Nerf will be another set back, let Warframe progress and lets stop with all these Nerfs please. I only seek Buffs to all warframes. Nerfs make me sad and discourage alot of players from playing certain frames

 

 

Ok lemme break it down quiet Blood Raw as the older folks say, No waves in EB will make EB just a fukin SWORD, there aint no Potential in a game that everyones running and gunning and casting Magic destroying everything for just a Light sword with no Waves. This games Melee is hinder useless compared to Ranged weapons My brother. You and I and everyone in this community know this, unless if youre just being a troll i cant tell what Your intentions are but I come to the conclusion that your not serious about making him better only toning him down a bit, or alot. 

 

I wont say your idea is terrible to not make you feel offended but lets not sugar coat S#&$ here, this will more likely ruin him then better him tbh

 

I guess this game is all about not getting too comfortable and enjoying what you have momentarily, everything gets changed and ruined and destroyed then fixed and its a vicious cycle, i fear for Warframes future, One Nerf Thread here, another Buff thread there.

 

I really wanna register in My mind that You like Excalibur but it doesnt process to Me. How about this? Why dont You just not play with Exalted Blade and let the guys who love sending out Slash Waves play and enjoy this marvelous ulti? Everyone can be happy

 

 

Corrected your post.  The word is 'newbies' (someone new to the game and willing to improve) rather than 'noob/noobies' (someone who has no interest in improving and only wants to leech).

 

"Contrary to the belief of many, a noob/n00b and a newbie/newb are not the same thing. Newbs are those who are new to some task* and are very beginner at it, possibly a little overconfident about it, but they are willing to learn and fix their errors to move out of that stage. n00bs, on the other hand, know little and have no will to learn any more. They expect people to do the work for them and then expect to get praised about it, and make up a unique species of their own."

 

 

 

Your suggestion would make the game more complex and difficult for more newbies while having little to no effect on veteran players. It would create an even further skill/capability divide among those who are otherwise underpowered due to lack of proper mods/currency to obtain the requisite level of power for the content they are attempting to do.

 

Let's be real here: What is the real reason you want Exalted Blade to be more complex to use?  Because you don't want newbies to use it.

 

Why wouldn't you want newbies to use it?

 

Because you:

-dislike the ability itself (animation/sounds/power/whatever)

-dislike seeing someone else 'steal' your kills (despite this being a co-op game)

-have some personal ego issue you need to address

 

Most veteran players are not playing (normal) Excalibur as a frame.  Out of all 3 starters, Excalibur is the best suited for newbie players to the game in both utility and survivability against all 3 factions.  Both Volt and Mag are severely limited in many respects whereas Excalibur can hold their own.

 

Exalted Blade is part of Excal's kit; making things more complex will only hinder newbies rather than create some exciting meta-game of combos or whatever silly thing your original post thinks it is doing.

 

You know some what might improve the game?  Bug fixes, better performance fixes, and so on.  Not wasting dev time on something that will only hinder newbies and make the elitists feel good about themselves.

 

Exalted Blade gets the job done and it gets it done in a way that doesn't require memorizing combos or performing keyboard gymnastics.  Most players aren't playing on PC with a controller (for many reasons, the UI being one of them).  Not everyone can do complex combos on a keyboard when it is an effort just to do a running slide dash.  Shift + Control + W + Mouse Click is a lot to ask for many players who aren't as young as they used to be or otherwise have some accessability issues.  Adding in more complexity on top of that to stroke your personal ego will not help the situation.

 

 

Why do people keep wanting to fix something that's not broken?

If you wanna take away the waves, then you best be prepared to give excalibur more hp, shields and/or armor or even invulnerability like Valkyr.

I mean this is a coop game. People work together to take down enemies but the only thing people still seem to be concerned is "My teammates kills more than me".

Excalibur is a damage dealer frame like Valkyr so of course comparing to a healer like Trinity, a tank like Rhino or Frost, he should deal high damage and he gets lower survivability stats in exchange.

It's fun playing as him because you can still die if you messed up with the energy/ability usage balance during a mission.

If he's not fun for you, find a frame that is? There are tons of many others.

In fact, I rotate my frames every now and then, and though not all suit my gameplay style but it's way better than trying to destroy other players' favourite or most fun frame.

Sorry but I have seen this many times before already. First was slash dash then came radial javelin then now again trying to do it to exalted blade.

When does this stop? Just lock him behind MR10 please. Maybe that will stop this madness for once.

 

 

Alright, can I have show of hands of all those who played far enough to notice that at some point in time, spamming E doesn't deal enough damage to kill everything or even lower enemy health much and pressing 2 to radial blind too often will run you out of energy and so you had to resort to using the sliding blind and using the stance move that knocks down enemies at the last strike?

So?

Noone?

Yeah, that's what I thought.


Sorry if I come across as being too harsh but this has happened so many times before already and I'm seriously sick of it already. Everytime excalibur gets fun to play with, he gets nerfed till he's crap to the point they rework him again then rinse repeat.

I still think they should just lock him behind a high MR rank because maybe for once, people will start looking at him as something else other then "starter frame = must be the lousiest"

 

 

Precisely!

By the way, you forgot to mention Hysteria comes with innate life steal and a blast around her once she deactivates it.

This is not the first time this has happened already.

Earliest incidence of "perfecting" the frame was on slash dash changes then came radial javelin then came radial blind with exalted blade.

We finally got the boat floating at close to perfection. Please stop trying to "fix it to perfection" and end up capsizing the boat again.

If Excalibur gets hit again, some other used as a comparison such as Valkyr will also get hit eventually to "balance" the game.

I seriously hope we don't go down the path of Nerfframe again because that was one of the reasons why I left this game for a period previously and it is seriously getting annoying.

 

 

Yes! Seriously, there is nothing stopping any of us from just running up to the enemy and being "swordsmansy" right now, even with the waves.

In fact, it has happened for me since I couldn't kill them fast enough (I couldn't use radial blind either because it was a sortie with energy reduction and I had 75 energy max) and they were right in my face but with the knockdown move, I managed to finisher some of them on the floor and also slide blind some of them before finishing off the rest.

 

 

Hmm..this I can agree on.

 

Currently, the only 2 stance moves I use is the one that knocks down and the sliding blind.

 

The rest, to be honest, I sometimes can't really tell the difference though there seems to be one that deal a little more damage and is pretty long.

 

So, yes. Make the stance moves more varied with more difference but keep the waves.

 

A close range Excal with the current stats will suck bad and also be pretty much just a weaker Valkyr or Wu Kong, though of course if that somehow happens (I have seen him going back and forth in usefulness for a long time already so I won't really be surprised either) , we can always revert him back to just being a radial blind spam machine which I seriously hope we don't.

Edited February 10, 2016 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[EinheriarJudith]

~snip~

Everyone has opinions about the 2  ults on both sides you say it should stay i say it should go we both have valid reasons but those of us that dont like the discs have no choice but to deal with it and its not because we think they are op its because the discs detract from actual MELEE(Melee: a confused hand-to-hand fight or struggle among several people) combat. saying "you can just run up and attack them in close quarters" well here is one thing where you are absolutely wrong. no matter what you are doing while you are in exalted blade, the discs shoot out at ALL ranges they don't just stop because you get close.

 

Hysteria's invulnerability is unnecessary and that ult could be tweaked to do different things as myself and another poster have stated in earlier posts. with how much armor she has, having life strike on hysteria practically makes her invincible. removing invincibility from it and giving her damage reduction is the best tweak for a power that is hiding the true problem with scaling(mobs in high tier being one hit bullet sponges).

 

The only ranged melee that can be considered so should be the throw weapons which almost no body uses. the melee system needs a revamp, combos need a revamp, melee frames should be brought inline with melee and not hide behind a niche to hide actual problems with armor and scaling

Edited February 10, 2016 by EinheriarJudith