Is Loki An Endgame Warframe?

[RakuyoExcelsior]

I recently got Loki and I have to say I can't figure him out. I mainly got him because I was frustrated in higher level spy missions trying to farm Ivara and burning through ciphers, and Loki is a master of doing them real fast. But anyway, what I discovered is that in groups he is kinda weak, and I'm not saying he is really weak, just that outside of endgame with all the mods and weapons, you are kinda just there. You don't have enough energy and efficiency and range to keep casting your ultimate, you don't have enough duration to consider being invisible all the time strategy and you find yourself shooting away and occasionally casting some low effect abilities.

Now I understand that endgame with derelict mods and syndicate and primes mods and good weapons he excels, but since I don't have them, what can one do with Loki outside spy?

 

Is this the reason why he was replaced as a started warframe?

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I'm not. every time someone uses irradiating Disarm, they always end up going for me for some reason. plus higher level enemies still deal a ton of damage in Melee. it's probably the least helpful CC in the game.

[izzatuw]

Loki is no good engame, you can go Nyx instead and spam her Chaos instead which makes them fight anyone among themselves and since they got an insane armor and insane damage, that's extremely beneficial for your team, which is way more useful to a team. Her 4 makes her immune and absorbs damage, great for reviving, while Loki can stealth revive anyone, but if a single bullet flies by him he will be down in the second. Nyx 1 with her augment gives them like 300% or 500% damage to anyone who she is controlling.

 

Pair her with a Hubras Kubrow (Animal Instinct mod too), and she will never be targeted. You don't need to shot anyone, your 1 will do the trick. And chaos will make defense, survival, interception, a fun mod, even in sorties.

 

Loki is a solo frame, but in eng game Loki is not really helpful. People are picking Nyx over Loki for LoR instead now due her chaos, immune and crazy damage while Loki can only offer a disarm, but if they get close to you, as in, you were not looking the enemies were coming to you from your blind spot and hit you one time late game you will fall down. With Nyx, they will fighting each other most of the time and you can just finish them off from afar.

Loki is arguably better in corpus or corrupted.

Since Disarm is permanent even after a nullifier comes they'll still have a stick instead of a gun and since Radiation is a proc and not an actual ability enemies inside the bubble are still proc'd with it.

Your Absorb to revive is 100% false. You can use Absorb to give cover to your teammates for a quick revive yes but you make it sound like you're capable of reviving the teammate yourself in that state which from what I recall, you can't.

Her Mindfreak augment sounds cool on paper but the AI is far from reliable enough to make the mod any real sorts of useful, don't see why you would waste a slot on it.

Imo they're both end game frames and I love both of them to bits.

[ThorienKELL]

Loki is a s endgame as endgame gets. Some ppl believe loki is most powerful warframe, I wouldn't agree 100%, just 90%. 

[VexMain]

Loki is arguably better in corpus or corrupted.

Since Disarm is permanent even after a nullifier comes they'll still have a stick instead of a gun and since Radiation is a proc and not an actual ability enemies inside the bubble are still proc'd with it.

Your Absorb to revive is 100% false. You can use Absorb to give cover to your teammates for a quick revive yes but you make it sound like you're capable of reviving the teammate yourself in that state which from what I recall, you can't.

Her Mindfreak augment sounds cool on paper but the AI is far from reliable enough to make the mod any real sorts of useful, don't see why you would waste a slot on it.

Imo they're both end game frames and I love both of them to bits.

I have both frames, between them. I would pick Nyx over Loki for sorties, since she is more reliable. And for corpus, you don't really need any of them, always go for Mag. Why would you pick a Loki or Nyx over a Mag in a Corpus mission. They only reason why I pick Loki is for throwing a Rush and Armored Agility and do spy missions for farming.

 

For team fights. I use Ivara if I want stealth and still be extremely valuable for my team. When it comes to utility, Loki's CC isn't reliable. I mean, I would probably even pick Nova over Loki too. Her slow is more helpful than Loki's disarm. On paper sounds nice, I did tried Loki in several sorties, and even in interception missions. Even though I applied disarm my team would die from sticks. I went Ivara, set up my ziplines, made them sleep for 20 seconds. That was a better solution.

 

Endgame warframes offer great support for others, Loki is mostly for soloing missions than just working with a team. Others can fill his role way better.

[ThorienKELL]

Endgame warframes offer great support for others, Loki is mostly for soloing missions than just working with a team. Others can fill his role way better.

Plse. Stop. 

[tedbearr]

So to any new player picking him up straight out of the box, two things would happen:

1 - they would find the start of the game easy because they'd learn that with a decent melee weapon and stealth you can ezpez your way through a good number of the starting planets. As a result, they'd just lean on this tactic and they wouldn't have any ability to utilise the rest of his arsenal because they'd never learnt to.

Cough cough Excalibur and his exalted blade cough cough

[Giantconch]

Loki is a valuable member of any team at any level in the game.

 

Level 250 enemies that can 1-shot entire teams? Bring energy restores with you, set your loki up for 250% range, cast 4 with the Irradiating Disarm mod equipped, and watch the lulz.

 

Spy mission woes? Set up a max duration Loki with decent efficiency and a bit of range and switch teleport/stealth your way to the end.

 

*Sabotage and Deception; max duration and efficiency, invis to target, invis to exit. EZ.

 

*Interception; take all weapons away with an Ash on the team, let him bladespam--err, storm... taddaa!

 

*LOR raid; get Primed Flow, be a battery carrier, and decoy Vay Hek in the final stage so he doesnt fire his goddamn nuclear rockets at your face every 6 seconds t_t

Edited February 23, 2016 by giantconch
thought of more mission applications

[ThorienKELL]

3 minutes ago, SkollArt said:

Nope. Seriously. Loki is not a good endgame frame.

So yeah. Loki is more for a solo run frame for mostly midgame. not really endgame.

You are clueless and have no idea what you talk about. Which is fine, really - we all were newbies once and no man has been born smart. However your self absorbed mindset in which you preach rather then listen will determine that you will stay newbie lot further then it's necessary, and in this case newbie can easily become "noob".

Loki is amazing on so many levels that as soon as you have to explain that to someone, you are already at loss because it's clear that that persona has no experience or capacity to understand. Loki is the definition of endgame itself. Class of it's own. Or "master race" as some would say. 

[SquireAngel]

Loki is a decent frame. What Loki does well  is keeping himself from being killed, and usually his teammates. While he has no dmg output himself, besides the rather negligible tick of damage from radial disarm, he sets himself up to devote to the offensive with little to no fear of retribution, meaning you can stab or shoot away to your heart's content. He gets a little bit too much hype, imo, but he is surely a dependable frame in any situation, assuming you have him modded correctly. 

[m1a3s3k7]

1 hour ago, SkollArt said:

Nope. Seriously. Loki is not a good endgame frame. Doesn't offer anything better than others can, and specially being extremely squishie and the perma invisible lie everyone tells. I thought perma invisibility meant that I didn't have to cast 3 every 30 seconds. So I gotta time my 3 every 30 seconds, and sometimes my laptop lags and bang, lagging when I need to cast 3 again, down on the floor. While being invisible, Loki is still squishie and any flying projectile will take him down, or auras if her disarms them. The best I can do is Ivara and put them to sleep for 20 seconds. It is not as big as Loki, but there is no energy issues by putting asleep everyone in a large room which this opens up finishers for the whole group.

Loki can probably use a finisher or two, but the radius of alerting enemies is like at least 8 meters so everyon would get alerted and a finisher won't be possible. Ivara just put everyone into sleep mode in a room and finish everyone. So I find Ivara more useful than Loki at being invisible. Nyx is being chosen over Loki for LoR right now, due her CC will help to kill them each other, without wasting a warframe slot. Like Loki needs to do and only lasts 9 seconds, Nyx can keep on casting it and doesn't suffer from a lot of energy drain.

So yeah. Loki is more for a solo run frame for mostly midgame. not really endgame.

Let's put it simple:

1. His 1 is useless in endgame cause of one shot, I could say Chroma does a better job or Mesa with her 2, so there are way better options for distractions than Loki's 1. Actually his 1 is useless.

2. Teleport is nice, but doesn't offer a lot of utility. You could trade places for reviving, but in small rooms doesn't make any difference. You could just use Valkyr to revive. So 2 might be useful only in certain situations.

3. Temporally being invisible for 30 seconds, gotta recast. Some say this is the best option for reviving, but not really. Ivara with her sleeping bolts and her invisible bubble and turning your teammates invisible while at it are better options, for not failing Valkyr does a better job. But being invisible is outclassed by Ivara, by a lot. She can't move as fast as Loki, but she can manouver better than Loki and turn her allies invisible, way better than Loki's.

4. Radial Disarm, they will hit you with sticks and kill you, in crowded, awful tilesets, doesn't matter. OR more importantly. What are you gonna do against those who do not have ranged weapons, doesn't affect any of them. Spending a mod on it for 9 secs to kill each other. Why not just use Nyx, which last longer and has no need to waste a mod slot. Nyx outclasses his Radial Disarm.

There, this is why Loki isn't and endgame frame. Outclassed, and probably just one ability being uselful but being squishie against melee waves will still kill him. There are better options

???

 

I'm just going to go read one of the 5k "nerf the master race" threads...

[--Q--uaint]

I dunno if this has been posted already, but stealthing missions with silent weapons/melee is useful for leveling stuff (particularly the melee), due to the stealthkill affinity multiplier. Loki obviously makes this easier.

Another thing to note is that you don't have to spam to be good. A well-placed Decoy or Disarm will go a long way, and being invisible will help you revive teammates.

[--Q--uaint]

1 hour ago, SkollArt said:

1. His 1 is useless in endgame cause of one shot, I could say Chroma does a better job or Mesa with her 2, so there are way better options for distractions than Loki's 1. Actually his 1 is useless.

2. Teleport is nice, but doesn't offer a lot of utility. You could trade places for reviving, but in small rooms doesn't make any difference. You could just use Valkyr to revive. So 2 might be useful only in certain situations.

3. Temporally being invisible for 30 seconds, gotta recast. Some say this is the best option for reviving, but not really. Ivara with her sleeping bolts and her invisible bubble and turning your teammates invisible while at it are better options, for not failing Valkyr does a better job. But being invisible is outclassed by Ivara, by a lot. She can't move as fast as Loki, but she can manouver better than Loki and turn her allies invisible, way better than Loki's.

4. Radial Disarm, they will hit you with sticks and kill you, in crowded, awful tilesets, doesn't matter. OR more importantly. What are you gonna do against those who do not have ranged weapons, doesn't affect any of them. Spending a mod on it for 9 secs to kill each other. Why not just use Nyx, which last longer and has no need to waste a mod slot. Nyx outclasses his Radial Disarm.

There, this is why Loki isn't and endgame frame. Outclassed, and probably just one ability being uselful but being squishie against melee waves will still kill him. There are better options

Decoy isn't meant to tank damage. You should put it where the enemies can't hurt it, since it will still draw aggro.

Teleport has an augment that can make allies invincible. 'nuff said.

Moving fast is critical for popping Life Support without being away from the team for ages.

You will only get hit by prods if you are having a skill failure, especially so since Parkour 2.0 and the Bulletjump were added. Not only that, but taking away a Napalm or Scorch's gun is better than making him point it at someone else - both of those enemies can easily kill Tenno with splash damage at high level... and you have no guarantee that the enemies will stop attacking you altogether, so Loki wins again by making you able to dodge incoming damage more easily.
 

[VexMain]

8 minutes ago, m1a3s3k7 said:

???

 

I'm just going to go read one of the 5k "nerf the master race" threads...

If anything I think Loki needs more than a buff, probably a rework seeing how many other fames do what he does, best. I mean I used to use him for spy missions, but if  I can do better than Loki in farming spy missions for leveling up stuff too, though Draco is faster. There is no real time difference in running a high spy mission level with Ivara and Loki. There is probably one hack console where Loki is faster than Ivara, and there is one where Ivara is faster than Loki. That's it.

[VexMain]

1 minute ago, ChronoEclipse said:

Decoy isn't meant to tank damage. You should put it where the enemies can't hurt it, since it will still draw aggro.

Teleport has an augment that can make allies invincible. 'nuff said.

Moving fast is critical for popping Life Support without being away from the team for ages.

You will only get hit by prods if you are having a skill failure, especially so since Parkour 2.0 and the Bulletjump were added. Not only that, but taking away a Napalm or Scorch's gun is better than making him point it at someone else - both of those enemies can easily kill Tenno with splash damage at high level... and you have no guarantee that the enemies will stop attacking you altogether, so Loki wins again by making you able to dodge incoming damage more easily.
 

Like I said, situational. You can use it only on certain maps, but in certain areas, there isn't a room enough big for that.

Yeah, makes allies invincible, but gives up a slot. If you got the Radial mod as well, 2 mods gone, while I mentioned others who didn't need to give up anything to be better than him. Even with them.

I can move fast with Ivara too, ziplines here and there and I will be in there in no time, and we have Valkyr with who can also run and get pods without having to be too far away.

And yet with Ivara you can cloak your allies, make them fall asleep and proc everyone the damage bonus from stealth melee damage and proc the finishers. Loki can dodge damage more easily, Ivara can makes everyone in her team dodge damage more easily for less than 8 seconds to what Loki's invisiblity lasts. Actually, Ivara can make everyone a Loki and this is why Loki should get a rework.

[SquireAngel]

1 hour ago, SkollArt said:

 

Let's put it simple:

1. His 1 is useless in endgame cause of one shot, I could say Chroma does a better job or Mesa with her 2, so there are way better options for distractions than Loki's 1. Actually his 1 is useless.

2. Teleport is nice, but doesn't offer a lot of utility. You could trade places for reviving, but in small rooms doesn't make any difference. You could just use Valkyr to revive. So 2 might be useful only in certain situations.

3. Temporally being invisible for 30 seconds, gotta recast. Some say this is the best option for reviving, but not really. Ivara with her sleeping bolts and her invisible bubble and turning your teammates invisible while at it are better options, for not failing Valkyr does a better job. But being invisible is outclassed by Ivara, by a lot. She can't move as fast as Loki, but she can manouver better than Loki and turn her allies invisible, way better than Loki's.

4. Radial Disarm, they will hit you with sticks and kill you, in crowded, awful tilesets, doesn't matter. OR more importantly. What are you gonna do against those who do not have ranged weapons, doesn't affect any of them. Spending a mod on it for 9 secs to kill each other. Why not just use Nyx, which last longer and has no need to waste a mod slot. Nyx outclasses his Radial Disarm.

 

OK, let's pick this entire argument apart, shall we? 

1. OK, sure, they might not be the most useful thing, but when they are useful, they're ridiculously so. Example 1 is spy missions; swap tele. nuff said there. Example 2 is the LoR. In the final fight, Hek has crushing missiles that he'll launch that can wipe out multiple team mates at once. Instead, you can cast decoy and he'll try to stomp it, rather than firing his arsenal of rockets. This can apply when used in other scenarios. Enemies are FORCED to fire upon the decoy if it is closer to them than it is you. Sure it, might only last a few seconds, but in the period, you can easily vanish with invis. 

2. Just gunna point this out, but invis is 2, tele is 3. Moving on, I'll still reply to the proper arguments. You claim that 'only' 30 seconds of invis is bad, but let's compare your lover Ivara to Loki for a sec. A team mate goes down half way across the map. As Loki, I press 2, and BAM! I'm off in a flash (aided by his increased sprint speed, I might add). I can run, bullet jump, slide, and hop off of enemies as I arrive at my team mate in record time. Now for Ivara. Ivara sees a team mate go down, and she throws a bolt on top of her team mate, allowing another team mate to revive her, assuming she has a clear shot. If she doesn't, her own invis allows her to either walk or dodgeroll at her quickest, to her team mate. Either you've required all but 1 person to rev, or you crawl slowly towards the team mate. Loki can respond much faster in his invis, and lets not forget about the augment that allows ALL guns to be silenced, removing any way for the enemy from finding him. His speed allows him to move any way he pleases, where as Ivara is slow. I love Ivara myself, but our little lightning bolt of a god she is not.

3. Yup, tele is a utility ability, and I'll admit, the scenarios it's super helpful aren't as wide spread as the rest of his kit, but hey, it's still a nice ability. I can swap tele with anything, and either separate it from the pack, such as a bombard or a healer, or I can swap tele with an enemy half way across the map, putting me in the action. It doesn't have the versatility the rest of his kit has, but it's not a bad ability by any means. 

4. For one, removing all guns from all enemies is fantastic. Even if everything in a 5 planet radius is targeting you, you can either parkour out of there, go invis, or slaughter the whole lot, depending on which frame you're using. In the grineer galleon hallways, some of the narrowest points in tilesets, you STILL have enough room to jump off enemies to get away. There is no excuse, other than fudging up, to why you couldn't get away from all of the melee attacks. Augmented with irradiating, and bam, you have them slapping each other, making them that much easier to mop up. Nyx doesn't do better, as they can all still shoot you. Sure, the target each other lasts longer, but when it wears off, they simply target you again. Loki's disarm is PERMANENT. Now, Nyx is a great frame as well, but hey, we're talking about Loki here. 

 

10 minutes ago, SkollArt said:

Like I said, situational. You can use it only on certain maps, but in certain areas, there isn't a room enough big for that.

Yeah, makes allies invincible, but gives up a slot. If you got the Radial mod as well, 2 mods gone, while I mentioned others who didn't need to give up anything to be better than him. Even with them.

I can move fast with Ivara too, ziplines here and there and I will be in there in no time, and we have Valkyr with who can also run and get pods without having to be too far away.

And yet with Ivara you can cloak your allies, make them fall asleep and proc everyone the damage bonus from stealth melee damage and proc the finishers. Loki can dodge damage more easily, Ivara can makes everyone in her team dodge damage more easily for less than 8 seconds to what Loki's invisiblity lasts. Actually, Ivara can make everyone a Loki and this is why Loki should get a rework.

OK, so if you don't have enough room to jump around, how are you gunna have enough room to create ziplines? Also, you need to spend the time creating ziplines, in which time, you'll be bashed by sticks (I'm starting to see your own issues, not issues with loki :^|). 

I admit, safeguard tele isn't the best thing in the word, but hey, invincibility, meaning he can make people into valk, lol. 

With Ivara, sure, you can "make other people Loki", but for how long, and having everyone one slow down to cloak them kinda acts like a buzz kill, especially when some frames don't want that loss of aggro. 

Finally, The fact that kinda proves the invalidity of your argument, within your own argument. You've had to suggest no less than 3 frames to replace Loki's kit; Ivara, Nyx, and Valkyr. He isn't a great addition to the team? He's already taken up 3 slots that you seem to honor highly, and he does them well. He can rez, CC, and invis. There is no reason you've supplied that Loki isn't a good addition to any team, as well as a great Solo frame. 

[VexMain]

27 minutes ago, SquireAngel said:

OK, let's pick this entire argument apart, shall we? 

1. OK, sure, they might not be the most useful thing, but when they are useful, they're ridiculously so. Example 1 is spy missions; swap tele. nuff said there. Example 2 is the LoR. In the final fight, Hek has crushing missiles that he'll launch that can wipe out multiple team mates at once. Instead, you can cast decoy and he'll try to stomp it, rather than firing his arsenal of rockets. This can apply when used in other scenarios. Enemies are FORCED to fire upon the decoy if it is closer to them than it is you. Sure it, might only last a few seconds, but in the period, you can easily vanish with invis. 

2. Just gunna point this out, but invis is 2, tele is 3. Moving on, I'll still reply to the proper arguments. You claim that 'only' 30 seconds of invis is bad, but let's compare your lover Ivara to Loki for a sec. A team mate goes down half way across the map. As Loki, I press 2, and BAM! I'm off in a flash (aided by his increased sprint speed, I might add). I can run, bullet jump, slide, and hop off of enemies as I arrive at my team mate in record time. Now for Ivara. Ivara sees a team mate go down, and she throws a bolt on top of her team mate, allowing another team mate to revive her, assuming she has a clear shot. If she doesn't, her own invis allows her to either walk or dodgeroll at her quickest, to her team mate. Either you've required all but 1 person to rev, or you crawl slowly towards the team mate. Loki can respond much faster in his invis, and lets not forget about the augment that allows ALL guns to be silenced, removing any way for the enemy from finding him. His speed allows him to move any way he pleases, where as Ivara is slow. I love Ivara myself, but our little lightning bolt of a god she is not.

3. Yup, tele is a utility ability, and I'll admit, the scenarios it's super helpful aren't as wide spread as the rest of his kit, but hey, it's still a nice ability. I can swap tele with anything, and either separate it from the pack, such as a bombard or a healer, or I can swap tele with an enemy half way across the map, putting me in the action. It doesn't have the versatility the rest of his kit has, but it's not a bad ability by any means. 

4. For one, removing all guns from all enemies is fantastic. Even if everything in a 5 planet radius is targeting you, you can either parkour out of there, go invis, or slaughter the whole lot, depending on which frame you're using. In the grineer galleon hallways, some of the narrowest points in tilesets, you STILL have enough room to jump off enemies to get away. There is no excuse, other than fudging up, to why you couldn't get away from all of the melee attacks. Augmented with irradiating, and bam, you have them slapping each other, making them that much easier to mop up. Nyx doesn't do better, as they can all still shoot you. Sure, the target each other lasts longer, but when it wears off, they simply target you again. Loki's disarm is PERMANENT. Now, Nyx is a great frame as well, but hey, we're talking about Loki here. 

 

OK, so if you don't have enough room to jump around, how are you gunna have enough room to create ziplines? Also, you need to spend the time creating ziplines, in which time, you'll be bashed by sticks (I'm starting to see your own issues, not issues with loki :^|). 

I admit, safeguard tele isn't the best thing in the word, but hey, invincibility, meaning he can make people into valk, lol. 

With Ivara, sure, you can "make other people Loki", but for how long, and having everyone one slow down to cloak them kinda acts like a buzz kill, especially when some frames don't want that loss of aggro. 

Finally, The fact that kinda proves the invalidity of your argument, within your own argument. You've had to suggest no less than 3 frames to replace Loki's kit; Ivara, Nyx, and Valkyr. He isn't a great addition to the team? He's already taken up 3 slots that you seem to honor highly, and he does them well. He can rez, CC, and invis. There is no reason you've supplied that Loki isn't a good addition to any team, as well as a great Solo frame. 

Okay, let's pick arguments alright.

Spoiler

1. OK, sure, they might not be the most useful thing, but when they are useful, they're ridiculously so. Example 1 is spy missions; swap tele. nuff said there. Example 2 is the LoR. In the final fight, Hek has crushing missiles that he'll launch that can wipe out multiple team mates at once. Instead, you can cast decoy and he'll try to stomp it, rather than firing his arsenal of rockets. This can apply when used in other scenarios. Enemies are FORCED to fire upon the decoy if it is closer to them than it is you. Sure it, might only last a few seconds, but in the period, you can easily vanish with invis. 

So pretty much, all I need to do is cast invisibility with my team to avoid the rockets as Ivara, with my whole team.

Spoiler

2. Just gunna point this out, but invis is 2, tele is 3. Moving on, I'll still reply to the proper arguments. You claim that 'only' 30 seconds of invis is bad, but let's compare your lover Ivara to Loki for a sec. A team mate goes down half way across the map. As Loki, I press 2, and BAM! I'm off in a flash (aided by his increased sprint speed, I might add). I can run, bullet jump, slide, and hop off of enemies as I arrive at my team mate in record time. Now for Ivara. Ivara sees a team mate go down, and she throws a bolt on top of her team mate, allowing another team mate to revive her, assuming she has a clear shot. If she doesn't, her own invis allows her to either walk or dodgeroll at her quickest, to her team mate. Either you've required all but 1 person to rev, or you crawl slowly towards the team mate. Loki can respond much faster in his invis, and lets not forget about the augment that allows ALL guns to be silenced, removing any way for the enemy from finding him. His speed allows him to move any way he pleases, where as Ivara is slow. I love Ivara myself, but our little lightning bolt of a god she is not.

Well, you totally forgot that Ivara shouldn't be on the wrong unless she is killing someone with extreme resistence and huge health with a single attack. Ivara should most of the time be up in the sky using ziplines which allows her to sprint without losing invisibility. So she can either throw an invisibile bubble for a revive and let a teammate revive them or throw the invisible bubble and drop from the sky and aid their team, as a support Ivara, last for so long in that state without any issue, her mobility is just that. but in waves of AoE damage being in the sky is the best option for squishie frames. You can try that with Loki but most of the time I run against Eximus Scorch and and Moas with tons of waves, all I do is throw a sleep arrow and put their abilities to sleep as I revive or let my team revive them. So she is better for her support from the sky and Ivara can put them to sleep and reduce waves reaching her teammates, specially late game Eximus Articus Nullifiers, coming in about 3-4 together, trying to take down those bubbles is a nightmare. The reason why Ivara's invisiblity is better is cause of ziplines, she dodges nullifiers. I know, you don't have to be smart do dodge nullifiers bubbles oh, look, a nullifier was in the second floor or under floor or the other side of the wall, but those big oversized things got you. Too bad.

I dunno, it sounds like you aren't using the ziplines right. You are aware there is a way to throw ziplines on the ground? Right? You can sprint really fast and well, sprint where you would have to jump which is slower than sprinting. I once had a Loki keep switching places with me cause I kept leaving him behind. You just need to use her full kit correctly so she can run a lot during her invisibility.

Spoiler

3. Yup, tele is a utility ability, and I'll admit, the scenarios it's super helpful aren't as wide spread as the rest of his kit, but hey, it's still a nice ability. I can swap tele with anything, and either separate it from the pack, such as a bombard or a healer, or I can swap tele with an enemy half way across the map, putting me in the action. It doesn't have the versatility the rest of his kit has, but it's not a bad ability by any means. 

There are better abilities though. You could, but at late game like I said, bubbles, tons of Eximus everywhere that you have no idea who to pick. Funny thing. I did a survival with Ivara T3 Eximus survival while there was an Ivara killing them in other part I was in other area slowin them down by killing them. So I kept 1/2 of the mobs down without taking any damage. And by no means I have strength. I have about 100% power strenght or less. The rest goes for Durability, Efficiency and Range. Just armed with a Paris Prime, Sonicor and a Dagger. So I find it better to have a kit that allows me to kill endgame content on my own to reduce the damage to my team. My friend's went down, was in the other side of the map, no problem, just a zipline and I was there in no time.

Spoiler

4. For one, removing all guns from all enemies is fantastic. Even if everything in a 5 planet radius is targeting you, you can either parkour out of there, go invis, or slaughter the whole lot, depending on which frame you're using. In the grineer galleon hallways, some of the narrowest points in tilesets, you STILL have enough room to jump off enemies to get away. There is no excuse, other than fudging up, to why you couldn't get away from all of the melee attacks. Augmented with irradiating, and bam, you have them slapping each other, making them that much easier to mop up. Nyx doesn't do better, as they can all still shoot you. Sure, the target each other lasts longer, but when it wears off, they simply target you again. Loki's disarm is PERMANENT. Now, Nyx is a great frame as well, but hey, we're talking about Loki here. 

Yeah. I tried that, did a few T3 with Loki during missions like Interception. I kept reviving my team, to eventually we lost, we lost to sticks and we had guns and mind you, I had the augment. Next time I tried I switched over Nyx and won without any issue. Remember Chaos got buffed and now is a spammable ability with low energy cost, spamming and having kill each other is fantasic. So losing one mod slot for 9 seconds of radiation over Nyx ability to get them killed each other.

But lets also be real here, the reason why I use Nyx over Loki too is cause of Huras Kubrow, yeah, perm invisiblity with that Kubrow, more reliable than Loki's and is what I use on Ivara too, I can run and do many things, and is absolutely amazing with Ivara being in the sky, cause I can make a Huras Kubrow target nullifiers from my ziplines, if they are together, she can just dash and get multiple kills for me and since Ivara's invisible is applied to a Kubrow, this one can attack without being seen.

Ziplines are created with early game, not really as the game goes, Warframe is a tad repeative. In small rooms, that's easy, real perma invisibility with sleep bolts and a dagger. Killing for days without letting anyone walk out of there, the only issue would be someone dumb coming near you getting you killed by flying projectiles, but that happens with Loki too.

And like I said, Ivara can keep on killing without putting strength items, she destroys endgame with any dagger and her sleep quiver. If a nullifier comes near you, arrow the buble or sleep bolt on it and the Kubrow will take care of them instantly.

And like I said, as looking for guides in for LoR they suggest bringing Nyx over Loki, cause her CC is more useful than Lokis.

And for how long? I haven't maxed my Primed Contuinity and still need to max other games. I can run without turning off invisibiliy for... forever, energy I don't really run low on that one either, so as long as the game lasts. Remember you can use Ivara's navigator to guide your invisible bubble. Doesn't matter where they are, she can make them invisible. So far my invisible bubble lasts over 22 seconds. Loki's around 30 seconds.

But, in Sorties Defense missions, I can keep the target invisible the whole game. So that's actually way better than any other frame for that sort of mission.

[SquireAngel]

@SkollArt....I can't stop laughing at your team being dumb enough to be killed by RD'd enemies. Like, OH NO! BATONS! WHAT'RE WE GUNNA DO?! 

On the serious side, you never really refuted my claims, simply stated what Ivara can do. I wasn't bashing on Ivara, but you say that Loki isn't an endgame frame, when I can run Loki in any moderately skilled group, and turn out a very good run. You're missing the entire point, and just blabbering on about how you suck balls with Loki. That doesn't make Loki a bad frame, it just means you're not good with him. I defended Loki with my last argument, and you defended Nyx and Ivara in your argument, which is dumb. The point has nothing to do with Nyx or Ivara, it's about Loki. You make a vague stab at dismissing him because two frames can do a part of his kit, but requiring two frames to replace 1 is counter productive. You're entire claim that Nyx is superior in CC to Loki is entirely moot, as it's entirely opinion based. Performance wise, people prefer Radial Disarm quite a bit more, as they actually recognize they can just jump away and shoot them =| Also, the clustering up of enemies makes it PAINFULLY easy to take out crowds off them with punch through weapons or explosives, like Penta, Quanta, Sonicor, Staticor, Tonkor; I could go on, but yeah. 

In the end, your argument simply reveals one fact; you don't Loki well.

[VexMain]

3 hours ago, SquireAngel said:

@SkollArt....I can't stop laughing at your team being dumb enough to be killed by RD'd enemies. Like, OH NO! BATONS! WHAT'RE WE GUNNA DO?! 

On the serious side, you never really refuted my claims, simply stated what Ivara can do. I wasn't bashing on Ivara, but you say that Loki isn't an endgame frame, when I can run Loki in any moderately skilled group, and turn out a very good run. You're missing the entire point, and just blabbering on about how you suck balls with Loki. That doesn't make Loki a bad frame, it just means you're not good with him. I defended Loki with my last argument, and you defended Nyx and Ivara in your argument, which is dumb. The point has nothing to do with Nyx or Ivara, it's about Loki. You make a vague stab at dismissing him because two frames can do a part of his kit, but requiring two frames to replace 1 is counter productive. You're entire claim that Nyx is superior in CC to Loki is entirely moot, as it's entirely opinion based. Performance wise, people prefer Radial Disarm quite a bit more, as they actually recognize they can just jump away and shoot them =| Also, the clustering up of enemies makes it PAINFULLY easy to take out crowds off them with punch through weapons or explosives, like Penta, Quanta, Sonicor, Staticor, Tonkor; I could go on, but yeah. 

In the end, your argument simply reveals one fact; you don't Loki well.

Well, if you read what I said you would of know what I said. Let me sum it up. 

1. Loki is too squishie, Ivara to the rescue to all those Lokis in random pub games. 

2. I play Loki for Spy missions mostly or Ivara. Same speed running both. I did said I played Loki in T3 Sorties, didn't work. Did I said I was dying? Nope. I was using radial disarm with the augment, the rest of the team died and I kept reviving them while I didn't. Actually supporting with either Nyx or Ivara seems to be more reliable with random teams than with Loki. Next time I solo'd it and found out it was easier to use Nova than Loki, it was interception Sortie T3 with augmented resistence, btw. 

Well, it is like I said, most people prefer Nyx over Loki in LoR. Thus she is truly the best at CCing, teams I have been with died less with Nyx than with Loki under the same situations. T3 Sorties. 

It is quite easy to win interception, nothing to worry about, but I did some open Sorties as I came back, almost 40 days ago and players seem to not know how to use Loki's skills unlike Nyx and Ivara, Ivara's support seems to be better for any, while Loki is mostly situational. I guess they need to play Loki to know what to do, while Ivara and Nyx, they don't.

[SquireAngel]

48 minutes ago, SkollArt said:

Well, if you read what I said you would of know what I said. Let me sum it up. 

1. Loki is too squishie, Ivara to the rescue to all those Lokis in random pub games. 

2. I play Loki for Spy missions mostly or Ivara. Same speed running both. I did said I played Loki in T3 Sorties, didn't work. Did I said I was dying? Nope. I was using radial disarm with the augment, the rest of the team died and I kept reviving them while I didn't. Actually supporting with either Nyx or Ivara seems to be more reliable with random teams than with Loki. Next time I solo'd it and found out it was easier to use Nova than Loki, it was interception Sortie T3 with augmented resistence, btw. 

Well, it is like I said, most people prefer Nyx over Loki in LoR. Thus she is truly the best at CCing, teams I have been with died less with Nyx than with Loki under the same situations. T3 Sorties. 

It is quite easy to win interception, nothing to worry about, but I did some open Sorties as I came back, almost 40 days ago and players seem to not know how to use Loki's skills unlike Nyx and Ivara, Ivara's support seems to be better for any, while Loki is mostly situational. I guess they need to play Loki to know what to do, while Ivara and Nyx, they don't.

I can solo 80+ minutres in a T4S, T3 Sorties, and just about anything else under the Wf sun with Loki. I'll say it once again, just because you suck with him, doesn't mean he's not good. You state that Nyx is better CC, but that's based on the few guides you've watched. I've run LoR nightmare in 25 minutes with a Loki. He makes an excellent bomb carrier with his large energy pool, and his CC is decent, although Mirage does a better job locking down literally everything...I personally have NEVER seen Nyx recommended or asked for in LoR, and I've run it several dozens of times. Also, the fact that your Team keeps dying implies they're either morons, like you, or that they're not modded properly for the missions either. Just because they can't deal with a higher tier mission doesn't make Loki bad. As for Nova making things easier in an interception, no duh. She's a nuke frame with powerful CC and damage amp abilities. 

As for Loki being too squishy, have you LOOKED at Ivara's stats? She's almost just as squishy having a tiny bit more shields. 

[KutieKat]

Loki is absolutely an endgame frame. You can solo any content with him, and his 4 skill scales to unlimited levels. If you pair it with his augment, irradiating disarm, the enemies will just be fighting themselves for the whole time.

Part of his power comes from the fact that you don't have to mod him for power strength at all. So you just concentrate on efficiency, duration, and range. Modded properly, you will be invisible the whole duration of any game while disarming half the map for 25 energy. Just jump around spamming 4 while invisible and do what you want. If you play with a vauban (an underrated frame) in your team, the match becomes just ridiculously easy. Either the Vauban's 3 or 4 skill combined with Loki's 4 skill will essentially guarantee no one will get shot or killed in the match. The disarmed enemies are either fighting themselves, or are running towards the party and being sucked up in vortexes or being suspended in the air by bastille.
 

Properly modded, Loki's ability to stay invisible the whole match, permanently disarm as well as temporarily irradiate enemies, makes him one of the best team players you can ask for in any endless content.

Edited February 24, 2016 by KutieKat

[KutieKat]

 

9 hours ago, SkollArt said:

Nope. Seriously. Loki is not a good endgame frame. Doesn't offer anything better than others can, and specially being extremely squishie and the perma invisible lie everyone tells. I thought perma invisibility meant that I didn't have to cast 3 every 30 seconds. So I gotta time my 3 every 30 seconds, and sometimes my laptop lags and bang, lagging when I need to cast 3 again, down on the floor. While being invisible, Loki is still squishie and any flying projectile will take him down, or auras if her disarms them. The best I can do is Ivara and put them to sleep for 20 seconds. It is not as big as Loki, but there is no energy issues by putting asleep everyone in a large room which this opens up finishers for the whole group.

Loki can probably use a finisher or two, but the radius of alerting enemies is like at least 8 meters so everyon would get alerted and a finisher won't be possible. Ivara just put everyone into sleep mode in a room and finish everyone. So I find Ivara more useful than Loki at being invisible. Nyx is being chosen over Loki for LoR right now, due her CC will help to kill them each other, without wasting a warframe slot. Like Loki needs to do and only lasts 9 seconds, Nyx can keep on casting it and doesn't suffer from a lot of energy drain.

So yeah. Loki is more for a solo run frame for mostly midgame. not really endgame.

Let's put it simple:

1. His 1 is useless in endgame cause of one shot, I could say Chroma does a better job or Mesa with her 2, so there are way better options for distractions than Loki's 1. Actually his 1 is useless.

2. Teleport is nice, but doesn't offer a lot of utility. You could trade places for reviving, but in small rooms doesn't make any difference. You could just use Valkyr to revive. So 2 might be useful only in certain situations.

3. Temporally being invisible for 30 seconds, gotta recast. Some say this is the best option for reviving, but not really. Ivara with her sleeping bolts and her invisible bubble and turning your teammates invisible while at it are better options, for not failing Valkyr does a better job. But being invisible is outclassed by Ivara, by a lot. She can't move as fast as Loki, but she can manouver better than Loki and turn her allies invisible, way better than Loki's.

4. Radial Disarm, they will hit you with sticks and kill you, in crowded, awful tilesets, doesn't matter. OR more importantly. What are you gonna do against those who do not have ranged weapons, doesn't affect any of them. Spending a mod on it for 9 secs to kill each other. Why not just use Nyx, which last longer and has no need to waste a mod slot. Nyx outclasses his Radial Disarm.

There, this is why Loki isn't and endgame frame. Outclassed, and probably just one ability being uselful but being squishie against melee waves will still kill him. There are better options

OP, you have quite a few opinions now to get your idea of whether or not Loki is an endgame frame. You have one very vocal guy who has his belief on Loki not being endgame for whatever reason. His experiences hardly reflect the vast pool of knowledge and experience that other people have replied to your question in this thread. 

1. His Decoy is very useful when you put it somewhere enemies can't get to. Disarm the enemies, put it somewhere where they can't get to using melee. 

2. His switch teleport has many other functions. You can use decoy along with switch teleport to traverse large areas on maps insanely fast of if you have to get to something quickly. Useful for excavation missions on Triton, Neptune when you want to quickly get across the map to snag a power core and return quickly.

3. His invisibility, in my opinion is the best invisibility skill hands down compared to any other frame. When modded properly, you will never run out of invisibility and have zero downtime. Loki doesn't have to worry about making allies invisible on a team because he just disarms and irradiates all the enemies who might of shoot said allies. Invisible allies can still get shot by stray weapons. Loki just stays invisible, stays away from visible allies, and presses 4 and the whole team benefits.

4. Radial Disarm: An easy way not to get hit by sticks in a party, use other methods of CC, like Vauban's 3 and 4 skill. It is almost impossible to get hit by melee in a party with a well modded loki and vauban. Other frames to use with Loki: Nova and her m prime ability, Mirage and her prism blind, any frame with a sonicor that ragdolls said enemies. And one other thing, even enemies that start out with melee weapons are effected by the irradiating disarm augment.

 

 

[VexMain]

On 17/2/2016 at 9:52 AM, ThorienKELL said:

Plse. Stop. 

Nope. Seriously. Loki is not a good endgame frame. Doesn't offer anything better than others can, and specially being extremely squishie and the perma invisible lie everyone tells. I thought perma invisibility meant that I didn't have to cast 3 every 30 seconds. So I gotta time my 3 every 30 seconds, and sometimes my laptop lags and bang, lagging when I need to cast 3 again, down on the floor. While being invisible, Loki is still squishie and any flying projectile will take him down, or auras if her disarms them. The best I can do is Ivara and put them to sleep for 20 seconds. It is not as big as Loki, but there is no energy issues by putting asleep everyone in a large room which this opens up finishers for the whole group.

Loki can probably use a finisher or two, but the radius of alerting enemies is like at least 8 meters so everyon would get alerted and a finisher won't be possible. Ivara just put everyone into sleep mode in a room and finish everyone. So I find Ivara more useful than Loki at being invisible. Nyx is being chosen over Loki for LoR right now, due her CC will help to kill them each other, without wasting a warframe slot. Like Loki needs to do and only lasts 9 seconds, Nyx can keep on casting it and doesn't suffer from a lot of energy drain.

So yeah. Loki is more for a solo run frame for mostly midgame. not really endgame.

Let's put it simple:

1. His 1 is useless in endgame cause of one shot, I could say Chroma does a better job or Mesa with her 2, so there are way better options for distractions than Loki's 1. Actually his 1 is useless.

2. Teleport is nice, but doesn't offer a lot of utility. You could trade places for reviving, but in small rooms doesn't make any difference. You could just use Valkyr to revive. So 2 might be useful only in certain situations.

3. Temporally being invisible for 30 seconds, gotta recast. Some say this is the best option for reviving, but not really. Ivara with her sleeping bolts and her invisible bubble and turning your teammates invisible while at it are better options, for not failing Valkyr does a better job. But being invisible is outclassed by Ivara, by a lot. She can't move as fast as Loki, but she can manouver better than Loki and turn her allies invisible, way better than Loki's.

4. Radial Disarm, they will hit you with sticks and kill you, in crowded, awful tilesets, doesn't matter. OR more importantly. What are you gonna do against those who do not have ranged weapons, doesn't affect any of them. Spending a mod on it for 9 secs to kill each other. Why not just use Nyx, which last longer and has no need to waste a mod slot. Nyx outclasses his Radial Disarm.

There, this is why Loki isn't and endgame frame. Outclassed, and probably just one ability being uselful but being squishie against melee waves will still kill him. There are better options

Edited February 23, 2016 by SkollArt
Making something clear.