Tonkor and self damage

[(XBOX) Dr Desflurane]

Isn't it a little ridiculous that a weapon that creates so much damage and mayhem does nothing (practically) to the operator when detonated at too close of range?  A little boost in the air and paltry damage while the enemy takes tens of thousands of damage at the same range.  Either give other explosive weapons the same courtesy or change the tonkor to inflict self damage.  I have no idea what the usage stats are for kulstar, penta and the like but I imagine the dwarf tonkor numbers.  How many of these players feel that they have no other choice but to go with the tonkor when you put in place the choice of possibly blowing yourself up or not.  I love the high damage and risk/reward of these weapons, I would like to see diversity and a level playing field. 

[(PSN) Asdeft]

I have been wondering why this is the case for a while too; they should definitely extend this feature to ALL explosive weaponry and be all inclusive to the explosive genre. 

[Rawbeard]

why should it harm the operator? he/she is safe in the orbiter...

[Kungpaobeef]

I definitely agree with this concept and I believe that DE should at least implement a mod that reduces self damage from weapons, if not make it a default setting off such weapons. There was a time when I actually saw people using weapons like the ogris and the penta; now I just see scrubs running around with a tonkor, shooting it at their feet and not taking so much as 50 damage from the blast that could kill all the enemies around them. 

5 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

why should it harm the operator? he/she is safe in the orbiter...

No. (And don't you think it'd kind of be mental harm? Ya know, you're having a nice dream, chopping up bodies, when all of a sudden, your aim with the ogris goes awry and you find your frame....dead?)

[-Kryptyk-]

It doubles as a mobility enhancement though... have you not tried flinging yourself through the air with it???? IT'S SO MUCH FUN D: (not that I'm defending the weapon... I actually prefer my secura penta over the tonkor.  The tonkor just doesn't feel like an explosive weapon, and just cheeses through missions.)

[Misgenesis]

Self damage is a relic from when explosive weapons used rifle ammo. Theres no need for it anymore.

 

[(XBOX) Dr Desflurane]

16 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

Self damage is a relic from when explosive weapons used rifle ammo. Theres no need for it anymore.

 

So why not remove/decrease it with the other explosive weapons?

[DeadlyBard676]

4 minutes ago, (XB1) Dr Desflurane said:

So why not remove/decrease it with the other explosive weapons?

Because the Tonkor was originally created to allow Rocket Jumping. having an explosive weapon that allows you to Rocket Jump doing massive self damage to the user is impractical. the rest of the explosive weapons are normal explosives.

[Kungpaobeef]

18 minutes ago, KiryuKusakabe said:

Because the Tonkor was originally created to allow Rocket Jumping. having an explosive weapon that allows you to Rocket Jump doing massive self damage to the user is impractical. the rest of the explosive weapons are normal explosives.

But then, you gotta remember that the tonkor both deals almost zero damage to the user and the fact that it deals insane amounts of damage. Which kind of makes the other explosive and launcher type weapons obsolete. I'd rather not have everyone using the same over used weapon and have people ignore the weapons that used to be super op but self damage wgriuneshkeindkth.

[(XBOX) Dr Desflurane]

59 minutes ago, KiryuKusakabe said:

Because the Tonkor was originally created to allow Rocket Jumping. 

Edited February 23, 2016 by (XB1) Dr Desflurane
New forum bugs. I still cannot put my own response in the body of the reply. Rocket jump is pre parkour 2.0, it is obsolete.

[YasaiTsume]

Please make self damage higher for Tonkor.

With Bullet Jump, grenade jump is no longer an excuse.

I also wish to see Tonkor spammers suicide when they haphazardly use it.

[TheLexiConArtist]

Self damage is part of the explosive ordnance fantasy.

If I don't risk blowing myself up, I'm not using a rocket launcher.

 

That said, self-damage ramping up fully with mods on all other-such weapons, even though it starts at a smaller base, gets to the point of instant self-death far too quickly. And you can crit yourself. On the Ogris' 5% chance. That's a bit shoddy.

 

Improve personal resistance against self-damage from explosives (procs, damage ramp) but keep it relevant. Don't make lying down on a bed of your own Penta grenades an ignorable mistake.

[AdunSaveMe]

It was originally designed to boost players up with explosions. Having self damage kinda defeated that purpose when it instakilled you instead.

Self damage is meaningless. You seem to be under the impression it's powerful because it doesn't harm the player, which isn't the case. It's powerful because it does a lot of damage, and it would still be just as widely used if it hurt players with their own explosions.

[(PSN) FriendSharkey]

Self damage on explosive weapons needs to be removed in general. Nerfing the Tonkor would be a mistake, that weapon is truly fun, unpredictable, and rewarding all at once. I usually find myself screaming in frustration as a grenade goes bouncing harmlessly between the legs of an enemy as they peel off my shields with sustained bursts of hitscan.  It's even funnier when split chamber sends two grenades flying and they pass harmlessly to the sides of said enemy still eating now into my health pool. 

Ohhh, Tonkor, you scamp. So beautiful, but blind as a bat.

 

And then it hits something and you see bodies flying everywhere. This game is awesome!!! No, the other explosive weapons need to be buffed to no self damage and adjusted accordingly. I use my Penta occasionally since I geared it for spy missions with a hush mod. So silent grenades being banked shot around corners is a real treat for the Corporus. I'd like to see more explosive/grenade trick mods introduced, like say a sleep grenade, or mod that allows Ogris players pull an Ivara sans the Ivara where they can guide their missiles into a pile of enemies. 

 

 

[ClinkzEastwood]

1 hour ago, (PS4) FriendSharkey said:

Self damage on explosive weapons needs to be removed in general. Nerfing the Tonkor would be a mistake, that weapon is truly fun, unpredictable, and rewarding all at once. I usually find myself screaming in frustration as a grenade goes bouncing harmlessly between the legs of an enemy as they peel off my shields with sustained bursts of hitscan.  It's even funnier when split chamber sends two grenades flying and they pass harmlessly to the sides of said enemy still eating now into my health pool. 

Ohhh, Tonkor, you scamp. So beautiful, but blind as a bat.

 

And then it hits something and you see bodies flying everywhere. This game is awesome!!! No, the other explosive weapons need to be buffed to no self damage and adjusted accordingly. I use my Penta occasionally since I geared it for spy missions with a hush mod. So silent grenades being banked shot around corners is a real treat for the Corporus. I'd like to see more explosive/grenade trick mods introduced, like say a sleep grenade, or mod that allows Ogris players pull an Ivara sans the Ivara where they can guide their missiles into a pile of enemies. 

 

 

Tfw Tonkor is the better shotgun than 60% of the shotguns in game.

Edited February 23, 2016 by ClinkzEastwood

[TheLexiConArtist]

5 hours ago, (PS4) FriendSharkey said:

Self damage on explosive weapons needs to be removed in general. Nerfing the Tonkor would be a mistake, that weapon is truly fun, unpredictable, and rewarding all at once.

No, the Tonkor should be balanced down from where it is now because it does over ten times the damage of its counterparts while having effectively zero comparitive risk.

Who needs bullets when you can just hold a grenade in your teeth like a romantic's rose and kiss the nearest Heavy Gunner to instantly annihilate them while all you get is a bit of debris bouncing off your shields?

 

There's a middle ground between no selfdamage and suicidal selfdamage. That's where all explosive weapons need to stand. Don't kill yourself if you get so much as grazed by the edge of your blast radius, but feel like you made a mistake if you're at the epicentre.

The whole 'lol rocket jumping' excuse falls flat when you realise that explosive-propelled jumping as a mechanic elsewhere still has risk/reward most of the time. Look what's on the first page of Google results!

Amazing.

[bubbabenali]

4 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Tfw Tonkor is the better shotgun than 60% of the shotguns in game.

Thats no problem, most of the shotguns are better snipers than all the snipers to compensate this.

[Kurnuttaja]

I am heavily against adding self-damage to it for one reason: In warframe it is always overkill and most explosive weapons one-shot the user when modded enough. Tonkor is currently the only explosive weapon I would consider usable because of this.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Kurnuttaja

[PsychoDraugr]

14 hours ago, Kungpaobeef said:

I definitely agree with this concept and I believe that DE should at least implement a mod that reduces self damage from weapons, if not make it a default setting off such weapons. There was a time when I actually saw people using weapons like the ogris and the penta; now I just see scrubs running around with a tonkor, shooting it at their feet and not taking so much as 50 damage from the blast that could kill all the enemies around them. 

No. (And don't you think it'd kind of be mental harm? Ya know, you're having a nice dream, chopping up bodies, when all of a sudden, your aim with the ogris goes awry and you find your frame....dead?)

i'm one of those "scrubs" that just likes to actually have "fun" in a game, because isn't that what a game is for? you have the ogris, the penta, the klustrar, all of them can kill you and all of them have dif features, then why would you like to nerf something that takes so long to reload and nothing to empty the magazine besides not having an actual crossair, the tonkor is hard enough to use and you want us to get killed after spending half mission reloading despite having a reload mod? hell nah, there's things that shouldn't be touched because they're good as they are

[(PSN)Seventh89]

Just tone down the self-damage of other explosive weapons. The end. This isn't even a discussion, you just want to see people die because you don't like it that this weapon doesn't kill them.

[(XBOX) Dr Desflurane]

1 hour ago, PsychoDraugr said:

i'm one of those "scrubs" that just likes to actually have "fun" in a game, because isn't that what a game is for? you have the ogris, the penta, the klustrar, all of them can kill you and all of them have dif features, then why would you like to nerf something that takes so long to reload and nothing to empty the magazine besides not having an actual crossair, the tonkor is hard enough to use and you want us to get killed after spending half mission reloading despite having a reload mod? hell nah, there's things that shouldn't be touched because they're good as they are

The other explosive weapons are all fun to use, I would just like an even playing field.  Either add more self damage to the tonkor or decrease it on the others.  I rarely seen people playing the ogris, kulstar or penta but I sure as hell see tonkors every day.  The others are good, fun to use & have varied utility but I would say you are in the minority since it sounds as if you regularly run missions with the lot of them.  I would say that the explosive weapons ARE broken and in need of some balancing.  You cannot say otherwise when 95% of the time someone is running an explosive weapon it is a tonkor.  Boring.

Edited February 23, 2016 by (XB1) Dr Desflurane
Typos

[(XBOX) Dr Desflurane]

1 hour ago, (PS4) Seventh89 said:

you just want to see people die because you don't like it that this weapon doesn't kill them.

Yeah, that's it.  Busted.

[Ikusias]

Simply put the tonkor is overpowered by a bad combination of very damn high damage and no self damage, hek it even comes with a nifty aiming aid in the form of a on screen flight pattern!

It's tipical of joke weapons: it's fun because it launches players in the air without killing them! and became the worst troll weapon in the game, then they made that effect only personal, but because it's funny the player shooting a grenade at its feet shouldnt be maimed by the explosion right?

Instead all the other launcher/explosive weapons headshot you automatically even if you are at the extreme margin of theyr aoe, or their grenades bouce BACK better than boomerangs.

Penta and Secura penta should be "safe" weapons right? You press the detonator from a safe distance right?, pity that that grenade that flew back from the other side of the map thinks otherwise, or that any enemy has a perfect chance of kicking or headbutting back your projectiles right in your face (even moas are excellent soccer players!)

Nullifier bubbles and ice eximus igloos also have better elasticity that a jumping mat 100% grenades returned to the sender!

(Was trying being sarcastic - quite salty due to the many anomalies in grenade bounching that regularly result in a frame downed and bleeding out while the damn tonkor continues unneutered)

[hawttdawgg]

Most explosive weaponry fills a specific niche in the Tenno arsenal.

The Penta fills a defensive and chokepointing role, Kulstar fills an area destruction role, Angstrum is similar to the Kulstar with slightly different mechanics, Torid has sustained denial, etc. Each one does its job well, even though Torid is more of the edge of what might be considered explosive.

Even the Hikou and Hikou Prime can be made extremely explosive. Try out high fire rate mods with max multishot and then concealed explosives, huge radius and definite self damage. 

Tonkor, however, fills all of them. It has damage covered to an insane scale, easily 1 shotting level 80+ heavy gunners and even bombards with armor in the void. It has defense covered, not to the precision detonation of the Penta or sustained clouds of Torid, but just spamming will result in anything not directly impacting an enemy becoming a grounded time bomb. Blast radius is covered to say the least. It even has an arguably faster fire rate in application than the Penta or related weapons since its fire and forget, no need to care about detonating that shot at the right time. And, the ace of the Tonkor, you wont kill yourself, almost no self damage.

Either dial Tonkor stats back in some way, or bring up other weapons to fill their roles better than Tonkor can. I wouldn't suggest an on paper nerf, like a direct damage reduction, but a utility nerf. Increased self damage is one path, or possibly a reduced effect of missed shots. Any TF2 player knows the loch n load, a powerful grenade launcher with 2 shots and a slow reload, scoring massive crits that caused outrage. The drawback over other explosives is that missed shots fizzle upon contact with any surface. Making the Tonkor not have effective missed shots would punish spraying pills everywhere, cause the Penta and others to keep their role, and keep its brutal role as being the hardest hitting truck in game.

 

Tl;dr: Keep the thing hitting like a truck, but punish spraying by making missed shots do nothing.

Edited February 23, 2016 by hawttdawgg

[(PSN)ShiroPhyla]

On 2/23/2016 at 11:56 PM, KiryuKusakabe said:

Because the Tonkor was originally created to allow Rocket Jumping. having an explosive weapon that allows you to Rocket Jump doing massive self damage to the user is impractical. the rest of the explosive weapons are normal explosives.

Bullet jumping exists, so did air melee to fling youraelf higher. Tonkor is dumb weapon for durps